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I heard the first report broadcast about the weapon found at the Book Depository while I was undergoing AIT training at Fort Sill, OK in 1963. The report stated that the weapon identified was a Mauser, supposedly by an “expert.” Later, it was changed to a Manlicher Carcano. I found out recently that two weapons were found at the Book Depository. The first one was an Argentinean Mauser (7.65mm), later the weapon was identified as an Italian Manlicher Carcano (6.5mm).

For the conspirators to pin the assassination on Oswald’s rifle required that some of the projectiles fired at JFK had to be Carcano projectiles. Since the Carcano was such a lousy weapon and inaccurate as well, they must have used other more accurate rifles to do this. The Argentinean Mauser is certainly more accurate than the Carcano. In order to have projectiles from the Carcano fired at JFK from other weapons, they had to use sabots. First the Carcano is fired into a firing well, then the projectiles (with the Carcano markings) are placed in a sabot (a sleeve used to make up the difference between the Carcano 6.5mm, and the Mauser 7.65mm, approximately 1.15mm difference or .575mm on each side). Then the sabot with Carcano projectile are placed into the 7.65mm Mauser casing. The Carcano projectile never touches the inner walls of the barrel, and the Carcano markings remain in tact. The sabot separates from the projectile once it exits the barrel. This method of planting the crime on a smaller caliber gun has been used by the French mob as well as by “black ops” personnel.

Unfortunately for the conspirators, there were no Carcano projectiles found in JFK or Governor Connelly. They planted one of the pristine projectiles taken from the firing well on Connelly’s cot at Parkland. They should have previously fired some into the carcass of a dead animal to simulate the damage caused when it hit bone. Hindsight is 20/20, and they never planned for this contingency.

Now, Files states that he used a Remington Fireball 222. This would be an excellent weapon for this type of operation: “One shot, one kill.” The gun (with a scope) would be more than sufficient at that close range, plus it would be easily stored and hidden. The use of frangible projectiles would hopefully not leave any trace, however some Carcano projectiles would still have to be fired at the target, any others could be frangible.

I don’t know why an Italian Manlicher Carcano was planted on Oswald. Perhaps it was because it was so cheap, and Oswald was supposedly so poor. Perhaps it was because it was readily available on the open market. Personally I would have planted a Swedish Mauser (6.5x55mm). This would have been a more accurate weapon and could easily be used and left at the scene. If triangular fire was used, the other scope weapons using sabots could be the Russian or Finnish Mosin Nagant (7.62mm), German Mauser K98 (7.9mm), Swiss Schmidt-Rubin (7.5mm), or even the Austrian Steyr-Manlicher (8x56mm).

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I would have to disagree with most of the above.

In my experience the sabot is worthless as it is not accurate out of any rifle because it doesn't get the advantage of the lands and grooves aka rifleing which makes it a unstable projectile. That is the reason a shotgun with rifling is more accurate shooting rifled slugs then is a smooth bore with standard slugs.

As far as Files and the .222 fireball and a shot from the knoll with a scope, again do you realize how hard this shot is useing a scope? One your FOV is VERY small,l eading/or trying to pan a shot with poor FOV being small on a moving target makes it it very difficult,and to say he had seen his shot hit is laughable as any experienced shooter will tell you once you fire the round you will loose your LOS IMMEDIATELY.

A experienced shooter would use open sights for this shot IMHO as it would be easier to pan and lead with a open FOV at such close range.

I have shot under this same type of conditions while training under stress fire on a moving target moving across, away and towards. With a scope its VERY difficult at close range as one will loose his LOS with different movements of the target because the FOV is so small,with open sights this is much easier but still difficult.

With greater distance and a elevated position one must have alot of range time and training to shoot from a elevated position on a moving taget like the 6th floor, scope adjustments, pan, lead etc is something that takes skill and ALOT of practice. This is why Gunny Hathcock and fellow Marine Snipers could not duplicate what the WC said the shooter(Oswald) did in that amount of time, and he wasn't using a Carcano, probably the M40A1.

Files claims that he actually had seen his round hit the president in the temple, again impossible as the recoil from the fireball would loose his LOS let alone his short FOV.

One Shot One Kill is not a motto I would use for the assassination, more like Ambush.

The Carcano nor any other rifles could have made the shots from the 6th floor like the WC said they did. Ask fomer Marine Sniper Craig Roberts about this and ask him what Gunny Hathcock's results were after trying to duplicate the shots. Now saying that a unstable (Sabot) round could have made those shots is not even a issue as its impossible.

Craig Roberts also tried to dulplicate this task and had no succes like the WC said Oswald did, he tried it with the Carcano and his Rem 700 in .308

IMHO the Carcano was used to plant the evidence, were shots fired from the 6th floor? I would say yes as there is a lot of witness testimony to that. To score hits on a moving target that is moving away from the shooter is probably the most difficult shot to make, this might explain why the Gov was hit as the shooter didn't know how to pan/lead on a target moving away which ended up with shots over the president.

If one believes Ed Hoffman and what he saw that day he said the the weapon was taken apart and then hidden.

As far as Black Ops using a Sabot round,maybe at close range on a non moving target,but from the shooters I know and have shot with (Marine Snipers) (Army Snipers) they would tell you other wise

If you do a search on a thread I started Ballistics/Marksmanship 101 you might want to read that as it will give you a better understanding.

These are just my opinions from my experience behind a rifle.

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As for that pristine bullet, it was actually found on the floor.

In 1967, a New York Times article reported on an interview with O.P. Wright, chief of security at Parkland Hospital. Mr. Wright recounted that a bullet “had dislodged after a stretcher had been moved and it was lying on the floor.”

“Mr. Wright said that for more than half an hour Secret Service men ‘didn't seem interested in coming in and looking at the bullet in the position it was in’ . . . His efforts to get a Federal agent to take the bullet finally led to a matter-of-fact acceptance without questioning or additional investigation, Mr. Wright said.”

The “official” story alleges that President Kennedy was struck by two bullets, one that “disintegrated” after causing the fatal head wound and the other allegedly passing through his throat and causing Governor Connally’s wounds in the chest and wrist (the magic bullet). The bullet that the “Secret Service” was trying to ignore didn’t officially exist, but maybe this bullet was to become the “magic bullet.”

If this bullet had actually become “dislodged,” Mr. Wright’s unwanted help was interfering with plans for a cover-up. If Mr. Wright was mistaken and it hadn’t become “dislodged,” then it was there to factor into the fabricated story of how Kennedy’s wounds were caused. Either way, it was undoubtedly very important that “Secret Service” agents ignore the security chief’s attempts to call their attention to the bullet on the floor.

Twenty-six days after Kennedy was assassinated, a Washington Post article headlined “Kennedy Autopsy Report: Final Bullet Was Lethal” said, “Both bullets that struck the President were tied by ballistics tests to the rifle found in that building where Lee Harvey Oswald worked,” and one of the bullets was “found deep in his shoulder,” but “the one bullet that struck Governor Connally, however, could not be similarly traced to any rifle because it fragmented.”

In this scenario, the “Secret Service” would have to be ignoring the bullet that struck Kennedy in the head, which has since officially “disintegrated.”

The “magic bullet,” which the new story alleges passed through Kennedy’s throat and wounded Governor Connally, is officially the only bullet in evidence, and it was “officially” found on a stretcher, but the “Secret Service” was the source of that official information.

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As for that pristine bullet, it was actually found on the floor.

In 1967, a New York Times article reported on an interview with O.P. Wright, chief of security at Parkland Hospital. Mr. Wright recounted that a bullet “had dislodged after a stretcher had been moved and it was lying on the floor.”

“Mr. Wright said that for more than half an hour Secret Service men ‘didn't seem interested in coming in and looking at the bullet in the position it was in’ . . . His efforts to get a Federal agent to take the bullet finally led to a matter-of-fact acceptance without questioning or additional investigation, Mr. Wright said.”

The “official” story alleges that President Kennedy was struck by two bullets, one that “disintegrated” after causing the fatal head wound and the other allegedly passing through his throat and causing Governor Connally’s wounds in the chest and wrist (the magic bullet). The bullet that the “Secret Service” was trying to ignore didn’t officially exist, but maybe this bullet was to become the “magic bullet.”

If this bullet had actually become “dislodged,” Mr. Wright’s unwanted help was interfering with plans for a cover-up. If Mr. Wright was mistaken and it hadn’t become “dislodged,” then it was there to factor into the fabricated story of how Kennedy’s wounds were caused. Either way, it was undoubtedly very important that “Secret Service” agents ignore the security chief’s attempts to call their attention to the bullet on the floor.

Twenty-six days after Kennedy was assassinated, a Washington Post article headlined “Kennedy Autopsy Report: Final Bullet Was Lethal” said, “Both bullets that struck the President were tied by ballistics tests to the rifle found in that building where Lee Harvey Oswald worked,” and one of the bullets was “found deep in his shoulder,” but “the one bullet that struck Governor Connally, however, could not be similarly traced to any rifle because it fragmented.”

In this scenario, the “Secret Service” would have to be ignoring the bullet that struck Kennedy in the head, which has since officially “disintegrated.”

The “magic bullet,” which the new story alleges passed through Kennedy’s throat and wounded Governor Connally, is officially the only bullet in evidence, and it was “officially” found on a stretcher, but the “Secret Service” was the source of that official information.

Ah, that chain of evidence thing.....

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Here is a link showing 2 bullet fragments from Kennedys head.

http://arcweb.archives.gov/arc/arch_result...;nh=48&st=a

one thing that two tours in Detroit Homicide taught me, is not to overthink or overcomplicate the issue-the conspirators controlled the autopsy and "investigation" there was no need for Sabots or other overly complex methodology. As the original training sgt for the swat team in Detroit I visited Dealy Plaza while in Dallas for a police training conference-the BD was the last place any sane person would choose and especially not the 6th floor as escape routes and time to flee would be limited.

the showers of fragments thru the head looks like xrays I've seen of Glaser Safety Slugs.

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the showers of fragments thru the head looks like xrays I've seen of Glaser Safety Slugs.

The manufacturer's website says that Glaser Safety Slugs have been in use "For over 30 years."

Do you know if this slug, or something comparable, was actually available in 1963?

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm

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the showers of fragments thru the head looks like xrays I've seen of Glaser Safety Slugs.

The manufacturer's website says that Glaser Safety Slugs have been in use "For over 30 years."

Do you know if this slug, or something comparable, was actually available in 1963?

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm

Jack Cannon, US Army Intelligence-China-and a guy with an interesting back ground played with the load for awhile prior to its introduction on the market. current mfg is an old friend of mine, original loads were developed in Germany. Cannon was a contempary of and knew Mitch Werbell and George Nonte.

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Ron, the semi automatic Argentine FN-1949, an excellently designed/preciscion manufactured rifle was very prolific in South America at the time. Certainly not one to leave behind at the scene. I can't remember for sure but I think the clip had to be modified from 10 to 5 to suit regulations. I'm not saying at all it was what was there, but mention it as an alternative among alternatives. My understanding is also that the Swedish Mauser was (and is) a highly regarded choice. (don't imagine just for these snippets I'm one to have a serious detailed discussion about rifles with)

Edited by John Dolva
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We went back into the bedroom from the kitchen. While in the bedroom he said, "I want to show you something." He opened the top drawer of the dresser and pulled out a shoulder holster -- there was a 32 revolver with a three inch barrel in the shoulder holster. He pulled the 32 out of the holster and said, "what do you think about that?" I remarked that you don't see many 32's with a barrel like that. He put the 32 back in the drawer and went around to the side of the closet which was not visible when you went into the kitchen. At that time he produced two rifles -- one was a bolt action which looked like a 30.06, the other was a high power automatic which appeared to be a 257 caliber.

I remarked that they were nice rifles and I would like to have a good deer hunting rifle. He then laid those two on the bed and he said, "You haven't seen anything yet." He then got down on the floor and he pulled 5 more rifles from under the bed. Each of these were equipped with scopes. He then pulled a cardboard box about 13 inches long and 10 inches deep also from under the bed. The box was closed and on the side was printed "Ammunition -- Handle With Care." He then slid the rifles and ammunition back under the bed. I said jokingly, "What are you gonna do -- start a war?" He said, "Could be."

Always found that bit from Roger Craig interesting...

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From Volume I, page 464 of the HSCA hearings:

Mr. MCDONALD. Did you compare the FBI test bullets with your own test bullets that you recently fired out of 139?

Mr. BATES. Yes, we also made a microscopic comparison of that.

Mr. MCDONALD. And what did the comparison show?

Mr. BATES. The results of this examination indicated that we could not determine whether the FBI test bullets were, in

fact, fired from the rifle, CE-139.

Mr. McDONALD. And would you please explain your answer?

Mr. BATES. Based upon the microscopic comparison, there were differences in the individual identifying

characteristics found within the land and groove impressions on the FBI test bullets and on the panel test bullets.

NO MATCH.....

A bullet was found by Darrell Tomlinson on a stretcher at Parkland hospital, where both Kennedy and Connally were taken. He gave this bullet to O.P. Wright, the hospital's security director. Neither Tomlinson nor Wright ever identified CE 399 as the bullet they handled. In fact, Wright said CE 399 "was definitely not the one handed him by Tomlinson" and that the bullet he found resembled a pointed .30, not a blunt 6.5mm like CE 399. Even if it is the bullet found at Parkland, CE 399 was most likely found on the stretcher of "two-year-old Ronald (Ronnie) Fuller, who entered the Parkland emergency room at 12:54 P.M. with a bad cut on the chin.

The original "stretcher bullet," also given to the Secret Service, was not rounded but possibly pointed, Darrell Tomlinson stated; O.P. Wright, the man he handed it to, said it was definitely pointed. They were ignored, but now we have the corroborating HSCA interview of Nathan Pool, who actually found it and gave it to Tomlinson: "long, pointed and smooth." A large skull fragment, seen in the limousine at Parkland by Secret Service agent Clint Hill, and recovered from the car on the flight back to Washington by his colleague Sam Kinney, disappeared from the record after Kinney turned it in.

Darrell Tomlinson, Nathan Pool and O. P. Wright could not identify CE-399 as the bullet they saw at Parkland Hospital. Both Pool and Wright claimed that the stretcher bullet was pointed, and did not have a rounded nose like CE-399. Tomlinson, who has been quoted as saying that he did not think CE-399 was the bullet he saw, has indicated that the bullet might have been pointed although he was not as certain as Pool and Wright. Unlike the round-nose 6.5mm Carcano bullets, the 7.35mm ammo is in fact pointed.

Parkland personnel director O.P. Wright, said that the bullet he saw and held on the day of the assassination did not look like the bullet that later turned up in FBI evidence. That claim was in direct conflict with an FBI memo of July 7, 1964, which said that Wright had told an FBI agent that the bullet did look like the shell he’d held on the day of the murder.

A declassified 6/20/64 FBI AIRTEL memorandum from the FBI office in Dallas (“SAC, Dallas” – i.e., Special Agent in Charge, Gordon Shanklin) to J. Edgar Hoover contains the statement, “For information WFO (FBI Washington Field Office), neither DARRELL C. TOMLINSON [sic], who found bullet at Parkland Hospital, Dallas, nor O. P. WRIGHT, Personnel Officer, Parkland Hospital, who obtained bullet from TOMLINSON and gave to Special Service, at Dallas 11/22/63, can identify bullet … .”

Wright said: “That bullet had a pointed tip.”

June 24, 1964, FBI agent Todd, who received the bullet from Rowley, the head of the Secret Service, returned with presumably the same bullet to get Secret Service agents Johnsen and Rowley to identify it. #2011 reports that both Johnsen and Rowley advised Todd that they “could not identify this bullet as the one” they saw on the day of the assassination.

Robert Frazier of the FBI Crime Lab received 399 on the evening of November 22 from another FBI agent, Elmer Todd (3H428, 24 412). Todd, in turn had received it a few minutes earlier from Chief Rowley of the Secret Service, who had been given it by one of his agents, Richard Johnsen (24H412). Johnsen had attached a note to the bullet stating that he obtained it from "Mr. O.P. Wright / Personal Director of Security / Dallas County Hospital District." The chain of custody was thus established as Tomlinson-Wright-Johnsen-Rowley-Todd-Frazier.

Yet, in a document released by the ARRB in January, 1996, we first learned that Gerald A. Behn, the Secret Service agent in charge of the White House detail, stated that he was in the chain of custody of CE 399. Behn claimed that he received the bullet from Special Agent Richard Johnsen then turned it over to the FBI. With Behn's statement, we have Rowley evaporating from the scene. Behn's statement is a fatal conflict in the chain of custody of this crucial piece of evidence. Any break in that chain reasonably allows for the bullet's already evident, criminal transformation from pointed to rounded.

Two FBI agents initialed the bullet they received, Johnsen did not, breaking the chain of custody. (24 H 412) When we consider further that O.P. Wright, the man who allegedly gave the bullet to Johnsen, does not even mention this very important find in his report, and that Darrell Tomlinson, the man who found the bullet in the first place, stated that the bullet in government hands is NOT the bullet he actually found.

The M91/38 Cal. 7.92 (the standard German caliber prior to the NATO 7.62) modified Carcanos had an "S" stamped on the breech block to designate they accommodated the 7.92 caliber. And they were, in fact, clip-fed.150 In 1905 when this caliber was adopted in Germany, the breech block of the Mauser 1898 was stamped with the "S" to indicate that the new standard caliber 7.92 ammunition was required. This practice was carried forward on the modified Carcano. Apparently the origin of the "S" was that it stood for "spitzer," the German word for "pointed." These new bullets were just that, rather than round-ended.

Argentine Mausers included the Fusil Mauser modelo Argentino 1891 modificado para Bala `S' modelo 1909. Again, the "S" probably stood for spitzer (pointed).

Anthony is correct that no one was interested in the bullet.

O.P. Wright told CBS' Eddie Barker: "...I got hold of a Secret Service man and they (sic) didn't seem to be interested in coming and looking at the bullet in the position it was in then. So I went back to the area where Mr. Tomlinson was and picked up the bullet and put it in my pocket, and I carried it some 30 or 40 minutes. [emphasis Graf's and Bartholomew's] And I gave it to a Secret Service man that was guarding the main door into the emergency room..." Who was the first agent Wright spoke to?

HSCA attorney Belford V. Lawson, in charge of the Secret Service area of the “investigation”, is the author of a recently uncovered memo in regard to an interview with hospital employee Nathan Pool conducted on January 10, 1977

and headlined “Pool’s co-discovery of the ‘Tomlinson’ bullet”. In the memo, Pool mentions the fact that two Secret Service agents were by the elevator, one of which “remained there throughout most or all of Pool’s stay”. Before we can

catch our breath, a third Secret Service agent enters the picture. Although all these men were in the immediate vicinity of the discovery of the bullet, one particular agent “was within 10 feet when Pool recognized the bullet”. According to

Pool, the bullet was pointed, and he added that it “didn’t look like it had hit anything and didn’t look like it had been in anything”.

While it is an “official” fact that Agent Richard Johnsen gained possession of CE–399 (the magic bullet, linked to Lee Harvey Oswald) at Parkland Hospital via security chief O. P. Wright (Wright had obtained the bullet through employees

Darrel Tomlinson and Nathan Pool, who had first obtained it in the presence of one or more Secret Service agents at Parkland Hospital), what has never been widely reported is the fact that Agent Greer maintained very close proximity to

Johnsen and the bullet in question:

a. Both agents guarded the emergency room: Greer inside, Johnsen outside.

If the FBI’ report is accurate, Greer was the only agent stationed inside the

emergency room with JFK.

b. The FBI’s report also stated that the bullet was “found on a stretcher in the

emergency room”. Officially, the bullet was found in a corridor outside of this

room.

c. Johnsen rode with Greer in a car on the way to Air Force One, along with

fellow agents David Grant, Samuel Sulliman, Ernest Olsson, and Paul Lan-

dis—and we’re supposed to believe that all of these agents remained silent

about the bullet.

d. Greer rode with Johnsen near the casket in the back of Air Force One, from

the time that LBJ was sworn in, when the majority of agents and fellow pas-

sengers were up front.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds_3.html

http://www.geocities.com/jeff_l_schwartz/thesis.html

www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1/v4n1chapter08.pdf

http://www.assassinationweb.com/shack3f.htm

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/fram...MoreMagical.htm

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The particles do appear to have come from a glazer or some other very fast and highly frangible bullet. I frankly do not know "exactly" what was available in 1963.

What has always most seriously bothered me is the Zapruder film's depiction of the IMPACT. It loks as if JFK is being lifted by something with the force of Barry Bond's baseball bat. This was the primary reason that I initially thought that there was "Z" film alteration or excision of frames. As has been pointed out by Dr. Mantik in several of his theses, this is too violent an impact to have been brought about by a bullet impact. I would also like to refer readers to "Bullet Penetration", by Duncan Mac Pherson, and to several FBI studies which I will have to re-find in order to give you the study number.

Bullet impact on animals of the 170 pound variety, are universally explained as having one of these effects: 1) the target is struck and immeiately falls 2) the target is struck and falls within a short time span 3) the target is struck and displays virtually no reaction 4) the target is struck and responds by attacking 5) the target responds and walks or runs away and may later drop as it "bleeds out".

The bullet impacted 170 pound animal is never described, when struck by a rifle or pistol round, as being lifted or projected backward. This is a Hollywood creation.

I feel that no one is "certain" of the "exact" projectile which struck JFK in the head, but it can reasonably be assured that the violent upward, backward and to the left portrayal, that is seen in the Zapruder film (especially when played at full speed), is the result of of something other than a bullet strike. I strongly feel that THIS is what should be given more attention. Most who have knowledgeably studied the head wound are in agreement that it was caused by a "highly" frangible bullet. Even those who would argue the direction in which the bullet or bullets travelled,

do not disagree that it was a highly frangible projectile or projectiles.

Most forum members would have no reason to know this, but the study of ballistics tells us that the force of a bullets impact on a target, cannot be greater than the force of the recoil of the weapon upon the shooter.

Charlie Black

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The particles do appear to have come from a glazer or some other very fast and highly frangible bullet. I frankly do not know "exactly" what was available in 1963.

What has always most seriously bothered me is the Zapruder film's depiction of the IMPACT. It loks as if JFK is being lifted by something with the force of Barry Bond's baseball bat. This was the primary reason that I initially thought that there was "Z" film alteration or excision of frames. As has been pointed out by Dr. Mantik in several of his theses, this is too violent an impact to have been brought about by a bullet impact. I would also like to refer readers to "Bullet Penetration", by Duncan Mac Pherson, and to several FBI studies which I will have to re-find in order to give you the study number.

Bullet impact on animals of the 170 pound variety, are universally explained as having one of these effects: 1) the target is struck and immeiately falls 2) the target is struck and falls within a short time span 3) the target is struck and displays virtually no reaction 4) the target is struck and responds by attacking 5) the target responds and walks or runs away and may later drop as it "bleeds out".

The bullet impacted 170 pound animal is never described, when struck by a rifle or pistol round, as being lifted or projected backward. This is a Hollywood creation.

I feel that no one is "certain" of the "exact" projectile which struck JFK in the head, but it can reasonably be assured that the violent upward, backward and to the left portrayal, that is seen in the Zapruder film (especially when played at full speed), is the result of of something other than a bullet strike. I strongly feel that THIS is what should be given more attention. Most who have knowledgeably studied the head wound are in agreement that it was caused by a "highly" frangible bullet. Even those who would argue the direction in which the bullet or bullets travelled,

do not disagree that it was a highly frangible projectile or projectiles.

Most forum members would have no reason to know this, but the study of ballistics tells us that the force of a bullets impact on a target, cannot be greater than the force of the recoil of the weapon upon the shooter.

Charlie Black

While I agree that people react differently than the movies or TV would indicate I've personally witnessed people struck by high powered rifle rounds and the reaction is immediate and significant. I subdued a man who died later in the lockup-he had been shot 6 times by another officer with a .38 Special revolver-I never saw any blood and he never complained of being shot.

I've personally been present when people had an even greater reaction than JFK and seen countless video's of police sniper shooting where the reaction to being hit by a rifle bullet was severe. I sat on the 1st FBI Wound Ballistics Panel and have written three best sellling books on ballistics and remain convinced that we still don't know very much and I've grown exceedingly weary of self-anointed experts over the yrs-I'm not an expert, just a retired Detroit Sgt who worked both Homicide and SWAT.

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Hello Evan

I acknowledge your police experience and I own two of your books.

I do dispute the violent reaction captured in the xtant Zapruder film as typically being assciated with a gunshot (I am not certain however that it was a rifle), and I agree with most ballistics experts with whom I have conferred, this strong a reaction is highly unlikely to have been caused by the strike of any hand held or shoulder fired firearm.

Before attempting to dig out some of my old correspondence, I will quickly refer you and all who might be so interested, in the works of both Dr. Mantik and others which you may most easily find in the books ..."Assassination Science"-- "The Great Zapruder Film Hoax"---and "Murder in Dealey Plaza". I unlike Bill Miller and a few others on this forum, find these works, along with the work of Jack White (to name but one) to be quite credible.

I was looking over "The Goat Shotings" in one of your works....I did not find mention of any reaction similar to what is observed on the "Z" film. It was my understanding that the choice of the use of "goats" was because these animals were thought to replicate the reaction of bullets to those of humans.

I have seen "all" forms of larger animals shot with a variety of weapons, and have never observed such a violent natural reaction.

I would like to refer you and whoever might be interested, to something which I have on many occassion been critcized by Bill Miller and associates. I feel that you surely have seen depictions on TV's History Channel...Discovery Channel and PBS of films shot in Nazi concentration camps during WWII. The films that I am specifically referring to are the ones which usually picture prisoners both standing and kneeling before previously dug "grave pits". They are then shot in the posterior skull with either 9mm Lugers or German Mausers at Point Blank range (only inches from weapon to skull) .

In EVERY case these victims fall forward from their standing or kneeling positions into the grave. Not one has displayed anything remotely similar to the reaction of JFK in the extant Zapruder film .

Another film which the world was "overly exposed" to a few years back, which I don't feel that anyone has missed, was the horror of a South Vietnamese Officer shooting point blank thru the temple of a, presumed to be, very young Viet Cong. You will notice that although the bullet passes thru his skull....his head is not propelled in ANY direction.

Even in TV depictions of Melons being struck with rifle bullets, how many have noticed that although the melon explodes.....the base of the melon usually remains on the table top...not propelled.

I have, do, and will continue to maintain that the seeming reactionary propelling of JFK's head and "BODY" could not have been caused by a fired projectile from a weapon smaller than an "artillery piece".

Charlie Black

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addendum to my immediately prior post

I would greatly respect the courteousy from those of you who have not witnessed personally the shooting of large animals.....or somehow do not recall the films to which I have referred, to please hold your comments until you have done so... as you are very obviously not qualified to intelligently respond.

This is one of those few topics in which neither personal opinion nor speculation can carry very much weight. I am not attempting to be rude, but there have been millions of wasted words and "speculations" regarding what I feel to be the most crucial peice of evidence in this entire case.

Charlie Black

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