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Tom,

I have seen photographs of President Kennedy's coat in books and in articles which show a single bullet hole 5 or 6 inches down from the top of the collar. I have never seen photographs showing that there is a second bullet hole at the collar so I was wondering where you found out about this extra hole?

You quote FBI agent Hill saying that he saw the President lying down on the back seat of the Limo with the right rear part of his skull missing and his brain exposed. It does make you question the autopsy photgraph showing the scalp at the back of the President's head looking completely intact except for the presumed entry wound in the cow lick area. Also the lateral xray you posted shows fracturing of the occipital bone but no actual absence of bone in the right rear portion of the head where agent hill says there was missing skull. Any comments?

Tony;

I have seen photographs of President Kennedy's coat in books and in articles which show a single bullet hole 5 or 6 inches down from the top of the collar. I have never seen photographs showing that there is a second bullet hole at the collar so I was wondering where you found out about this extra hole?

The coat of JFK was introduced into evidence during the questioning of Dr. Humes.

Prior to the actual questioning, and as with all witnesses, Specter & Company conducted an "off-the-record" interview/discussion, and just as with any testifying witness, they/Specter & Company fully learned what questions not to ask as well as "imprinting" onto the witness that certain items were an established fact.

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Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the Commission, I would like to have identified for the record three articles on which I have placed Commission Exhibits Nos. 393 being the coat worn by the President, 394 being the shirt, and 395 being the President's tie, and at this time move for their admission into evidence.

Mr. SPECTER - Taking 393 at the start, Doctor Humes, will you describe for the record what hole, if any, is observable in the back of that garment which would be at or about the spot you have described as being the point of entry on the President's back or lower neck.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. This exhibit is a grey suit coat stated to have been worn by the President on the day of his death. Situated to the right of the midline high in the back portion of the coat is a defect, one margin of which is semicircular.

Situated above it just below the collar is an additional defect. It is our opinion that the lower of these defects corresponds essentially with the point of entrance of the missile at Point C on Exhibit 385.

Commander HUMES - That is approximately correct, sir. This defect, I might say, continues on through the material.

Attached to this garment is the memorandum which states that one half of the area around the hole which was presented had been removed by experts, I believe, at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and also that a control area was taken from under the collar, so it is my interpretation that this defect at the top of this garment is the control area taken by the Bureau, and that the reason the lower defect is not more circle or oval in outline is because a portion of that defect has been removed apparently for physical examinations.

------------------------------------------------

Had Dr. Humes been a qualified Forensic Pathologist, then he would have known that bullets DO NOT ", under normal entry, "punch out" areas of fabric and thereafter carry this fabric down into the wound of entry.

Thusly, the larger lower hole is in fact a "punch" entry created by the base of CE399, with some additional enlargement due to FBI Agent Henry Heiberger cutting and removing some of the loose thread around the hole for spectrographic examination.

--------------------------------------------------

Mr. SPECTER - Now, does the one which you have described as the entry of the bullet go all the way through?

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes through both layers.

Mr. SPECTER - How about the upper one of the collar you have described, does that go all the way through?

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--wait a minute, excuse me it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the one below.

Mr. SPECTER - Does the upper one go all the way through in the same course?

Commander HUMES - No.

Mr. SPECTER - Through the inner side as it went through the outer side?

Commander HUMES - No, in an irregular fashion.

---------------------------------------------------------------

That "irregular fashion" is due to the acute angle of impact of the bullet at the coat collar when JFK was leaned well forward and the collar slightly raised, thusly the acute angle of penetration through the outer layer of fabric as well as then striking the inner liner of the coat, and then upon exiting the coat strking JFK in the edge of the hairline.

(if you take the HSCA photo, rotate to the horizontal, and thereafter rolled JFK's head to the right, then one is relatively close to the position at the time of impact of the last/Altgens shot. Of course, one also has to raise the collar slightly as well.)

P.S. The SECOND entry through the coat has been discussed here considerably, and let me merely add that I am the only known person to have ever discussed the spectrographic examination of JFK's clothing with FBI Agents Frazier; Gallagher: Heilman; & Henry Heiberger. Of whom, Henry Heiberger is the ONLY person to have conducted these tests.

You quote FBI agent Hill saying that he saw the President lying down on the back seat of the Limo with the right rear part of his skull missing and his brain exposed. It does make you question the autopsy photgraph showing the scalp at the back of the President's head looking completely intact except for the presumed entry wound in the cow lick area.

Nope! It merely makes one have to work harder in order to find and examine the explanation for this, which many assume to be a discrepancy.

Also the lateral xray you posted shows fracturing of the occipital bone but no actual absence of bone in the right rear portion of the head where agent hill says there was missing skull. Any comments?

Comments: The "presumed" discrepancy most assuredly was not the work of "Body Snatchers/aka Wound Alteration Specialists".

Now! In event that you were also looking for an explanation as well.

Z313/aka Shot#2 blew the skull cap section off the top of JFK's head. Mostly remaining attached to the scalp, this section of skull was "blown" over to the right and was hanging on the right hand side of JFK's head after the bullet had completed it's fragmented exit from the frontal lobes of the brain/skull.

Shot#3/aka Altgens impact/aka the EOP entry, completely fractured the surrounding bone into multiple pieces due to the fact that the integrity of the skull was already compromised due to the loss of that portion which was blown off the top (the skull cap section) by the Z313 shot.

The "blowback" pressures created by the entry of the EOP bullet, blew open the now already torn area of scalp and the fragmented skull, attached to the scalp in this area.

Due to the already compromised/torn scalp as well as weakening of the skull as a result of the Z313 impact, the back of the head was in fact "blown back", scalp, fragmented skull, and all.

This "blowback" area of damage to the occipital region (figure "B" on the lateral X-ray) is the area which Clint Hill observed, as well as all of those Parkland ER personnel who observed the damage to the OCCIPITAL region of JFK's skull.

After JFK's pronounced death, the nurses in Parkland who cleaned and wrapped JFK's body, pulled this OCCIPITAL area of scalp and fragmented skull attached to the scalp, back into place prior to wraping JFK's head in a towel.

When JFK arrived at Bethesda, the rear of the head was intact, (back in place somewhat) and that portion of the top of JFK's head was what was now separated and missing.

So, the Cowlick entry was completely missed as the initial examination in which Humes & Boswell determined the point of entry at the EOP was made after examination of the fragmented OCCIPITAL region of the skull in which this bullet hole was present upon initial examination.

Which of course opens the door to more questions as to exactly how did things manage get so screwed up in the Bethesda Autopsy lab.

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Not that difficult since Altgens could not have even seen JFK at the time of the Z313 impact, even if he were looking. Which he was not, as he was re-focusing his camera to the 15 foot distance setting.

Tom,

If Altgen's didn't see the 313 headshot, he is then describing the last shot nearest him, in both his testimony and the previous video I supplied.

But he contradicts himself by saying JFK was in a "upright position and tilted" in the video, while his testimony states he wasn't upright, but at an angle.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Did Altgen's just mis-speak.

The animation shows a moment when JFK moves forward, still leaning along with JBC moving in sync.

chris

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Not that difficult since Altgens could not have even seen JFK at the time of the Z313 impact, even if he were looking. Which he was not, as he was re-focusing his camera to the 15 foot distance setting.

Tom,

If Altgen's didn't see the 313 headshot, he is then describing the last shot nearest him, in both his testimony and the previous video I supplied.

But he contradicts himself by saying JFK was in a "upright position and tilted" in the video, while his testimony states he wasn't upright, but at an angle.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Did Altgen's just mis-speak.

The animation shows a moment when JFK moves forward, still leaning along with JBC moving in sync.

chris

Chris:

Not unlike Bill Miller attempting to determine "what I meant", attempting to determine exactly what Altgens meant in his choice of words would be mere speculation.

The frames of the Z-film are interesting and certainly demonstrate something! However I would be more inclined to think "braking" of the auto as the cause of two individuals moving forward simultaneously, as well as the ability of Clint Hill to close onto the vehicle.

Unfortunately, this would also mean that the motorcycle cops were also slowing down as well, assuming the film is correct.

Perhaps the following will be of some assistance. It too is scaled correctly.

1-inch = 10 feet, which is of course the WC Survey Plat Scale.

It is noted that in addition to being almost 40-feet from Altgens position to JFK's position, the street elevation at Altgens location was also some 2-feet lower in elevation than the street elevation for the location of JFK.

Hope this is some help.

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Not that difficult since Altgens could not have even seen JFK at the time of the Z313 impact, even if he were looking. Which he was not, as he was re-focusing his camera to the 15 foot distance setting.

Tom,

If Altgen's didn't see the 313 headshot, he is then describing the last shot nearest him, in both his testimony and the previous video I supplied.

But he contradicts himself by saying JFK was in a "upright position and tilted" in the video, while his testimony states he wasn't upright, but at an angle.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Did Altgen's just mis-speak.

The animation shows a moment when JFK moves forward, still leaning along with JBC moving in sync.

chris

Chris:

Not unlike Bill Miller attempting to determine "what I meant", attempting to determine exactly what Altgens meant in his choice of words would be mere speculation.

The frames of the Z-film are interesting and certainly demonstrate something! However I would be more inclined to think "braking" of the auto as the cause of two individuals moving forward simultaneously, as well as the ability of Clint Hill to close onto the vehicle.

Unfortunately, this would also mean that the motorcycle cops were also slowing down as well, assuming the film is correct.

Perhaps the following will be of some assistance. It too is scaled correctly.

1-inch = 10 feet, which is of course the WC Survey Plat Scale.

It is noted that in addition to being almost 40-feet from Altgens position to JFK's position, the street elevation at Altgens location was also some 2-feet lower in elevation than the street elevation for the location of JFK.

Hope this is some help.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol18_0054a.htm

And now, as another "Harvey" was known to have stated, you have "The Rest of The Story".

At least as far as James Altgens is concerned.

The WC, during their some phony assassination re-enactment, "duplicated" James Altgens Z255 photo.

However, when one compares the actual Altgens photo with the "Re-enactment" photo, they find that these two photographs were in fact taken from completely different positions. And in fact, the re-enactment photo was taken from a point which was considerably farther up Elm St., closer to the TSDB, as well as being farther to the "right" than was the actual position of James Altgens.

This is clearly discernable by looking at the letters on the face of the TSDB which appear in the fork of the Live Oak tree, as well as alignment of the JFK stand-in with the corner edge of the concrete column to the rear; as well as the alignment of the Kellerman stand-in with the same column's corner, as well as a vertical alignment comparison between the end of the yellow stripe on the street (at the left front tire), and comparison with that exact same vertical alignment between the two photographs.

As has been stated previously, that frame of the Z-film which demonstrates James Altgens standing on the street curb with his camera virtually to his eye, and the presidential limo in front of him, appeared in newspapers nationwide within only a few days after the assassination.

With this knowledge, as well as the full knowledge of the yellow curb marks and the entire Z-film, there is absolutely no rational excuse for not being able to place the exact location on Elm St. of James Altgens. Whether it be for re-enactment purposes or for filming an "re-enactment" photo.

And, this could have been done to an accuracy of less than a foot of error.

What Specter & Company gave us instead was:

1. A completely phony re-enactment photo which was taken from a location at which James Altgens WAS NOT standing.

2. A "slight/sleight-of-hand" WC Exhibit which actually placed James Altgens position so far back up Elm St. that he would have been between the Moorman/Hill location and the TSDB.

3. An attempt to not even call James Altgens to testify, and did so only after his newspaper wrote an article about how such a key witness who had taken critical photographs, had not even been called to testify.

4. And even then, James Altgens was merely questioned by Wesley Liebeler in Dallas, TX on July 22, 1964, with absolutely no other WC members present.

5. Lastly, by the time that James ALtgens was questioned, the WC had established their "conclusion" and the draft of the WC Report was in the process of being reviewed, and for all practical purposes the WC Investigation was through.

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Tom,

I have been able to go along with most of the ideas you have put forward. However, I am having problems with the second headshot. You suggest that the bullet entered the skin just above the hairline and penetrated the skull close to the EOP. There is certainly some evidence for this but I see that the trajectory would be almost vertical relative to the anatomical position. However, if you look at the Supplementary Report of the Autopsy of President Kennedy (ie the part where the brain is examined) you find the following statement: "There is a longitudinal laceration of the right hemisphere which is para-sagital in position approximately 2.5cm to the right of the midline which extends from the tip of the occipital lobe posteriorly to the tip of the frontal lobe anteriorly..." To me this suggests that a bullet travelled from the back of the head through the right cerebral hemisphere in a posterior-anterior direction with a largely horizontal trajectory going upwards only to a minor extent. This seems to be at odds with the trajectory that you suggest.

Is there any way of resolving this apparent contradiction?

Tony

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Tom,

I have been able to go along with most of the ideas you have put forward. However, I am having problems with the second headshot. You suggest that the bullet entered the skin just above the hairline and penetrated the skull close to the EOP. There is certainly some evidence for this but I see that the trajectory would be almost vertical relative to the anatomical position. However, if you look at the Supplementary Report of the Autopsy of President Kennedy (ie the part where the brain is examined) you find the following statement: "There is a longitudinal laceration of the right hemisphere which is para-sagital in position approximately 2.5cm to the right of the midline which extends from the tip of the occipital lobe posteriorly to the tip of the frontal lobe anteriorly..." To me this suggests that a bullet travelled from the back of the head through the right cerebral hemisphere in a posterior-anterior direction with a largely horizontal trajectory going upwards only to a minor extent. This seems to be at odds with the trajectory that you suggest.

Is there any way of resolving this apparent contradiction?

Tony

No problem! I understand it, (or at least think that I do), and I get confused at times.

1. The First Shot is CE399, which, just as always initially reported at the autopsy as well as by JEH & Company, merely penetrated a shallow distance into JFK's back.

2. The Second Shot is the Z313 impact, which is the first impact to the head. This is the "cowlick" impact to the top rear high of JFK's head and was pretty much a "grazing shot which penetrated at the cowlick and began it's exit from inside the skull in the vicinity of the junction of the parietal lobe and the frontal lobe of the skull.

This is the bullet which severely fragment and in so doing, took out a large portion of the frontal lobe of the skull as it sent fragments forward to the windshield; windshield molding; JBC's wrist; Tague; etc;

3. The Third Shot is that impact which occurred some 30 feet farther down Elm St., directly in front of James Altgens position.

It is the shot which, due to the leaned forward and to the left, head down and turned slightly to the right, position of JFK, went through the coat at the edge of the coat collar; exited to strike the scalp just up from the edge of the hairline; "tunnelled" through the soft tissue at the base of the neck, and thereafter struck JFK in the EOP region of the skull.

This is also the shot which created that cerebral damage to the tip of the occipital lobe of the brain.

After having passed through the head of JFK, the bullet exited and struck JBC in the right shoulder, just to the right of the shoulder blade.

Hope that cleared a few things up.

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Tom,

I have been able to go along with most of the ideas you have put forward. However, I am having problems with the second headshot. You suggest that the bullet entered the skin just above the hairline and penetrated the skull close to the EOP. There is certainly some evidence for this but I see that the trajectory would be almost vertical relative to the anatomical position. However, if you look at the Supplementary Report of the Autopsy of President Kennedy (ie the part where the brain is examined) you find the following statement: "There is a longitudinal laceration of the right hemisphere which is para-sagital in position approximately 2.5cm to the right of the midline which extends from the tip of the occipital lobe posteriorly to the tip of the frontal lobe anteriorly..." To me this suggests that a bullet travelled from the back of the head through the right cerebral hemisphere in a posterior-anterior direction with a largely horizontal trajectory going upwards only to a minor extent. This seems to be at odds with the trajectory that you suggest.

Is there any way of resolving this apparent contradiction?

Tony

Tony;

Were I in the business of giving such as the "Mary Ferrell Award", then you would most assuredly be at the top of the listing for the "Tom Purvis Attaboy" award.

(which of course would most probably only serve to get you laughed at a lot).

You have pretty well found the pathway of the true/one and only, "Magic Bullet"/aka that bullet which impacted down in front of James Altgens, penetrated through the head of JFK, and exited to strike JBC in the right shoulder as he lay across the open area of the jump seats with his back and right shoulder exposed to the projectile as it exited the frontal lobe of JFK's brain.

Which pathway, if one will fully read all of the examination of the brain, passed through the mid-brain region.

NOT, the upper areas of the parietal and frontal lobes which were ripped all to pieces by the fragmenting bullet strike at Z313.

Humes "assumed" that the damage to the mid-brain was created by some sort of fragment, and merely ignored that it was not a jagged ripping area similar to that damage across the upper areas of the parietal and frontal lobe.

Additionally, if one goes back and reads up on all works, they will find that the lateral skull X-ray was once marked with what was presumed to be an air/emphysema pathway directly through this area which was created by the projectile.

Lastly, although not "orginal source" information (since the original was actually burned), one may want to go back and read the next best thing, which is the handwritten autopsy notes of Dr. Humes.

There are many items here which ultimately did not end up in the "Final Report".

Beginning with the "tangential" strike to the scalp in the occipital region.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0031b.htm

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I would suppose that it would be best to get this train back on track and to it's final destination.

Now! Everyone who is of the opinion that JFK was struck in the edge of the hairline by a bullet fired on a downward angle, and said bullet then immediately turned upwards and blew off the "skull cap" section of his head as seen in Z313, please raise your hand.

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Summary:

1. Tangential wound of the scalp.

2. Extremely elongated entry wound (15mm).

3. Tunnel through the soft tissue of the neck.

4. Skull entry at a higher point than the scalp entry.

OH! This is so difficult, is it not?

P.S. Did I forget to mention that the bullet also went through the slightly raised coat collar?

Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence.

As a general rule, it merely means that one does not understand the evidence.

(Tom Purvis)

Edited by Thomas H. Purvis
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Thomas H. Purvis Posted Today, 04:28 AM

Summary:

1. Tangential wound of the scalp.

2. Extremely elongated entry wound (15mm).

3. Tunnel through the soft tissue of the neck.

4. Skull entry at a higher point than the scalp entry.

OH! This is so difficult, is it not?

P.S. Did I forget to mention that the bullet also went through the slightly raised coat collar?

Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence.

As a general rule, it merely means that one does not understand the evidence.

(Tom Purvis)

Tom, When was Kennedy's head in this type of position?

post-653-1205935378_thumb.jpg

Edited by Antti Hynonen
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