Lee Oswald’s Departure from the TSBD

[William Kelly]

What was that about two IBM guys being in the shoe store?

Did I read that on this thread?

What happened to them? Did they stay behind in the shoestore while the salesman chased the assassin into the theater?

Do we know their names?

Did they ever make a statement?

Then there's the story among the records that they showed a film of the assassination at the IBM offices on the afternoon of the assassination.

BK

Two additional witnesses to the flight of the Tippit killer, never interviewed.

From Ian Griggs No Case To Answer:

Ian L Griggs: So you would be there, listening to the radio and you have got a view of the door and the street though it.

JCBrewer: Oh yeah. There's a door right there. I have a full view of the front.

ILG: Now we're obviously leading up to your view of this man acting strangely. When this happened, John, were you in the shop by yourself?

JCB: There were two other men in there. They were from IBM - they were in the neighborhood. I had known them ever since I came there. (4)

ILG: Customers?

JCB: No, they weren't customers. They'd just come in and kill time and lounge around.

ILG: Right. Were there any other salesmen in the shop apart from yourself?

JCB: No, there were not. In fact I had planned to be off that day - except that my assistant called me in. His newborn was ill. I had just taken delivery of a brand new '64 Galaxy CL500 Ford and I had not intention of being at work tht day. And it was parked out in front of the store and I was feeding nickels to it all day long, just waiting to get off. And they just stood around and talked, the IBM men.

.....ILG: When you left the shop to see what this chap was doing, did you mention anyting to the two other fellows who were in the shop?

JCB: Oh yes, I think I said something. And I walked out on to the sidewalk. Are you familiar with the furniture store?

ILG: Yes. Thomsen's. I know where that was (5)

JCB: And he was right in that area when I picked up again and saw him.....

No Case To Answer (JFK Lancer, Ian Griggs, p. 58-59)

Footnotes:

(4) These two men have not been identified.

(5) The Thomsen Furniture Mart occupied the building adjiacent to the Texas Theatre. SEe page 150 of Robert Groden's The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald.

Brewers affidavit is CD2003, p.14 CE 24H 203.

Edited November 12, 2008 by William Kelly

[Duke Lane]

What was that about two IBM guys being in the shoe store? Did I read that on this thread?

What happened to them? Did they stay behind in the shoestore while the salesman chased the assassin into the theater?

Do we know their names? Did they ever make a statement?

Then there's the story among the records that they showed a film of the assassination at the IBM offices on the afternoon of the assassination.

Two additional witnesses to the flight of the Tippit killer, never interviewed.

If I'm not mistaken, Brewer may also have mentioned them and their affiliation with Big Blue during his testimony.

You'll have to recall, however, that even Brewer didn't know he was chasing an "assassin," just some guy he thought was acting funny; he apparently left them in the store since there was no apparent reason for him to ask them to come along with him. I seem to recall that he'd said that, when he returned to the store, they'd left and maybe even locked the door behind them.

It's possible if not probable that they came outside when police cars started showing up en masse to watch the commotion (elsewhere I've posted the names of all the officers - 40-something of them - who'd responded to the Oak Cliff shooting, most from Dealey Plaza. I've since learned that over 20 sheriff's units also responded, and it's possible that a number of deputy constables did as well since one of their stations was located at 12th & Beckley). What became of them and who they are is anyone's good guess: it doesn't seem that anybody's ever asked John Brewer.

What they might have been, if they'd seen what Brewer had noticed, are witnesses to Oswald's last free moments. There's no indication, however, that they ever saw Tippit's killer.

[Robert Howard]

And then there is this factoid to be considered.......

ADDITIONAL DATA CONCERNING TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY BUILDING AND C

Roy S Truly, Superintendent, Texas School Book Depository Building, advised that a jacket believed to be the property

of Lee Harvey Oswald was brought to him three or four days after November 22, 1963 by one of the company’s employees

whose name Truly could not recall.

He did recall that this employee told him the jacket had been found on a window ledge in the employee recreation room,

which is located in the north-east corner of the building on the first floor. The window where the jacket was found faces

north and the jacket was behind a one-foot railing which sets back from the window. Mr. Truly stated that he subsequently

turned the jacket over to an FBI for agent.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=8

So, let me get this straight. This document was buried in Oswald's 201 file and could have been made known immediately after the assassination. Well, to state the obvious, isn't that convenient.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Robert Howard

[Robert Howard]

Another issue that I have been asked about is the story about Ruby giving Oswald a pistol, this was related to three Mexican girls and the link is here.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=455

While I am uncommitted on the whole Ruby/Oswald affair in the context of the above, I obviously believe there is something to it in the overall big picture, and this document CD 205 is the, pardon my categorizing it in this manner, the bible of the Oswald/Ruby allegations.

Personally the following, is of more interest to me

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=385

CD 205 is not for the novice JFK Researcher, but does illustrate the nooks and cranny's that were prepared by Robert Gemberling himself.......

See Litchfield's polygraph as an example, and the identity of the man in the V-neck sweater, ostensibly ID' by Jack Ruby himself as being one Edward Rocco employed by Cabaret magazine. Captain Jones added that Cabaret magazine was published by Trans-American Export News, Skokie, Illinois.

To really get to a key area there is an allegation that there was a photo in the pages of Life Magazine, no less, of someone who appeared in a photo in Life magazine relating to a beatnik protest at Burk Burnett Gardens "four years ago," this would be ostensibly an issue of Life magazine with photos of same......Whether this is a lucrative area of research or a false trail is another story, either way I believe it should be checked out. Anybody care to follow up on this, that is familiar with Life Magazine cover photos and this topic in general. If there were something to it, it follows that the photo would not have to be a cover photo, but the Life magazine issue in question would obviously be from 1959 or 1960.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Robert Howard

[Robert Howard]

Another issue that I have been asked about is the story about Ruby giving Oswald a pistol, this was related to three Mexican girls and the link is here.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=455

While I am uncommitted on the whole Ruby/Oswald affair in the context of the above, I obviously believe there is something to it in the overall big picture, and this document CD 205 is the, pardon my categorizing it in this manner, the bible of the Oswald/Ruby allegations.

Personally the following, is of more interest to me

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=385

CD 205 is not for the novice JFK Researcher, but does illustrate the nooks and cranny's that were prepared by Robert Gemberling himself.......

See Litchfield's polygraph as an example, and the identity of the man in the V-neck sweater, ostensibly ID' by Jack Ruby himself as being one Edward Rocco employed by Cabaret magazine. Captain Jones added that Cabaret magazine was published by Trans-American Export News, Skokie, Illinois.

To really get to a key area there is an allegation that there was a photo in the pages of Life Magazine, no less, of someone who appeared in a photo in Life magazine relating to a beatnik protest at Burk Burnett Gardens "four years ago," this would be ostensibly an issue of Life magazine with photos of same......Whether this is a lucrative area of research or a false trail is another story, either way I believe it should be checked out. Anybody care to follow up on this, that is familiar with Life Magazine cover photos and this topic in general. If there were something to it, it follows that the photo would not have to be a cover photo, but the Life magazine issue in question would obviously be from 1959 or 1960.

As an example of what I consider a false lead in the pages of the Warren Report concerns the allegation about "Charlie" and a photo taken in Burk Burnett Gardens, while I would describe the story as minutae, in and of itself, the big picture is that there is a consistent pattern in some FBI documents, of false leads being given in which the latter is an example......

More

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Central Intelligence Agency/Oswald 201 File (201-289248)/Oswald 201 File, Vol 5/

Oswald 201 File, Vol 5, Part 2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=95621

During Charlie’s stay with the Kirkwood Jr.’s in Brownsville he was reported in possession of a walking stick, leather covered, to conceal a long steel sword blade which he got in Europe.

Kirkwood, Jr. has a Dallas-Ft. Worth reputation as the “daddy of beatniks.” He appeared about four years ago in Life Magazine’s coverage of a beatnik protest demonstration

at Burk Burnett Gardens, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Kirkwood, Jr. subsequent to the meeting in Brownsville with Charlie, opened in November 1962 at San Antonio, Texas opened a companion night club “The Cellar.”

Charlie helped him in this. “The Cellar”, San Antonio was later closed when it was declared off-limits by the Air Force

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=52

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=53

http://books.google.com/books?id=cVUEAAAAM...nik&f=false

In the March 7, 1960 issue of Life Magazine with a cover entitled, Hypnosis Cure To Mental Illness, there was an article entitled Politics: Beat In The Hip of Texas.

Fairly unusual, might be the idea of the beat generation having ersatz representatives in a city affectionately known as Cowtown, but it was there in black and white. Featuring the exploits of “Big Mike” Callaway, 23, and Peter “The Hero” Gill, 27. The two were photographed in downtown Fort Worth promoting their candidacy for two precinct chairmanships, with the Binyon O’Keefe building in the background, Callaway wearing a monk’s robe, and Peter Gill, looking like a Texas version of a prototypical beatnik. If Pat Kirkwood, Jr. was in the photo he must have been immaculately disguised as a 40-odd year businessman, walking by. (Seriously, he does not appear to be in the photo, another photo was of a young girl, a campaign worker taking a nap, she is referenced as Sam The Secret Weapon.

A few months later, in the June 27, 1960 issue of Life Magazine, there was a blurb appearing about beatniks in Greenwich Village at a club called Cafe Bizarre. In the section A Look at The World’s Week, the one photo contained, was from the Big Apple and not Burk Burnett Gardens. There was mention of a person in the photograph with Texas connections. His name and photo appeared underneath a caption entitled “Beat Protest Against Conformist Firemen,”

stated he had ran for Democratic precinct chairman in Fort Worth Texas. It is not known if Kirwood is in the photo

Regarding the names Callaway and Gill, the obvious names which come to mind are Callaway who was involved in the Tippet Murder aftermath, and W Fay Gill as well as Paul Gill who was in Tangier, Morocco, at the same time Thomas Eli Davis, III was arrested. The Paul Gill in Tangier was allegedly 35 years of age, while Peter Gill was 27........

END

Final Thought.......

Charlie may have been someone who never even existed instead of a mysterious figure who was seemingly implied to be connected with nefarious activities of the Kirkwood's.

I apologize for posting this on this topic thread, as this subject, Oswald's departure from the TSBD is definitely not a closed topic as evidenced by what Jim Douglass wrote about Weisberg's research into this area....

See JFK and The Unspeakable

Edited November 30, 2009 by Robert Howard

[Jack White]

There is no such thing as Burk Burnett GARDENS. Burk Burnett PARK is a municipal park

in downtown Fort Worth.

Jack