Help in correlating timing to z-frames

[Lee Forman]

I have been reveiwing the shadows of the men on the stairs. I also re-examined every film of the event - seeking additional coverage of the stairs - interesting how many of the films cut off before reaching this area. I have a GIF which I created quite some time ago of the Bond photos - centered on the stairs - it's interesting - but I cannot load it because it is in excess of the 2mb limit, and I can't cut it back. Maybe I will crop each photo and try again someday.

The purpose of making this theory public is with the same goal in mind as always - I am quite well aware of additional supressed material covering the event on 11/22 which has never been made public - I again implore anyone with additional photographic or film material of the event to consider it's release in 2008. I know that there were many good people associated with our Government in 1963 who simply carried out orders - whether because it seemed the right thing to do at the time, there was concern over career, pension, loss of life, etc. However, in hindsight - was it the correct thing to do? Are you not then guilty, after a complicit fashion, in the murder of the President; and logically then, responsible for assisting, indirectly, the expansion of mob related interests in the political spectrum, the insertion of ruthless and unscrupulous political power in the form of LBJ and his cronies, the rise of the war machine and thousands of innocent lives lost in the Vietnam conflict, and partial responsibility for things as they are today? Can you still justify the original position you took in 1963 without considering the consequences that followed? You're itching to act - so do it.

Even if the material you may have contains a signature - I urge you to make the move now, here 44 years after-the-fact, and put an end to it - even if it contains the inevitable risk factor - I am still asking you to consider it. History has a way of cleansing itself, and old wrongs become righted. Right it. And remain anonymous - just send me an email and let me know how to get the material - I commit to retain any identities. I am of course, most interested in any images which demonstrate the true nature of events as they took place in the area of the stairs - however, some of the real shots taken of the TSBD would make a nice second.

The purpose is to expose the truth. The medium is this forum.

Thanks in advance...

lforman23@comcast.net

[Lee Forman]

Simple close-up view from Muchmore. I have enhanced the shadows for Hudson and his 'Young Man.' Our awkward, transparent, and off-balance 'Phantom' is now making his move for his leap of faith to qualify for synch with the Nix film.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Did this one in early 2005 - was trying to enhance the frames as much as possible to follow the man running up the stairs in Nix. It's a shame that I probably cannot improve on it much. Very much would like to know if this guy goes down here.

I've heard from a few folks who have an interest in the JFK assassination, and like the forum. No clandestine material - just interested parties who have done their own research and digging - want to say thank you, and I am always open to sharing material and ideas. Bring it on and let's get 'er done folks.

- lee

lforman23@comcast.net

[Michael Crane]

I would be more then happy to help you Lee if I possibly could trust me,the problem is ...I`m just a apprentice among journeymen.

*I hope that I didn`t get your hopes up by responding to this thread. ( I know the feeling of hoping that someone has responded to one of my posts or letters)

[Lee Forman]

I would be more then happy to help you Lee if I possibly could trust me,the problem is ...I`m just a apprentice among journeymen.

*I hope that I didn`t get your hopes up by responding to this thread. ( I know the feeling of hoping that someone has responded to one of my posts or letters)

No worries Michael - No man is an Island. Actually, listening to Hex, Babylon is fallen, on their album Sleep when you're dead. Great stuff.

Babylon is Fallen (2)

Hail the day so long expected,

Hail the year of full release.

Zion's walls are now erected,

And her watchmen publish peace.

Through our Shiloh's wide dominion,

Hear the trumpet loudly roar,

Babylon is fallen to rise no more.

Let it be prophetic.

Well, just for the hell of it - here's a version with no effort at enhancement.

Have to admit, Miller's take on the individual seen along the trailing bottom of the z-frames [405 - 414] is looking like Hudson - just still puzzled as to why we never see the head of the young man appear as well. Maybe Bill has the answer there.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nix-Film-Analysis-Itek...1QQcmdZViewItem

Too pricey for me - but perhaps of interest to someone else. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the frames in high quality.

- lee

Nix Film Analysis, Itek Corporation, 18 May 1967, 8.5 x 11 inches, comb bound, 55 pages, photos, diagrams, fold out maps.

Cover shows slight normal wear and fading primarily around the edges. Inside pages are in excellent condition with no markings throughout. Original black plastic comb binding is in perfect condition. This is a good, clean copy.

This 1967 report details Itek’s technical analysis of the Orville Nix film taken at the time of the assassination of President Kennedy and was the first of three reports Itek prepared over the years on their work on the photographic evidence in the Kennedy assassination. This particular copy was one of the very last available copies from the Itek Corp library.

For the serious Kennedy assassination memorabilia collector. This is among one of the very rarest items in the Kennedy assassination literature. Don’t be fooled by reprints, this is an original printing.

For the serious researcher, a must-have! Extremely rare!

[Miles Scull]

For the serious researcher, a must-have! Extremely rare!

Lee,

Regarding Hudson & RSM in Z & BM's supposed "idea," see:

[Bill Miller]

Have to admit, Miller's take on the individual seen along the trailing bottom of the z-frames [405 - 414] is looking like Hudson - just still puzzled as to why we never see the head of the young man appear as well. Maybe Bill has the answer there.

- lee

The reason is that the man never came up high enough for Zapruder's pan to see him. All we see in the Zfilm is the back of Hudson's head and the red shirted man must have started getting down on the steps just as he goes out of view in the Nix film.

Bill

[Bill Miller]

Lee,

Regarding Hudson & RSM in Z & BM's supposed "idea," see:

What's not Kosher in Pickle-town is the lack of reasoning and common sense that ends up in some of the responses that make it onto these threads. How many seconds did it take for Jackie to rise out of the back seat ... is it your position that Jackie can rise from a sitting position faster than Hudson could lower himself to the ground ... if so - I rest my case!

And why didn't you have someone take a photo of Kathy standing at the Hudson location from Zapruder's pedestal as I did with Groden ... or would that have been too simple? Or maybe asked her to then get on the ground and have someone time it ... still too simple???

There are reasons why your concerns end with your responses ... anyone who has ever been to the plaza and considered these things was able to quickly figure them out.

Bill Miller

[Miles Scull]

Lee,

Regarding Hudson & RSM in Z & BM's supposed "idea," see:

What's not Kosher in Pickle-town is the lack of reasoning and common sense that ends up in some of the responses that make it onto these threads.

Bill Miller

What's not Kosher in Pickle-town is the lack of reasoning and common sense that ends up in some of the responses that make it onto these threads. - MILLER

By some you mean your own responses, of course.

You are correct.

Why?

The entire Z film sequence depicting events in Dealey Plaza consists of 486 frames, or 26.6 seconds.

Frame Z-413 is at 22 seconds into the film.

This is frame Z-413:

If this IS Hudson, and there is strong reason to doubt that it is, then Hudson is standing upright in this frame. Hudson has 4 seconds to fall to the ground & position himself so that he hears the third shot.

I think that you have forgotten that the limo is in high acceleration & in increasing acceleration as it approaches the underpass.

The limo is under the underpass at second 25.

Therefore, if Hudson reaches the ground in 2 seconds, then the third shot occurs when the limo is just entering the underpass.

This is as bad as resting a rifle barrel between the fence slats.

Conclusion: It is NOT Hudson!

Edit: grammar

Edited April 22, 2008 by Miles Scull

[Lee Forman]

Lee,

Regarding Hudson & RSM in Z & BM's supposed "idea," see:

What's not Kosher in Pickle-town is the lack of reasoning and common sense that ends up in some of the responses that make it onto these threads.

Bill Miller

What's not Kosher in Pickle-town is the lack of reasoning and common sense that ends up in some of the responses that make it onto these threads. - MILLER

By some you mean your own responses, of course.

You are correct.

Why?

The entire Z film sequence depicting events in Dealey Plaza consists of 486 frames, or 26.6 seconds.

Frame Z-413 is at 22 seconds into the film.

This is frame Z-413:

If this IS Hudson, and there is strong reason to doubt that it is, then Hudson is standing upright in this frame. Hudson has 4 seconds to fall to the ground & position himself so that he hears the third shot.

I think that you have forgotten that the limo is in high acceleration & in increasing acceleration as it approaches the underpass.

The limo is under the underpass at second 25.

Therefore, if Hudson reaches the ground in 2 seconds, then the third shot occurs when the limo is just entering the underpass.

This is as bad as resting a rifle barrel between the fence slats.

Conclusion: It is NOT Hudson!

Edit: grammar

Hi Miles.

There is of course an alternative - in which a shot was fired much later - and was heard among the 'three' shots heard by witnesses in this area. It's been called a 'parting shot' and even possible return fire. Sounds ridiculous - but I really couldn't say. I forget which witness it was that was puzzled by that final shot - which didn't appear to fit in.

Anyway - just a thought. Hudson didn't see the impact of that 'third' shot which sounded as if it came from over his head. And using Hoffman, a man that is deaf, to try to synch a puff of smoke and correlate it with one of three, or more, shots, is also a challenge.

I see Bill's point, but part of it is the angle the bothers me - Zapruder is at elevation looking down. I skipped over the stairs when I stood on the pedestal - darn! Anyway - assuming that the pool of blood was the result of 'shooting the shooter' - this is another possible explanation - but at that range, he should have dropped down dead like a stone - if it came from behind the fence.

Maybe next trip to Dallas I can get some of the vendors to play a game and pose for me.

- lee

[Chris Davidson]

I think that you have forgotten that the limo is in high acceleration & in increasing acceleration as it approaches the underpass.

Miles,

I believe the speed of the limo from frame 445-454 would be about 27.3 mph.

Using the light pole as a stationary marker, the limo travels it's length (estimated 20ft.) in these 9 frames.

chris

[Miles Scull]

I think that you have forgotten that the limo is in high acceleration & in increasing acceleration as it approaches the underpass.

Miles,

I believe the speed of the limo from frame 445-454 would be about 27.3 mph.

Using the light pole as a stationary marker, the limo travels it's length (estimated 20ft.) in these 9 frames.

chris

Chris,

Thanks for the great gif & calculations.

I believe the limo was picking up speed pretty good after Z-413 as acceleration progressed toward the underpass.

Lee,

Parting shot? I like it!

Miles

[Miles Scull]

Parting shot? I like it!

Here is an experiment that BM can try, but should not:

From a standing position on a sidewalk throw yourself onto grass adjacent to the sidewalk.

Have a friend with a stopwatch time the drop at 2 seconds & allow an additional second for recovery to enable hearing orientation.

So 3 seconds altogether.

Result: call for medical assistance.

[Bill Miller]

If this IS Hudson, and there is strong reason to doubt that it is, then Hudson is standing upright in this frame. Hudson has 4 seconds to fall to the ground & position himself so that he hears the third shot.

What a narrow sighted thing to say! (sigh~) Hudson goes out of view as Zapruder pans with the limo. You come up with these silly ideas based on trying to pick pepper out of flea dung in my opinion. How much thought have you given to the fact that Hudson was trying his best to recollect something from a moment of complete and utter shock and obvious distress. Let us say that Hudson was starting the process of moving towards getting down as the limo was passing through the underpass ... he recalled hearing another shot, which may or may not have been an actual gunshot. One reporter described the noise level just from the screams alone to sound like 25 choirs all going off at once and out of key. Hudson may not have gotten his recollection down to the precise film frame so to suit someone of your credentials, but I bet he was more accurate than anything you have come up with by this nonsense.

Bill Miller