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Zfilm Revisited-Sliced Frame 157


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This is a follow-up to my previous topic "Zfilm Revisited".

I believe that the slice/damage at frame 157 is suspect, leading into the aligned frames previously posted, I figured I'd try to recreate frame 157

into what we see from MPI.

Since Groden created a copy of an undamaged version of the original (???), I used frame 157 from that copy, for comparison against the MPI

damaged version of the original.

Damaged frame 157 appears to be a combination of frame 157 (bottom half of splice) and frame 155 (top half of splice).

The problems are indicated by the red arrows in the animation.

One arrow points to the movement of hands by the gentleman.

I have found no undamaged frames which shows his hands exposed and raised as they appear.

The next arrow points to the front tire of a car which is not present at the moment, in reality it is from a different frame than 155, yet their are 2 left front tires in the same frame.

The last arrow shows the incorrect placement of the motorcycle cops between frames. Fairly obvious.

Now, if you look at the 3 red arrowed objects as 1 unit or movement, it appears they could sync with each other, but from an entirely unknown

frame.

One other notation.

Before I recreated frame 157, I was somewhat puzzled by the alignment of Jackie's hat and the cycle cops between frames.

Now in the animation, her hat lines up between frames but the cycle cops are way off.

So, I'll be real interested to hear the process used for putting frame 157 back together after it was damaged.

In other words, MPI frame 157 is a combination of MORE than 2 frames, and quite possibly, added frames from the "actual original". imo

chris

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The only difference between these next two animations is the repositioning of the upper splice(above the limo) aligning people in the background.

When the background people are aligned, the cycle cops and Clint do not.

The other animation which shows background people mis-aligned, does show the cycle cops aligned. (close enough).

Jack, The ghost tire appears to be from frame 157.

So it appears damaged frame 157 was composited with at least frame 155.

My question would be:

If 155/157 (possibly more) were composited as 1 frame, why after moving the upper splice, is there not complete alignment among all objects?

At the moment, it appears that multiple slices are involved.

chris

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Sure Jack,

Try this one.

Take a look between the bottom 2 arrows also.

Looks like extra body shadows in the street, but no-one has moved between frames.

chris

One frame doesn't match the other. The still objects can be aligned with subtle differences, but the moving objects have advanced. The shadows seem to be fine to me. By the way, are the two frames being used from the same film source or have you created this gif from two different film copies??? If the latter is how I suspect it is ... the film ratios are not the same.

Edited by Bill Miller
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The only difference between these next two animations is the repositioning of the upper splice(above the limo) aligning people in the background.

When the background people are aligned, the cycle cops and Clint do not.

The other animation which shows background people mis-aligned, does show the cycle cops aligned. (close enough).

Jack, The ghost tire appears to be from frame 157.

So it appears damaged frame 157 was composited with at least frame 155.

My question would be:

If 155/157 (possibly more) were composited as 1 frame, why after moving the upper splice, is there not complete alignment among all objects?

At the moment, it appears that multiple slices are involved.

chris

Very interesting, Chris. I looked at it for 20 minutes, with my cursor placed

on certain places with results I have not yet figured. Using dots like I have

done to simulate a stationary cursor, please do another gif and watch the

dots dance around. Strange.

Thanks.

Jack

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The only difference between these next two animations is the repositioning of the upper splice(above the limo) aligning people in the background.

When the background people are aligned, the cycle cops and Clint do not.

The other animation which shows background people mis-aligned, does show the cycle cops aligned. (close enough).

Jack, The ghost tire appears to be from frame 157.

So it appears damaged frame 157 was composited with at least frame 155.

My question would be:

If 155/157 (possibly more) were composited as 1 frame, why after moving the upper splice, is there not complete alignment among all objects?

At the moment, it appears that multiple slices are involved.

chris

Very interesting, Chris. I looked at it for 20 minutes, with my cursor placed

on certain places with results I have not yet figured. Using dots like I have

done to simulate a stationary cursor, please do another gif and watch the

dots dance around. Strange.

Thanks.

Jack

Jack,

I think this is what you requested.

Can you do the same with the version in which I moved the top slice only, as this aligns the background people.

thanks

chris

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Sure Jack,

Try this one.

Take a look between the bottom 2 arrows also.

Looks like extra body shadows in the street, but no-one has moved between frames.

chris

One frame doesn't match the other. The still objects can be aligned with subtle differences, but the moving objects have advanced. The shadows seem to be fine to me. By the way, are the two frames being used from the same film source or have you created this gif from two different film copies??? If the latter is how I suspect it is ... the film ratios are not the same.

Bill,

The whole point is to compare the damaged frame with an undamaged frame and find out what was done.

Yes, they are two different frames.

Yes, there is a slight difference between them.

The bottom part of the frames when compared look good.

The top part (above the splice/black line) is the question.

In order to align the people in the TOP of the splice, I selected the whole top spliced portion and moved it over so the people would align.

In doing so, this causes the cops to mis-align.

***In the original damaged version, the cops line up with Grodens original without any frame manipulation by me.

That tells me that part of the original damaged frame above the splice is 157, the cops at least.

Also in the background (above the splice/black line), is part of frame 155, the white car for instance.

So where was and what did the splice consist of?

chris

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The only difference between these next two animations is the repositioning of the upper splice(above the limo) aligning people in the background.

When the background people are aligned, the cycle cops and Clint do not.

The other animation which shows background people mis-aligned, does show the cycle cops aligned. (close enough).

Jack, The ghost tire appears to be from frame 157.

So it appears damaged frame 157 was composited with at least frame 155.

My question would be:

If 155/157 (possibly more) were composited as 1 frame, why after moving the upper splice, is there not complete alignment among all objects?

At the moment, it appears that multiple slices are involved.

chris

Very interesting, Chris. I looked at it for 20 minutes, with my cursor placed

on certain places with results I have not yet figured. Using dots like I have

done to simulate a stationary cursor, please do another gif and watch the

dots dance around. Strange.

Thanks.

Jack

Jack,

I think this is what you requested.

Can you do the same with the version in which I moved the top slice only, as this aligns the background people.

thanks

chris

Remarkable, Chris...Only the two cops and Hill move. Everything else stays the same, fore and back.

I checked this using a stationary cursor. More later when I have time.

One anomaly noticed: a vertical line on the wall of the Records Bldg near Brennan...THERE IN ONE

FRAME, NOT IN THE OTHER. Do a gif of just that tiny corner of the frames.

Thanks.

Jack

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The only difference between these next two animations is the repositioning of the upper splice(above the limo) aligning people in the background.

When the background people are aligned, the cycle cops and Clint do not.

The other animation which shows background people mis-aligned, does show the cycle cops aligned. (close enough).

Jack, The ghost tire appears to be from frame 157.

So it appears damaged frame 157 was composited with at least frame 155.

My question would be:

If 155/157 (possibly more) were composited as 1 frame, why after moving the upper splice, is there not complete alignment among all objects?

At the moment, it appears that multiple slices are involved.

chris

Very interesting, Chris. I looked at it for 20 minutes, with my cursor placed

on certain places with results I have not yet figured. Using dots like I have

done to simulate a stationary cursor, please do another gif and watch the

dots dance around. Strange.

Thanks.

Jack

Jack,

I think this is what you requested.

Can you do the same with the version in which I moved the top slice only, as this aligns the background people.

thanks

chris

Remarkable, Chris...Only the two cops and Hill move. Everything else stays the same, fore and back.

I checked this using a stationary cursor. More later when I have time.

One anomaly noticed: a vertical line on the wall of the Records Bldg near Brennan...THERE IN ONE

FRAME, NOT IN THE OTHER. Do a gif of just that tiny corner of the frames.

Thanks.

Jack

Jack,

That vertical line looks like it was created when Groden duped his copies. Those lines are all over the place in multiple frames.

chris

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This animation shows the ghost wheel in frame 157 is actually from frame 158. Previously thought it was from 157.

Notice the matching black line shadow which runs through the bottom of the tire in both.

At this point it appears damaged (upper splice area) frame 157 consists of 3 frames minimum.

1.White car from frame 155

2.Cycle cops from frame 157

3.Ghost tire from frame 158

Still have the cycle cops alignment problem.

chris

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Next animation shows frame 155 (with top splice moved as a whole unit, to align background people) aligned with original frame 157.

This is the closest fit so far.

Since these are 2 frames apart, cars/people in motion should move forward.

Problem:

The cars move, the cycle cops move, Clint does not move and neither does Jackie's hat.

It would appear that these elements are from 2 different frames.

Since I moved the top splice as 1 unit, how do elements apparently within the same frame, not move accordingly?

chris

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Next animation shows frame 155 (with top splice moved as a whole unit, to align background people) aligned with original frame 157.

This is the closest fit so far.

Since these are 2 frames apart, cars/people in motion should move forward.

Problem:

The cars move, the cycle cops move, Clint does not move and neither does Jackie's hat.

It would appear that these elements are from 2 different frames.

Since I moved the top splice as 1 unit, how do elements apparently within the same frame, not move accordingly?

chris

Noteworthy is the DROP DOWN of the ghost wheel in relation to Clint Hill.

Jack

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Jack,

Thanks for re-emphasizing that aspect.

That ghost wheel position, when aligned with the same people in the background, matches frame 158. (previous animation)

So it appears that Clint and the cycle cops do not sync on the same splice of film, and the ghost tire is also from a completely different frame.

Once again, at least 3 different frames involved.

chris

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Bill,

The whole point is to compare the damaged frame with an undamaged frame and find out what was done.

Groden has copies of the Zapruder film without the damage, thus anyone can see it. What appears to have been done is that the film was broken ... the missing frame stretched, thus cut out completely and then the frame before and after were overlaid and stuck together. Good thing that Zapruder had the smarts to have copies made of his film.

Food for thought: Had Zapruder of been part of an alteration conspiracy, then making three copies from the undamaged original on the day of the assassination seems like it would not have been a wise decision. If anything, Zapruder prevented the opportunity for altering the film or even losing it for that matter by him keeping a copy for himself.

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