New Discovery Channel Program on JFK Limo

[Bernice Moore]

Pamela would you publish the part of the White House Garage log showing that Arlington glass replaced the glass on November 25, as you stated in your posting and that the Ferguson memo claims.

Below is the Ferguson statement where he does relate that date......

But within the SS W/H Garge log, the closest that comes to such, but with No Date, mentioned is on page 2...

See below......also...

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=10482

B.....

Edited, for spelling.

***********************

Well will you have a look....I did find it, and the FBI states that the Arlington Glass replaced the windshield on page 4, on........

Nov.26th.........not the 25th as Pamela re the Ferguson statement states.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=4

B..........

[Bernice Moore]

Another oddity,

Interesting that Rowley's memo on page 4 of CD 80, refers to the Ferguson memo that is dated December 1st, 1963.

The memo we have is dated December 18 th, 1963.

Was there a December 1st memo that had to be corrected (if so, sloppily) on December 18 th. ?

Also, in a chronology of the limo prepared by the HSCA, it refers to testimony by Mr. Ferguson.

I cannot find any testimony by him.

Where is that testimony.....??

B.......

Edited July 8, 2008 by Bernice Moore

[Dawn Meredith]

Bill, any evidentiary value of the mobile crime scene better known as SS-100-X was lost on Monday, November 25, 1963 when the limo was taken to Hess & Eisenhardt in Cincinnati and was essentially stripped. So while it IS a crime scene, it is one in name only since that date.

Kinda like Elm Street in Dallas after repaving and curb restriping.

Agreed. But wonder if any of the men who worked on refurbishing it are still alive to bear witness to what they saw and had to 'repair'?! I'd almost be willing to bet they had to take secrecy oaths or have been just plain threatened to keep their mouths shut....but one never knows...after all this time....

for more info concerning the Limo see: Murder in Dealey Plaza, Part II, The Kennedy Limousine pgs. 120-159, by Douglas Weldon, J.S.

**************

Doug Weldon : TMWKK The Final Chapter, ep.1.The Smoking Gun, seg 2

Limo information begins with Dr.2 minutes ..Dr.Galanges......54 seconds into the video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAW-bxxZfcM

The Limo Windshield, Bullet from Front

Limo to Detroit, Part I

TMWKK, The Final Chapter, ep.1 The Smoking Gun, seg.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMXfBgjsh0...feature=related

JFK Assassination, Presidential limo SS-100-X, part 5

B.......

Thanks Bernice for posting TMWKK segments. I recall that someone posted all these utube showings of the three censored hours. Could someone please repost them. I am recently in contact with the son of an old friend who is very interested in all things conspiracy and I would like to email them to him.

Many thanks,

Dawn

[Pamela Brown]

Chapter 16 in CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave-Macmillan 2001, "SS-100-X", which I wrote, gives additional information on the limousine as well as information from and about Nick Prencipe and Vaughn Ferguson.

Section four of the SPEED channel documentary on SS-100-X at Youtube contains an interview with Catherine Ferguson, Vaughn's widow, and me:

[Pamela Brown]

'Bill Miller' date='Jul 7 2008, 01:47 PM'

I am curious about this alleging that the Zapruder film made it to the movie theater within the a month of the shooting. There were press films that were shown in theaters, but they only had the Nix and Muchmore films on them. I hope I didn't miss it, but could you post what town or theater this played in again? And could it be that you are misremembering the time frame?

I watched the Zapruder film in a theater in the Lower East Side of Manhattan in December, 1964, not '63.

[Pamela Brown]

I beg to differ about it looking like any other limousine, especially with the roof texture and general configuration. There were very few Lincoln limos on the roads back then, especially ones with fabric covering the roof. Add to that the exposure it got after the assassination and I think it would be very recognizable. I'm actually surprised they didn't fly it up there. Of course, nothing about this case surprises me anymore.

The script seemed to be to minimize everything about the limo. We're not supposed to think of it as the scene of the crime, but just as any old car. Even the damage was minimized.

Since the car was used mainly in low-speed driving...very low in some cases, I'm thinking that the ride to Parkland was probably the first time it was really opened up. I've driven enough cars of that vintage (I currently own a 1961 Oldsmobile Super 88) to know that when driven slowly over a long period, they sometimes carbon up, or the 2 extra barrels on the carburetors get gunked up. I know that sometimes my Olds will almost stall if I suddenly hit the gas. I'm wondering if when Greer hit the gas pedal, it might have hesitated, and slowed down almost to a stop before finally catching and accelerating away. It could explain the sudden slowdown at the moment of the head shot.

The limo was equipped with a special fuel pump to prevent it from vapor locking during slow moving parades on hot days. I would hope that if Greer felt it did bog, that he would have said something to that effect.

[Pamela Brown]

There is no congruity between Whitaker's account and Ferguson so how could he rework anything into his account and for what purpose? He never mentioned anything to anyone but his family and he insisted on anonymity so what purpose would there be to do this? Who are these other employees that have attempted to appropriate Ferguson's statements? Can you name one and give an account?.

Yes, the points of incongruity are significant, as they indicate that Mr. Whittaker seemed to have bits and pieces of information that don't really make sense and don't agree with Vaughn Ferguson's statements.

Mr. Whittaker has no documentation connecting him to the limo. He had never seen it before. He had not worked on it, nor accompanied it anywhere. Without anything connecting him to the limo in the first place, those pushing his statements ought to have vetted them before rushing to bring them to the research community.

The subject of who Whittaker spoke to and when is something that is difficult to prove. Hindsight is perfect. Rumours about the limo started on 11.22.63. The limo is documented to have arrived in Dearborn a few weeks later.

One of the FMC employees who tells a similar story is a man named Charlie who says he saw the limo at the Experimental Garage in Dearborn two days after the assassination. It is here that the limo would have gone, and in fact, did go in December, 1963, not the Rouge, as Mr. Whittaker says.

The limo was in Dearborn at the Experimental Garage a few weeks after the assassination, in December, 1963, to be gutted down to metal and rebuilt by Hess & Eisenhardt. Any information regarding this event would have spread like wildfire, in that the FMC employees knew, if the govt did not, that the limo was the scene of the crime. The significant number of limo sightings is an indication to me of people's sincere desire to get to the root of the crime.

[Pamela Brown]

Bernice Moore' Jul 7 2008, 07:00 PM'

From post # 25........

Quote B: "The Ferguson memo states that the windshield was removed and stored in a closet and not seen again. Yet there are accounts of people seeing the windshield after that date..... The analysis and fallacy of that memo is also in his chapter in MIDP...."

How could Ferguson account for the whereabouts of the windshield in his memo for any time subsequent to the writing of the memo?Ferguson is simply reporting what he witnessed.

"Quote :Pamela: You might want to start doing your own research. The Ferguson memo states no such thing. ".....Here is the exact quote from Ferguson's Dec. 18 memo after describing that the windshield had been removed on Nov. 25:"A Mr. Davis of the Secret Service then took the windshield and put it in the stockroom under lock and key and I have not seen it since."

Apologies. I misread your statement to think that you were claiming Ferguson had stated something about the whereabouts of the windshield after the date of his memo.

[i]Also noted later is that Kelllerman examined the damaged windshield on November 27, allegedly a short time before the windshield was replaced

(and two days after Ferguson said it was locked away.) [/i]

Ferguson was not in charge of the windshield. He reported what he had witnessed.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Pamela McElwain-Brown

[Pamela Brown]

[quote name='Bernice Moore' date='Jul 7 2008, 07:18 PM' post='149254']

From post # 25........Re Nick Prencipe.....

Quote Pamela: "Weldon encouraged Stavis Ellis to move the location of the hole he thought he saw upwards, and for Nick Prencipe to 'forget' the location of the hole he saw after he had already provided a location for it. "

Quote B:......"There was only One witness who recalled seeing the hole a bit lower in the windshield, than the other witnesses, and that was Stavis Ellis...Doug notes this information in his chapter in "Murder In Dealey Plaza"...and he offers an explanation..He does not gloss anything over.....Doug spoke to Stavis hundreds of times..

Stavis was only certain that there was a bullethole and admitted his recollection as to the exact location could have been flawed...

QUOTE ON

Some of the jockeys around the car were saying, "Looky here!" What they were looking at was the windshield. To the right of where the drive was, just bove the metal near the bottom of the glass there appeared to be a bullet hole.

QUOTE OFF

No More Silence, Stavis Ellis, p147

Ellis' forgetfulness was a byproduct of his interactions with Weldon. How convenient.

In Nick's interview with me he gave a position for the hole he thought he saw. In his subsequent interview with Weldon he could not recall a location.

[David G. Healy]

[quote name='Bernice Moore' date='Jul 7 2008, 07:18 PM' post='149254']

From post # 25........Re Nick Prencipe.....

Quote Pamela: "Weldon encouraged Stavis Ellis to move the location of the hole he thought he saw upwards, and for Nick Prencipe to 'forget' the location of the hole he saw after he had already provided a location for it. "

Quote B:......"There was only One witness who recalled seeing the hole a bit lower in the windshield, than the other witnesses, and that was Stavis Ellis...Doug notes this information in his chapter in "Murder In Dealey Plaza"...and he offers an explanation..He does not gloss anything over.....Doug spoke to Stavis hundreds of times..

Stavis was only certain that there was a bullethole and admitted his recollection as to the exact location could have been flawed...

QUOTE ON

Some of the jockeys around the car were saying, "Looky here!" What they were looking at was the windshield. To the right of where the drive was, just bove the metal near the bottom of the glass there appeared to be a bullet hole.

QUOTE OFF

No More Silence, Stavis Ellis, p147

Ellis' forgetfulness was a byproduct of his interactions with Weldon. How convenient.

In Nick's interview with me he gave a position for the hole he thought he saw. In his subsequent interview with Weldon he could not recall a location.

Nick "thought" he saw? This the same Nick Prencipe that belonged to JFKResearch up to the time he died? Washington D.C. cop? Who also knew SA Greer, this the same guy your talking about? And so we get this right, did you interview Nick or did he interview you? When and where did this interview take place?

Thanks

[Pamela Brown]

David G. Healy' date='Jul 15 2008, 03:08 AM'

Pamela said:

In Nick's interview with me he gave a position for the hole he thought he saw. In his subsequent interview with Weldon he could not recall a location.

Nick "thought" he saw? This the same Nick Prencipe that belonged to JFKResearch up to the time he died? Washington D.C. cop? Who also knew SA Greer, this the same guy your talking about? And so we get this right, did you interview Nick or did he interview you? When and where did this interview take place?

Thanks

I interviewed Nick Prencipe by phone in March of 2000.

[Bernice Moore]

David G. Healy' date='Jul 15 2008, 03:08 AM'

Quote :Pamela said:

In Nick's interview with me he gave a position for the hole he thought he saw. In his subsequent interview with Weldon he could not recall a location.

Nick "thought" he saw? This the same Nick Prencipe that belonged to JFKResearch up to the time he died? Washington D.C. cop? Who also knew SA Greer, this the same guy your talking about? And so we get this right, did you interview Nick or did he interview you? When and where did this interview take place?

Thanks

Pamela Quote : I interviewed Nick Prencipe by phone in March of 2000.

*************************

From: NPRINCE9@juno.com

To: pamelam@xxxxxxxxx

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:06:01 -0400

Subject: Re: reply

Message-ID: <20000707.080612.-3697521.1.NPRINCE9@juno.com>

Pam

I try to be as helpful as I can, but I am a bit upset at some of the

choice of words I note from time to time. When you state that you will

follow up and see what makes sense, I dont follow this line of thinking.

I knew the limo when I saw it, I sure saw it many times and even sat in

it. There was someone else in the process of lifing the tarp from its

partially lifted position, as I recall. And I did see a bullet hole, so

if there was a bullet hole, or damage to another one of the cars, there

is a new track to follow.

I do not remember what time I got home that night, or the next morning, I

have no idea what time it was.

My interest in ALL available facts in this are similar to others, I weigh

whatever I see, hear or read for my own judgements, something I have been

doing for the most part of my 84 years.

I was not aware that you were writing a book on this. so I can wait for

some the queries I made.

Regards

NICK

B......

[Jack White]

Thanks for the Nick message, Bernice. Do you have any more? I have

no doubt that he told it like it was...not like someone else's "interpretation."

Jack

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela Quote : I interviewed Nick Prencipe by phone in March of 2000.

From: NPRINCE9@juno.com

To: pamelam@xxxxxxxxx

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:06:01 -0400

Subject: Re: reply

Message-ID: <20000707.080612.-3697521.1.NPRINCE9@juno.com>

Pam

I try to be as helpful as I can, but I am a bit upset at some of the

choice of words I note from time to time. When you state that you will

follow up and see what makes sense, I dont follow this line of thinking.

I knew the limo when I saw it, I sure saw it many times and even sat in

it. There was someone else in the process of lifing the tarp from its

partially lifted position, as I recall. And I did see a bullet hole, so

if there was a bullet hole, or damage to another one of the cars, there

is a new track to follow.

I do not remember what time I got home that night, or the next morning, I

have no idea what time it was.

My interest in ALL available facts in this are similar to others, I weigh

whatever I see, hear or read for my own judgements, something I have been

doing for the most part of my 84 years.

I was not aware that you were writing a book on this. so I can wait for

some the queries I made.

Regards

NICK

Thank you for posting a copy of this email from Nick. Mine were lost in a pc crash. As you can see, I was asking for details that might give an idea as to what time he went to the WHG, who was there, and facts that might be corroborated by other information.

He recalled seeing Greer that evening, yet according to existing information at this point, nobody saw Greer leave Bethesda during the evening. He also recalled walking in and pulling up the tarp on the limo without anyone questioning him, whereas the SS claimed that there were people around the car all evening. He also provided me with a location of low on the left side. He later said he couldn't recall the location. When one does not have all the answers it makes more sense to provide the information available and allow others to weigh and evaluate it. Eventually, the missing pieces may appear.

I was not asked to write a chapter on SS-100-X for CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave, 2001, until after I had interviewed Nick. I explained when I interviewed him that I would communicate with him about using information from the interview in a research paper or anything at the level of the press. So I sent him a draft of the chapter for his input. This email was in response to that.

[Bernice Moore]

Pamela Quote : I interviewed Nick Prencipe by phone in March of 2000.

From: NPRINCE9@juno.com

To: pamelam@xxxxxxxxx

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:06:01 -0400

Subject: Re: reply

Message-ID: <20000707.080612.-3697521.1.NPRINCE9@juno.com>

Pam

I try to be as helpful as I can, but I am a bit upset at some of the

choice of words I note from time to time. When you state that you will

follow up and see what makes sense, I dont follow this line of thinking.

I knew the limo when I saw it, I sure saw it many times and even sat in

it. There was someone else in the process of lifing the tarp from its

partially lifted position, as I recall. And I did see a bullet hole, so

if there was a bullet hole, or damage to another one of the cars, there

is a new track to follow.

I do not remember what time I got home that night, or the next morning, I

have no idea what time it was.

My interest in ALL available facts in this are similar to others, I weigh

whatever I see, hear or read for my own judgements, something I have been

doing for the most part of my 84 years.

I was not aware that you were writing a book on this. so I can wait for

some the queries I made.

Regards

NICK [/i]

Thank you for posting a copy of this email from Nick. Mine were lost in a pc crash. As you can see, I was asking for details that might give an idea as to what time he went to the WHG, who was there, and facts that might be corroborated by other information.

He recalled seeing Greer that evening, yet according to existing information at this point, nobody saw Greer leave Bethesda during the evening. He also recalled walking in and pulling up the tarp on the limo without anyone questioning him, whereas the SS claimed that there were people around the car all evening. He also provided me with a location of low on the left side. He later said he couldn't recall the location. When one does not have all the answers it makes more sense to provide the information available and allow others to weigh and evaluate it. Eventually, the missing pieces may appear.

I was not asked to write a chapter on SS-100-X for CAR CRASH CULTURE, Palgrave, 2001, until after I had interviewed Nick. I explained when I interviewed him that I would communicate with him about using information from the interview in a research paper or anything at the level of the press. So I sent him a draft of the chapter for his input. This email was in response to that.

**********************

What you have left out is that you were trying to coerce Nick Principe into saying he saw a hole in another vehicle, not the limo...

...Actually the hole was on the left side....What existing info on Greer ?.........Was someone following him around recording his movements.....?

Nick knew Greer and saw him...

From: NPRINCE9@juno.com

To: pamel

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:18:41 -0400

Subject: Re: QUESTION

Message-ID: <20000703.072039.-3702699.0.NPRINCE9@juno.com>

Pam

I will answer this in several parts

First of all --If I had not been on duty--you can bet that I would have

been on my way home.

I was at the command post all evening and was in contact with my excort

men at Andrews AFB--I was aware of every thing that was taking

place--from that distance--it was only in ref to what my boys were doing.

During the period that I was there--and this was not too long after the

plane had brought the family back, I noticed Bill standing in the

street--west executive ave--only about 50-60 feet or so from me. I went

to him and we shook hands and thats when he made his statement to me.

I resumed my activity and I heard the transmissions re the escort of the

limo to the garage. Later--and I cant pin it down to any specific

minute, I went to the garage--it was not that far away. There were still

some people around and I just walked in--nobody stopped me or paid any

attention to me--all those guys in the SS and State dept. etc knew me and

were used to me being in many places at many times.

From the best of my rec. there was someone else interested in seeing that

w shield and we saw it together and

there WAS a hole in it..................

Nick

B...

Edited July 23, 2008 by Bernice Moore