Running Man

[Jack White]

Are assumptions always valid?

Most here have assumed that the black man and the woman with baby are TOGETHER.

Is that a valid assumption? Why? Only this one film sequence shows them together.

Is it valid to assume that they had been sitting on the bench eating lunch? Who did

the stenographer's notebook belong to? Why assume that two people threw soft drink

bottles to the sidewalk? Or is the proximity of the man and woman just a coincidence?

Is it any more reasonable to assume that TWO BLACK WOMEN (A& WITH SMALL KIDS

came to the plaza together to see the president? No, probably a coincidence.

Jack

Edited October 20, 2008 by Jack White

[Robin Unger]

Robin,

Frame is from video footage in "Beyond the Magic Bullet" at 21 min/33 sec.

Note center frame.

It was filmed through a car windshield.

chris

Thanks Chris.

Great frame !

I can't help noticing how much "darker" the womans sweater looks in that frame compared to Darnell.

I have seen some of that footage before somewhere, but never with such clarity.

Great stuff, and "good eyes" do you have any more frames in that quality which you could email me.

Robin.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Hi Jack

There are many variables:

Were the Darnell man and woman a couple. ?

There is no way of knowing, they may be complete strangers, they may be brother and sister, who knows, i certainly don't.

When tracking down this 40-year old mystery we all make assumptions every day.

Some leads pan out, some don't.

I'm a fence sitter jack, i have been for about 5-years on the forums.

Hell, am willing to give up my pre- conceived idea's at the drop of a hat, if i am presented with evidence that prove my original idea is

incorrect.

My moto is, leave your EGO at the door, be willing to admit when you have made a mistake, and then move on.

Robin.

[Jack White]

Hi Jack

There are many variables:

Were the Darnell man and woman a couple. ?

There is no way of knowing, they may be complete strangers, they may be brother and sister, who knows, i certainly don't.

When tracking down this 40-year old mystery we all make assumptions every day.

Some leads pan out, some don't.

I'm a fence sitter jack, i have been for about 5-years on the forums.

Hell, am willing to give up my pre- conceived idea's at the drop of a hat, if i am presented with evidence that prove my original idea is

incorrect.

My moto is, leave your EGO at the door, be willing to admit when you have made a mistake, and then move on.

Robin.

Robin...my post was not aimed at you...just at random to anyone letting assumptions

become thought to be facts.

I have great admiration for your sharing of your great collection of important images!

Assumptions are necessary in pursuing possible areas of study. But assumptions must

be proven to become facts.

Many years ago I learned a Navy saying..."DON'T ASSUME A GODDAM THING. THE

WORD MAKES AN ASS OF YOU AND ME....ASS-U-ME."

Thanks.

Jack

Edited October 20, 2008 by Jack White

[Robin Unger]

Hi Jack

There are many variables:

Were the Darnell man and woman a couple. ?

There is no way of knowing, they may be complete strangers, they may be brother and sister, who knows, i certainly don't.

When tracking down this 40-year old mystery we all make assumptions every day.

Some leads pan out, some don't.

I'm a fence sitter jack, i have been for about 5-years on the forums.

Hell, am willing to give up my pre- conceived idea's at the drop of a hat, if i am presented with evidence that prove my original idea is

incorrect.

My moto is, leave your EGO at the door, be willing to admit when you have made a mistake, and then move on.

Robin.

Robin...my post was not aimed at you...just at random to anyone letting assumptions

become thought to be facts.

I have great admiration for your sharing of your great collection of important images!

Assumptions are necessary in pursuing possible areas of study. But assumptions must

be proven to become facts.

Many years ago I learned a Navy saying..."DON'T ASSUME A GODDAM THING. THE

WORD MAKES AN ASS OF YOU AND ME....ASS-U-ME."

Thanks.

Jack

Thanks Jack.

Yes i did realise that your post was not directed at me personally, but at participants to this thread in general.

But thank you for making the Clarification.

Robin.

[Bernice Moore]

Hi Jack

There are many variables:

Were the Darnell man and woman a couple. ?

There is no way of knowing, they may be complete strangers, they may be brother and sister, who knows, i certainly don't.

When tracking down this 40-year old mystery we all make assumptions every day.

Some leads pan out, some don't.

I'm a fence sitter jack, i have been for about 5-years on the forums.

Hell, am willing to give up my pre- conceived idea's at the drop of a hat, if i am presented with evidence that prove my original idea is

incorrect.

My moto is, leave your EGO at the door, be willing to admit when you have made a mistake, and then move on.

Robin.

*********************

Hi Robin:

Thanks for the Willis # 5, I do see the fence line to the left running down from the direction of the overpass, and to the right, the division of it, behind the

BDMN, whatever.....will spent more time with it.....ta...

....I did wonder if the man had perhaps a jacket or some such tied around his waist as the weather had warmed up, but ??

As for what is in his hand, could be many things...?? No idea......

""I'm a fence sitter jack, i have been for about 5-years on the forums.

Hell, am willing to give up my pre- conceived idea's at the drop of a hat, if i am presented with evidence that prove my original idea is

incorrect.""

I think most of the times, the majority do fence sit, and there is nothing wrong in doing so..if that is what one chooses...

But I cannot quite understand your next comment, .......hey bear with me, it is Monday..

Isn't that like putting the cart before the horse.....??

In general, anyone, say having a pre-conceived idea, before researching and studying the evidence, documentation etc,

that is available....beforehand...

Though I do realize that there is always hopefully, after availing oneself of such to perhaps present

information, that does and or did not compy within said information..which can bring about new findings...

In otherwards, why should anyone throw out a "thinkie" as I call them, followed by, and there are always some,who do jump

on the band wagon immediately and say Tally Ho, good find or some such, and buy into whatever........without having availed

themseles of studies..

But then the originator of the thought may hopefully ( with fingers crossed ) be expecting , others to come along ,present the

information and prove the thinkie in error........But if not,

then that could and has at times, been accessed by others as well, as say newbies, who then take it as written in stone, and thereby confusing

the, what is known, all the more.....

I think that imo does not make sense and is bass ackwards......and I cannot see it.......But then as I just said it is Monday....

Whatever way one chooses to participate, is welcome, whether simply a reader, a now and again contributor, or a drop in the hat comment..

if it brings to the surface a group effort, it does take a village, then imo that is more and than worth the effort....and again many thanks for the sharing of your scans..

Now then I have one for all....going by the cart before the horse....

Say I had a pre-conceived idea that there was no black couple on the bench during the assassination, now prove to me there was....and that is an impossible task....it imo is the complete reverse of what it should be....

Should it not have been,........ Was there a black couple on the bench during the assassination..??...I for one, have never been able to prove a negative....

This has been a very good thread, and again I thank all......

Just some thoughts......

P.S.........I thought it was something like, "Check your ego at the door, and do not p........in the potted palm on your way out......

For now.....

B......

[Chris Davidson]

Robin,

Frame is from video footage in "Beyond the Magic Bullet" at 21 min/33 sec.

Note center frame.

It was filmed through a car windshield.

chris

Thanks Chris.

Great frame !

I can't help noticing how much "darker" the womans sweater looks in that frame compared to Darnell.

I have seen some of that footage before somewhere, but never with such clarity.

Great stuff, and "good eyes" do you have any more frames in that quality which you could email me.

Robin.

Robin,

You can download the movie clip here:

http://76.89.77.141:8400/5A4E1/1.mov

I tried sending you an email but got a rejection notice. Might be an old address.

chris

[Robin Unger]

Hi Bernice.

I'll try to explain my comment.

Lets say i am looking to confirm the presence of an assassination witness who say's that he or she was in a "certain area of Dealey Plaza" on the day of the assassination.

After doing all the research, reading everything i could find on the subject, going over every image i could find covering my special research topic.

After looking through all the images i could find taken that day, and finding no sign of the person i am looking for, in the area where they said they were standing at the time the motorcade went past.

Then i would form a pre-conceived idea that the person was not in the area were they said they were on the day of the assassination.

Then at a later date an image turns up showing that the person was indeed in that area just as they said they were.

Or, another eye witness comes forward to corroborate the persons story, saying that he or she was indeed there at the time of the assassination, even though they were not captured in any of the photo or film images taken on the day.

If that were to happen, i would then drop my pre-concieved idea that the person was spinning a yarn to get his or her 15-minutes of fame.

and whole hartedly exept there story as correct and truthfull in every aspect.

You see bernice i am basically a synich at heart, wrong or right, that's the way i work.

And i'm getting too old to change my ways now.

This has trasgrest from the main theme of this thread, but i hope it answers your question.

[Robin Unger]

Robin,

Frame is from video footage in "Beyond the Magic Bullet" at 21 min/33 sec.

Note center frame.

It was filmed through a car windshield.

chris

Thanks Chris.

Great frame !

I can't help noticing how much "darker" the womans sweater looks in that frame compared to Darnell.

I have seen some of that footage before somewhere, but never with such clarity.

Great stuff, and "good eyes" do you have any more frames in that quality which you could email me.

Robin.

Robin,

You can download the movie clip here:

http://76.89.77.141:8400/5A4E1/1.mov

I tried sending you an email but got a rejection notice. Might be an old address.

chris

Thanks Chris.

I was watching a bit if it on Grodens DVD ( JFK Conspiracy " The Case " ) last night but the quality of the frames is very poor.

i could only just make out the Darnell woman and child.

The frames from your movie like this frame below are far superior to any thing i have seen before.

Thanks again.

My Email:

quaneeri2@yahoo.com

Edited October 21, 2008 by Robin Unger

[Bernice Moore]

Hi Bernice.

I'll try to explain my comment.

Lets say i am looking to confirm the presence of an assassination witness who say's that he or she was in a "certain area of Dealey Plaza" on the day of the assassination.

After doing all the research, reading everything i could find on the subject, going over every image i could find covering my special research topic.

After looking through all the images i could find taken that day, and finding no sign of the person i am looking for, in the area where they said they were standing at the time the motorcade went past.

Then i would form a pre-conceived idea that the person was not in the area were they said they were on the day of the assassination.

Then at a later date an image turns up showing that the person was indeed in that area just as they said they were.

Or, another eye witness comes forward to corroborate the persons story, saying that he or she was indeed there at the time of the assassination, even though they were not captured in any of the photo or film images taken on the day.

If that were to happen, i would then drop my pre-concieved idea that the person was spinning a yarn to get his or her 15-minutes of fame.

and whole hartedly exept there story as correct and truthfull in every aspect.

You see bernice i am basically a synich at heart, wrong or right, that's the way i work.

And i'm getting too old to change my ways now.

This has trasgrest from the main theme of this thread, but i hope it answers your question.

Thank you Robin,

That is much clearer.......

I think the theme of the thread needed clarification somewhat.....

To quote Jack ""just at random to anyone letting assumptions

become thought to be facts."" which I thought was well put....

So you are a ""synich at heart"".......I am a Doubting Thomasina...

Though I do give the said witnesses the benefit of the doubt,

as so much of the information was changed and destroyed, as well you know...

I also try make an effort to post some of that information I have researched, along with those doubts.

Though I shall admit if a late comer, and or the story changes drastically, along the way, and or grows out of

proportions, etc...without verification.....then I do not accept such readily, on anyones say so....If shown that

whomever is found out to be and has lied, then the gong sounds....

As Dr. Fetzer says "Do not believe anything in this, Not even

me, do your own research " and that I do believe....

We may be close to being on the same page.....

Appreciated....

Now in the second frame you have posted, above, in which the stripes are shown on the sides of her "pedal pushers" slacks,

and are very clear.......I think it can be seen somewhat in your original posted photo......I also notice the same two woman with

small children are again, in the same area...as Jack has pointed out....previously.....

For now,

Take care.......B.....

Edited October 21, 2008 by Bernice Moore

[Jack White]

Bernice...in that frame her upper body is not twisted. But when I

enhance it, then it does appear twisted. It is really an oddity I

do not understand. I am attaching an enhancement to try to

understand the image better.

After looking for a long time, I decided that the white cap of

the kid contributes to the illusion by obscuring her right shoulder.

Also, is the darnellman wearing WHITE SHOES? Otherwise

again I see no feet.

Jack

PS...note that the man at left is in the blackdogman location.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Jack White

[Bernice Moore]

Bernice...in that frame her upper body is not twisted. But when I

enhance it, then it does appear twisted. It is really an oddity I

do not understand.

After looking for a long time, I decided that the white cap of

the kid contributes to the illusion by obscuring her right shoulder.

Also, is the darnellman wearing WHITE SHOES? Otherwise

again I see no feet.

Jack

She is a contortionist......The longer I look at any I have found her within, the less clearer she

is, but then they are not very clear frames, and yet some people within are and others not.

Just a thought, but could it be ?as the people moved, the film showed them blurred, I do not

know about film cameras..

Below is the footedman....within a few of the other frames, I cannot find her.....?? Though she may

be in front of whomever.

Here is the original the first frame Darnell that Robin posted on page 1......The no feet man.....

Then the one much smaller I found within a folder showing he has feet, and a small gif of them.

B.......

Edited October 21, 2008 by Bernice Moore

[Mark Haley]

Looking at the start of the animated, gif does any one else see a man in a long light jacket appear to embrace the woman or the baby ? They both seem to move towards each other.

Moving on, in the 1st photo, I find it helpful to presume that the 'face' of the woman that appears to be looking to the left of the photo is probably someone else stood just behind her. To me she becomes much less contorted and seems to be glancing towards 'no feet' man over her right shoulder.

Regarding the issue of 'no feet', he's not the only person in the images whose limbs are affected by the motion of the film.

The man in the hat looking down seems to lose his fingers and the woman walking from left to right with a child appears to lose her right foot. It suggest to me that elements of the images are just 'bleeding' into each other.

[Steve Thomas]

Robin,

Bernice.

I have looked over every inch of that Murray scan, and i don't see the Darnell Man.

It's a bit of a worry, because if they are a couple, you would expect to see them together in that image.

I think (stress think) that the man went into the RR yards, and she went to the front of the TSBD.

I have looked for him in the Hughes film, but haven't spotted him yet.

Steve Thomas

[Robin Unger]

Robin,

Bernice.

I have looked over every inch of that Murray scan, and i don't see the Darnell Man.

It's a bit of a worry, because if they are a couple, you would expect to see them together in that image.

I think (stress think) that the man went into the RR yards, and she went to the front of the TSBD.

I have looked for him in the Hughes film, but haven't spotted him yet.

Steve Thomas

Hi Steve.

If the "Darnell Man" was the "Running Man" from the top of the steps.

Another possibility, is that while his companion wife / sister /friend ? was mingling with the crowd.

Dallas police were rounding up witnesses

He may have been "spotted bolting from the steps at the time of the assassination"and taken in to Police Headquarters for questioning.

Not sure if they started rounding up witnesses immediately after the assassination, or that was does later in the day. ?

Edited October 21, 2008 by Robin Unger