Allen Dulles question

[John Kelin]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the source of the oft-quoted remark attributed to Allen Dulles, "But nobody reads..." ?

I have asked other forums and no one seems to know.

Paraphrasing, the full statement, in the context of publishing the WC material, is along the lines of, "But nobody reads. Oh, a few academics will read it, but that's about all..."

My apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere.

John Kelin

[John Simkin]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the source of the oft-quoted remark attributed to Allen Dulles, "But nobody reads..." ?

I have asked other forums and no one seems to know.

Paraphrasing, the full statement, in the context of publishing the WC material, is along the lines of, "But nobody reads. Oh, a few academics will read it, but that's about all..."

My apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere.

John Kelin

This website claims it was said by Allen Dulles, Warren Commission meeting , July 9, 1964:

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...php/t42959.html

This website says: "But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record... the public will read very little. - Allen Dulles, 7-9-64."

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tom.blackwell/

[John Kelin]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the source of the oft-quoted remark attributed to Allen Dulles, "But nobody reads..." ?

I have asked other forums and no one seems to know.

Paraphrasing, the full statement, in the context of publishing the WC material, is along the lines of, "But nobody reads. Oh, a few academics will read it, but that's about all..."

My apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere.

John Kelin

This website claims it was said by Allen Dulles, Warren Commission meeting , July 9, 1964:

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...php/t42959.html

This website says: "But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record... the public will read very little. - Allen Dulles, 7-9-64."

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tom.blackwell/

Thanks for the reply, John.

The problem is, this is just a web site containing the quote we're all familiar with. The date helps. But this particular meeting, which I'm guessing was an Executive Session, isn't in the "Document Addendum to the Warren Report" or a Lancer CD that has most of the stuff in the Document Addendum.

Has anyone seen a transcript of this July 9 session? I guess I"ll try the NARA web site.

John

[Royce Bierma]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the source of the oft-quoted remark attributed to Allen Dulles, "But nobody reads..." ?

I have asked other forums and no one seems to know.

Paraphrasing, the full statement, in the context of publishing the WC material, is along the lines of, "But nobody reads. Oh, a few academics will read it, but that's about all..."

My apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere.

John Kelin

This website claims it was said by Allen Dulles, Warren Commission meeting , July 9, 1964:

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...php/t42959.html

This website says: "But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record... the public will read very little. - Allen Dulles, 7-9-64."

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tom.blackwell/

Thanks for the reply, John.

The problem is, this is just a web site containing the quote we're all familiar with. The date helps. But this particular meeting, which I'm guessing was an Executive Session, isn't in the "Document Addendum to the Warren Report" or a Lancer CD that has most of the stuff in the Document Addendum.

Has anyone seen a transcript of this July 9 session? I guess I"ll try the NARA web site.

John

John, as far as I know, there is no July 9 Executive Session. But possibly this is the source of the statement: Allen Dulles, Warren Commission member, fired by JFK as CIA Director:

"But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record...The public will read very little."

(September 6, 1964, Warren Commission internal memo)-per Martin Shackelford

Roy Bierma

[John Kelin]

John, as far as I know, there is no July 9 Executive Session. But possibly this is the source of the statement: Allen Dulles, Warren Commission member, fired by JFK as CIA Director:

"But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record...The public will read very little."

(September 6, 1964, Warren Commission internal memo)-per Martin Shackelford

Roy Bierma

Thanks for your reply.

If I'm not mistaken, I posed this same question about Dulles to another JFK forum some years back, and Martin gave me the same answer.

Obviously, Dulles's statement, or alleged statement, is one of those that has a lot of potential weight attached to it. And it troubles me that I've never seen a source for it.

In a similar vein, I looked a long time for the JFK quote about splintering the CIA into a thousand pieces -- finally found it in a 1966 New York Times article. As I recall, it was unattributed, which likewise makes me uneasy.

Both quotes may well be accurate, but without proper sourcing start seeming more like urban myths.

[Royce Bierma]

John, as far as I know, there is no July 9 Executive Session. But possibly this is the source of the statement: Allen Dulles, Warren Commission member, fired by JFK as CIA Director:

"But nobody reads. Don't believe people read in this country. There will be a few professors that will read the record...The public will read very little."

(September 6, 1964, Warren Commission internal memo)-per Martin Shackelford

Roy Bierma

Thanks for your reply.

If I'm not mistaken, I posed this same question about Dulles to another JFK forum some years back, and Martin gave me the same answer.

Obviously, Dulles's statement, or alleged statement, is one of those that has a lot of potential weight attached to it. And it troubles me that I've never seen a source for it.

In a similar vein, I looked a long time for the JFK quote about splintering the CIA into a thousand pieces -- finally found it in a 1966 New York Times article. As I recall, it was unattributed, which likewise makes me uneasy.

Both quotes may well be accurate, but without proper sourcing start seeming more like urban myths.

John, I agree with you. The fact that there seem to be two attributions, one 7-9-63, and the other one 9-6-64. I wasn't satisfied with the sources for the remarks either, so after I posted I continued my search. The "internal memo" origin didn't seem right, because after Dulles makes his remarks, Albert Jenner responds. This would seem then to come from some sort of executive session. But it must have been a private session, with only a small portion made public. After going through 20 pages of Google results, I still haven't found anything other than many persons quoting each other on 7-9-63, and the Martin Shackelford sourcing, with one person quoting him. Perhaps there is a JFK book which gives a source for it. This is annoying.

Take care,

Roy Bierma

[Steve Thomas]

Roy,

John, I agree with you. The fact that there seem to be two attributions, one 7-9-63, and the other one 9-6-64. I wasn't satisfied with the sources for the remarks either, so after I posted I continued my search. The "internal memo" origin didn't seem right, because after Dulles makes his remarks, Albert Jenner responds. This would seem then to come from some sort of executive session.

Can you find a way to sort the Warren Commission sessions by date?

Because, at least going by the Mary Ferrell site, there was no Executive Session on July 9th. They jump from June 23rd to September 18th.

In volume 15 of the Hearings, the timing of interviews seems to jump from the testimony of Seth Kantor and William Crowe taken on June 2nd to the testimony of Dallas Police officers like Will Fritz, Charles Batchelor, Jesse Curry and Cecil Talbert taken on the days of July 13th and 14th.

Steve Thomas

[William Kelly]

I know that John Judge uses that quote a lot, and went to some of the text of his talks on line and found that he says that Dulles said to publish the records and Americans don't read anyway in a conversation with fellow Warren Commissioner Hale Boggs.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:icFce...;cd=3&gl=us

In Vince Palamara's archive (Thanks Vince), he has John Judge at the American U conference in which he says,

"....I think from my own work, I have read the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission….You know Alan Dulles, when he was asked about releasing the evidenceby Hale Boggs, replied, "Go ahead and print it, nobody will read it anyway."

And unfortunate, especially now, in this post-literate generation, Stone's film is about the only thing that will reach youth. There are a few of us who read still, but as you know, the FBI is trying to get our names from the library. (Laughter)

Googling Allen Dulles and Hale Boggs I came up with a very valuable and underutilzed resource:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKboggs.htm

which goes into detail on Boggs but doesn't mention the Allen Dulles/Hale Boggs conversation that Judge alludes to.

John, if you didn't find that answer to this question yet, I would think that if you look closer at Boggs you might come up with something.

BK

[Royce Bierma]

I know that John Judge uses that quote a lot, and went to some of the text of his talks on line and found that he says that Dulles said to publish the records and Americans don't read anyway in a conversation with fellow Warren Commissioner Hale Boggs.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:icFce...;cd=3&gl=us

In Vince Palamara's archive (Thanks Vince), he has John Judge at the American U conference in which he says,

"....I think from my own work, I have read the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission….You know Alan Dulles, when he was asked about releasing the evidenceby Hale Boggs, replied, "Go ahead and print it, nobody will read it anyway."

And unfortunate, especially now, in this post-literate generation, Stone's film is about the only thing that will reach youth. There are a few of us who read still, but as you know, the FBI is trying to get our names from the library. (Laughter)

Googling Allen Dulles and Hale Boggs I came up with a very valuable and underutilzed resource:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKboggs.htm

which goes into detail on Boggs but doesn't mention the Allen Dulles/Hale Boggs conversation that Judge alludes to.

John, if you didn't find that answer to this question yet, I would think that if you look closer at Boggs you might come up with something.

BK

Bill, thanks for the suggestion that Boggs was also in on the conversation. But it wasn't a dialogue. As I mentioned above, Albert Jenner spoke just after Dulles. So if Hale Boggs was also at this session, there were at least two commissioners present, and one senior counsel. What remains a mystery to me is why this exchange including the Dulles remark does not have a better reference than what we have found so far. I guess we'll have to keep looking, or look for something else and find it by accident.

Roy Bierma

[John Simkin]

In Vince Palamara's archive (Thanks Vince), he has John Judge at the American U conference in which he says,

"....I think from my own work, I have read the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission….You know Alan Dulles, when he was asked about releasing the evidenceby Hale Boggs, replied, "Go ahead and print it, nobody will read it anyway."

And unfortunate, especially now, in this post-literate generation, Stone's film is about the only thing that will reach youth. There are a few of us who read still, but as you know, the FBI is trying to get our names from the library. (Laughter)

Googling Allen Dulles and Hale Boggs I came up with a very valuable and underutilzed resource:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKboggs.htm

which goes into detail on Boggs but doesn't mention the Allen Dulles/Hale Boggs conversation that Judge alludes to.

John, if you didn't find that answer to this question yet, I would think that if you look closer at Boggs you might come up with something.

BK

I do now.

Nick Begich, who represented Alaska in the House of Representatives, was also killed with Hale Boggs. Both Boggs and Begich were re-elected that November. Begich won with 56% to Don Young's 44%. However, after Begich's declared death, a special election was called which was won by Young.

The Los Angeles Star, on November 22, 1973, reported that before his death Boggs claimed he had "startling revelations" on Watergate and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. In the Robert Ludlum novel, The Matarese Circle, Boggs was killed to stop his investigation of the Kennedy assassination.

However, some people, including several of Begich's children, have suggested that Richard Nixon had a hand in Boggs' death in order to thwart the Watergate investigation.