US attacks on Syria, Pakistan

[Mark Stapleton]

The bombing of Syria was clearly an act of war.

John, the attack on Americans whereever they are is an act of war. The Americans are responding to their being attacked.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Geez Bill.

Americans should ask themselves how they would react if any country bombed their territory.

Nobody bombed anybody. We're talking about the helicopter attack on the al Quada coordinator in Syria and the taking of two prisoners.

Er, yes, somebody bombed somebody. It was an aerial bombardment from helicopters. Eight dead from most reports.

Lucky for the world (and Obama) the Syria did not declare war on the United States.

John, do you refuse to read or believe this report that the attack had the green light from Syrian Intelligence?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Syria-Helicopter-Attack-Carried-Out-By-US-With-Knowledge-Of-Syrian-Intelligence-Says-Ronen-Bergman/Article/200810415130766?lpos=World_News_Top_Stories_Header_1&lid=ARTICLE_15130766_Syria_Helicopter_Attack_Carried_Ou

Can't speak for John, but I wouldn't believe a bloody thing I see on SkyNews (especially when they're getting their info from 'Ísraeli spokesmen'. And I think Syria would have been fully justified in declaring war on the US.

Yea, he's a Lame Duck President with all the power in the world and no one to account for what he does. That may be scarry, but I'm going to kind of miss him, as I like having real bad guys in power - like LBJ, Nixon and Bush, so its easier to be against the government.

So I guess that makes you a McCain supporter then, Bill.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=...40-ef3ac16a42b5

On Sunday, U.S. helicopters accompanied by a special forces team struck in Sukkariyeh, Syria, just over the border from Iraq. It was a raid with enormous implications for the war in Iraq and the broader war on terror. The target of the raid was a man named Badran Turki Hishan al-Mazidih, better known in his circles as Abu Ghadiya. Since 2004, intelligence officials have been targeting Abu Ghadiya for his pernicious role in Iraq: helping fuel the Sunni insurgency by transporting foreign fighters, money, and weapons. Never before had Americans struck within Syria with such visible fingerprints. But officials believe that killing Abu Ghadiya justified that kind of action. One military official told me that the elimination of Abu Ghadiya represents a significant triumph over al Qaeda in Iraq. "The organization is pretty much finished now," he told me.

That is a big story. But it doesn't begin to capture the magnitude of the strike in Sukkariyeh. We have entered a new phase in the war on terror. In July, according to three administration sources, the Bush administration formally gave the military new power to strike terrorist safe havens outside of Iraq and Afghanistan. Before then, a military strike in a country like Syria or Pakistan would have required President Bush's personal approval. Now, those kinds of strikes in the region can occur at the discretion of the incoming commander of Central Command (Centcomm), General David Petraeus. One intelligence source described the order as institutionalizing the "Chicago Way," an allusion to Sean Connery's famous soliloquy about bringing a gun to a knife fight.

The new order could pave the way for direct action in Kenya, Mali, Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen--all places where the American intelligence believe al Qaeda has a significant presence, but can no longer count on the indigenous security services to act. In the parlance of the Cold War, Petraeus will now have the authority to fight a regional "dirty war." When queried about the order from July, deputy spokesman for the National Security Council Ben Chang offered no comment.

Bring on the war crimes trials.

[William Kelly]

Boy, oh boy, is the United States lucky Syria didn't declare war against them.

And I really question the concept of "helicopter bombardment" as I don't think it happened.

The reports from the scene that I read said that a number of helicopters landed, targeted a single home, killed some people and took two out with them.

A reporter who arrived the next day saw the building and talked with women who said the men who were killed were hard working sunup tll sunday guys, and they didn't know anything about Abu al-Ghadia, the guy the US say they were looking for and killed.

But he's been reported killed before too.

And Jordan, the country, has convicted this guy and sentenced him to death inabstensia, so I guess they owe USA a favor on that one.

Now Mark, and John, how would you like Abu al-Gadia as your dentist?

Here's a more detailed report on the operation, conducted by Task Force 88, a British SAS/US Navy SEAL unit.

So, since they were British in on the attack, should Syria declare war on England too?

And why is the US Treasury Dept. releasing official info on this?

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/200..._in_syria_d.php

Now it seems that Task Force 88 isn't even a dedicated American unit, but is a milti-national one that is made up primarily of British SAS and American SEALS.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-...sk-force-black/

Following the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, 2003 it has been reported that an SAS Squadron has been assigned to a joint US/UK group of Special Operations units operating in the country, known previously as Task Force 145 (TF-145).

Now reportedly renamed to TF-88, this cream of Western Special Operators consists of several elements:

• TF Black - - made up of an SAS sabre squadron, supported by a Company of SFSG (TF Maroon). Some SBS operators are thought to be attached to TF Black.
  
• TF Blue - US Navy SEALs from DEVGRU (Seal Team 6)
  
• TF Green - 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - or 'Delta Force'
  
• TF Orange - signals intelligence gathers from the ISA
  

The primary role of TF-88 is to hunt down senior members of Al-Qaeda operating in Iraq. To this end, the Task Force has had several successes including the killing of Al-Zarqawi. In response to a spate of kidnappings involving Westerners, TF-88's remit expanded to include countering this threat.

TF-Black is based in headquarters known as 'the Station', within Baghdad's green zone.\

Task Force Black Operations:

• In July 2003, an SAS team performed a close target reconnaisance of a residence in Mosul, thought to contain Uday and Qusay Hussein, Saddam's sons. British commanders pushed for the SAS to raid the house but are denied. A combined force of US Delta Force and the 101st Airborne eventually attacked the building and killed Uday and Qusay.
  
• Operation Marlborogh
  In July 2005 an SAS sniper team neutralized an insurgent suicide bomb squad before they could reach their targets in the city.
  
• In March 2006, in a bloodless operation, the SAS rescued British peace campaigner, Norman Kember, and 2 Canadians who had been kidnapped in Baghdad
  read more : SAS rescue Norman Kember
  
• September 5th, 2007 - A 30-man SAS team assaulted a house that intel had pinpointed as the location of a senior Al-Qaeda figure. The mission was a success but sadly it costs the life of one of the SAS assaulters.
  

As with its other commitments such as counter-terrorism and training, the SAS rotates a Squadron into Task Force Black on a 6-monthly basis.

Here's more:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2461368.ece

Here's a profile of the innocent civilian fdentist from a few years ago:

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/ar...ticleid=2370052

Abu al-Ghadia to Build on al-Zarqawi's Legacy in Iraq

By Sami Moubayed

Very little is known about one of the late-Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's top operatives, Abu al-Ghadia al-Soori (or sometimes known as Abu al-Ghadia al-Shami). Some refer to his real name as Sulayman Khalid Darwish. There is no photograph of Abu al-Ghadia, and not a single interview with him. No one in Syria will confess to having met him, not even classmates who had graduated from Damascus University Dentistry School with him in the 1990s. Arab newspapers ran a story in July 2005 saying that he had been killed in a U.S. air strike (as part of Operation Spear) in the al-Qaim village, near the Syrian-Iraqi border; Iraqi TV, however, said that he had been killed in the Sunni Anbar province. Nothing was revealed about him back then, except that he was al-Zarqawi's right-hand man. Both stories appeared to be false, however, as his name resurfaced after al-Zarqawi's June 7 death and word spread that he was a candidate for becoming the new "al-Qaeda prince in Iraq."

The bits and pieces that are known about Abu al-Ghadia reveal that he was born in Syria in 1976 and raised in the suburbs of Damascus. The influential Arabic website, Middle East Transparent (http://www.metransparent.com), claims that he carries two Syrian passport numbers, #11012 and #3936712 (metransparent.com, July 25, 2005). According to the website, he lived in the vicinity of Damascus, leading an ordinary life until going to Afghanistan to join al-Qaeda in the 1990s. Too young to have been active in the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, which went to war against the government of Syria when he was six years-old in 1982, Abu al-Ghadia was influenced by their teachings. No evidence points to exactly why Abu al-Ghadia abandoned Syria and went to Afghanistan in the 1990s. As a dentist, he should have been able to secure a good income in Syria. Yet, the attractiveness of jihad and the promises of martyrdom probably influenced the young Islamist. He served as one of the main intelligence commanders under al-Zarqawi in Iraq, and is a member of the Mujahideen Shura Council, a coalition of Sunni insurgent groups. He is a co-founder of Jund al-Sham and the Tawhid and Jihad Group in Iraq.

Abu al-Ghadia became close to al-Zarqawi after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Their relationship had been cemented in Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks. According to Mohammed Makkawi, known by the war name Sayf al-Adl (Sword of Justice), Abu Musab and Abu al-Ghadia became good friends at a training camp in Afghanistan, occupied by 42 Arab families, three of which were Syrian (metransparent.com, testimony of Mohammed Makkawi on May 29, 2005). Al-Zarqawi took Abu al-Ghadia under his wing, personally training him in the use of firearms and explosives. He also took lessons in topography and electronics. He received further training in the Palestinian Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp in Lebanon, becoming a master of document fraud. From hereon, al-Zarqawi relied on him to secure fake passports for jihadists traveling around the world. The young Syrian had accompanied al-Zarqawi to Jordan where he introduced al-Ghadia to a Jordanian woman. They married and moved to Iraq to join al-Zarqawi after 2003 (al-Arabiya, June 8). Shortly afterwards, his name emerged as one of the terrorists whose property in the United States, if any, was frozen by the U.S. government.

Abu al-Ghadia also worked as al-Zarqawi's moneyman in Iraq (metransparent.com, July 25, 2005). He is said to have channeled $10,000-$12,000 to al-Zarqawi every 20-25 days. This money came from Islamic sources in the Arab world. In 2004, Abu al-Ghadia was charged with building bridges with "Arab Afghans" who had fought with Osama bin Laden against the Soviets in the 1980s. Many had been dispersed after the war in Afghanistan, and Abu al-Ghadia was asked to find them and recruit them to work with al-Zarqawi in Iraq.

In February, Jordan sentenced Abu al-Ghadia to death in absentia. He, like al-Zarqawi, was found guilty of planning chemical attacks in Amman. Among other things, both al-Ghadia and al-Zarqawi wanted to target Jordanian intelligence services and the U.S. Embassy in Jordan in April 2004. Abu al-Ghadia was sentenced for sending money to al-Zarqawi and recruiting and training members of al-Qaeda in Iraq (al-Jazeera, May 24, 2004). Another Syrian, Anas Sameer al-Sheikh (19 years-old), was arrested and also sentenced to death. He is believed to have been recruited into al-Qaeda by Abu al-Ghadia. Jordanian TV had interviewed some of the terrorists, and one confessed to having received funds, fake passports and arms from al-Ghadia, who charged him with setting up an arms factory on the Iraqi side of the Syrian-Iraqi border. These activities show that despite the death of al-Zarqawi, al-Ghadia will continue to work with al-Qaeda and build on al-Zarqawi's legacy in Iraq.

Edited October 31, 2008 by William Kelly

[Mark Stapleton]

Boy, oh boy, is the United States lucky Syria didn't declare war against them.

Typical hubris coming from a nation which refuses to recognise that anyone else has rights except themselves. We have the firepower--we do whatever we want.

Now Mark, and John, how would you like Abu al-Gadia as your dentist?

Actually I do need a bit of work done, but I guess it's a bit late to make an appointment.

Here's a more detailed report on the operation, conducted by Task Force 88.

And why is the US Treasury Dept. releasing official info on this?

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/200..._in_syria_d.php

Now it seems that Task Force 88 isn't even a dedicated American unit, but is a milti-national one that is made up primarily of British SAS and American SEALS.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-...sk-force-black/

Following the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, 2003 it has been reported that an SAS Squadron has been assigned to a joint US/UK group of Special Operations units operating in the country, known previously as Task Force 145 (TF-145).

Now reportedly renamed to TF-88, this cream of Western Special Operators consists of several elements:

• TF Black - - made up of an SAS sabre squadron, supported by a Company of SFSG (TF Maroon). Some SBS operators are thought to be attached to TF Black.
  
• TF Blue - US Navy SEALs from DEVGRU (Seal Team 6)
  
• TF Green - 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - or 'Delta Force'
  
• TF Orange - signals intelligence gathers from the ISA
  

The primary role of TF-88 is to hunt down senior members of Al-Qaeda operating in Iraq. To this end, the Task Force has had several successes including the killing of Al-Zarqawi. In response to a spate of kidnappings involving Westerners, TF-88's remit expanded to include countering this threat.

TF-Black is based in headquarters known as 'the Station', within Baghdad's green zone.\

Task Force Black Operations:

• In July 2003, an SAS team performed a close target reconnaisance of a residence in Mosul, thought to contain Uday and Qusay Hussein, Saddam's sons. British commanders pushed for the SAS to raid the house but are denied. A combined force of US Delta Force and the 101st Airborne eventually attacked the building and killed Uday and Qusay.
  
• Operation Marlborogh
  In July 2005 an SAS sniper team neutralized an insurgent suicide bomb squad before they could reach their targets in the city.
  
• In March 2006, in a bloodless operation, the SAS rescued British peace campaigner, Norman Kember, and 2 Canadians who had been kidnapped in Baghdad
  read more : SAS rescue Norman Kember
  
• September 5th, 2007 - A 30-man SAS team assaulted a house that intel had pinpointed as the location of a senior Al-Qaeda figure. The mission was a success but sadly it costs the life of one of the SAS assaulters.
  

As with its other commitments such as counter-terrorism and training, the SAS rotates a Squadron into Task Force Black on a 6-monthly basis.

Here's more:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2461368.ece

Here's a profile of the innocent civilian fdentist from a few years ago:

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/ar...ticleid=2370052

Abu al-Ghadia to Build on al-Zarqawi's Legacy in Iraq

By Sami Moubayed

Very little is known about one of the late-Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's top operatives, Abu al-Ghadia al-Soori (or sometimes known as Abu al-Ghadia al-Shami). Some refer to his real name as Sulayman Khalid Darwish. There is no photograph of Abu al-Ghadia, and not a single interview with him. No one in Syria will confess to having met him, not even classmates who had graduated from Damascus University Dentistry School with him in the 1990s. Arab newspapers ran a story in July 2005 saying that he had been killed in a U.S. air strike (as part of Operation Spear) in the al-Qaim village, near the Syrian-Iraqi border; Iraqi TV, however, said that he had been killed in the Sunni Anbar province. Nothing was revealed about him back then, except that he was al-Zarqawi's right-hand man. Both stories appeared to be false, however, as his name resurfaced after al-Zarqawi's June 7 death and word spread that he was a candidate for becoming the new "al-Qaeda prince in Iraq."

The bits and pieces that are known about Abu al-Ghadia reveal that he was born in Syria in 1976 and raised in the suburbs of Damascus. The influential Arabic website, Middle East Transparent (http://www.metransparent.com), claims that he carries two Syrian passport numbers, #11012 and #3936712 (metransparent.com, July 25, 2005). According to the website, he lived in the vicinity of Damascus, leading an ordinary life until going to Afghanistan to join al-Qaeda in the 1990s. Too young to have been active in the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, which went to war against the government of Syria when he was six years-old in 1982, Abu al-Ghadia was influenced by their teachings. No evidence points to exactly why Abu al-Ghadia abandoned Syria and went to Afghanistan in the 1990s. As a dentist, he should have been able to secure a good income in Syria. Yet, the attractiveness of jihad and the promises of martyrdom probably influenced the young Islamist. He served as one of the main intelligence commanders under al-Zarqawi in Iraq, and is a member of the Mujahideen Shura Council, a coalition of Sunni insurgent groups. He is a co-founder of Jund al-Sham and the Tawhid and Jihad Group in Iraq.

Abu al-Ghadia became close to al-Zarqawi after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Their relationship had been cemented in Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks. According to Mohammed Makkawi, known by the war name Sayf al-Adl (Sword of Justice), Abu Musab and Abu al-Ghadia became good friends at a training camp in Afghanistan, occupied by 42 Arab families, three of which were Syrian (metransparent.com, testimony of Mohammed Makkawi on May 29, 2005). Al-Zarqawi took Abu al-Ghadia under his wing, personally training him in the use of firearms and explosives. He also took lessons in topography and electronics. He received further training in the Palestinian Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp in Lebanon, becoming a master of document fraud. From hereon, al-Zarqawi relied on him to secure fake passports for jihadists traveling around the world. The young Syrian had accompanied al-Zarqawi to Jordan where he introduced al-Ghadia to a Jordanian woman. They married and moved to Iraq to join al-Zarqawi after 2003 (al-Arabiya, June 8). Shortly afterwards, his name emerged as one of the terrorists whose property in the United States, if any, was frozen by the U.S. government.

Abu al-Ghadia also worked as al-Zarqawi's moneyman in Iraq (metransparent.com, July 25, 2005). He is said to have channeled $10,000-$12,000 to al-Zarqawi every 20-25 days. This money came from Islamic sources in the Arab world. In 2004, Abu al-Ghadia was charged with building bridges with "Arab Afghans" who had fought with Osama bin Laden against the Soviets in the 1980s. Many had been dispersed after the war in Afghanistan, and Abu al-Ghadia was asked to find them and recruit them to work with al-Zarqawi in Iraq.

In February, Jordan sentenced Abu al-Ghadia to death in absentia. He, like al-Zarqawi, was found guilty of planning chemical attacks in Amman. Among other things, both al-Ghadia and al-Zarqawi wanted to target Jordanian intelligence services and the U.S. Embassy in Jordan in April 2004. Abu al-Ghadia was sentenced for sending money to al-Zarqawi and recruiting and training members of al-Qaeda in Iraq (al-Jazeera, May 24, 2004). Another Syrian, Anas Sameer al-Sheikh (19 years-old), was arrested and also sentenced to death. He is believed to have been recruited into al-Qaeda by Abu al-Ghadia. Jordanian TV had interviewed some of the terrorists, and one confessed to having received funds, fake passports and arms from al-Ghadia, who charged him with setting up an arms factory on the Iraqi side of the Syrian-Iraqi border. These activities show that despite the death of al-Zarqawi, al-Ghadia will continue to work with al-Qaeda and build on al-Zarqawi's legacy in Iraq.

I can see that you and I have a fundamental disagreement on this, Bill. Abu al-Ghadia obviously had form and terrorism is a poor career choice but I see people like him as largely a product of America's own making. When he was growing up, how many times did he witness members of his own and extended family being killed by Israeli or American attacks? Which brings me to the central point (one you have yet to address)--it doesn't matter how many al-Ghadia's or bin-Laden's you kill because more will always spring up.

TF-88 can pat themselves on the back, go back to Headquarters for de-briefing and cocktails, and boast to the world about the great job they've done. But while America remains an occupying force, while it murders innocents in pursuit of the guilty, while it supports the brutal repression of Palestine, the multi-headed Hydra will just grow another head to replace guys like al-Ghadia.

It locks in an eternal conflict but apparently many Americans have too much crude hubris to see or give a dam. And you also can't afford it any more---America's broke, remember?

You need to see Team America, twice.

[Ron Ecker]

while America remains an occupying force, while it murders innocents in pursuit of the guilty, while it supports the brutal repression of Palestine, the multi-headed Hydra will just grow another head to replace guys like al-Ghadia.

That's the whole point, Mark. That's the beauty of the "war on terror" for the MIC. The U.S. government has finally found an inexhaustible enemy. There's no Berlin Wall to fall, no Soviet Union to collapse. The MIC has an enemy now that will last as long as the American taxpayer can sustain the war. But with the economic meltdown, that may not be much longer, if Americans are to continue having things like running water and electricity. When life in America gets primitive enough, the people may lose their taste for Pax Americana in far off lands. I'm not sure what the MIC does then, but it obviously doesn't worry about it now.

[William Kelly]

Boy, oh boy, is the United States lucky Syria didn't declare war against them.

Typical hubris coming from a nation which refuses to recognise that anyone else has rights except themselves. We have the firepower--we do whatever we want.

Now Mark, and John, how would you like Abu al-Gadia as your dentist?

Actually I do need a bit of work done, but I guess it's a bit late to make an appointment.

Here's a more detailed report on the operation, conducted by Task Force 88.

And why is the US Treasury Dept. releasing official info on this?

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/200..._in_syria_d.php

Now it seems that Task Force 88 isn't even a dedicated American unit, but is a milti-national one that is made up primarily of British SAS and American SEALS.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-...sk-force-black/

Following the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, 2003 it has been reported that an SAS Squadron has been assigned to a joint US/UK group of Special Operations units operating in the country, known previously as Task Force 145 (TF-145).

Now reportedly renamed to TF-88, this cream of Western Special Operators consists of several elements:

• TF Black - - made up of an SAS sabre squadron, supported by a Company of SFSG (TF Maroon). Some SBS operators are thought to be attached to TF Black.
  
• TF Blue - US Navy SEALs from DEVGRU (Seal Team 6)
  
• TF Green - 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - or 'Delta Force'
  
• TF Orange - signals intelligence gathers from the ISA
  

The primary role of TF-88 is to hunt down senior members of Al-Qaeda operating in Iraq. To this end, the Task Force has had several successes including the killing of Al-Zarqawi. In response to a spate of kidnappings involving Westerners, TF-88's remit expanded to include countering this threat.

TF-Black is based in headquarters known as 'the Station', within Baghdad's green zone.\

Task Force Black Operations:

• In July 2003, an SAS team performed a close target reconnaisance of a residence in Mosul, thought to contain Uday and Qusay Hussein, Saddam's sons. British commanders pushed for the SAS to raid the house but are denied. A combined force of US Delta Force and the 101st Airborne eventually attacked the building and killed Uday and Qusay.
  
• Operation Marlborogh
  In July 2005 an SAS sniper team neutralized an insurgent suicide bomb squad before they could reach their targets in the city.
  
• In March 2006, in a bloodless operation, the SAS rescued British peace campaigner, Norman Kember, and 2 Canadians who had been kidnapped in Baghdad
  read more : SAS rescue Norman Kember
  
• September 5th, 2007 - A 30-man SAS team assaulted a house that intel had pinpointed as the location of a senior Al-Qaeda figure. The mission was a success but sadly it costs the life of one of the SAS assaulters.
  

As with its other commitments such as counter-terrorism and training, the SAS rotates a Squadron into Task Force Black on a 6-monthly basis.

Here's more:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2461368.ece

Here's a profile of the innocent civilian fdentist from a few years ago:

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/ar...ticleid=2370052

Abu al-Ghadia to Build on al-Zarqawi's Legacy in Iraq

By Sami Moubayed

Very little is known about one of the late-Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's top operatives, Abu al-Ghadia al-Soori (or sometimes known as Abu al-Ghadia al-Shami). Some refer to his real name as Sulayman Khalid Darwish. There is no photograph of Abu al-Ghadia, and not a single interview with him. No one in Syria will confess to having met him, not even classmates who had graduated from Damascus University Dentistry School with him in the 1990s. Arab newspapers ran a story in July 2005 saying that he had been killed in a U.S. air strike (as part of Operation Spear) in the al-Qaim village, near the Syrian-Iraqi border; Iraqi TV, however, said that he had been killed in the Sunni Anbar province. Nothing was revealed about him back then, except that he was al-Zarqawi's right-hand man. Both stories appeared to be false, however, as his name resurfaced after al-Zarqawi's June 7 death and word spread that he was a candidate for becoming the new "al-Qaeda prince in Iraq."

The bits and pieces that are known about Abu al-Ghadia reveal that he was born in Syria in 1976 and raised in the suburbs of Damascus. The influential Arabic website, Middle East Transparent (http://www.metransparent.com), claims that he carries two Syrian passport numbers, #11012 and #3936712 (metransparent.com, July 25, 2005). According to the website, he lived in the vicinity of Damascus, leading an ordinary life until going to Afghanistan to join al-Qaeda in the 1990s. Too young to have been active in the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, which went to war against the government of Syria when he was six years-old in 1982, Abu al-Ghadia was influenced by their teachings. No evidence points to exactly why Abu al-Ghadia abandoned Syria and went to Afghanistan in the 1990s. As a dentist, he should have been able to secure a good income in Syria. Yet, the attractiveness of jihad and the promises of martyrdom probably influenced the young Islamist. He served as one of the main intelligence commanders under al-Zarqawi in Iraq, and is a member of the Mujahideen Shura Council, a coalition of Sunni insurgent groups. He is a co-founder of Jund al-Sham and the Tawhid and Jihad Group in Iraq.

Abu al-Ghadia became close to al-Zarqawi after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Their relationship had been cemented in Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks. According to Mohammed Makkawi, known by the war name Sayf al-Adl (Sword of Justice), Abu Musab and Abu al-Ghadia became good friends at a training camp in Afghanistan, occupied by 42 Arab families, three of which were Syrian (metransparent.com, testimony of Mohammed Makkawi on May 29, 2005). Al-Zarqawi took Abu al-Ghadia under his wing, personally training him in the use of firearms and explosives. He also took lessons in topography and electronics. He received further training in the Palestinian Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp in Lebanon, becoming a master of document fraud. From hereon, al-Zarqawi relied on him to secure fake passports for jihadists traveling around the world. The young Syrian had accompanied al-Zarqawi to Jordan where he introduced al-Ghadia to a Jordanian woman. They married and moved to Iraq to join al-Zarqawi after 2003 (al-Arabiya, June 8). Shortly afterwards, his name emerged as one of the terrorists whose property in the United States, if any, was frozen by the U.S. government.

Abu al-Ghadia also worked as al-Zarqawi's moneyman in Iraq (metransparent.com, July 25, 2005). He is said to have channeled $10,000-$12,000 to al-Zarqawi every 20-25 days. This money came from Islamic sources in the Arab world. In 2004, Abu al-Ghadia was charged with building bridges with "Arab Afghans" who had fought with Osama bin Laden against the Soviets in the 1980s. Many had been dispersed after the war in Afghanistan, and Abu al-Ghadia was asked to find them and recruit them to work with al-Zarqawi in Iraq.

In February, Jordan sentenced Abu al-Ghadia to death in absentia. He, like al-Zarqawi, was found guilty of planning chemical attacks in Amman. Among other things, both al-Ghadia and al-Zarqawi wanted to target Jordanian intelligence services and the U.S. Embassy in Jordan in April 2004. Abu al-Ghadia was sentenced for sending money to al-Zarqawi and recruiting and training members of al-Qaeda in Iraq (al-Jazeera, May 24, 2004). Another Syrian, Anas Sameer al-Sheikh (19 years-old), was arrested and also sentenced to death. He is believed to have been recruited into al-Qaeda by Abu al-Ghadia. Jordanian TV had interviewed some of the terrorists, and one confessed to having received funds, fake passports and arms from al-Ghadia, who charged him with setting up an arms factory on the Iraqi side of the Syrian-Iraqi border. These activities show that despite the death of al-Zarqawi, al-Ghadia will continue to work with al-Qaeda and build on al-Zarqawi's legacy in Iraq.

I can see that you and I have a fundamental disagreement on this, Bill. Abu al-Ghadia obviously had form and terrorism is a poor career choice but I see people like him as largely a product of America's own making. When he was growing up, how many times did he witness members of his own and extended family being killed by Israeli or American attacks? Which brings me to the central point (one you have yet to address)--it doesn't matter how many al-Ghadia's or bin-Laden's you kill because more will always spring up.

TF-88 can pat themselves on the back, go back to Headquarters for de-briefing and cocktails, and boast to the world about the great job they've done. But while America remains an occupying force, while it murders innocents in pursuit of the guilty, while it supports the brutal repression of Palestine, the multi-headed Hydra will just grow another head to replace guys like al-Ghadia.

It locks in an eternal conflict but apparently many Americans have too much crude hubris to see or give a dam. And you also can't afford it any more---America's broke, remember?

You need to see Team America, twice.

Yea, Mark, we do have a fundamental difference on this. Especially after you ignore the fact that there was no bombing and it was a Joint-British-US team that went into Syria to take out this killer, who you hypothisize was converted to al Quada by witnessing Americans killing babies.

I've seen Team America, and thought it was pretty funny, but if that's the way you look at the World and Americans you're the one with the perverted cartoonish view of things.

If given the choice of supporting TF88 guys or Abu Ghadiya, I'll side with TF88. Abu Ghadiya was a mean MF and I'm glad there's TF88 guys out there chasing down the Bad Guys and killing them, whereever they are.

BK

[Mark Stapleton]

Yea, Mark, we do have a fundamental difference on this. Especially after you ignore the fact that there was no bombing and it was a Joint-British-US team that went into Syria to take out this killer, who you hypothisize was converted to al Quada by witnessing Americans killing babies.

I've seen Team America, and thought it was pretty funny, but if that's the way you look at the World and Americans you're the one with the perverted cartoonish view of things.

If given the choice of supporting TF88 guys or Abu Ghadiya, I'll side with TF88. Abu Ghadiya was a mean MF and I'm glad there's TF88 guys out there chasing down the Bad Guys and killing them, whereever they are.

BK

There are a few misrepresentations of what I said in your post above but I'm not going to linger on them because a slanging match doesn't get us anywhere.

Suffice to say you will continue your belief that America's actions are justified and I'll have to settle for my perverted cartoonish view of things.

btw, did you read Ron's post? I fully agree with it.

[William Kelly]

Yea, Mark, we do have a fundamental difference on this. Especially after you ignore the fact that there was no bombing and it was a Joint-British-US team that went into Syria to take out this killer, who you hypothisize was converted to al Quada by witnessing Americans killing babies.

I've seen Team America, and thought it was pretty funny, but if that's the way you look at the World and Americans you're the one with the perverted cartoonish view of things.

If given the choice of supporting TF88 guys or Abu Ghadiya, I'll side with TF88. Abu Ghadiya was a mean MF and I'm glad there's TF88 guys out there chasing down the Bad Guys and killing them, whereever they are.

BK

There are a few misrepresentations of what I said in your post above but I'm not going to linger on them because a slanging match doesn't get us anywhere.

Suffice to say you will continue your belief that America's actions are justified and I'll have to settle for my perverted cartoonish view of things.

btw, did you read Ron's post? I fully agree with it.

Mark,

Please point out where I missrepresent the situation and you don't.

You said the USA invaded and bombed Syria, an act of war, when in fact, as the details come out, a joint British SAS/US Task Force unit went in and killed a dozen terrorists, including Abu Ghadiya, sentenced to death by Jordan and primary supplier of documents to al Quada fighters in Iraq.

You don't want to discuss or learn more about this incident, you just want to rant and rave about Americans.

Are you British? Where's the outrage against the British for this bombing of innocent civilians and invasion of Syria?

Because you're not interested in what really happened, just ranting and raving against America.

And yes, I read Ron, and if you think the economy will have any effect on Americans going after guys like Abu Ghadiya then you just don't understand.

But Abu Ghadiya, and the "Sword of Justice," understood.

BK

[Mark Stapleton]

Mark,

Please point out where I missrepresent the situation and you don't.

You said the USA invaded and bombed Syria, an act of war, when in fact, as the details come out, a joint British SAS/US Task Force unit went in and killed a dozen terrorists, including Abu Ghadiya, sentenced to death by Jordan and primary supplier of documents to al Quada fighters in Iraq.

You don't want to discuss or learn more about this incident, you just want to rant and rave about Americans.

Are you British? Where's the outrage against the British for this bombing of innocent civilians and invasion of Syria?

Because you're not interested in what really happened, just ranting and raving against America.

And yes, I read Ron, and if you think the economy will have any effect on Americans going after guys like Abu Ghadiya then you just don't understand.

But Abu Ghadiya, and the "Sword of Justice," understood.

BK

I already said I'm not getting into a slanging match. I'll let those who read this thread make up their own minds. But it seems that I''m not the only one ranting and raving about America:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/30-4

Syria Puts US Embassy Under Guard as Tens of Thousands Join Protest

Troops carrying batons and shields are stationed in Damascus as crowds decry American 'terrorist' raid on border

by Haroon Siddique and agencies

Hundreds of Syrian riot police surrounded the US embassy in Damascus today as tens of thousands of protesters gathered nearby to denounce a US raid that killed eight people near the Iraqi border.

The crowds converged on Youssef al-Azmi square, about a mile from the embassy - which was closed for the day because of security concerns.

Troops wearing helmets and carrying batons and shields took up positions around the embassy and the adjacent US residence building. Two fire engines were parked nearby.

There were no signs of violence as protesters formed circles and danced traditional dances

"America the sponsor of destruction and wars," read one banner, as protesters waved national flags and pictures of the Syrian president, Bashar Assad.

"We will not submit to terrorism," read another banner.

Hussam Baayoun, a 20-year-old university student, said the US raid was a "criminal act". "We want the Americans to stop their acts of terrorism in Syria, in Iraq and the rest of the world," he said.

The Syrian government has demanded a US apology for the attack in the eastern border community, which it says left eight civilians dead. It has threatened to cut off cooperation on Iraqi border security if there are more raids on its territory.

Syrian security around the embassy is usually tight and Americans in the country are generally made to feel welcome but when the US invaded Iraq protesters attacked the embassy.

The American school has been shut for the day. The Syrian government has ordered the school to shut down - this is expected within a week - and the immediate closing of the American cultural centre linked to the embassy.

In Washington, a state department deputy spokesman, Robert Wood, said yesterday that the White House was considering how to respond to the order to shut the cultural centre and American school. He stressed that the US expected the Syrian government to "provide adequate security for the buildings". The US embassy warned its citizens in Syria to be vigilant.

There has been no formal acknowledgment of the raid from Washington, but US officials speaking on condition of anonymity have said it killed Badran Turki al-Mazidih, a top al-Qaida figure who operated a network smuggling fighters into Iraq. An Iraqi national, he also uses the name Abu Ghadiyah.

Washington lists Syria as a state sponsor of terrorism and has operated sanctions since 2004. In recent months Damascus has been trying to end years of global isolation. Assad is seen as less hardline than his father, the previous president.

US accusations that Syria is not doing enough to prevent foreign fighters from crossing its borders into Iraq remain a sore point in relations. Syria says it is doing all it can to safeguard its long, porous border.

Looks like you have a major PR problem on your hands. Good luck with that.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Mark Stapleton

[William Kelly]

Mark,

Please point out where I missrepresent the situation and you don't.

You said the USA invaded and bombed Syria, an act of war, when in fact, as the details come out, a joint British SAS/US Task Force unit went in and killed a dozen terrorists, including Abu Ghadiya, sentenced to death by Jordan and primary supplier of documents to al Quada fighters in Iraq.

You don't want to discuss or learn more about this incident, you just want to rant and rave about Americans.

Are you British? Where's the outrage against the British for this bombing of innocent civilians and invasion of Syria?

Because you're not interested in what really happened, just ranting and raving against America.

And yes, I read Ron, and if you think the economy will have any effect on Americans going after guys like Abu Ghadiya then you just don't understand.

But Abu Ghadiya, and the "Sword of Justice," understood.

BK

I already said I'm not getting into a slanging match. I'll let those who read this thread make up their own minds. But it seems that I''m not the only one ranting and raving about America:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/30-4

Syria Puts US Embassy Under Guard as Tens of Thousands Join Protest

Troops carrying batons and shields are stationed in Damascus as crowds decry American 'terrorist' raid on border

by Haroon Siddique and agencies

Tens of Iraqi refugees in Syria protest against a US raid on a Syrian village at Sukkeriyah, 8 km from the Iraqi border, that killed eight people, in downtown Damascus on Wednesday Oct. 29, 2008. The protestors chanted anti-US slogans and carried Iraqi flags. Syria's deputy foreign minister said Wednesday that Damascus wants America and Iraq to apologize to Syria for a U.S. commando raid mounted from Iraq that killed eight and pledge not to repeat it again. (AP Photo/Bassem Tellawi)Hundreds of Syrian riot police surrounded the US embassy in Damascus today as tens of thousands of protesters gathered nearby to denounce a US raid that killed eight people near the Iraqi border.

The crowds converged on Youssef al-Azmi square, about a mile from the embassy - which was closed for the day because of security concerns.

Troops wearing helmets and carrying batons and shields took up positions around the embassy and the adjacent US residence building. Two fire engines were parked nearby.

There were no signs of violence as protesters formed circles and danced traditional dances

"America the sponsor of destruction and wars," read one banner, as protesters waved national flags and pictures of the Syrian president, Bashar Assad.

"We will not submit to terrorism," read another banner.

Hussam Baayoun, a 20-year-old university student, said the US raid was a "criminal act". "We want the Americans to stop their acts of terrorism in Syria, in Iraq and the rest of the world," he said.

The Syrian government has demanded a US apology for the attack in the eastern border community, which it says left eight civilians dead. It has threatened to cut off cooperation on Iraqi border security if there are more raids on its territory.

Syrian security around the embassy is usually tight and Americans in the country are generally made to feel welcome but when the US invaded Iraq protesters attacked the embassy.

The American school has been shut for the day. The Syrian government has ordered the school to shut down - this is expected within a week - and the immediate closing of the American cultural centre linked to the embassy.

In Washington, a state department deputy spokesman, Robert Wood, said yesterday that the White House was considering how to respond to the order to shut the cultural centre and American school. He stressed that the US expected the Syrian government to "provide adequate security for the buildings". The US embassy warned its citizens in Syria to be vigilant.

There has been no formal acknowledgment of the raid from Washington, but US officials speaking on condition of anonymity have said it killed Badran Turki al-Mazidih, a top al-Qaida figure who operated a network smuggling fighters into Iraq. An Iraqi national, he also uses the name Abu Ghadiyah.

Washington lists Syria as a state sponsor of terrorism and has operated sanctions since 2004. In recent months Damascus has been trying to end years of global isolation. Assad is seen as less hardline than his father, the previous president.

US accusations that Syria is not doing enough to prevent foreign fighters from crossing its borders into Iraq remain a sore point in relations. Syria says it is doing all it can to safeguard its long, porous border.

Looks like you have a major PR problem on your hands. Good luck with that.

Mark,

It's not my PR problem. I can't take on the disinforation of nations, but I can set you straight about Americans bombing children and committing acts of war.

I can see how these emotions can be whipped up by propagandists who say Americans bombed innocent Syrian workers and children when that is pattently not the case.

Will you please acknowldge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians, that the British were also part of the operation, and announce what your nationality is?

And I'd like to hear from John Simkin when he checks in to see what he has to say about the British being involved in this American Imperialism.

Thanks,

BK

[Terry Mauro]

Mark,

Please point out where I missrepresent the situation and you don't.

You said the USA invaded and bombed Syria, an act of war, when in fact, as the details come out, a joint British SAS/US Task Force unit went in and killed a dozen terrorists, including Abu Ghadiya, sentenced to death by Jordan and primary supplier of documents to al Quada fighters in Iraq.

You don't want to discuss or learn more about this incident, you just want to rant and rave about Americans.

Are you British? Where's the outrage against the British for this bombing of innocent civilians and invasion of Syria?

Because you're not interested in what really happened, just ranting and raving against America.

And yes, I read Ron, and if you think the economy will have any effect on Americans going after guys like Abu Ghadiya then you just don't understand.

But Abu Ghadiya, and the "Sword of Justice," understood.

BK

I already said I'm not getting into a slanging match. I'll let those who read this thread make up their own minds. But it seems that I''m not the only one ranting and raving about America:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/30-4

Syria Puts US Embassy Under Guard as Tens of Thousands Join Protest

Troops carrying batons and shields are stationed in Damascus as crowds decry American 'terrorist' raid on border

by Haroon Siddique and agencies

Tens of Iraqi refugees in Syria protest against a US raid on a Syrian village at Sukkeriyah, 8 km from the Iraqi border, that killed eight people, in downtown Damascus on Wednesday Oct. 29, 2008. The protestors chanted anti-US slogans and carried Iraqi flags. Syria's deputy foreign minister said Wednesday that Damascus wants America and Iraq to apologize to Syria for a U.S. commando raid mounted from Iraq that killed eight and pledge not to repeat it again. (AP Photo/Bassem Tellawi)Hundreds of Syrian riot police surrounded the US embassy in Damascus today as tens of thousands of protesters gathered nearby to denounce a US raid that killed eight people near the Iraqi border.

The crowds converged on Youssef al-Azmi square, about a mile from the embassy - which was closed for the day because of security concerns.

Troops wearing helmets and carrying batons and shields took up positions around the embassy and the adjacent US residence building. Two fire engines were parked nearby.

There were no signs of violence as protesters formed circles and danced traditional dances

"America the sponsor of destruction and wars," read one banner, as protesters waved national flags and pictures of the Syrian president, Bashar Assad.

"We will not submit to terrorism," read another banner.

Hussam Baayoun, a 20-year-old university student, said the US raid was a "criminal act". "We want the Americans to stop their acts of terrorism in Syria, in Iraq and the rest of the world," he said.

The Syrian government has demanded a US apology for the attack in the eastern border community, which it says left eight civilians dead. It has threatened to cut off cooperation on Iraqi border security if there are more raids on its territory.

Syrian security around the embassy is usually tight and Americans in the country are generally made to feel welcome but when the US invaded Iraq protesters attacked the embassy.

The American school has been shut for the day. The Syrian government has ordered the school to shut down - this is expected within a week - and the immediate closing of the American cultural centre linked to the embassy.

In Washington, a state department deputy spokesman, Robert Wood, said yesterday that the White House was considering how to respond to the order to shut the cultural centre and American school. He stressed that the US expected the Syrian government to "provide adequate security for the buildings". The US embassy warned its citizens in Syria to be vigilant.

There has been no formal acknowledgment of the raid from Washington, but US officials speaking on condition of anonymity have said it killed Badran Turki al-Mazidih, a top al-Qaida figure who operated a network smuggling fighters into Iraq. An Iraqi national, he also uses the name Abu Ghadiyah.

Washington lists Syria as a state sponsor of terrorism and has operated sanctions since 2004. In recent months Damascus has been trying to end years of global isolation. Assad is seen as less hardline than his father, the previous president.

US accusations that Syria is not doing enough to prevent foreign fighters from crossing its borders into Iraq remain a sore point in relations. Syria says it is doing all it can to safeguard its long, porous border.

Looks like you have a major PR problem on your hands. Good luck with that.

Mark,

It's not my PR problem. I can't take on the disinforation of nations, but I can set you straight about Americans bombing children and committing acts of war.

I can see how these emotions can be whipped up by propagandists who say Americans bombed innocent Syrian workers and children when that is pattently not the case.

Will you please acknowldge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians, that the British were also part of the operation, and announce what your nationality is?

And I'd like to hear from John Simkin when he checks in to see what he has to say about the British being involved in this American Imperialism.

Thanks,

BK

It's really America (under Dick Cheney) involved in British Imperalism. The "Special Relationship" is alive and well.

[John Simkin]

John,

The bombing of Syria was clearly an act of war.

John, the attack on Americans whereever they are is an act of war. The Americans are responding to their being attacked.

An act of war is when one country orders an attack on another country. What kind of world would we have if every country went to war when its citizens were attacked by terrorists? Would it have been a good idea if Britain had bombed Ireland after every IRA attack? Should they have bombed the United States, as much of the IRA’s funding came from your country? The truth is that the only country that behaves in that way is the US. They do it because they can. They are the world’s only superpower and they therefore think they can bully the rest of the world into submission. The great irony is that despite this tremendous military advantage, they cannot win any war that they fight. True they can kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians but they cannot impose their will on the occupied population. The world has moved on from the days of the British Empire, the Nazi Empire and the Soviet Empire, when you could use your military might to suppress countries. As Mark pointed out, for every innocent civilian you kill, you produce several people, usually friends and relatives, willing to become guerrilla fighters.

Nobody bombed anybody. We're talking about the helicopter attack on the al Quada coordinator in Syria and the taking of two prisoners.

The parents of the children killed in the attack would not be interested if the bombs came from planes or helicopters. All they know is the Americans killed them and unless they have the morals of Martin Luther King they will seek revenge.

John,

John, do you refuse to read or believe this report that the attack had the green light from Syrian Intelligence?

This is of course possible but it does not make it right. Syria is indeed a despicable regime and would make a good ally for George Bush.

And I'd like to hear from John Simkin when he checks in to see what he has to say about the British being involved in this American Imperialism.

My moral principles are not influenced by my nationality. As you will know from my many posts on Iraq, I am deeply ashamed that my government supports American Imperialism and I condemn it without reservation.

[Mark Stapleton]

Mark,

It's not my PR problem. I can't take on the disinforation of nations, but I can set you straight about Americans bombing children and committing acts of war.

I can see how these emotions can be whipped up by propagandists who say Americans bombed innocent Syrian workers and children when that is pattently not the case.

Will you please acknowldge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians, that the British were also part of the operation, and announce what your nationality is?

And I'd like to hear from John Simkin when he checks in to see what he has to say about the British being involved in this American Imperialism.

Thanks,

BK

No, I certainly won't ackowledge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians.

I would not be surprised if the British were part of the operation, despite the fact it in no way softens my stance on US Imperialism, but I would prefer to confirm that fact with my sources rather than yours.

I am from Sydney, Australia.

Like John Simkin, I am deeply ashamed that my Government also supports US Imperialism and I also condemn it without reservation.

Will that be all, sir?

[William Kelly]

Mark,

It's not my PR problem. I can't take on the disinforation of nations, but I can set you straight about Americans bombing children and committing acts of war.

I can see how these emotions can be whipped up by propagandists who say Americans bombed innocent Syrian workers and children when that is pattently not the case.

Will you please acknowldge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians, that the British were also part of the operation, and announce what your nationality is?

And I'd like to hear from John Simkin when he checks in to see what he has to say about the British being involved in this American Imperialism.

Thanks,

BK

No, I certainly won't ackowledge that the US did not bomb innocent Syrians.

I would not be surprised if the British were part of the operation, despite the fact it in no way softens my stance on US Imperialism, but I would prefer to confirm that fact with my sources rather than yours.

I am from Sydney, Australia.

Like John Simkin, I am deeply ashamed that my Government also supports US Imperialism and I also condemn it without reservation.

Will that be all, sir?

Yes, Mark,

Carry on, ranting and raving about Americans killing babies with bombs from helicopters.

I'm sure the Americans learned everything they know about Imperialism from the British.

And thanks for starting this thread, Mark, I never heard of TF88 before this.

And your surmising that I support McCain is also wrong. My best scenario is that Bush arranges for a false flag terrorist action that gives him the excuse to declare marshall law and call off, ah, postpone the election, so real American patriots can actively take up their God given rights to bear arms against the unConstitutional government and overthrow it.

BK

Edited October 31, 2008 by William Kelly

[Mark Stapleton]

Yes, Mark,

Carry on, ranting and raving about Americans killing babies with bombs from helicopters.

I'm sure the Americans learned everything they know about Imperialism from the British.

And thanks for starting this thread, Mark, I never heard of TF88 before this.

And your surmising that I support McCain is also wrong. My best scenario is that Bush arranges for a false flag terrorist action that gives him the excuse to declare marshall law and call off, ah, postpone the election, so real American patriots can actively take up their God given rights to bear arms against the unConstitutional government and overthrow it.

BK

This is pretty poor form from a respected researcher like you, Bill. I'm a little surprised. You well know I made no such comment about killing babies from helicopters. US forces have killed civilians is what I said, and it's quite true.

You seem to think this is justified. I think that's sad.

You also can't see the folly of this never ending cycle of violence, whereas John and Ron (and I assume other readers) can. That's sad, too.

So you want to exercise your ""God given right"" (evidence, please) to bear arms and overthrow the Government, eh. Well I agree the current political system in the US has failed but I'm having trouble reconciling your contempt for the system with your support for its disastrous foreign policy agenda.

I think I'm just about through trying to figure out Americans.

[William Kelly]

Yes, Mark,

Carry on, ranting and raving about Americans killing babies with bombs from helicopters.

I'm sure the Americans learned everything they know about Imperialism from the British.

And thanks for starting this thread, Mark, I never heard of TF88 before this.

And your surmising that I support McCain is also wrong. My best scenario is that Bush arranges for a false flag terrorist action that gives him the excuse to declare marshall law and call off, ah, postpone the election, so real American patriots can actively take up their God given rights to bear arms against the unConstitutional government and overthrow it.

BK

This is pretty poor form from a respected researcher like you, Bill. I'm a little surprised. You well know I made no such comment about killing babies from helicopters. US forces have killed civilians is what I said, and it's quite true.

You seem to think this is justified. I think that's sad.

You also can't see the folly of this never ending cycle of violence, whereas John and Ron (and I assume other readers) can. That's sad, too.

So you want to exercise your ""God given right"" (evidence, please) to bear arms and overthrow the Government, eh. Well I agree the current political system in the US has failed but I'm having trouble reconciling your contempt for the system with your support for its disastrous foreign policy agenda.

I think I'm just about through trying to figure out Americans.

The Sunday Times, Nov. 2, 2008

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5062848.ece

No bombs.

No dead children.

No innocent civilians.

No war crimes trial

No act of war

Two dead al Quada and six associates.

And also note there's no mention of Task Force 88, the supersecret Joint British SAS/ US Navy SEAL unit said to have been responsible for conducting the raid.

Never Again. Never Forget.

BK