E-Mail

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom,I'm trying to play devil's advocate here and enhance my understanding of the facts. Now, based upon the medical evidence you've shown as to how the 3rd shot traveled in the President's head, I'm having difficulty reconciling that with the not-so-clear still from the Z-film--Z-349--to determine that what Altgens says happened, occurred the way your interpretation of the medical evidence states that it happened.

IOW, was JFK's body/head in the proper position for a 3rd shot at approximately Z-349--with the limo at the Altgens position--for the bullet to have gone where the evidence suggests it did? Or if not here, then when?

Not criticising, as much as I'm just trying to get a better understanding.

Tom,I'm trying to play devil's advocate here and enhance my understanding of the facts.

[b]Not criticising, as much as I'm just trying to get a better understanding.[/b]

Play the advocate and criticize all that you want. If it cannot hold up to that, then it would be quite worthless.

And, the answer is that it becomes a perfect alignment.

1. Sit upright in a chair.

2. Lean the head forward with the chin almost to the chest.

3. Roll the head and face to the right to the extent that the chin is now pointing towards the right arm pit.

4. Lean forward and to the left at an approximately 45-degree angle until such time as the right ear is pointed almost directly up and the earlobe is in an almost horizontal plane.

This position now places the right rear EOP area of the skull into direct alignment with the sixth floor window line of fire (along with the slightly elevated coat collar).

What Dr. Boswell drew as "up" and slanting from left to right, is in reality DOWN, with a slightly right to left angle.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0036a.htm

Due to the now "downward" angle of penetration, the majority of cerebral tissue which would have been blown forward from this shot, went downward and forward over the back of the jump seats, as well as over the back of JBC and Nellie.

And, due to the cross-angle of fire from the TSDB, any cerebral tissue which went outside the boundary of the Presidential Limo would have done so towards the left side of the vehicle, in the direction of James Altgens.

And of course, the bullet continued forward through the mid-brain of JFK, exiting in the right frontal lobe, only to continue on it's downward track to strike JBC in the right rear shoulder which was exposed as he lay over across the void area between the jump seats.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...2&hl=Nellie

Post #5

As a last item, it should be noted that Nellie Connally ultimately wrote/published a book on the events in Dallas on 11/22/63. Of specific noteworthiness is her handwritten notes which she states were made 10 days after the event.

In these handwritten notes, she states:

"Quickly there was a second shot (John had turned to the right at the first shot to look back & had then whirled to the left to get another look---realized the President had been shot said "No, No, No)

Was hit and said "My God, they are are going to kill us all"--Wheeled back to the right crumpling his shoulders and his knees in the most unpleasant & pitiful position a tall big man could be in.

I reached over and pulled him to me & tried to get us both down in the car. Then came a third shot.

With John in my arms and still trying to stay down I did not see the third shot hit--but I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car."

================================================================================

That this, the last/final/third shot, struck JFK at the base of the neck at the edge of the hairline and then "tunnelled" upwards through the soft tissue at the base of the skull to then strike the skull in the EOP region at a point which was "higher" than the point of entry into the scalp, has always been one of those things which researchers have failed to understand.

Thusly, claiming that Humes & etc; did not know what they were doing; the body was kidnapped and wounds altered; etc; etc; etc;.

When in fact, as with virtually every single item of forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical evidence, there is a complete and logically explainable reason as to exactly why and how it occurred.

Tom

P.S. In referencing this, the last shot, we are in fact discussing the one and only true "Magic Bullet".

That being the bullet which penetrated through JFK to exit and then penetrate through JBC's chest and then exit the chest and lodge in the left leg.

Only to thereafter "disappear"! (almost so anyway!)

P.P.S. Don't forget the "tangential" penetration through the coat of JFK which struck just below the edge of the coat collar and penetrated the outer as well as inner liner on a somewhat oblique angle.

And of course, the bullet continued forward through the mid-brain of JFK, exiting in the right frontal lobe, only to continue on it's downward track to strike JBC in the right rear shoulder which was exposed as he lay over across the void area between the jump seats.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0458b.htm

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Having again been informed (by email) that I frequently "speak in tongues", perhaps we can keep some of this to the simple photographs.

For those who recall, at times, I have branched in to the importance of "construction joints" and "expansion Joints" as relates to concrete sidewalk; pavement; and curb & gutter construction.

Therefore, since this is not a class on proper pouring of concrete, there must be some indicator (at least in my often warped mind) that these items have some significance in the JFK assassination.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4076-001.gif

If one will take a close look at the far right side of this photograph, then they will see a joint in the concrete sidewalk which runs down directly along to the edge of the lamp post base.

In addition, if one looks farther down the sidewalk, they will find another such joint in the concrete.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Having again been informed (by email) that I frequently "speak in tongues", perhaps we can keep some of this to the simple photographs.

For those who recall, at times, I have branched in to the importance of "construction joints" and "expansion Joints" as relates to concrete sidewalk; pavement; and curb & gutter construction.

Therefore, since this is not a class on proper pouring of concrete, there must be some indicator (at least in my often warped mind) that these items have some significance in the JFK assassination.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4076-001.gif

If one will take a close look at the far right side of this photograph, then they will see a joint in the concrete sidewalk which runs down directly along to the edge of the lamp post base.

In addition, if one looks farther down the sidewalk, they will find another such joint in the concrete.

===================================

As indicated (to some), I was the recipient of one of those "bugs" which pretty well ate up everything stored on my computer.

Therefore, I am having to search the net for photo's to demonstrate a few items.

There are those here who have much better examples of some of these photo's, and if they would post them as well, I have no doubt that it would be appreciated.

anyway.

Here, we have the Newman family on the grass with a relatively clear example of the sidewalk construction joints.

Additionally, in the far right bottom edge, one can see a portion of the light pole base as well as the patch in the sidewalk at the base of the pole.

From this photo one can also clearly see the sidewalk construction joint which is located between the Newman's position on the grass.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Having established the "construction joint" in the sidewalk, which lies between the positions of the Newman's, then one can thereafter look across the street to see what (if any) reference point is located on the opposite side.

And, one will find a yellow curb marking conveniently located almost directly across the street from the Newman position.

In reference to that mark, one should "think" Moorman/Hill!

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg

Might I also recommend that one give special attention to the "crack" in the asphalt pavement which runs directly from the center of the street to the center of the yellow curb mark (in the Newman photo)

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box11.htm

Box 11, Folder 53

1. Photograph. Photograph of reconstruction by U. S. Secret Service. Markers shows position of the President's car at time of 2nd and 3rd shots, negative number 91-001/060, 91-001/370, and 91-001/371, (Photographic Image: Size 8" X 10"), 11/27/63. 00004077 4 pages 11 53 001 4077-001.gif 4077-002.gif 4077-003.gif 4077-004.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4077-001.gif

==============================

As one progress backwards to the SS Assassination re-enactment photo which demonstrates the impact location for the second and third shots, there are several noteworthy items.

First off!

In the left side of the photograph, one can observe the yellow curb mark with the crack in the asphalt street, which runs directly towards the curb mark/aka Jean Hill/Mary Moorman position.

Then, if one moves on down Elm St. in the photograph, they observe the cone placed on the sidewalk which is parallel to the impact location of Shot#2/aka the Z313 impact location. Which also happens to be past the end of the "patch" in the asphalt street.

Note: This "patch" can also be seen in some of the photo's from the "sniper's nest", for those who care to look for it.

Just as it can be seen in the SS Assassination re-enactment films.

All of which clearly demonstrates that the SS established the impact location for the second shot as having been well past/further down Elm St. than the position of Mary Moorman & Jean Hill, who were standing alongside the first yellow curb marking.

However!

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box11.htm

Box 11, Folder 51

1. Photograph. Photograph of engineers' drawing made for U. S. Secret Service of Elm St. and Houston area, negative number 91-001/036, 91-001/037, and 91-001/038, (Photographic Image: Size 5" X 7"), date unknown. 00004074 8 pages 11 51 001 4074-001.gif 4074-002.gif 4074-003.gif 4074-004.gif 4074-005.gif 4074-006.gif 4074-007.gif 4074-008.gif

==============

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4074-001.gif

==================

A good and close review of this purported SS assassination re-enactment survey will clearly demonstrate that the Second Shot impact point is marked well prior to the first yellow curb marking.

And, as was stated and long ago explained, this is in fact the Survey which was completed for the FBI on 2/7/64 in which the FBI attempted to "fudge" the second shot impact/akaZ313 impact, back up Elm St. some 24-feet, which placed it's impact prior to that point at which JFK had even passed the Moorman Hill position.

It IS NOT the Survey Plat for the US Secret Service Assassination Re-enactment of 12/5/63.

But, all of this obfuscation has quite obviously escaped all of those highly dedicated and serious researchers who have exposed so many "mythological multiple assassins" hiding behind trees; in manholes; behind the fence; ______________(fill in the blank); etc; etc; etc;.

Makes one often wonder exactly why they have not merely looked at the clouds in the sky and attempted to resolve the issues there, since they most assuredly have not looked at the forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical evidence.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

For a combination of reasons, the FBI "Fudge Factor" work was partially exposed and thereafter actually never seen by anyone other than perhaps those who played a hand in it's fairy tale creation and select members of the Warren Commission.

Who, as a result of the tell-tale yellow curb markings, knew that the FBI FIB of 2/7/64 could not be made to fly, primarily as a result of the yellow curb markings.

Therein lies much of the reasoning behind the Warren Commission creation, to "EXPLAIN" the facts and truths to us while also attempting to cover for a direct attempt by the FBI to lie.

With this, the Warren Commisson fully recognized that the Z313 impact location had to remain in it's virtual exact location on Elm St. as a result primarily of the yellow curb marking where Jean Hill & Mary Moorman stood.

Thus, the WC Survey work which gave us the survey stationing of the Z313 impact point of 4+65.3, and then so cleverly informed us that this represented the last shot fired in the shooting sequence.

(even though multiple witnesses had stated that the impact to the head of JFK in which his head exploded, was the SECOND SHOT fired)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

For those who are new to the game, I long ago posted the "street elevation" for the second shot/aka Z313 impact point as determined by the SS, as well as the survey notes for the WC's establishment of this position.

With the results being only a few hundredths of an inch difference in street elevation difference between the two positions, which could be either a slight horizontal difference on Elm St (less than 6-inches) or a mere difference between positioning the JFK stand-in at a slight difference which was either left or right of center of the street.

The primary difference between the WC and the SS (to include the FBI) being the impact location for the third/last/final shot which occurred directly in front of James Altgens location.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

Which happens to be some 30-feet farther down Elm St. than the impact location for the Z313/aka Second shot impact point.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4077-001.gif

Box 11, Folder 53

1. Photograph. Photograph of reconstruction by U. S. Secret Service. Markers shows position of the President's car at time of 2nd and 3rd shots,

======================================================

[Chris Davidson]

A few Tom.

chris

[Thomas H. Purvis]

A few Tom.

chris

Thanks Chris!

Here is another composite.

Heh! Heh! Heh!

I would suppose that there are those who had assumed that I had reached the latter stages of complete senility when I began to expand on the importance of concrete construction joints and expansion joints.

Not there yet!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4077-001.gif

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

Z313/aka Second Shot impact location:----Survey Stationing 4+65.3

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

Third Shot impact location:-------4+95 (what was actually surveyed in), some 30-feet farther down Elm St. from the Z313 impact location, directly in front of James Altgens position.

For those new to the game, I long ago provided copies of the actual survey plats as well as the surveyor's field notes which clearly demonstrate these points as well.

There was no "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"!

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0068a.htm

There was however a "Magic Bullet"!

It went through the head of JFK down in front of James Altgens position, exited to strike JBC in the right rear shoulder and then passed through his leg to lodge in his chest.

The indications of this shot as well as the bullet responsible for the injuries has been made to "disappear", while he wounds which the bullet created have been blamed on CE399, which is not "Magic".

There is no Magic!

However, Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear.

(Tom Purvis)

[Thomas H. Purvis]

XXXXXX:

I discussed at length with Mr. West all of the various surveys as well as much of the actions during the various assassination re-enactments.

It was a result of these conversations that I am aware that Mr. West and/or his personnel were not involved in the actual determination of the position of JFK, and merely surveyed in what they were informed to do.

As well as the fact stated to me by Mr. West that he; his survey personnel; and everyone else engaged in the various re-enactments assisted in searching for any indications of a bullet (or fragments) having struck anything which left an indication, and absolutely none could be found anywhere along Elm St.

(the Tague impact was later found and surveyed in)

Although there was some allowance in which they actually saw photographs which the various parties utilized in determination of these positions.

One must take into consideration the number of various survey/re-enactments done as well as the 20 or so years of time lapse.

Since many of the survey notes were not "labeled" exactly, I had to sit with Mr. West at his home and specifically ask exactly which survey some of the notes applied to.

And in that regards, due to the volume of survey notes, it took a while to actually sort out exactly what some of them represented as well as exactly when the work was done and for whom.

The FBI re-enactment was done (if memory serves correctly) on 2/7/64, and somewhere I have a newspaper article about the FBI being in Dallas and taking much of the day in their work.

(2/7/64 is also the "revision date" on the bottom of the FBI revised version of the SS Survey Plat of 12/5/63)

I did not ask Mr. West any questions in regards to the exact date that he was contacted to do the survey work for the FBI assassination re-enactment.

There were just too many other questions on my mind in regards to the various surveys and discrepancies/differences between them as well as questions regarding Mr. West return to Dealey Plaza to get the exact size and locations of the road signs and who requested this information/when?; extended discussions on the WC assassination re-enactment; discussions on the altered survey data; discussions on the later revised FBI Survey Plat of 6/25/64 which no one had ever heard of; etc; etc; etc;

Unfortunately for me, History will ultimately have to judge me harshly for not having the foresight and forethought to have attempted to record those conversations which I had with Mr. West, as they are of great importance in gaining a full understanding of the manipulations of the evidence in the assassination shot sequence and especially the completely "phony" Warren Commission assassination re-enactment work.

P.S. Anyone who is of the opinion that the WC was not fully aware of where the SS (12/5/63) as well as the FBI (2/7/64) stated as being the first shot impact point, should also take the time to review the WC's own evidence.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

[Thomas H. Purvis]

XXXXXXX:

Might I fully recommend that, in regards to any purported claim (by anyone) associated with the JFK assassination, that one remain a "die-hard" skeptic.

Especially in this day of the internet when one's self is exposed to so large an audience as well as being made a record for history.

It is far better to leave this earth and be remembered as a "designated skeptic" than it is to die and continue to be labeled as generally stupid and gullible.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The yellow marks on the curb are highly suspicious.

There have been numerous disscussion on this forum in regards to the "yellow marks" and their equi-distant spacing through the Kill-Zone.

And although these marks may have been completely prevelant throughout Dallas, they nevertheless also provided an excellent aid in "Target Acquisition" for anyone who would have been involved in shooting from the sixth floor window.

And especially, for "Scope Shooting".

that the limo slowed considerably and cannot be seen on the Z film are also compelling; the forceful forward motion of the Connallys and Greer and Kellerman in Z 320 or so, while Jackie remains incredibly stable is just not real, again, IMO.

As with the "yellow curb marks", the Limo speed (or lack thereof) has also been a full spectrum topic of discussion here.

In event that you (or anyone else) has never seen it, might I recommend my long ago published article which was allowed to surface, and which deals with the falsification of Survey Data as well as clearly demonstrating the complete falsehood of the WC's assassination re-enactment in regards to "Vehicle Speed".

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...&docId=4272

Kennedy Assassination Chronicles, Volume 7, Issue 3 pg 27

Found in: Kennedy Assassination Chronicles

Kennedy Assassination Chronicles Vol 7, Issue 3 2001 27 4e Fallacies of the Warren Commission Solution by Thomas Purvis from his unpublished work, There Is No Magic (published with special permission

I still cannot wrap my mind around the blood and brain matter that ends up all over Hargis and Martin. And after all, Jackie climbs onto the rear of the car to retrieve a piece of brain. In your post about shooting animals you seemed to reject the idea of “backsplatter” as a means to explain the forward projecting of blood from Z 313. Then how do Hargis and Martin get sprayed with blood and brain by a shot from the rear (Hargis, it seems was splattered by significant material)?

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&hl=Sputter

"Backspatter" to the rear, for an entrance wound into the skull, is normally an extremely fine "mist" of cerebral tissue with extremely little blood as the brain is not full of blood.

Large amounts (chuncks) of cerebral tissue, bone, and lead and copper bullet fragments which exit forward, are the result of a shot which impacted the rear of the skull.

If you will note the fantastic "comparative" work done, then you will also note that targets had to be held as close as six inches from the skull in order to even achieve any extremely/micro- indications of "BackSpatter".

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...9854entry159854

Post #5

Various analysis can then be applied that indicate that post headshot, as the limo moved along and the camera followed the limo passed through (with the help of wind) and left behind a tent like cloud.

(nice analysis John)

"You Don't Spit Into the Wind"!, for a reason!

P.S. The BOH damage to the skull, as found by the Parkland medical personnl, most assuredly existed. This damage to the rear (& rear base) of the skull has been fully discussed and explained on this forum as well.

In event that you would like this explained further, as well as a reference to where one can find these answers on the forum, then let me know.

Tom.

Three shots-----------Three hits! Exactly why would anyone think otherwise when the target is less than 100 yards distance for the longest shot; the target is moving away from the shooter in an almost direct straight line, at a slow rate of speed; the weapon is the equivelant in accuracy as the US Issue M-14 rifle (which is the basis for current sniper rifles), and the shooter has clearly demonstrated the shooting ability in the UPPER range of EXPERT when firing at targets of 500 yards distance and when firing from a fixed/stable firing platform.

Rest assured that "Skeptic Tom" has never fallen for nor believed in "THE SHOT THAT MISSED", nor the SBT.

And I am perhaps the worlds greatest skeptic!

Edited December 14, 2008 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

XXXXXX:

As indicated in the email, I did not have the foresight to ask Mr. West if he recalled the exact date in which the FBI made contact with his office in regards to being available for the 2/7/64 FBI assassination re-enactment and survey work in Dealey Plaza.

However, the attached handwritten notes may shed some light on exactly who was not communicating with whom at the time.

On 3/16/64, (the exact date that the autopsy surgeons were called to testify before the WC)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk..._Vol2_0178a.htm

SS Agent John Joe Howlett of the Dallas office contacted Mr. West with a request for information relative to the exact size and exact placement of two of the road signs in Dealy Plaza.

Mr. West took Paul D. Harding with him and went into Dealey Plaza and obtained this information for SS Agent Howlett.

In discussions with SS Agent Howlett, the subject of the FBI "change" to the survey plat was discussed and Mr. West, on his handwritten notes regarding the roadsign size & location, gave to SS Agent Howlett the change which the FBI had initiated in their 2/7/64 assassination re-enactment and survey.

The results being:

Shot#1 was left in the exact same position as that location determined by the SS.

Shot#2/aka Z313 (street elevation 418.35) was totally deleted, with the Second shot impact being now moved back up Elm St. a distance of 24.5 feet, which placed this impact prior to JFK having even passed the Moorman/Hill/Yellow curb mark location.

Shot#3/aka the Altgens impact location shot at stationing 4+95, remained in it's same location as determined previously and surveyed in for the US Secret Service.

With this information, SS Agent Howlett requested that Mr. West provide to him/his office a copy of the FBI Survey Plat with the changes which had been made.

====================================

Mr. West and I went through considerable discussion in regards to these handwritten notes and his reconstruction from memory the events which lead to the generation of so many survey plats and the "ever-changing" shot impact locations on these various plats.

Of course, the general public has never actually seen the full-size legible copy of the FBI Survey Plat, and was only made aware of it here on this forum, along with all of the other relatively critical information necessary to fit the pieces of the puzzle into place.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

NOT the SS Survey Plat of 12/5/63. In actualilty, the FBI survey plat of 2/7/64 with the change being made in the impact location for Shot#2, while Shot#3 remained at the SS determined location at survey stationing 4+95 (what was actually surveyed in)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

Thankfully, when one undertakes such an obfuscation of the facts and there exists massive documentation as to what the facts actually are, it is most difficult to make all things which have bearing on the subject, to completely disappear.

And, to do so only generates more questions as to the WHY?

SS--Second Shot/aka Z313 impact and Third Shot/aka Altgens impact.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4077-001.gif

Of course, not being complete idiots, the WC manipulators were aware that the Z313 impact could not be made to disappear due to a combination of reasons which included the Time/Life as well as SS Survey works in regards to the first yellow curb marking/aka Moorman/Hill location.

OK! So! If we can not make the Second/aka Z313 impact disappear, lets just move elsewhere.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

Let's just make the last shot disappear and now call the shot impact at elevation 418 (418.35)/aka the Z313 impact as the final shot impact in the assassination shot sequence.

"There is no Magic, However! Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear."

(Tom Purvis)

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges from the window ledge of a tower which is about 30 feet high. We used three firers in an attempt to obtain hits on all three targets within as short a time interval as possible.

I should make one comment here relative to the angular displacement of the targets. We did not reproduce these angles exactly from the map which we had been given because the conditions in the field were a little awkward for this. But the distance--the angular distance from the first target to the second was greater than from the second to the third, which would tend to correspond to a longer interval of time between the first and second impact than between the second and the third. The movement of the rifle was greater from the first to the second target than from the second to the third.

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, the figures which I gave Mr. Simmons are approximations and are not to be taken as the Commission's conclusive determination of what those distances are.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you explain your reference to a map? You have made several references to that.

Mr. SIMMONS. I refer to the survey plat which is dated December 5, 1963.

Mr. EISENBERG. And how were you supplied with that?

Mr. SIMMONS. To the best of my knowledge, you gave it to one of the employees in my office.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, this is a plat made by a licensed surveyor of the area immediately adjoining the Texas School Book Depository. I would like to introduce it into evidence solely to show the basis which Mr. Simmons was using in his test, and not for the truth, of the measurements which are shown in here.

Mr. McCLOY. It may be received.

Mr. EISENBERG. That would be Commission 585.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 585 and received in evidence.)

===========================================================================

Yep! And it is the in reality the FBI Survey Plat of 2/7/64 which shows the impact point for the Third Shot/aka Altgens shot, down at Stationing 4+95 with a slope/shooting range distance of 294 feet.

An impact location for the Second Shot some 24.5 feet prior to the actual Z313 impact location, with a slope/shooting distance of 242 feet.

So, the question being for Mr. Eisenberg, exactly where was it that you came up with the slope distance of 265 feet for impact of the last shot?

Could it be that you may have known that the slope/shooting distance to the Z313 impact was actually 267 feet, as determined during the SS Survey work?

Extremely nice of you to give the "240" foot slope/shooting distance, especially since the slope/shooting distance to the FBI "magically moved" impact location for the second shot was actually 242 feet.

===================================

MeThinks that someone let the cat out of the bag as to exactly who knew what, when!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The FBI Survey Plat for the 2/7/64 FBI assassination re-enactment.

Which was nothing more than the Survey Plat of the SS for their 12/5/63 (date of survey, re-enactment was on 12/3 & 12/4) in which the impact point for the Second Shot/aka Z313 was changed by the FBI.

This is from the copy of the survey in which Mr. West noted the change which the FBI had instigated and then sent the plat to SS Agent John Joe Howlett after the 3/16/64 discussion and Howlett's request for a copy of the FBI Survey Plat.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0068a.htm

"THE SHOT THAT MISSED"

=======================================================

For those who believed this, I have some good land; wonderful hunting dogs; excellent insurance policies and financial investments; encyclopedia's; as well as great vacuum cleaners and "good deal" magazine subscriptions that I would like to sell to them.

=======================================================

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm

Mr. LIEBELER - So, you were standing about where I placed the "X" on photograph No. 18 of Commission Exhibit No. 875. Tell me what you saw - tell me what happened to the best of your recollection.

Mr. HUDSON - Well there was a young fellow, oh, I would judge his age about in his late twenties. He said he had been looking for a place to park and he walked up there and he said he finally just taken a place over there in one of them parking lots, and he come on down there and said he worked over there on Industrial and me and him both just sat there first on those steps. When the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, we got up and stood up, me and him both. He was on the left side and I was on the right and so the first shot rung out and, of course, I didn't realize it was a shot, what was taking place right at that present time, and when the second one rung out, the motorcade had done got further on down Elm, and you see, I was trying to get a good look at President Kennedy. I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it hit him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear.

Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side?

Mr. HUDSON - Right hand.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg

Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was. Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. ===================================

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, it sounded like it was coming up from behind the car from my position--I mean the first shot, and being fireworks--who counts fireworks explosions? I wasn't keeping track of the number of pops that took place, but I could vouch for No. 1, and I can vouch for the last shot, but I cannot tell you how many shots were in between. There was not another shot fired after the President was struck in the head. That was the last shot--that much I will say with a great degree of certainty.

Mr. LIEBELER - Could you tell us approximately how many shots there were between the first and the last shot--as you well know--there were supposed to have been three shots, but how many shots did you hear?

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I wouldn't want to say--I don't want to guess, because facts are so important on something like this. I am inclined to feel like that there were not as many as I have heard people say. I think it's of a smaller denomination, a smaller number, but I cannot--I can really only vouch for the two. Now, I know that there was at least one shot in between.Mr. LIEBELER - At least one?

Mr. ALTGENS - I would say that--I know there was one in between. It is possible there might have been another one I don't really know, but two, I can really account for.

Mr. LIEBELER - And that's the first one and the last one?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - I don't know how many feet it moved, but it moved quite a ways from the time the first shot was fired until the time the third shot was fired. I'm having trouble on this Exhibit No. 203 understanding how you could have been within 30 feet of the President's car when you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and within 15 feet of the car when he was hit with the last shot in the head without having moved yourself. Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head.

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it.

Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z349.jpg

Mr. LIEBELER - The important thing is--it's not all that important as to how far you were away from the car at the time you took the picture--the thing that I want to establish is that you are absolutely sure that you took Exhibit No. 203 at about the time the first shot was fired and that you are quite sure also in your own mind, that there were no shots fired after you saw the President hit in the head.

Mr. ALTGENS - That is correct; in both cases.

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,

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http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

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http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4077-001.gif

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Lastly, anyone who is not operating with "ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE" (and/or a truckload of Bovine Feces/(BS) can figure this one out.

Especially when one takes into consideration the numerous other witnesses who also informed us that the Z313 impact was the SECOND SHOT in the shooting sequence.

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The concrete construction joints; the yellow curb marks; the photographic evidence which demonstrates these anomalies; when all taken into consideration with the witness statements/etc; will answer many of the unresolved questions in the 3-shots fired/3-hits to JFK assassination shooting sequence.

Mark, and those others who have recently emailed me;

Has this sufficiently explained the shooting sequence?

Can we move onward to something which is actually difficult to resolve?

Or, are you also part of the CIA/FBI/ONI/etc; etc; etc; "Big Conspiracy" and merely want to drag this out until such time as I am actually senile????

P.S. Gotta love anyone who could pull this ("THE SHOT THAT MISSED") one off!

P.P.S. Whoever it was that was so proficient at "colorizing" photo's may want to take a shot at the Cancellere photo which so clearly and distinctively shows the two yellow curb marks as well showing as the concrete steps/walkway on which Mr. Hudson was standing

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/...-1228947255.jpg

[Thomas H. Purvis]

XXXXX;

Actually!

Although part of the email posting response is in fact directed to you, there are a few others who are progressively "seeing the light" and continue to email me questions as well.

Therefore, not being one to keep secrets in this matter, I decided to post "around" these emails and attempt to share information with all.

Recognizing that there remain those who will always be lost and continue to chase myths and mythological creatures.

Hope you do not mind the open sharing of information?

Your determination of the importance of the March 16, 1964 date is of course quite correct.

And I might add, you have dug into this far more than did I.

While the world watched the "Watch Me Flag" of the autopsy surgeons testifying before the WC, Mr. West was back in Dealy Plaza gaining that information necessary to, utilizing the FBI Scale Model, know exactly where to move/relocate the road signs in Dealy Plaza to aid in their planned assassination re-enactment.

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One can take that to the bank!

Eisenberg was extremely instrumental as he was the one who appears to have been relegated to many obfuscations, which included the questioning of key witnesses AFTER the draft report was in fact completed and turned in.

Which basically eliminated several ("not-in-the-click") members of the WC from ever hearing about the last/Altgens shot.

However, what is absolutely provable is Eisenberg's "pre-knowledge" of items which could not have been unless he was attempting to cover/hide this information.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0139a.htm

1. On March 27, he gave the drawing to FBI Agent Robert Frazier which gave the street impact elevation of 418. (which is in reality for the Z313 impact).

The 12/5/63 SS Survey determined this impact elevation to be 418.35 (as was indicated in the West Note regarding discussion with Howlett as well as being shown on the actual SS Survey Plat.

Since the FBI Survey Plat of 2/7/64 did not show this location for impact of the second shot, then Eisenberg could not have known this information (to provide to Frazier) on 3/27/64 unless he had access to the SS Survey Information and survey plat.

2. Eisenberg is of course the one who gave Simmons a copy of "some" survey plat, although we actually have no true idea as to whether or not it was the SS or the FBI.

Nevertheless, Eisenberg let the cat out of the bag either way.

The FBI Survey plat does not demonstrate the 265 foot shot (actually 267-feet) for the Z313 impact, whereas the SS Survey Plat does.

So, irrelevant as to what survey plat Eisenberg actually showed to Simmons (one most assuredly can not trust the introduction into evidence of WC documents such as CE585), Eisenberg again indicated his "prior knowledge" of the 265-foot shot distance to the Z313 impact, as well as a "prior knowledge" of attempting to cover up/delete the final/third shot distance of 298-feet, in his changing/correcting the shot distances which he gave to Simmons.

3. Eisenberg also demonstrates his initial attempt to "sell" us the FBI Survey Information by having given Simmons the 240-foot shot distance, as this is in reality the distance (242-feet) to the "fudge factor" location which the FBI attempted to completely delete Z313 and move the Second Shot back up the street some 24-feet.

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes; we did. We placed three targets, which were head and shoulder silhouettes, at distances of 175 feet, 240 feet, and 265 feet, and these distances are slant ranges

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

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And, just as Gauthier was utilized to pull off the ever so "slight/sleight-of-hand" in regards to the altered survey data block (CE884)

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm

Mr. SPECTER. Would you produce the tracing at this time, please?

Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes; the tracing is wrapped, and sealed in this container.

Mr. SPECTER. Without breaking the seal, I will ask you if the cardboard which has been set up here--may the record show it is a large cardboard. I will ask you for the dimensions in just a minute.

Does the printing on the cardboard represent an exact duplication of the tracing which you have in your hand?

Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes

Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, we will mark the tracing Commission Exhibit No. 882, and not take it out, since the cardboard represents it, and place Commission Exhibit No. 883 on the cardboard drawing itself, and I would like to move for the admission into evidence of both Exhibits Nos. 882 and 883.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.

Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you a schedule which I have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 884 and ask you what figures are contained thereon.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 884 for identification.)

Mr. GAUTHIER. This is a copy of a tabulation which appears on the plat map.

It contains certain positions marked as frame numbers. It indicates elevations and a column dealing with angle of sight from the frame positions to the window and to a horizontal line.

It also contains angels of sight the degree of sight and distances from these positions to a point on the top of the bridge, handrail height.

Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, that concludes the description of the general setting.

I would like to move now at this time for the admission into evidence of Exhibit No. 884, which completes all of the exhibits used heretofore.

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In event one desires to find the answers to the JFK assassination, it can be found within the obfuscations of the evidence.

And I might add, one can not accomplish this merely by review of the WC documents, and must expend a little time; effort; and of course monetary considerations.

Or, one could merely look around Dealey Plaza, claim to see mythological creatures hiding all over, and then write another of those purported "factual" books in this regards.