Steve Rosen Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Timely article posted on MaryFerrell.org by Lamar Waldron: Many US Government Files about JFK and King Assassinations Still Secret http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...ns_Still_Secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Timely article posted on MaryFerrell.org by Lamar Waldron:Many US Government Files about JFK and King Assassinations Still Secret http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...ns_Still_Secret Thanks for those links Steve, and I applaud Lamar Waldron for calling on Congress to release the JFK assassination records Now, as we at COPA and the COA have been doing since the HSCA disbanded circa 1979. I have no problem with anything that he writes in the first half of his fine article, but then he has to get into RFK and his pet theory that the mafia hijacked a CIA/DOD plot to kill Castro (that RFK they say approved) and turned it on JFK. I too believe that the plots to kill Castro are instrumental in determining who killed JFK, but the Mafia couldn't and didn't hijack anything. Waldron has a bug up his but about RFK, and keeps reminding us that RFK was attorney general when his brother was killed, and that RFK was in charge of the Cuban Committee, and RFK was pushing to have the CIA do away with Castro, and RFK was the one who wanted to have the contingency plans for the assassination of US officials. But here he gives us, via Rex and Mary Ferrell (thanks Rex), two documents, one about John Martino (CD 657), which is only one page and is apparently missing others, as the last sentence isn't complete, and which there are no other known copies on line. Why give Rex one page of a multi-page document? Where's the rest of the beef? And then there's the document which he says supports the idea that RFK was pushing : "At the direction of Attorney General Robert Kennedy, a secretive sub-committee of the National Security Council began making plans for dealing with the possible "assassination of American officials" two months before JFK's murder, and the planning continued into November of 1963." But with no mention of RFK at all? Where's the "At the direction of Attorney General Robert Kennedy...." I just don't see it. NLK-78-473 - http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=306431 Now all of this falls quite neatly into the research I am doing on the Valkyrie at Dealey Plaza, in which JFK and RFK are asked to sign off and approve certain "contingency plans" for national emergency (that includes presidential assassination) and approval of specific covert maritime operations against Cuba that are directly connected to Dealey Plaza, but these involve the Department of Defense, JCS, State Dept. CIA and NSC, not the mafia. I believe the mafia, like the lone nut scenario, are both part of the original cover story, and are being used to deflect attention from those actually responsible for the assassination. The records that Waldman directs us to, Joint Chiefs, Califano, FitzGerald, are all extremely significant, but the idea that Traficante, Marcello, Roselli, Giancana, Martino et al., "hijacked" a plot to kill Castro and killed JFK, is merely a cover for those who did utilize one of the plot "contingency plans for a coup in Cuba" and used it to kill JFK. The mafia doesn't do black propraganda or Northwoods scenarios, while those within the government, those within the CIA/DOD Cuban operations office, did, and that's where the keys to Dealey Plaza are located, not with dead mafia dons. Bill Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Carlos Marcello confessed his role in killing JFK when he said that "I had the son of a bitch killed", according to this excerpt of an FBI document: http://www.legacyofsecrecy.com/documents.html As Lamar Waldron noted on this thread, that confession document is redacted. Unfortunately, the majority of the FBI's Marcello files are withheld. See Waldron's article at http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...ns_Still_Secret and Legacy of Secrecy. Was Marcello's confession exaggerated boasting or arrogant honesty? Was he a pawn or the king on the chessboard? Who - if anyone - above him was moving the pieces? Without the Marcello and CAMTEX sting operation documents released, it's difficult if not impossible to fully evaluate Marcello's involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Carlos Marcello confessed his role in killing JFK when he said that "I had the son of a bitch killed", according to this excerpt of an FBI document:http://www.legacyofsecrecy.com/documents.html As Lamar Waldron noted on this thread, that confession document is redacted. Unfortunately, the majority of the FBI's Marcello files are withheld. See Waldron's article at http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...ns_Still_Secret and Legacy of Secrecy. Was Marcello's confession exaggerated boasting or arrogant honesty? Was he a pawn or the king on the chessboard? Who - if anyone - above him was moving the pieces? Without the Marcello and CAMTEX sting operation documents released, it's difficult if not impossible to fully evaluate Marcello's involvement. Indeed Steve, We shouldn't be able to evaluate Marcello's involvment or make an honest judgement until ALL the records are released, but Waldron has already decided who is responsible and has assembled all the evidence that points to the mob, and indeed, many of the mob records remain withheld, but many other records remain withheld as well. Marcello's confession should be considered as much as James Files or Chauncey Holt, or anyone who makes claim to a crime decades after the fact. With as much as we know about Marcello, without seeing the still withheld records, we should be able to put the pieces in the puzzle - how Marcello framed Oswald, how he manipulated JFK and RFK into signing off on the national emergency contingency plans, how he got them to approve the maritime ops against Cuba that would be used at Dealey Plaza, how he controlled the communications of AF1 and the manipulated the autopsy and control of the Z film. But you can't connect the dots, as Marcello, like Traficante, and Rosselli, and Giancana, and Martino, and QJWINN, were all bit players in a bigger game in which the mafia were manipulated as much as Oswald. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Carlos Marcello confessed his role in killing JFK when he said that "I had the son of a bitch killed", according to this excerpt of an FBI document:http://www.legacyofsecrecy.com/documents.html As Lamar Waldron noted on this thread, that confession document is redacted. Unfortunately, the majority of the FBI's Marcello files are withheld. See Waldron's article at http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...ns_Still_Secret and Legacy of Secrecy. Was Marcello's confession exaggerated boasting or arrogant honesty? Was he a pawn or the king on the chessboard? Who - if anyone - above him was moving the pieces? Without the Marcello and CAMTEX sting operation documents released, it's difficult if not impossible to fully evaluate Marcello's involvement. Indeed Steve, We shouldn't be able to evaluate Marcello's involvment or make an honest judgement until ALL the records are released, but Waldron has already decided who is responsible and has assembled all the evidence that points to the mob, and indeed, many of the mob records remain withheld, but many other records remain withheld as well. Marcello's confession should be considered as much as James Files or Chauncey Holt, or anyone who makes claim to a crime decades after the fact. With as much as we know about Marcello, without seeing the still withheld records, we should be able to put the pieces in the puzzle - how Marcello framed Oswald, how he manipulated JFK and RFK into signing off on the national emergency contingency plans, how he got them to approve the maritime ops against Cuba that would be used at Dealey Plaza, how he controlled the communications of AF1 and the manipulated the autopsy and control of the Z film. But you can't connect the dots, as Marcello, like Traficante, and Rosselli, and Giancana, and Martino, and QJWINN, were all bit players in a bigger game in which the mafia were manipulated as much as Oswald. BK Bill & Peter, In radio interviews, Waldron has stated that Marcello made admissions to the FBI. Of course, that's not quite accurate, but sounds a lot more compelling than saying he was taped bragging to an FBI informant. And speaking of the taping... why is there a premium placed on the reliability of this informant when the confessions were taped??? Bill, I can only find myself agreeing with your analysis of the up and downsides of Waldron's book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Deitche Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 It is interesting the way the media treats Mafia assassination theories compared to those that involve the CIA. ] Hey, it's great for book sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 It is interesting the way the media treats Mafia assassination theories compared to those that involve the CIA. ] Hey, it's great for book sales. Hey Scott, What do you think of the thesis that the mafia - Roselli/Giancana/Traficante/Marcello mob were behind Dealey Plaza? And then what do you think of the (Waldron?) thesis that these mafia mobsters hijacked a plot to kill Castro that JFK/RFK had devised? As somone knowledge about the mob in Florida, you're opinion weighs more. Thanks, Bill Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) According to this report, Lamar Waldron's partner Thom Hartmann has left Air America. His shows are archived at this site, called the White Rose Society, which is named after the group of medical students who organized a leafleting campaign against the Nazis and were implicated in the July 20, 1944 Valkyrie plot to kill Hitler. So Thom, if not Lamar, should have been well aware of the Valkyrie details, and taken notice of the CIA/DOD plans to adapt them against Cuba. I'm also recalling that in John Martino's book, I Was Castro's Prisoner, I think he mentions that there was an anti-Castro counter revolutionary group in Cuba called the White Rose Society. It would be great if someone with that book could confirm that. Thanks, BK http://www.whiterosesociety.org/ ....Thom Hartmann has left the Air America Radio Network, and is now in the employ of Dial Global. As a consequence, I again have permission to present his archives and podcasts here. They should re-appear on this site within the next day or so (I am writing on Sunday, March 15th, 2009) and will be subject to a seven day embargo so as not to cannibalize podcast subscription sales which support Dial and which therefore support Thom's show. (Monday update - Last Monday's show has now been posted.) Again, thanks to all of you who have helped out with your gifts to help keep this going. I literally could not do this without you. -Ben Burch http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/wr.htm http://www.whiterosesociety.org/WRS_pamphlets_home.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose I found it: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:zg_U7-...=clnk&gl=us ...Joining the Cuban Rebel forces in 1957 or 1958, Morgan saw service in the Escambray and emerged as Fidel Castro's chief cloak-and-dagger man and one of the most spectacular confidence men and double-crossers of our day. In August 1959, he carried out two major agent-provocateur operations for Castro with conspicuous success. He convinced Dominican dictator Rafael Leonidas Trujillo that he was able to organize and lead a military insurrection that would overthrow the Castro regime. Reportedly, he got $200,000 from the Dominican political boss and, with Castro's connivance, lured Dominican mercenaries and anti-communist volunteers into a carefully prepared death trap. A few days earlier, he had betrayed the leaders of the White Rose society, the militant anti-Castro organization with which I was supposed to have been connected, to the Cuban secret police. As a result, 4,000 suspects were arrested and the backbone of what was at that time the most effective anti-Castro organization in Cuba was snapped.... Edited May 7, 2009 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 The recent movie "Sophie Scholl" http://www.amazon.com/Sophie-Scholl-Final-...h/dp/B000H5V8H2 does a good job of presenting the daunting task facing those who formed the White Rose Society and were martyrd for their couragous actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 HEY! BUT IS THERE A LEGITIMATE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE GERMAN WHITE ROSE SOCIETY AND THE CUBAN WHITE ROSE SOCIETY? I HAVEN'T SEEN ONE. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rosen Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Good article on Abraham Bolden from June 12, 2009: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-hartman...i_b_213834.html Edited July 16, 2009 by Steve Rosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) "Was he a pawn or the king on the chessboard?" Well, among mobsters, at least, some died of unnatural causes at HSCA time, and some lived on. If RFK could have head mobsters deported, to their displeasure, anyone more powerful and connected could eliminate them in a way that forestalled complaint. Did anybody complain about his lot, except Hoffa? Heck - did Nixon complain? Protest in a seemly way, yes... Edited July 16, 2009 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartman's efforts to get Congressional Oversight of JFK Act is honorable, as are his efforts to honor Abe Bolden and show how one of the plots to kill Castro was redirected to Dealey Plaza. But why do they have to keep harping on RFK, trying to blame him and JFK for the plots to kill Castro, and RFK for the plot that killed his brother? And why pin the blame on the Mafia when it can be shown that they didn't conduct black propaganda operations, run Northwoods, control the communcaitons and autopsy or cover up? Their role was auxillary, if used at all. And why keep glued to the Dec. 1st coup date, and why tie it to one guy - and why can't they acknowledge that their Number One suspect wasn't even in Cuba on that date? Why not take all the new info we have on the Mafia, plots and Cuba and develop a more truthful scenario, instead of rewinding a tired old theory that has been shown to be only partially correct? And that's because their primary sources, who they say were within the Kennedy administration, are the same guys who also engineered the "Contingency Plans for A Coup in Cuba," - Haig, Califano, McNamara, Bundy, all the guys on the inside of the coup plans they retargted to Dealey Plaza. For more, See Bolden Thead: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...rt=#entry169897 According to this report, Lamar Waldron's partner Thom Hartmann has left Air America. His shows are archived at this site, called the White Rose Society, which is named after the group of medical students who organized a leafleting campaign against the Nazis and were implicated in the July 20, 1944 Valkyrie plot to kill Hitler. So Thom, if not Lamar, should have been well aware of the Valkyrie details, and taken notice of the CIA/DOD plans to adapt them against Cuba. I'm also recalling that in John Martino's book, I Was Castro's Prisoner, I think he mentions that there was an anti-Castro counter revolutionary group in Cuba called the White Rose Society. It would be great if someone with that book could confirm that. Thanks, BK http://www.whiterosesociety.org/ ....Thom Hartmann has left the Air America Radio Network, and is now in the employ of Dial Global. As a consequence, I again have permission to present his archives and podcasts here. They should re-appear on this site within the next day or so (I am writing on Sunday, March 15th, 2009) and will be subject to a seven day embargo so as not to cannibalize podcast subscription sales which support Dial and which therefore support Thom's show. (Monday update - Last Monday's show has now been posted.) Again, thanks to all of you who have helped out with your gifts to help keep this going. I literally could not do this without you. -Ben Burch http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/wr.htm http://www.whiterosesociety.org/WRS_pamphlets_home.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose I found it: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:zg_U7-...=clnk&gl=us ...Joining the Cuban Rebel forces in 1957 or 1958, Morgan saw service in the Escambray and emerged as Fidel Castro's chief cloak-and-dagger man and one of the most spectacular confidence men and double-crossers of our day. In August 1959, he carried out two major agent-provocateur operations for Castro with conspicuous success. He convinced Dominican dictator Rafael Leonidas Trujillo that he was able to organize and lead a military insurrection that would overthrow the Castro regime. Reportedly, he got $200,000 from the Dominican political boss and, with Castro's connivance, lured Dominican mercenaries and anti-communist volunteers into a carefully prepared death trap. A few days earlier, he had betrayed the leaders of the White Rose society, the militant anti-Castro organization with which I was supposed to have been connected, to the Cuban secret police. As a result, 4,000 suspects were arrested and the backbone of what was at that time the most effective anti-Castro organization in Cuba was snapped.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Deitche Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 It's sad that two powerful and influential men like JFK and Hoffa - whatever their failings or antitheses - can be removed from public life in this country, while ridicule of persons who care about these events is the best that they can command in the press today, even when their absences call into question the nature of government and society. Hoffa was killed by the Detroit Mafia because of Teamsters/internal Mafia business. NO political motive there. He just pissed off the Giacalones and Tony Provenzano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Deitche Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 It is interesting the way the media treats Mafia assassination theories compared to those that involve the CIA. ] Hey, it's great for book sales. Hey Scott, What do you think of the thesis that the mafia - Roselli/Giancana/Traficante/Marcello mob were behind Dealey Plaza? And then what do you think of the (Waldron?) thesis that these mafia mobsters hijacked a plot to kill Castro that JFK/RFK had devised? As somone knowledge about the mob in Florida, you're opinion weighs more. Thanks, Bill Kelly I have not had a chance to read Legacy yet. I like the old school , 1"f" in Trafficante. The familial surname of Traficante in Sicily was changed to Trafficante after Santo Sr. emigrated to Florida through Ellis Island. Probably a slip of paperwork, but it stuck. I think there is certainly very many circumstantial pieces of evidence linking Marcello and Trafficante to Dealey's events. Problem is that everyone was playing together in the same sandbox and the dirt gets spread around. For me the complete invovlement of the Mafia does not account for enough of the plan to make it viable. Rather the Mafia's involvement as a subconsultant is more feasible IMO. Marcello, Trafficante, and Roselli were certainly in position to supply men (Santo had a virtual Cuban Mafia with him Miami full of refugee crime bosses from Havana), money, and connections. Trafficante was certainly happy about Kenendy's death as I spoke to eyewitnesses who saw him toasting the death many times the weeks after. Also, on a earlier post about Ralph Slaerno saying FBI wiretaps would have picked up any Mafia chatter- wiretaps were far from ubiquitous in 1962/63. Tampa had a few to none- there is no record of any wiretap of Trafficante from any where near that time period that I have found. I do not know enough about Marcello to make that same assertion for New Orleans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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