The tear in JFK's shirt

[David Andrews]

Not to be repetitive or a thread-ender, but the bullet hole in some shirt photos really looks close to the spine.

[William Kelly]

So are the nicks in the tie, shirt and neck made by a bullet or a scaple by someone in the emergency room removing the tie and shirt?

BK

William,

My belief is that they were made by a scaple at parkland hospital. My reasons are as follows.

1. P. 332 of Weisberg's post Mortem he describes the situation and the need to remove the shirt and tie. He suggests there was not time to undo the shirt and tie. He does comment that it was too dangerous to cut the collar button and that, that one was undone. It is not evidence but rational logical explanation

2. On P. 598 of Post Mortem [ where I found the quote I had been searching for ] Weisberg comments that Dr. Carrico confirmed his speculation.

3. On the same page he refers to Carrico's response to a question by Dulles. It is in volume 3. Basically it goes like this:-

Dulles asks where the wound was on on the throat. Carrico says near the tie. Then Carrico points on his neck to where the wound was. Dulles then says so you are pointing to a place above the shirt. Carrico says yes.

4. The importance of this point is exactly who Dr. Carrico is with regard to the parkland treatment of JFK: he was the first doctor to see him. And he was the first to see this wound and he saw it was above the shirt. Perry came in shortly afterwards and did the tracheotomy.

I don't think it is either possible or logical to consider that this bullet could cause the nick. Although the entry wound was near the shirt and tie I believe it was sufficiently above the shirt for it to be impossible to touch the tie. I believe Weisberg is right, it was done by the doctors as they were desperately removing Kennedy's clothes.

James.

The nick in the tie and the nick in the shirt were done by doctors removing Kennedy's clothes, but what about the nick in the neck, a pre-existing wound where the trec was made? That too?

BK

William,

I don't understand. What "nick in the neck" are you referring to?

James

The surgeons at Parkland cut a hole in JFK's throat to allow him to breath - although totally unnecessary seeing the hole in the head and the brains in their hands, yet they did a tracheotomy on an already existing hole they thought was an entrance wound of a bullet.

My question is, if the holes in the necktine and shirt were created by a doctor or nurse with a scaple while removing the tie and shirt, did they also cause the hole in the neck that was enlarged for the tracheotomy?

BK

[James R Gordon]

So are the nicks in the tie, shirt and neck made by a bullet or a scaple by someone in the emergency room removing the tie and shirt?

BK

William,

My belief is that they were made by a scaple at parkland hospital. My reasons are as follows.

1. P. 332 of Weisberg's post Mortem he describes the situation and the need to remove the shirt and tie. He suggests there was not time to undo the shirt and tie. He does comment that it was too dangerous to cut the collar button and that, that one was undone. It is not evidence but rational logical explanation

2. On P. 598 of Post Mortem [ where I found the quote I had been searching for ] Weisberg comments that Dr. Carrico confirmed his speculation.

3. On the same page he refers to Carrico's response to a question by Dulles. It is in volume 3. Basically it goes like this:-

Dulles asks where the wound was on on the throat. Carrico says near the tie. Then Carrico points on his neck to where the wound was. Dulles then says so you are pointing to a place above the shirt. Carrico says yes.

4. The importance of this point is exactly who Dr. Carrico is with regard to the parkland treatment of JFK: he was the first doctor to see him. And he was the first to see this wound and he saw it was above the shirt. Perry came in shortly afterwards and did the tracheotomy.

I don't think it is either possible or logical to consider that this bullet could cause the nick. Although the entry wound was near the shirt and tie I believe it was sufficiently above the shirt for it to be impossible to touch the tie. I believe Weisberg is right, it was done by the doctors as they were desperately removing Kennedy's clothes.

James.

The nick in the tie and the nick in the shirt were done by doctors removing Kennedy's clothes, but what about the nick in the neck, a pre-existing wound where the trec was made? That too?

BK

William,

I don't understand. What "nick in the neck" are you referring to?

James

The surgeons at Parkland cut a hole in JFK's throat to allow him to breath - although totally unnecessary seeing the hole in the head and the brains in their hands, yet they did a tracheotomy on an already existing hole they thought was an entrance wound of a bullet.

My question is, if the holes in the necktine and shirt were created by a doctor or nurse with a scaple while removing the tie and shirt, did they also cause the hole in the neck that was enlarged for the tracheotomy?

BK

William,

My answer to that ides is no.

The first doctor to see Kennedy was Charles Carrico. I believe that all that Carrico had time to do was unbutton and and begin to remove his jacket. As I understand it no surgery was done on the body until the other doctors and nurses arrived seconds later. And so the wound that Carrico referred to seeing was not created in Parkland hospital. When the shirt and tie were being removed, there is evidence in FOX 1 that they did indeed nick the body. But the wound that Carrico first saw was before any of that had happened. And before anyone at Parkland hospital had started to deal with the body.

Carrico and Perry are in agreement as to the nature of this wound. I not sure what instrument could have created such a wound. I doubt it would be a scaple.

Your point about the need to do the tracheotomy, at all, is a valid one. I have heard the doctors commenting on this impossible situation into which they were placed. They acknowledged that there was no way they were going to be able to save him. However I don't believe they even thought about that. When Kennedy arrived they simply made all possible attempt to save him even though, I suspect, they knew that was impossible.

James.