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Could we reach a compromise or Kompromiss on say, "Walküre" which is what the so called German resistance around Von stauffenberg would have called it. But, have to say, the whole thing brings does bring to mind a popular Clark Gable quote.

Bundy, Security Memo on Covert Cuban Operatsions; Sept. 24, 1963

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=20

THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

September 23, 1963

SECRET EYES ONLY

MEMORANDUM FOR MEMBERS OF THE SPECIAL GROUP

SUBJECT: Covert Operations Against Cuba – Securtiy Within the Government

As you know, in August the U.S. Government directed two “exile” raids against targets in Cuba. From the evidence now available, it appears that our security, with respect to U.S. participation in these operations, was excellent.

While there will always be public speculation as to the extent of U.S. involvement in raids of this type, I think we would all agree readily that it is important that there be only speculation and no direct knowledge. Unfortunately, the maintenance of a high degree of security is not a simple matter in view of the numbers of people within the Government who have to know a little or much about a U.S. – directed raid against Cuba.

For example, without counting CIA personnel and secretarial and staff personnel of other agencies, there were probably over 20 people in the Executive Branch who knew details of the August raids while many other people were generally acquainted with the U.S. involvement. Among others, the Navy knew where the attack boats were going; the Coast Guard, Customs, and INS knew about the “comings and goings” of the raiders; a few DOD people, who had to procure special equipment for the raids, could presumably surmise that something was going on somewhere and a few intelligence watch officers and press officers were told for their background, that the U.S. Government as aware of the raids.

I think there are two important, if obvious, security lessons we have learned from the August raids - - one, that it is in the nature of the problem that many people probably have to know something about such raids; and two, that these people apparently can maintain adequate security. At the same time, in view of the truth that security leaks were more likely to occur when substantial numbers of persons are involved, it seems essential to me that we constantly convey the high importance of security to others who are privy to information about our covert activities against Cuba. May I ask that members of the Special Group take such steps within their areas of authority as they think appropriate, and may I in particular urge that the Central Intelligence Agency, as executive agent for these enterprises, emphasize the importance of security to all those with whom it has necessary business on these matters, so that we can maintain the high level of security set in these recent operations.

Signed

McGeorge Bundy

Could this be the Bundy Cuban Security memo read to the JCS at the Sept. 24th meeting with FitzGerald that is mentioned in the Higgens memo?

The two approved raids that Bundy is talking about, I'm pretty sure, are the Aug. 18, 1963 raid at Puerto Casilda on the south coast of Cuba, an oil refinery I think, and the Aug. 19th bombing raid at Santa Lucia at Pinar del Rio.

Can anybody tell me more about these raids.

Thanks,

BK

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Could we reach a compromise or Kompromiss on say, "Walküre" which is what the so called German resistance around Von stauffenberg would have called it. But, have to say, the whole thing brings does bring to mind a popular Clark Gable quote.

Bundy, Security Memo on Covert Cuban Operatsions; Sept. 24, 1963

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=20

THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

September 23, 1963

SECRET EYES ONLY

MEMORANDUM FOR MEMBERS OF THE SPECIAL GROUP

SUBJECT: Covert Operations Against Cuba – Securtiy Within the Government

As you know, in August the U.S. Government directed two “exile” raids against targets in Cuba. From the evidence now available, it appears that our security, with respect to U.S. participation in these operations, was excellent.

While there will always be public speculation as to the extent of U.S. involvement in raids of this type, I think we would all agree readily that it is important that there be only speculation and no direct knowledge. Unfortunately, the maintenance of a high degree of security is not a simple matter in view of the numbers of people within the Government who have to know a little or much about a U.S. – directed raid against Cuba.

For example, without counting CIA personnel and secretarial and staff personnel of other agencies, there were probably over 20 people in the Executive Branch who knew details of the August raids while many other people were generally acquainted with the U.S. involvement. Among others, the Navy knew where the attack boats were going; the Coast Guard, Customs, and INS knew about the “comings and goings” of the raiders; a few DOD people, who had to procure special equipment for the raids, could presumably surmise that something was going on somewhere and a few intelligence watch officers and press officers were told for their background, that the U.S. Government as aware of the raids.

I think there are two important, if obvious, security lessons we have learned from the August raids - - one, that it is in the nature of the problem that many people probably have to know something about such raids; and two, that these people apparently can maintain adequate security. At the same time, in view of the truth that security leaks were more likely to occur when substantial numbers of persons are involved, it seems essential to me that we constantly convey the high importance of security to others who are privy to information about our covert activities against Cuba. May I ask that members of the Special Group take such steps within their areas of authority as they think appropriate, and may I in particular urge that the Central Intelligence Agency, as executive agent for these enterprises, emphasize the importance of security to all those with whom it has necessary business on these matters, so that we can maintain the high level of security set in these recent operations.

Signed

McGeorge Bundy

Could this be the Bundy Cuban Security memo read to the JCS at the Sept. 24th meeting with FitzGerald that is mentioned in the Higgens memo?

The two approved raids that Bundy is talking about, I'm pretty sure, are the Aug. 18, 1963 raid at Puerto Casilda on the south coast of Cuba, an oil refinery I think, and the Aug. 19th bombing raid at Santa Lucia at Pinar del Rio.

Can anybody tell me more about these raids.

Thanks,

BK

Also See This......Taken from Church Committee Boxed Files

Entitled Cuban Operation

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

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Could we reach a compromise or Kompromiss on say, "Walküre" which is what the so called German resistance around Von stauffenberg would have called it. But, have to say, the whole thing brings does bring to mind a popular Clark Gable quote.

Bundy, Security Memo on Covert Cuban Operatsions; Sept. 24, 1963

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=20

THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

September 23, 1963

SECRET EYES ONLY

MEMORANDUM FOR MEMBERS OF THE SPECIAL GROUP

SUBJECT: Covert Operations Against Cuba – Securtiy Within the Government

As you know, in August the U.S. Government directed two “exile” raids against targets in Cuba. From the evidence now available, it appears that our security, with respect to U.S. participation in these operations, was excellent.

While there will always be public speculation as to the extent of U.S. involvement in raids of this type, I think we would all agree readily that it is important that there be only speculation and no direct knowledge. Unfortunately, the maintenance of a high degree of security is not a simple matter in view of the numbers of people within the Government who have to know a little or much about a U.S. – directed raid against Cuba.

For example, without counting CIA personnel and secretarial and staff personnel of other agencies, there were probably over 20 people in the Executive Branch who knew details of the August raids while many other people were generally acquainted with the U.S. involvement. Among others, the Navy knew where the attack boats were going; the Coast Guard, Customs, and INS knew about the “comings and goings” of the raiders; a few DOD people, who had to procure special equipment for the raids, could presumably surmise that something was going on somewhere and a few intelligence watch officers and press officers were told for their background, that the U.S. Government as aware of the raids.

I think there are two important, if obvious, security lessons we have learned from the August raids - - one, that it is in the nature of the problem that many people probably have to know something about such raids; and two, that these people apparently can maintain adequate security. At the same time, in view of the truth that security leaks were more likely to occur when substantial numbers of persons are involved, it seems essential to me that we constantly convey the high importance of security to others who are privy to information about our covert activities against Cuba. May I ask that members of the Special Group take such steps within their areas of authority as they think appropriate, and may I in particular urge that the Central Intelligence Agency, as executive agent for these enterprises, emphasize the importance of security to all those with whom it has necessary business on these matters, so that we can maintain the high level of security set in these recent operations.

Signed

McGeorge Bundy

Could this be the Bundy Cuban Security memo read to the JCS at the Sept. 24th meeting with FitzGerald that is mentioned in the Higgens memo?

The two approved raids that Bundy is talking about, I'm pretty sure, are the Aug. 18, 1963 raid at Puerto Casilda on the south coast of Cuba, an oil refinery I think, and the Aug. 19th bombing raid at Santa Lucia at Pinar del Rio.

Can anybody tell me more about these raids.

Thanks,

BK

Also See This......Taken from Church Committee Boxed Files

Entitled Cuban Operation

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

According to Edward SUGGS, @ Jack MARTIN (not a reliable source) JOHNSON claimed to have a secret U S Senate document called the “Homme Report”. This report allegedly proves that Robert KENNEDY “had a contract out” on Fidel CASTRO at the time President Kennedy was assassinated...."

I have done some checking around, and believe that the following information will lead to what has previously been known as the Homme Report. In 1967 Edward Long's Senate Subcommittee On The Judiciary had the following persons who were either on Long's staff or testified before the Subcommittee, in the case of Gordon Homme Jr, it might have been in both capacities.

In essence, what I am saying is that the Homme Report may very well be simply Gordon Homme's testimony before Senator Long's Subcommittee in 1967....

I have discovered that the following persons served on the Subcommittee;

United States. Congress. Senate. Committee Hearings on the Judiciary - 1967

Also Present Bernard Fensterwald Jr., Chief Counsel H. Gordon Homme, Jr., assistant counsel; Bernard J Waters, Senator Dirksen’s Office, minority counsel; William G Ohlhausen and Kathryn Coulter Special Assistant

The Subcommittee met, persuant to recess, at 10:10 A.M. in Room 1114, New Senate Office Building

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZDGIAAAAMAAJ&q=

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZDGIAAAAM...dq=Gordon+Homme

Also on mary ferrell's website under the biography for the Dallas Morning News' Earl Golz, the following was written under mary's comments

On June 19, 1979, at 5:35 p.m., Tom M. Bush called Earl Golz and said he was with the State Department in the 50's and 60's and was involved with the Florida operations. He knew about the Castro assassination attempts by the government and said it was an open-ended offer. Claimed he had done some of the negotiating. Would he have known Lt. Commander John Gordon and/or Lt. JG Jack N. Modesett, Jr.?

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For people with Inquiring minds.........

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/Department of Defense/Joint Chiefs of Staff/Taylor Papers/

NARA Record Number: 202-10002-10091

Taylor and Felt from Harkins

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...oc.do?docId=111

From Gen Harkins

To Gen Taylor

Taylor Papers Box 43 Naval Message traffic from Gen Harkins to Gen Taylor and deaths of Diem and Nhu

Robert: Another interesting part of this angle is that unless I am mistaken some of the individuals associated with this are also key players in activities which took place at the climax of the Cuban Missile Crisis....but don't take my word for it.....

Also of interest is a comment made by John Newman not too long ago......

John Newman segment of interview

Q. - Is there any evidence or indication what the military leaders were up to this whole week, and what was Curtis LeMay doing on the 24th?

"I don't know and it's something that should be looked into. I mean you can see how interesting it is. You go anywhere, whether it's the Dallas police building, or inside the CIA it's a terrifically interesting story and I think that we have an ability to do that, and I think that might be a little harder. But what I did do is I went to a place called flag plot, the Navy op center inside the Pentagon, I've got three or four, in fact, Zumwald (sp?) is in charge, he mentions that, and I've got the Navy memoranda, by the way there are three boxes from ONI, and there should be a lot more, you're right, but at least they are nice boxes, DIA only gave us like (indicating, a small amount) that, but hey talk, the first thing you can see in the Navy memoranda, they reference the 10/10 Teletype from CIA, it's like 'READ THIS CABLE' cause its to Navy, and the FBI, and the State Department, but I think that it's an area that you know it's possible to do research on, but I don't have any answers for you.

http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/newman/newman_6b.html

Further musings om the Homme Report

The Earl Warren James Rowley meeting of 1967 could it be a link to the Homme Report?

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=150540

In late January 1967 Pearson told the Chief Justice that a Washington lawyer had told him that one of his clients said the United States had attempted

to assassinate Castro in the early 1960’s. Pearson responded that he preferred that the Secret Service rather than the FBI be notified...

The bottom line on the Warren/Rowley meeting, whether I am correct or not in speculation that there is a link to the Homme Report, is that the Washington lawyer could very well be Bernard Fensterwald, Jr., and that certain documents disappeared regarding this issue, down the proverbial rabbit hole.....

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Newman has covered the CIA, the DIA and ONI pretty well already. Even in this article he covers the CIA, the DIA and the ONI.

He is working on a new book, as I understand it at the present time. What is the title going to be?

"Oswald and Army Intelligence"

Why the heck do you think that Army Intel has released even less than the DIA? Because they are guilty as hell is why. More guilty

even, by far, than DIA, CIA and ONI all put together. And why do you think that Newman avoids investigating Army Intel? Because

he was a Major in the U.S. Army and you don't throw pig slop where you sleep is why.

Because Charles A. Willoughby and Douglas MacArthur were both sacked near the end of the Korean War and were technically

severed from service to the USA, they still kept up their contacts in the Army and both were just hiding in the weeds waiting to

get their revenge against Rusk, Acheson, Truman and most especially against JFK when he hired Rusk and Acheson once again.

There were at least 5-6 former Army Intel types seen in Dealey Plaza. FIVE OR SIX! Can you even name them? And don't try

to count General Edwin Lansdale as CIA or DIA either! He was in the Army Air Corps during WW II and worked closely with Willoughby

and MacArthur. Lansdale was, and always will be Army Intel.

What a damn shame that Newman knows where all the bodies are buried and exactly how and where to access all the critical

Army Intel documents and he chooses to do nothing! Has this not yet occurred to anyone else? Has he EVER filed a FOIA against

the Army Intel crowd? Never! Not one! His job like so many of the other "ditto heads" is to blame the CIA and ONLY the CIA!

Just like both Army types like Dr. Revilo P. Oliver and Charles Willoughby whose job it was to blame the CIA and exonerate the role

of ARMY Intelligence and former ARMY INTEL types. Is Army Intelligence an OXYMORON? No not at all! Look how they have

pulled the wool over the eyes of even some of the best researchers.

Revilo Oliver was a civilian cryptographer working for Army Intel. Why do you think that Condon used so much cryptography and

so many anagrams in ManCand? Ever think of that? Doubt it. He wanted to point out the obvious contributions of Dr. Revilo P. Oliver,

a John Birch founder, Church of the Creator member and Warren Commission interviewee. I still wonder why Dick Russell told me

that Revilo P. Oliver was dead when he was in fact still alive. Accident or not? Oliver is one of the 5 major keys to the entire JFK hit

because he crosses over from Army Intel, to the violent Church of the Creator crowd of the Ukrainian Rudy Stanko right through the

big wigs at the Dallas John Birch Society like Morris, Willoughby and Walker. The Church of the Creator founder even published

The White Man's Bible which I believe was referred to by Dick Russell's informant when the talked about something linked to WHITE

and BIBLE followed by THE MAN... as in THE MAN WHO COULD DO NO WRONG... General of the Armies Douglas MacArthur.

Maybe John Darwin, Charles' son, and Wickliffe Draper were right. Anyone who is genetically under-endowed regarding the need for high levels

of intelligence and analytical skills should not even try to understand this whole JFK conundrum. Do not try this at home boys and girls.

Edited by John Bevilaqua
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DOD ACCESS LIST PLAYERS

Cuba Planning 10/21/1963

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

Chairman’s Office

Gen Taylor

Maj Gen Goodpaster

Col Rogers

Mr R Day

Mr H P Kearney

Lt Col Smith

Director’s Office

VAdm Riley

Maj Gen Reynolds

Maj GenManhart

Col Erwin

Lt Col Hutchins

Lt Cdr Hilton

Maj Dorsey

Secretary’s Office

Brig Gen Ingelido

Col Forbes

Capt Law

Miss Ruth Hunter

SACSA

Maj Gen Krulak

Col Higgins

Col Wyman

Col Hawkins

Col Stozier

Capt Eggeman

Miss Grace Sciaoca

Miss Carolyn Kercheval

Miss Linda Sadler

Cpl Gould

DOD Executive Agent For Cuban Affairs

Secretary Vance

Mr Califano

Lt Col Haig

Miss Myrtle Davis

CINCLANT

Adm H.P. Smith

VAdm Needham

RAdm Leverton

Capt J E Pond

Capt F E Hartman

Capt L A Kurtz

Lt Col M A Foster, USAF

Cmdr F. J. Wikenhieser

Army

Gen Wheeler

Lt Gen Johnson

Maj Gen Alger

Col Blanchard

Col Bond

Lt Col Baldwin

Lt Col Woolerd

Lt Col Garrett

Miss Marie Nier

Miss Mary Hennig

Navy

Adm McDonald

VAdm Ward

VAdm Ramidge

RAdm Jackson

RAdm Taylor

RAdm Strean

Capt Packard

Capt Hatch

LCdr Bublitz

LCdr Saunders

Lt Dahl

Mr DeNille (CIV)

YNC Hoover

Air Force

Gen Lemay

Lt Gen Burchinal

Maj Gen Carpenter

Maj Gen Worden

Col Van Duyn

Lt Col Christensen

Lt Col Puchrik

Maj Stutzer

Miss Spruill

Marine Corps

GenShoup

Lt Gen Hayes

Lt Gen Green

Maj Gen Buse

Brig Gen Quilter

Col Simmons

Lt Col Finn

J-3

Maj Gen Unger

RAdm Chew

Capt Moody

Capt Turner

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

Lt General Johnson is an interesting name, if for no other reason than during General Maxwell Taylor's testimony during the Church Committee Hearings, he had difficulty remembering General Johnson's first name, compounding the fact was that Taylor said he met with Robert Kennedy everyday during a critical period of anti-Castro Operations, In RFK's biography Robert F Kennedy In His Own Words, there is no mention of this individual in his recollection of anti-Castro operations. My best guess is that unless he was referring to U. Alexis Johnson, who was not a General, and therefore not a logical choice he was referring to Brig Gen Charles E Johnson, but only if there was a promotion somewhere in the interim.

See

Letter to Brig Gen Charles E Johnson (AMBUD)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

Note there are only 1,620 Hits @ NARA under AMBUD, which has its own ties to Phase One Castro Assassination plots as well as the Office of Naval Intelligence.

Also See My thread on Maxwell Taylor's Deposition Testimony

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=161897

Edited by Robert Howard
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DOD ACCESS LIST PLAYERS

Cuba Planning 10/21/1963

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

Chairman’s Office

Gen Taylor

Maj Gen Goodpaster

Col Rogers

Mr R Day

Mr H P Kearney

Lt Col Smith

Director’s Office

VAdm Riley

Maj Gen Reynolds

Maj GenManhart

Col Erwin

Lt Col Hutchins

Lt Cdr Hilton

Maj Dorsey

Secretary’s Office

Brig Gen Ingelido

Col Forbes

Capt Law

Miss Ruth Hunter

SACSA

Maj Gen Krulak

Col Higgins

Col Wyman

Col Hawkins

Col Stozier

Capt Eggeman

Miss Grace Sciaoca

Miss Carolyn Kercheval

Miss Linda Sadler

Cpl Gould

DOD Executive Agent For Cuban Affairs

Secretary Vance

Mr Califano

Lt Col Haig

Miss Myrtle Davis

CINCLANT

Adm H.P. Smith

VAdm Needham

RAdm Leverton

Capt J E Pond

Capt F E Hartman

Capt L A Kurtz

Lt Col M A Foster, USAF

Cmdr F. J. Wikenhieser

Army

Gen Wheeler

Lt Gen Johnson

Maj Gen Alger

Col Blanchard

Col Bond

Lt Col Baldwin

Lt Col Woolerd

Lt Col Garrett

Miss Marie Nier

Miss Mary Hennig

Navy

Adm McDonald

VAdm Ward

VAdm Ramidge

RAdm Jackson

RAdm Taylor

RAdm Strean

Capt Packard

Capt Hatch

LCdr Bublitz

LCdr Saunders

Lt Dahl

Mr DeNille (CIV)

YNC Hoover

Air Force

Gen Lemay

Lt Gen Burchinal

Maj Gen Carpenter

Maj Gen Worden

Col Van Duyn

Lt Col Christensen

Lt Col Puchrik

Maj Stutzer

Miss Spruill

Marine Corps

GenShoup

Lt Gen Hayes

Lt Gen Green

Maj Gen Buse

Brig Gen Quilter

Col Simmons

Lt Col Finn

J-3

Maj Gen Unger

RAdm Chew

Capt Moody

Capt Turner

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

Lt General Johnson is an interesting name, if for no other reason than during General Maxwell Taylor's testimony during the Church Committee Hearings, he had difficulty remembering General Johnson's first name, compounding the fact was that Taylor said he met with Robert Kennedy everyday during a critical period of anti-Castro Operations, In RFK's biography Robert F Kennedy In His Own Words, there is no mention of this individual in his recollection of anti-Castro operations. My best guess is that unless he was referring to U. Alexis Johnson, who was not a General, and therefore not a logical choice he was referring to Brig Gen Charles E Johnson, but only if there was a promotion somewhere in the interim.

See

Letter to Brig Gen Charles E Johnson (AMBUD)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

Note there are only 1,620 Hits @ NARA under AMBUD, which has its own ties to Phase One Castro Assassination plots as well as the Office of Naval Intelligence.

Also See My thread on Maxwell Taylor's Deposition Testimony

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=161897

From the can you be more specific, department.......and with thanks to Dick Russell

In the United States George Willoughby and Lev Dobriansky were the two leading supporters of the ABN, the ABN had been based in Munich and the group’s founder was Jaroslav Stetzko......Dobriansky, was a Ukranian American and an OSS officer in Germany during World War II, was chairman of the Republican National Committee’s chairman of the Ethnic/Nationalities/Heritage Groups Division.

An instructor at the [u S] Army's National War College in 1958 Dobriansky had been named a lieutenant colonel in the U.S Army Reserve's mysterious 352nd Division for Military Government Civilian Affairs.

This was according to The Ukrainian Bulletin, the only such reserve unit of its kind concerning itself "with military government administration and supervision of countries with populations over 25 million people.”

The apparent foreknowledge of the German newspaper Deutsche National Zietung’s und Soldaten-Zietung allegation that Oswald had fired at General Edwin Walker before the story had ever become a matter of record revealed a linkage between persons in the ABN and Munich, Germany before the assassination of President Kennedy. After the assassination it was revealed that General Walker had been in telephone contact with Gerhard Frey, who was closely tied to the Ukrainian ABN as well as to Dr Theodore Oberlander and Walter Becher.

Dick Russell also discovered that National Zeitung “had several ex-Nazis and ex-SS men on its staff and a long arm into American far-right circles”

Although it is speculation, contemplation that this "network" extended into organizations such as CUSA and possibly individuals such as Weismann and Burley is as tantalizing a possibility as one can imagine, as it would, in many persons estimation tie together some loose ends in the conspiracy to assassinate the President in 1963, that is if you are not a coincidence theorist.

What is also known is that mention of the name "Oswald" in Germany before the assassination is also a documented fact. See my posts re German court case ignored by American newspapers Anton Erdinger.....As documented by the Warren Commission Rudolf Steiger reported that Anton Erdinger said, "If Oswald gets a hold of him he (JFK) is finished," sometime around President Kennedy’s speech in Berlin, German on June 26th 1963. See WCD 817

Sources for above The Man Who Knew Too Much pages, 316, 254; by Russell, Dick (1992)

also see google books

The Ukrainian bulletin, Volumes 1-3 By Ukrainian Congress Committee of America, Pan-American Ukrainian Conference

as well as my own posts regarding Anton Erdinger.

What makes the above material even more interesting is that among the material at NARA are two documents, which indicate they are still classified.

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/15187/jfksnew.txt

179-40004-10315 NEMYLIWSKY, WALTER, SUMMARY FROM UKRAINIAN POSTPONED IN FULL

179-40007-10214 LOT 85D275: RECORDS RELATING TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD POSTPONED IN FULL

Robert: So what do we know about Walter Nemyliwsky? He was the author of a book entitled The Sinners, a book which seems to have never been translated into English, it does not show up on google books

See mail Recieved June 16, 1964

Part of this book can be found at the link below on page 28

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=58992

Genealogically speaking, there is reason to believe that the words "hospital and Toronto," factor in the equation.

Edited by Robert Howard
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To which my next response would be, not buying that either; for if such material did exist, the desired action of assassinating President Kennedy and eliminating Castro by a accompanying invasion would have the de facto Cuban involvement in the assassination, that in my view, has never existed!

Draw your own conclusions.

I suppose when Kennedy's Assassination happened, that was a Puerto Rican with his arm up (as seen in Zapruder and some photos), telling the limo driver, William Greer, where to stop. The "kill zone," if you will. The alterationists had to leave him and the Umbrella Man in Zap's film because photos were taken from across the street.

Yes, the "dark-complected man" was a Cuban Exile. Who else would he be? A stray Mexican?

Kathy C

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The apparent foreknowledge of the German newspaper Deutsche National Zietung’s und Soldaten-Zietung allegation that Oswald had fired at General Edwin Walker before the story had ever become a matter of record revealed a linkage between persons in the ABN and Munich, Germany before the assassination of President Kennedy. After the assassination it was revealed that General Walker had been in telephone contact with Gerhard Frey, who was closely tied to the Ukrainian ABN as well as to Dr Theodore Oberlander and Walter Becher.

Dick Russell also discovered that National Zeitung “had several ex-Nazis and ex-SS men on its staff and a long arm into American far-right circles”

Although it is speculation, contemplation that this "network" extended into organizations such as CUSA and possibly individuals such as Weismann and Burley is as tantalizing a possibility as one can imagine, as it would, in many persons estimation tie together some loose ends in the conspiracy to assassinate the President in 1963, that is if you are not a coincidence theorist.

Robert,

as someone who has done an enormous amount of digging in this area, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

The DMN ran the German story as a supplement some time after the German newspaper ran it. I believe that this was the whole reason for feeding the story to the German paper from the outset. Why? Because by merely reproducing the German article, they would avoid defamation charges which might have applied had they ran it as there own story.

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The apparent foreknowledge of the German newspaper Deutsche National Zietung’s und Soldaten-Zietung allegation that Oswald had fired at General Edwin Walker before the story had ever become a matter of record revealed a linkage between persons in the ABN and Munich, Germany before the assassination of President Kennedy. After the assassination it was revealed that General Walker had been in telephone contact with Gerhard Frey, who was closely tied to the Ukrainian ABN as well as to Dr Theodore Oberlander and Walter Becher.

Dick Russell also discovered that National Zeitung “had several ex-Nazis and ex-SS men on its staff and a long arm into American far-right circles”

Although it is speculation, contemplation that this "network" extended into organizations such as CUSA and possibly individuals such as Weismann and Burley is as tantalizing a possibility as one can imagine, as it would, in many persons estimation tie together some loose ends in the conspiracy to assassinate the President in 1963, that is if you are not a coincidence theorist.

Robert,

as someone who has done an enormous amount of digging in this area, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

The DMN ran the German story as a supplement some time after the German newspaper ran it. I believe that this was the whole reason for feeding the story to the German paper from the outset. Why? Because by merely reproducing the German article, they would avoid defamation charges which might have applied had they ran it as there own story.

Astute observation, and although I hadn't contemplated that angle.....I think you nailed it......

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The apparent foreknowledge of the German newspaper Deutsche National Zietung’s und Soldaten-Zietung allegation that Oswald had fired at General Edwin Walker before the story had ever become a matter of record revealed a linkage between persons in the ABN and Munich, Germany before the assassination of President Kennedy. After the assassination it was revealed that General Walker had been in telephone contact with Gerhard Frey, who was closely tied to the Ukrainian ABN as well as to Dr Theodore Oberlander and Walter Becher.

Dick Russell also discovered that National Zeitung “had several ex-Nazis and ex-SS men on its staff and a long arm into American far-right circles”

Although it is speculation, contemplation that this "network" extended into organizations such as CUSA and possibly individuals such as Weismann and Burley is as tantalizing a possibility as one can imagine, as it would, in many persons estimation tie together some loose ends in the conspiracy to assassinate the President in 1963, that is if you are not a coincidence theorist.

Robert,

as someone who has done an enormous amount of digging in this area, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

The DMN ran the German story as a supplement some time after the German newspaper ran it. I believe that this was the whole reason for feeding the story to the German paper from the outset. Why? Because by merely reproducing the German article, they would avoid defamation charges which might have applied had they ran it as their own story.

Astute observation, and although I hadn't contemplated that angle.....I think you nailed it......

Well, I thought it might fit with where you're going...

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  • 1 month later...
The apparent foreknowledge of the German newspaper Deutsche National Zietung’s und Soldaten-Zietung allegation that Oswald had fired at General Edwin Walker before the story had ever become a matter of record revealed a linkage between persons in the ABN and Munich, Germany before the assassination of President Kennedy. After the assassination it was revealed that General Walker had been in telephone contact with Gerhard Frey, who was closely tied to the Ukrainian ABN as well as to Dr Theodore Oberlander and Walter Becher.

Dick Russell also discovered that National Zeitung “had several ex-Nazis and ex-SS men on its staff and a long arm into American far-right circles”

Although it is speculation, contemplation that this "network" extended into organizations such as CUSA and possibly individuals such as Weismann and Burley is as tantalizing a possibility as one can imagine, as it would, in many persons estimation tie together some loose ends in the conspiracy to assassinate the President in 1963, that is if you are not a coincidence theorist.

Robert,

as someone who has done an enormous amount of digging in this area, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

The DMN ran the German story as a supplement some time after the German newspaper ran it. I believe that this was the whole reason for feeding the story to the German paper from the outset. Why? Because by merely reproducing the German article, they would avoid defamation charges which might have applied had they ran it as their own story.

Astute observation, and although I hadn't contemplated that angle.....I think you nailed it......

Well, I thought it might fit with where you're going...

To which my next response would be, not buying that either; for if such material did exist, the desired action of assassinating President Kennedy and eliminating Castro by a accompanying invasion would have the de facto Cuban involvement in the assassination, that in my view, has never existed!

Draw your own conclusions.

I suppose when Kennedy's Assassination happened, that was a Puerto Rican with his arm up (as seen in Zapruder and some photos), telling the limo driver, William Greer, where to stop. The "kill zone," if you will. The alterationists had to leave him and the Umbrella Man in Zap's film because photos were taken from across the street.

Yes, the "dark-complected man" was a Cuban Exile. Who else would he be? A stray Mexican?

Kathy C

Message to Kathleen Collins

When I referenced no Cuban Involvement in the assassination, it was in the context of Fidel Castro's intelligence services being a prime mover in that event. It never occurred to me to think someone would misinterpret my comment to state Cuban's, especially of the anti-Castro ilk, were not involved when it is one of the most obvious facets of the assassination. If you had understood what I had wrote in the first place, I doubt you would have felt the need to make your post.

But thanks for your input, sarcastic comment, notwithstanding.

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The apparent foreknowledge of the German newspaper Deutsche National Zietung’s und Soldaten-Zietung allegation that Oswald had fired at General Edwin Walker before the story had ever become a matter of record revealed a linkage between persons in the ABN and Munich, Germany before the assassination of President Kennedy. After the assassination it was revealed that General Walker had been in telephone contact with Gerhard Frey, who was closely tied to the Ukrainian ABN as well as to Dr Theodore Oberlander and Walter Becher.

Dick Russell also discovered that National Zeitung “had several ex-Nazis and ex-SS men on its staff and a long arm into American far-right circles”

Although it is speculation, contemplation that this "network" extended into organizations such as CUSA and possibly individuals such as Weismann and Burley is as tantalizing a possibility as one can imagine, as it would, in many persons estimation tie together some loose ends in the conspiracy to assassinate the President in 1963, that is if you are not a coincidence theorist.

Robert,

as someone who has done an enormous amount of digging in this area, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this:

The DMN ran the German story as a supplement some time after the German newspaper ran it. I believe that this was the whole reason for feeding the story to the German paper from the outset. Why? Because by merely reproducing the German article, they would avoid defamation charges which might have applied had they ran it as their own story.

Astute observation, and although I hadn't contemplated that angle.....I think you nailed it......

Well, I thought it might fit with where you're going...

By far the most important person in the whole ABN orbit was Yaroslaw Stetsko also spelled several different ways. His ABN is given credit

by Jon and Scott Anderson for being the "other half" which merged with the Asian People's Anti-Communist League to form WACL. And lest we

forget, it was actually me who made the discovery about ABN and DNZ, Gerhard Frey, Theodor Oberlander, Yaroslaw Stetsko and their relationship to the U.S. organizations like CUSA, not Dick Russell. It all began when I discovered a copy of the ABN Journal with names like Willoughby, Walker and Stetsko on the masthead of the Foreign Intelligence Digest. Even Spas T. Raikin showed up as the leader of some of their conferences where Raikin introduced Stetsko from the podium after he obviously organized these meetings. Raikin tried to trivialize or minimize his contributions to the ABN and to WACL but I was not buying it at all. And I was the only person to call up Spas T. Raikin to quiz him on these relationships.

You have to examine the role of Bogdhan Stashinsky in murdering 2 of Stetsko's closest friends to fully understand ABN, WACL and the JFK hit.

Stephan Bandera and Dr. Lev Rebet are the persons snuffed by Stashinsky who was also from Minsk, Belorussia. It is highly likely that the time

Oswald spent in West Berlin on the way to the S.S. Maasdam and Hoboken, where Raikin was waiting for him, was spent looking for either Stetsko

or one of his associates from ABN in order to kill them using The Stashinsky Gun. Both Bandera and Rebet were killed in West Berlin by Stashinsky in fact in 1957 and 1959. This scenario is the only one which explains how Raikin could have known exactly which boat Oswald was on and when he was going to arrive in Hoboken, NJ. At that point Otto Otepka approved Oswald's re-entry into the USA even though the defector file of LHO was sitting on Otepka's desk. Otepka had to know about Oswald and his programming as an assassin through Willoughby and Morris who later

served as Otepka's lawyer after he was fired from the State Dept. after the Walt Rostow security clearance hearings when Otepka leaked classified documents to... none other than Senators James O. Eastland and Thomas Dodd. After the JFK hit, Dodd went to West Berlin to interview Stashinsky who was still in prison for these two murders. Dodd was censured by the Senate for spending taxpayer money for this junket as sort

of a warning about sticking his nose in someone else's business, mainly Eastland.

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  • 4 months later...

Roger Hilsman.

To those familiar with author John M. Newman's epic works, Oswald and the CIA and JFK and Vietnam, particularly with regards to the latter, Roger Hilsman was a key JFK Administration figure, who weighed heavily in decisions affecting US Foreign policy in regards to Vietnam, as well as Cuba. He was also the author of

To Move A Nation: The Politics of Foreign Policy in the Administration of John F Kennedy, [1964, 1967]

When searching NARA there are at least 42 documents in which Hilsman is listed, it appears several of these are still classified.

At least some of theses include

177-10001-10465

177-10001-10455

177-10001-10468

Ostensibly, at least some of these documents state the reason for their still being classified

is due to the fact that they "need subject assigned."

One of the documents, 177-10001-10468 contains, under Record Series

NSF, COUNTRY FILE, VIETNAM ADDENDUM, ROGER HILSMAN (VIETNAM-DIEM)

Hilsman's book is illuminating, although it is difficult to get a truly conclusive

factual understanding of his personal viewpoint regarding JFK's reticence to commit ground troops

to SE Asia, unlike some key figures such as Lyman Lemnitzer.

He is on record as stating his belief regarding future JFK policy regarding Vietnam.

President Kennedy made it abundantly clear to me on more than one ocassion that what he most wanted to

to avoid was turning Vietnam into an American war. He was skeptical of a policy of escalation and of

the effectiveness of an air attack on Vietnam.

See page 536 "If Kennedy Had Lived," from To Move A Nation.

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/7897/jfksnew.txt

The purpose of this post is not to resurrect the debate about what would have happened

in Vietnam after

11/22/63, but to hopefully speed up the FOIA process regarding Hilsman related documents,

such as those under Hilsman's name.

There is also a "Cuba 1963" document listed under Hilsman that is not classified, which could

provide information hitherto unknown.

See 176-10030-10246.

Edited by Robert Howard
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