Jump to content
The Education Forum

Madeleine Brown Interview With Robert Gaylon Ross


Guest Duncan MacRae
 Share

Recommended Posts

I spoke with Madeleine many times for hours. She is the most sincere and honest

of any witnesses I spoke with. The details of her stories were intricate and never

changed. She spoke of many details I knew to be true. We were acquainted with

many of the same people in DFW advertising circles.

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I spoke with Madeleine many times for hours. She is the most sincere and honest

of any witnesses I spoke with. The details of her stories were intricate and never

changed. She spoke of many details I knew to be true. We were acquainted with

many of the same people in DFW advertising circles.

Jack

On reflection, after being pointed to this Dave Perry Aticle On Madeleine Brown by Gary Mack, I think she can be added to the ever growing list of non truth tellers, unless someone knows otherwise?

Duncan MacRae

Gee Duncan, you're easily swayed.

Can I interest you in a bridge in Brooklyn?

Dave Perry owns a piece of it.

COPA has had meetings at the Adolophis Hotel in November ever year now for a decade, but you wouldn't know that from reading the Dallas newspaper.

Dave Perry thinks reading back issue newspapers is research, and his conclusion that there was no party at the Adolphis because there was no mention of it in the papers, or Tony Zopi's society entertainment column, then it didn't happen.

And thanks for that tidbit on Dave Perry being Gus Russo's college mate, Jack. That makes sense. On the flip side, I'm sure he says the same thing about me and John Judge.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Duncan:

Perhaps you are not aware.....that as far as the books and information is concerned....

Madeleine's as well as Jean Hill's.........

Madeleine's you will note on the front cover is credited as author, she was not...

The information within came to Harrison Livingstone from interviews, working with her..

but the book was by Livingstone, and published by him......Madeleine once stated that

she received no monies from such, no profits whatever, and that some information

within was in her opinion, not according to what she had related to him....He had made

changes...so of course as with Jean's, when watching a video, one sees the differences

which at times are a reversal, and can leave a "say what ??"....

The same as with Jean Hill's book, you will notice on the cover of hers, Bill Sloan is

credited, With Jean Hill....that is how Madeline's also should have been, titled..

....Sloan wrote that book, from information supplied to him by Jean

and she also in a taped interview has stated that he added some and made changes

not to her liking, as some information within was not correct....

It is not too often all the witnesses fault, when changes have occurred though there are and have been times,

when direct quotes from later interviews have been found to have added much further information, as the

years went by....

But mainly if and when researched and the information relating to is found, and

tabulated.......The changes and such, apparently have come from the providers of such....who then of course have

and do put

their own spin on such....As I have seen many times, that is where the big problem arises, so often...and still does

now...

Dave Perry has made a name for himself and continues to do so , at any opportunity apparently...by continuing his misinformation,

he has the darndest habit, of leaving anything pertaining to the truth and verification of said information out of such, a bad habit he

has deliberately planned and aquired.........and he will not cease.....as others have and are doing....today..

They shoot the messengers, ( witnesses ) deliberately using their "thinkies" and in this case Madeleine was such...

FWIW......

Below is a photo of Madeleine and her Steven with LBJ shown standing behind them.....at a dinner event....

edited...."spullin mistooks corected..." :lol:

B.....

Edited by Bernice Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Duncan:

Perhaps you are not aware.....that as far as the books and information is concerned....

Madeleine's as well as Jean Hill's.........

Madeleine's you will note on the front cover is credited as author, she was not...

The information within came to Harrison Livingston from interviews, working with her..

but the book was by Livingston, and published by him......Madeleine once stated that

she received no monies from such, no profits whatever, and that some information

within was in her opinion, not according to what she had related to him....He had made

changes...so of course as with Jean's, when watching a video, one sees the differences

which at times are a reversal, and can leave a "say what ??"....

The same as with Jean Hill's book, you will notice on the cover of hers, Bill Sloan is

credited, With Jean Hill....that is how Madeline's also should have been, titled..

....Sloan wrote that book, from information supplied to him by Jean

and she also in a taped interview has stated that he added some and made changes

not to her liking, as some information within was not correct....

It is not too often all the witnesses fault, when changes have occurred though there are and have been times,

when direct quotes from later interviews have been found to have added much further information, as the

years went by....

But mainly if and when researched and the information relating to is found, and

tabulated.......The changes and such, apparently have come from the providers of such....who then of course have

and do put

their own spin on such....As I have seen many times, that is where the big problem arises, so often...and still does

now...

Dave Perry has made a name for himself and continues to do so , at any opportunity apparently...by continuing his misinformation,

he has the darndest habit, of leaving anything pertaining to the truth and verifeid of said information out of such, a bad habit he

has deliberately planned and aquired.........and he will not cease.....as others have and are doing....today..

They shoot the messengers, ( witnesses ) deliberately using their "thinkies" and in this case Madeleine's was such...

FWIW......

Below is a photo of Madeleine and her Steven with LBJ shown standing behind them.....at a dinner event....

B......

Bernice is correct about Madeleine's "book". The original typewritten manuscript was about 30 pages.

She gave me as well as Jim Marrs copies of it in the hope that we could find a publisher for her.

I contacted the Fort Worth printer who published Jim Moore's book, and they said they were not interested.

I think Jim contacted his agent. Apparently she also gave a manuscript to Harry Livingstone, and he expanded

on her brief manuscript, and published it, using her manuscript, his research, and conversations with

her to make it book length. They were to split any "profits". A dispute arose when she saw what he

had written and did not agree with parts of it. She told me that she never received a cent from Harry.

He did keep her title TEXAS IN THE MORNING and the story behind the title. I don't remember him

using her stories or photos about the sideshow freak of the man with the gigantic phallus, but she

compared Lyndon to him.

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Duncan:

Perhaps you are not aware.....that as far as the books and information is concerned....

Madeleine's as well as Jean Hill's.........

Madeleine's you will note on the front cover is credited as author, she was not...

The information within came to Harrison Livingston from interviews, working with her..

but the book was by Livingston, and published by him......Madeleine once stated that

she received no monies from such, no profits whatever, and that some information

within was in her opinion, not according to what she had related to him....He had made

changes...so of course as with Jean's, when watching a video, one sees the differences

which at times are a reversal, and can leave a "say what ??"....

The same as with Jean Hill's book, you will notice on the cover of hers, Bill Sloan is

credited, With Jean Hill....that is how Madeline's also should have been, titled..

....Sloan wrote that book, from information supplied to him by Jean

and she also in a taped interview has stated that he added some and made changes

not to her liking, as some information within was not correct....

It is not too often all the witnesses fault, when changes have occurred though there are and have been times,

when direct quotes from later interviews have been found to have added much further information, as the

years went by....

But mainly if and when researched and the information relating to is found, and

tabulated.......The changes and such, apparently have come from the providers of such....who then of course have

and do put

their own spin on such....As I have seen many times, that is where the big problem arises, so often...and still does

now...

Dave Perry has made a name for himself and continues to do so , at any opportunity apparently...by continuing his misinformation,

he has the darndest habit, of leaving anything pertaining to the truth and verifeid of said information out of such, a bad habit he

has deliberately planned and aquired.........and he will not cease.....as others have and are doing....today..

They shoot the messengers, ( witnesses ) deliberately using their "thinkies" and in this case Madeleine's was such...

FWIW......

Below is a photo of Madeleine and her Steven with LBJ shown standing behind them.....at a dinner event....

B......

Is that Lady Bird looking over her shoulder?

BK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would very much like to believe Madeleine Brown, because I believe that she was LBJ's mistress, and my first look at her son's picture (as an adult) told me I was looking at Johnson, Jr.

I have to reserve judgment on the party story, though, until someone refutes the discrepancies in time and circumstances that have been raised, and for the other misdated events such as the Adolphus Hotel meeting. If that's been done, I would like to read it.

I'm aware that people on this site whose work I respect have more positive feelings, and I respect what they took away from their experience of Madeleine Brown.

Edited by David Andrews
Link to comment
Share on other sites

David:

There has been done down through the many years much research re Madeleine's information......

The fact that she was , one of LBJ's mistresses, ( lasting many years ) was and has been verified

by Secret Secret , reporters, and close associates..of both.....she and LBJ.......

It will take you a great deal of time and research to get to the bottom of such, but it is available.....if one has such...

For now......

B....

Edited by Bernice Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Bill...

That is not the Lady Bird, but I believe she was close by....if I recall correctly.. :lol:

Lady Bird was well aware,of Madeleine and others, to the point when after LBJ died, she eventually had his wishes changed...

will ignored....

According to his will, when he died Madeleine was to continue to receive a small cheque, by comparison to his wealth,

a few hundred dollars..for support....each month, that had always been handled through one of his lawyers..

after his death, Lady Bird had it cut off, through her power, make it so or heads would roll..

you get the drift...

B.....

Edited by Bernice Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

David:

I did a quick look....and found the Figaro Article from around 96, 98....from a post I did some

years back on another F...It has been some time since I did the research...

You may be interested in the following, the party according to witnesses did take place, and there were and

are witnesses, a couple

were still alive in Dallas, a few years back though they still refuse to come forward...though one did so...which is

understandable, knowing the reach.......and the wall within Dallas, pertaining to information which as

I have found still persists to this day..no matter what some may say, I know better...as I have run

into that brick wall......

He LBJ did have a first cousin, who if one did not know, was a dead ringer for him and he did use him as a stand

in at times...that is another story....

There have been some threads and information posted here on the SF in the past, as well

as much downing, and attacking

of her information which seemingly always follows.......I have no idea

how much of it, or if it is still available...

JFK: Truth of a conspiracy

Madeleine Brown is barely 23 when she falls for Lyndon Johnson’s

charm. This Texan romance, filled with improvised meetings, unkept

promises and quick but intense embrace, spanned more than two decades.

But Madeleine was more than just one of the 36th president’s many

conquests. In fact, on December 27, 1950, she gives birth to Steven:

one more career secret for this ambitious politician. Johnson’s son

died in 1990. Since, Madeleine Brown, liberated from her imposed

discretion, decided to share her memories of her time spent with the

president. Without anger or need for revenge, still deeply in love

with her Lyndon but very aware of historical accuracy, she proves her

relationship by presenting passionate love notes written by Johnson as

well as the letter from a Texas lawyer confirming the continuing

financial support for Steven’s education after Lyndon’s death.

But a powerful man’s intimate portrait becomes a loaded

testimonial when she refers to the relationship between LBJ and JFK

and describes Johnson’s role in the November 1963 Kennedy

Assassination.

Madeleine Brown - It’s very moving for me to meet you here at the

Adolphus Hotel in Dallas. It’s here that, about 50 years ago, I met

Lyndon for the first time.

Figaro Magazine - I imagine that this evening is forever engraved

in you.

MB - Oh yes I was 23 and still had my baby face. At the time I

was working for the Glenn advertising agency a few steps away from the

Adolphus. At the end of September 1948, Jesse Kallen, director of KTNC

Radio in Austin, a close friend of Lyndon Johnson, invited me to a

party given in honor of all those who had contributed to his electoral

campaign. He was running for senator against Coke Stevenson.

FM - It’s the ballot 13 election, right? The one that was rigged?

MB - Yes that was the one. Ballot 13 gave Lyndon victory. It was

rapidly noticed that even the dead had voted, but it was to late.

Lyndon was already in Washington. It’s funny that Johnson made it to

Washington thanks to election fraud.

FM - So you met Lyndon that night for the first time?

MB - Yes. When LBJ walked in the room it was so intense. He was

so charismatic. The whole room gravitated towards him. I noticed him

right away and I was seduced. He was a typical Texan-both feet on the

ground, smiling, warm and terribly sexy. Jesse introduced us and I

danced with Lyndon. It was so overwhelming to be in his arms. There

was so much in the way we looked at each other. He invited me to

another party at the Driskill Hotel in Austin.

FM - Do you remember the date?

MB - Of course. It was October 29, 1948. After two dances, he

asked me to go up and wait for him in his suite. He met up with me an

hour later and it’s that night that I became his mistress for the next

21 years.

FM - This illicit relationship with a married man must have been

hard to deal with.

MB - Our relationship was hidden, no one was to know. Jesse

Kellan, one of the advertising firm’s clients, was our cover-up. At a

moment’s notice, he would warn me of Lyndon’s arrival and of the hotel

room number where I was to meet him. I waited there to share these

short moments with the man I loved. I knew always that he would never

be mine. But these moments are not only nostalgic - our meetings were

essentially sexual. We both enjoyed it. He was a wonderful lover.

FM - What was his reaction like when he found out that you were

expecting a child?

MB - He was worried. He was so terribly ambitious and wanted to

accede to the country’s top position. He was afraid the Mafia or

someone else would find out that he was the father of my child and

that this would be used against him. He asked me to keep this a

secret. Even my own parents could never find out. He promised me that

he would give my child whatever he needed.

FM - Steven was born on December 27, 1950. For 40 years you kept

silent. Why do you choose to speak now?

MB - Lyndon is no longer alive and I lost my son in 1990. The

circumstances of his death, the rampant cancer, caused me to speak up.

I had to talk of Dallas and the power of Texas on Washington politics.

Lyndon was created by two millionaires from here, H.L.Hunt and Sid

Murchinson.

FM - You know them?

MB - Yes. You know, in the 50’s and 60’s Dallas was a small city.

You just had to be part of the right crowd. I was lucky enough to be

at the right place at the right time. For example, I saw Hunt every

morning. We parked our cars side by side in the lot.

FM - What kind of man was he?

MB - Sure of himself. He knew the power of money. He believed in

Lyndon even if he was himself an ultraconservative. The funniest thing

is that he didn’t look like a millionaire. People who didn’t know him

thought he was this poor old man.

FM - What did he think of Kennedy?

MB - He hated him. After Lyndon’s defeat in 1960 at the

democratic convention and the choice of JFK as candidate, he said that

he had lost a battle but that he was going to win the war. A few days

before JFK was to come to Dallas, Hunt put up posters against the

president in his car. He was proud of that and was afraid of no one.

FM - Did you also know Jack Ruby?

MB - Like everyone else here. It was impossible not to know him.

If you met him on the street and you didn’t know him, he would come up

to you and give you his club card. Often after work we would meet

friends there to play cards.

FM - Did Hunt go to Ruby’s club?

MB - Sometimes. Hunt was an avid poker player and Jack would set

up these great games for him. At the time, Jack could organize

anything as long as it was illegal. He was everywhere. He knew

everyone in the Dallas Police Department. He too hated Kennedy.

FM - Before November 22, 1963, did he speak of Kennedy’s visit to

Dallas?

MB - About 10 days before it was announced in the papers, Jack

came to our table. He was proud to have a map of the President’s route

through Dallas. All the while, we weren’t aware that Kennedy was even

coming to Dallas. He was always the first to know everything.

FM - What was your reaction when Ruby killed Oswald?

MB - I thought right away that he was there because someone had

asked him to and he had no choice but to do it.

FM - Coming back to Lyndon Johnson. What was his reaction like

when he was defeated in 1960?

MB - He was so disappointed. He wanted so much to become

president, not to mention that he hated the Kennedy’s with a passion.

It was a terrible set back. Every time he spoke of John or of his

brother Bobby it was with such vehemence, calling them Irish bastards

and even worse! But honestly, the Kennedy’s made his life difficult

and hated Lyndon just as much.

FM - What was Lyndon like in 1963?

MB - He was anxious, very worried. He was involved in all kinds

of business and was convinced that Kennedy would not keep him on the

presidential ticket in 1964. He was afraid everything would stop. I

felt that every time we met, he could escape all that for a few hours.

FM - You told me you saw Lyndon on November 21, 1963. Is that

right?

MB - Perfectly. It was a surprise. I was invited to a party at

Murchison’s Dallas residence. The party was given in honor of Edgar

Hoover, the FBI’s chief. Richard Nixon was there. John McCloy, a

future member of the Warren Commission was there also. Lyndon arrived

late. I didn’t even know he was there. He, Hunt and others immediately

locked themselves in a room for a ten minute conference. When Lyndon

came out he spotted me. He seemed so angry and had a dreadful look on

his face. He came up to me and whispered: "After tomorrow, those damn

Kennedy’s will never stand in my way again. That’s not a threat, it’s

a promise". I’ve never forgotten that.

FM - What was your reaction?

MB - I didn’t really react. I couldn’t imagine that his words

would ever ring true. Lyndon was extremely angry with JFK. It was just

one more time. The next morning, four hours before the assassination,

I spoke to Lyndon on the phone at the hotel where he stayed with

Kennedy. He told me the same thing again and I told him we’d see each

other again and I would make him forget whatever plagued him.

FM - I hope you realize the impact of what you are implying.

You’re implicating the vice-president in the crime of the century.

MB - I don’t know if Lyndon was the instigator of this crime. It

could be. All I know is what he told me on the 21st and repeated on

the 22nd. About a month after, I had wanted to know for sure so I

asked him if he was involved in the Kennedy murder. He got so angry

that I regretted ever bringing it up. Then he told me (You know my

friends - they killed him.) He was talking of those millionaires.

FM - He didn’t say anything else?

MB - No and I never brought it up again. But I would like to tell

you this about Hunt. A few minutes after the assassination, he went to

Washington to give Lyndon a hand. When he came back a little before

Christmas, he was a totally different man. Like an incredible weight

was lifted off his shoulders. One day, he told me, smiling, (We’ve won

the war) I’m sure he was referring to Kennedy.

End..

Within my research now, my thinking is, it is for what anyone may make of it,

and is up to the individual ..You cannot tell people what to believe, they will

have, and do make up their minds.....as they should........

I will and have shared much down through the years.

manys a time simply to be ignored, run down, info then distorted whatever...

let alone a thanks...that it appears

is so difficult for some to simply say............and I noticed

and do appreciate yours...

I do think that is all that is required, txs......when anyone

makes an effort to find within their information and takes the time to to post whatever information,

photos etc......

that another is in search for...I have and do as it is not diffcult.....and it should be

appreciated by those who do ask...but.....

..As I have seen even when presented as sound and documented as well as

verified as much as possible.......research .....

There are still those who are so ready to ignore, and shoot down with both barrels,

and to tell you the truth I can no longer be bothered providing for them, to then make their changes,

to the information, nor tolerate their attitudes who take research with such a for granted cavalier attitude...

and end up putting forth simply thinkies...

Just the way it is ...there one of my few b.tchys ..... :lol: for now..

This below is Jimmy and Steven her two sons, not a clear photo, I did mean to scan again a long time back

but was not completed....so for whatever...

B.....

Edited by Bernice Moore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that interview, Bernice. I had not seen it. It corresponds with the

story she always told.

We will never know the details, but I have NO DOUBT that the party happened.

We always need keep in mind that OFFICIAL STORIES may not be the truth.

Since a SECRET MEETING took place at the party, why should anyone expect

to know how it happened?

Jack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I wish some researcher with access to records and witnesses would vindicate this woman and her book from Dave Perry's contradictions and other detractors, especially in the timing of the "Box 13 campaign" party and the "Murchison" party.

I wish M. Brown had done more in her own defense. I have no uncertainty that she was placed to hear secrets, nor that she kept one - Johnson's son. But let's at least reconcile disputed accounts of time and place.

I can see how Brown might have had knowledge of the Box 13 issue before Perry says she could. Johnson's ballot thieves had their pictures taken, famously, leaning on the hoods of cars covered with stolen ballot boxes - the photo's in Robert A. Caro's volume on Johnson's rise to power. So the Johnson camp may have been smirking about Box 13 before it became a scandal in the press, and Brown may have picked up on this.

She may well have one night heard Johnson smirk about never being embarrassed by the Kennedys again, too.

Edited by David Andrews
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I wish some researcher with access to records and witnesses would vindicate this woman and her book from Dave Perry's contradictions and other detractors, especially in the timing of the "Box 13 campaign" party and the "Murchison" party.

I wish M. Brown had done more in her own defense. I have no uncertainty that she was placed to hear secrets, nor that she kept one - Johnson's son. But let's at least reconcile disputed accounts of time and place.

I can see how Brown might have had knowledge of the Box 13 issue before Perry says she could. Johnson's ballot thieves had their pictures taken, famously, leaning on the hoods of cars covered with stolen ballot boxes - the photo's in Robert A. Caro's volume on Johnson's rise to power. So the Johnson camp may have been smirking about Box 13 before it became a scandal in the press, and Brown may have picked up on this.

She may well have one night heard Johnson smirk about never being embarrassed by the Kennedys again, too.

It doesn't matter what M. Brown says.

She can be proven to be a lier and her son not DNA connected to LBJ, and LBJ would still be a dispicipale, beligerant, power hungry, son-of-a-bitch, who had foreknowldge of the assassination and knew exactly who was responsible for him assuming the powers of the presidency.

Lady Bird, on the other hand, from those who have worked directly with her, was a wonderful women, and those close to her are still very loyal, though they admit to the above description of LBJ.

BK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...