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Probable Cause: ReThinking of the JFK Plot by Robin Haines


John Simkin
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Bill,

The first thing I looked at the other day was "Flinders U" in Australia. It seems it is a legitimate, government sponsored institution of higher learning. I was disappointed that it did not fall apart like a "cheap suit", as in my quick takes on shill orgs, like Heritage Foundation, Manhattan Institute, techcentralstation, etc., usually and quickly do when poked and prodded...

Yes, Flinders University is a serious University in Oz, however that doesn't mean all grads are. Since the gradual destruction of Goughs (coup, 1975) free education for all, many institutions set aside places for the monied who in effect end up buying their degree, regardless of matric scores. There are also other ways to move through the post school institutions and faculties within, for example a relatively simple entry to an arts degree, can lead to a skip to law in second year. I started in civil eng, then hopped over to computer science and an archaeology aimed double major (then dropped out, turned on and try to tune in). One may start in a smaller perhaps private institution and hop into a major uni or vice versa.

However that doesn't say anything about the authors creds. The book should to some extent, and even then, as William appears to try to get across, even the silliest can come across stuff of interest. (Usually these end up as interlibrary-loanables through the main Oz library. (I'll check and order it through that if poss. (don't hold yer breath, got a boat trailer to recondition + + + ....)).)

edit:typo

Edited by John Dolva
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Why not get Robin Haines to join us an you can express your disbelief to her and see if she can explain it.

I will do that. She is going to send me a book for review.

I haven't read the new book but I read "Deception in Dallas." Save your money. Not only is it barely over 100 pages, it achieves that length only by using large type and triple-spacing. This book is the "Plan 9 from Outer Space" of assassination literature. No research, nothing new, and an incoherent, barely literate, writing style.

Gary,

Can you summerize it in fewer words then?

What does she mean that JFK committed suicide when he signe off on Executive Orders?

Also, is this the same Robin Haines who wrote serious historical research on Australia and was a visiting professor at Flinders University?

Is that a legitimate institution?

Thanks,

BK

I took another look at this book. The writing is a slightly better than I remembered it earlier but it is still not a very good book. I do no believe that Haines is an historian. The biographical note says that she graduated high school and has worked in many jobs in various industries.

Basically Haines argues that the assassination was not a crime but a legitimate and necessary covert action and was approved in writing by JFK himself. There is no evidence presented to support this. Kennedy is portrayed as physically and mentally ill, a psychopath really, and a clear and present danger to the country and the world. His assassination was therefore legally and morally justified. Haines believes that David Phillips, Richard Helms and E. Howard Hunt were behind the assassination. She also notes that as of the writing of Deception in Dallas (2001) all three were alive, although in fact Phillips died in 1988. Oops. Kennedy was forced or manipulated into approving his own assassination, and into signing an Executive Order, probably by Helms. No evidence is given to support this.

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Why not get Robin Haines to join us an you can express your disbelief to her and see if she can explain it.

I will do that. She is going to send me a book for review.

I haven't read the new book but I read "Deception in Dallas." Save your money. Not only is it barely over 100 pages, it achieves that length only by using large type and triple-spacing. This book is the "Plan 9 from Outer Space" of assassination literature. No research, nothing new, and an incoherent, barely literate, writing style.

Gary,

Can you summerize it in fewer words then?

What does she mean that JFK committed suicide when he signe off on Executive Orders?

Also, is this the same Robin Haines who wrote serious historical research on Australia and was a visiting professor at Flinders University?

Is that a legitimate institution?

Thanks,

BK

I took another look at this book. The writing is a slightly better than I remembered it earlier but it is still not a very good book. I do no believe that Haines is an historian. The biographical note says that she graduated high school and has worked in many jobs in various industries.

Basically Haines argues that the assassination was not a crime but a legitimate and necessary covert action and was approved in writing by JFK himself. There is no evidence presented to support this. Kennedy is portrayed as physically and mentally ill, a psychopath really, and a clear and present danger to the country and the world. His assassination was therefore legally and morally justified. Haines believes that David Phillips, Richard Helms and E. Howard Hunt were behind the assassination. She also notes that as of the writing of Deception in Dallas (2001) all three were alive, although in fact Phillips died in 1988. Oops. Kennedy was forced or manipulated into approving his own assassination, and into signing an Executive Order, probably by Helms. No evidence is given to support this.

Hey Gary,

Thanks for looking at it again.

Maybe it isn't the same Robin Haines who wrote the books about Australia?

http://www.allbookstores.com/author/Robin_Haines.html

While National Security Action Memos (NSAM) seem to be more significant, and some are still secret today - ie Four Leaves - Executive Orders are not secret and well known.

JFK issued a lot of Executive Orders, but a few stand out that could be significant, or what she is talking about, even if she's a fanatic.

If there was a cabal within the administration bent on replacing JFK as president, and they utilized the Valkyrie plan, first as a contingency against Castro and then redirecting it against JFK (as less fanatical Waldron/Hartman/AMWORLD suggests), then they did get JFK to sign off on new emergency powers.

In looking at JFK's ExOrders, a few stand out - specifically those signed on February 26, 1963, when JFK signed a record high eleven ExOrders, nine of which delt specifically with assigning emergency prepardness functions, beginning with 174 - 110087 thru - 110095.

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/jfkeo/exodates.htm

She might be nuts but she's not crazy.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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Why not get Robin Haines to join us an you can express your disbelief to her and see if she can explain it.

I will do that. She is going to send me a book for review.

I haven't read the new book but I read "Deception in Dallas." Save your money. Not only is it barely over 100 pages, it achieves that length only by using large type and triple-spacing. This book is the "Plan 9 from Outer Space" of assassination literature. No research, nothing new, and an incoherent, barely literate, writing style.

Gary,

Can you summerize it in fewer words then?

What does she mean that JFK committed suicide when he signe off on Executive Orders?

Also, is this the same Robin Haines who wrote serious historical research on Australia and was a visiting professor at Flinders University?

Is that a legitimate institution?

Thanks,

BK

I took another look at this book. The writing is a slightly better than I remembered it earlier but it is still not a very good book. I do no believe that Haines is an historian. The biographical note says that she graduated high school and has worked in many jobs in various industries.

Basically Haines argues that the assassination was not a crime but a legitimate and necessary covert action and was approved in writing by JFK himself. There is no evidence presented to support this. Kennedy is portrayed as physically and mentally ill, a psychopath really, and a clear and present danger to the country and the world. His assassination was therefore legally and morally justified. Haines believes that David Phillips, Richard Helms and E. Howard Hunt were behind the assassination. She also notes that as of the writing of Deception in Dallas (2001) all three were alive, although in fact Phillips died in 1988. Oops. Kennedy was forced or manipulated into approving his own assassination, and into signing an Executive Order, probably by Helms. No evidence is given to support this.

Gary & Bill,

I dropped out of high school at 14 so I know bugger all about universities, but my belief is that Flinders is one of the most respected universities in this country. As for Ms Haines, I found this on the uni website:

Flinders historian Dr Robin Haines launched a book centred on the crucial role of medical superintendents of 19th century migrants, Doctors at Sea: Emigrant Voyages to Australia in the Victorian Era. Dr Haines also sat on the panel that discussed "The tyranny of history".

http://www.flinders.edu.au/news/news-artic...E1-97F6E0C4A7C5

I have also read a few pages of her book (not sure now which one) at Amazon. I won't knock her for the length of the book because I don't want to equate page numbers with quality, but the print was indeed large - which I found a little off-putting. However it was the quality of the writing and editing which really let it down. It was by any standard, abysmal.

Her other books are on the type of subject matter you'd expect from someone in her position, and the reviews of them seem positive.

Not sure how all of that squares with two apparently poorly written works on the JFK case.

As for her theory, didn't Shanet Clark espouse something similar insofar as it being a legal hit?

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Bill,

The first thing I looked at the other day was "Flinders U" in Australia. It seems it is a legitimate, government sponsored institution of higher learning. I was disappointed that it did not fall apart like a "cheap suit", as in my quick takes on shill orgs, like Heritage Foundation, Manhattan Institute, techcentralstation, etc., usually and quickly do when poked and prodded...

Yes, Flinders University is a serious University in Oz, however that doesn't mean all grads are. Since the gradual destruction of Goughs (coup, 1975) free education for all, many institutions set aside places for the monied who in effect end up buying their degree, regardless of matric scores. There are also other ways to move through the post school institutions and faculties within, for example a relatively simple entry to an arts degree, can lead to a skip to law in second year. I started in civil eng, then hopped over to computer science and an archaeology aimed double major (then dropped out, turned on and try to tune in). One may start in a smaller perhaps private institution and hop into a major uni or vice versa.

However that doesn't say anything about the authors creds. The book should to some extent, and even then, as William appears to try to get across, even the silliest can come across stuff of interest. (Usually these end up as interlibrary-loanables through the main Oz library. (I'll check and order it through that if poss. (don't hold yer breath, got a boat trailer to recondition + + + ....)).)

edit:typo

I think there are two Robin Haines, one Robin F. Haines, who writes about history,

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/137896.Robin_F_Haines

And then there's Robin Haines, author of Probable Cause (Author House)

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemD...px?bookid=41872

Two different authors, I would think.

Two different styles.

Two different publishers.

Two different people.

BK

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I think there are two Robin Haines, one Robin F. Haines, who writes about history,

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/137896.Robin_F_Haines

And then there's Robin Haines, author of Probable Cause (Author House)

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemD...px?bookid=41872

Two different authors, I would think.

Two different styles.

Two different publishers.

Two different people.

Bill,

if the above is correct, then Flinders has two Robin Haines associated with it.

http://authortree.com/9781425982980

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I think there are two Robin Haines, one Robin F. Haines, who writes about history,

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/137896.Robin_F_Haines

And then there's Robin Haines, author of Probable Cause (Author House)

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemD...px?bookid=41872

Two different authors, I would think.

Two different styles.

Two different publishers.

Two different people.

Bill,

if the above is correct, then Flinders has two Robin Haines associated with it.

http://authortree.com/9781425982980

Greg,

I would think only one, and I don't know if its a he or a she, but I don't think they are affiliated with Flinders anymore.

The link you provide sells Probable Cause by Robin Haines, but the web site was probably put together by someone who got it off the web, from another bookseller, like Barnes & Noble, who list the Australian books along with the two JFK books as if they are by the same author, but they too, I believe make the same mistake.

The Author House, self-publishing web site would promote, at least in the press release, that the author has also published the other historic works, by mainstream presses, that are much more academic than the JFK assassination books, according to Gary.

I would also think the book Gary has would also mention the other works by the same author.

It is odd that there isn't more on the Robin Haines of academia.

It's pretty arcane to write a book about the JFK assassination that few have ever heard of, and taking the position that we killed the bastard and he deserved it, but its really arcane to also write a book about the daily lives of 18th century ship surgeons.

I say they're different people with the same name.

And I'm so sure I'd bet a case of Fosters on it.

BK

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I think there are two Robin Haines, one Robin F. Haines, who writes about history,

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/137896.Robin_F_Haines

And then there's Robin Haines, author of Probable Cause (Author House)

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemD...px?bookid=41872

Two different authors, I would think.

Two different styles.

Two different publishers.

Two different people.

Bill,

if the above is correct, then Flinders has two Robin Haines associated with it.

http://authortree.com/9781425982980

Greg,

I would think only one, and I don't know if its a he or a she, but I don't think they are affiliated with Flinders anymore.

The link you provide sells Probable Cause by Robin Haines, but the web site was probably put together by someone who got it off the web, from another bookseller, like Barnes & Noble, who list the Australian books along with the two JFK books as if they are by the same author, but they too, I believe make the same mistake.

The Author House, self-publishing web site would promote, at least in the press release, that the author has also published the other historic works, by mainstream presses, that are much more academic than the JFK assassination books, according to Gary.

I would also think the book Gary has would also mention the other works by the same author.

It is odd that there isn't more on the Robin Haines of academia.

It's pretty arcane to write a book about the JFK assassination that few have ever heard of, and taking the position that we killed the bastard and he deserved it, but its really arcane to also write a book about the daily lives of 18th century ship surgeons.

I say they're different people with the same name.

And I'm so sure I'd bet a case of Fosters on it.

BK

Bill, what you say does make sense insofar as it explains the quality of writing issue. I just read some more of the JFK book through Amazon.

According to author:

JFK agreed to be killed and signed an Executive Order to that effect.

Oswald was a genuine Leftist.

Maurice Bishop was Howard Hunt.

Ruby was a Kennedy man thru and thru.

From my further reading, I conclude that not only are you correct, but I'll take it one step further -- this person is an All-American loop-de-loop - not Australian.

An apology is owed to Robin F Haines and to Flinders University. That apology should come from places like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Robin Haines and Authorhouse for allowing buyers to be deceived as to the credentials of the actual author (you were right about that, too - Amazon etc have linked Robin F Haines to this book...)

Bet against an Irishman where alcohol is concerned? To you think I'm totally crazy????

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I think there are two Robin Haines, one Robin F. Haines, who writes about history,

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/137896.Robin_F_Haines

And then there's Robin Haines, author of Probable Cause (Author House)

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemD...px?bookid=41872

Two different authors, I would think.

Two different styles.

Two different publishers.

Two different people.

Bill,

if the above is correct, then Flinders has two Robin Haines associated with it.

http://authortree.com/9781425982980

Greg,

I would think only one, and I don't know if its a he or a she, but I don't think they are affiliated with Flinders anymore.

The link you provide sells Probable Cause by Robin Haines, but the web site was probably put together by someone who got it off the web, from another bookseller, like Barnes & Noble, who list the Australian books along with the two JFK books as if they are by the same author, but they too, I believe make the same mistake.

The Author House, self-publishing web site would promote, at least in the press release, that the author has also published the other historic works, by mainstream presses, that are much more academic than the JFK assassination books, according to Gary.

I would also think the book Gary has would also mention the other works by the same author.

It is odd that there isn't more on the Robin Haines of academia.

It's pretty arcane to write a book about the JFK assassination that few have ever heard of, and taking the position that we killed the bastard and he deserved it, but its really arcane to also write a book about the daily lives of 18th century ship surgeons.

I say they're different people with the same name.

And I'm so sure I'd bet a case of Fosters on it.

BK

Bill, what you say does make sense insofar as it explains the quality of writing issue. I just read some more of the JFK book through Amazon.

According to author:

JFK agreed to be killed and signed an Executive Order to that effect.

Oswald was a genuine Leftist.

Maurice Bishop was Howard Hunt.

Ruby was a Kennedy man thru and thru.

From my further reading, I conclude that not only are you correct, but I'll take it one step further -- this person is an All-American loop-de-loop - not Australian.

An apology is owed to Robin F Haines and to Flinders University. That apology should come from places like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Robin Haines and Authorhouse for allowing buyers to be deceived as to the credentials of the actual author (you were right about that, too - Amazon etc have linked Robin F Haines to this book...)

Bet against an Irishman where alcohol is concerned? To you think I'm totally crazy????

I agree that we must be dealing with two different people. Why would the author note that she/he graduated from high school and not mention any higher education?

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Guest Tom Scully

The Flinders Robin Haines has a Ph.D, is a female, no longer appears as a Flinders affiliate on any current Flinders.edu.au web page that I can find, and there is no mention of a JFK Assassination book:

It is as if the author of the two JFK Assassination themed books does not exist...

No photos, book tours, interviews or audio/video of any kind....

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Haines_Robin_630566095.aspx

http://www.flinders.edu.au/?news=100 - [Cached Version]

Published on: 3/6/2006 Last Visited: 3/11/2007

Dr Robin Haines, honorary Senior Research Fellow in History at Flinders University, has just published her fifth book, Doctors at Sea: emigrant voyages to colonial Australia.

The book tells the story of the voyage from the point of view of the surgeon superintendents who supervised assisted emigrants at sea via their journals, letters, and official reports.

Doctors at Sea will be launched as part of Adelaide Writers' Week in the East Tent on Wednesday March 8 at 11.30am, and Dr Haines will also be a panellist at two sessions on the writing of history.

Doctors at Sea is a companion volume to Dr Haines's Life and Death in the Age of Sail (2003), which presented the emigrants' view of the voyage, and which is now out in paperback in Australia and the UK.....

...Dr Haines is now shifting her focus away from migration: her new project is an investigation of the life of a young British soldier in India and Burma in the 1920s and 30s.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060823010225/.../history/staff/

Staff members...

...Non-university staff accorded academic status

* Dr Lance Brennan

* Dr Francis Brooks

* Dr David Close

* Associate Professor Brian Dickey

* Dr David Hilliard

* Associate Professor Peter Howell

* Mr John Mallon

* Emeritus Professor Robin Moore

* Dr Ching Fatt Yong

* Dr Robin Haines

http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?arch...lastName=Haines

Robin Haines

Robin Haines is an honorary Senior Research Fellow in the Department of History at Flinders University. Her books include Emigration and the Labouring Poor: Australian recruitment in Britain and Ireland 1831-60 (1997), Charles Trevelyan and the Great Irish Famine (2004); Bound for South Australia: Births and deaths on government-assisted immigrant ships 1848-1885 (2004); Life and Death in the Age of Sail (2003) was shortlisted for the NSW Premier's Community and Regional History Award in 2004. Her latest book Doctors at Sea: Emigrant voyages to colonial Australia in the Victorian era will be launched at Adelaide Writers' Week 2006.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060824200048/...taff/haines.php

Dr Robin Haines (PhD Flinders)

Postal address:

Department of History

Faculty of Social Sciences

Flinders University

GPO Box 2100

Adelaide SA 5001

Australia

Telephone: (+61) 08 8201 2225

Fax: (+61) 08 8201 3350

Email: Robin.Haines@flinders.edu.au

Dr Haines’s major research interests include British industrialisation, the Great Irish Famine, emigration from the UK to various destinations; voyage mortality and the health experience of convicts and emigrants on ships travelling to Australia; the mortality of slaves on the middle passage in the eighteenth century.

Recently, Dr Haines in partnership with Dr Ralph Shlomowitz (School of Business Economics, Flinders University) has explored ways in which the management of health and disease on board ships carrying slaves, convicts, and emigrants can inform the debate over the decline of mortality on land in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Major publications include:

Emigration and the Labouring Poor: Australian Recruitment in Britain and Ireland, 1831-1860 (Macmillan Press, London, 1997, 2nd ed. Gould Books, Adelaide, 2005, forthcoming).

Life and Death in the Age of Sail: The passage to Australia (UNSW Press, Sydney, 2003).(Shortlisted for the NSW Premier's History Awards, 2004).

Charles Trevelyan and the Great Irish Famine (Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2004).

Bound for South Australia: Births and deaths on government-assisted immigrant ships 1848-1885 (Gould Geneology, Adelaide, 2004) (with Judith Jeffery and Greg Slattery), CD-ROM ISBN 094728441

Doctors at Sea: Emigrant Voyages to Colonial Australia (Palgrave Macmillan, London, 2005). (The Australian edition to be released in February 2006).

Dr Haines has published several chapters in edited books, and a number of widely-circulated Working Papers. Articles can also be found in the following journals: Social History of Medicine (1998, 2003); Australian Economic History Review (2002); Explorations in Economic History (2001); Health and History (2001, 2004); William and Mary Quarterly (2001); Economic History Review (2000); Proceedings of the Nutrition Society of Australia (1998); Pabulum (1998); International Review of Social History (1998); Australian Historical Studies (1997); International Journal of Maritime History (1996); Itinerario (1996); Journal of the History Teachers’ Association of South Australia (1996); Population Studies (1994); Journal of Australian Studies (1992, 1992); Journal of the Historical Society of South Australia (1991); Tasmanian Historical Studies (2005).

Edited by Tom Scully
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  • 2 weeks later...

So who indeed is this self-published author? From Virginia (Langley)...? Interesting enough to get some attention, with a semi-plausible story-line that has aspects of truth... like a limited-hangout. Disinformation or tease?

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So who indeed is this self-published author? From Virginia (Langley)...? Interesting enough to get some attention, with a semi-plausible story-line that has aspects of truth... like a limited-hangout. Disinformation or tease?

Hey Gene,

Indeed. She also reminds me, not only of Gregory Douglas and his bogus Zipper docs, but the guy who wrote Were We Controlled?, the really bizarre book that entwines the assassination with the manipulation of the stock market and programed assassins.

I think Kenn Thomas republished it (Steamshovel Press - All Conspiracy, No Theory).

Whoever wrote that book (Lincoln Lawrence?), Oswald's mother said, really knew something.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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Guest Tom Scully
So who indeed is this self-published author? From Virginia (Langley)...? Interesting enough to get some attention, with a semi-plausible story-line that has aspects of truth... like a limited-hangout. Disinformation or tease?

"And me, I'm flying in my taxi, Taking tips, and getting..." = Lyrics by Harry Chapin

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemD...px?bookid=41872

Probable Cause: ReThinking of the JFK Plot

About the Author

Robin Haines

Robin Haines was born in Jersey City, New Jersey — in Christ Hospital on March 20th 1953. Her mother was a journalist for a newspaper called the Jersey Journal Dispatch, which was once known as The Hudson Dispatch. She was a Religion Editor who also covered theater, and entertainment and occasionally, covered stores about politics. Her father was a wine salesman who eventually became a Cab Driver. Both of her parents are now deceased.

She resided in Weehawken, New Jersey, until she was 29. Then she relocated to Winchester, Virginia, where she still lives today.

She has never been married.

Her many interests include politics, religion, military and American History. She also enjoys horseback riding, theater, and current events.

She was once a bank receptionist, a Music Monitor for ASCAP, and a Time Clock Sales Representative. After her move to Virginia she has worked on horse farms,

and Hunt Country Estates. She also did long-term industrial temp jobs, and was a Food Lion Cashier. She is presently employed by Polly Cab of Winchester as a cab driver.

Her personal goal is to have the cover removed from the JFK Operation so the whole truth can finally be established.

There is a quotation etched in stone on the wall of the National Archives in Washington, D.C. It reads: “Those who don’t remember the past have a tendency to repeat it”.

How can the United States government expect people to be able to remember their past when so much of the truth about their past has been kept from them?

The author deeply believes that the many controversies, which are still hanging over us from the 1960’s and ‘70’s need to be resolved.

Final closure should be brought to these things while there are still some people living who have first hand knowledge of them.

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So who indeed is this self-published author? From Virginia (Langley)...? Interesting enough to get some attention, with a semi-plausible story-line that has aspects of truth... like a limited-hangout. Disinformation or tease?

I would say this is not CIA disinformation, having read the book. It is practically illiterate and no one is going to read this book. The author is some nut who barely finished high school and has his or her own opinion on the assassination, and paid someone to publish it.

Hey Gene,

Indeed. She also reminds me, not only of Gregory Douglas and his bogus Zipper docs, but the guy who wrote Were We Controlled?, the really bizarre book that entwines the assassination with the manipulation of the stock market and programed assassins.

I think Kenn Thomas republished it (Steamshovel Press - All Conspiracy, No Theory).

Whoever wrote that book (Lincoln Lawrence?), Oswald's mother said, really knew something.

BK

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So who indeed is this self-published author? From Virginia (Langley)...? Interesting enough to get some attention, with a semi-plausible story-line that has aspects of truth... like a limited-hangout. Disinformation or tease?

I would say this is not CIA disinformation, having read the book. It is practically illiterate and no one is going to read this book. The author is some nut who barely finished high school and has his or her own opinion on the assassination, and paid someone to publish it.

Gary, I hear you, but consider that Oswald didn't gradute from high school either, and David Atlee Phillips never graduated from college and made it to the top of the CIA Western Hemisphere Division.

Being a cab driver she reminds me of Mel Gibson in the movie Conspiracy Theory, who was an MKULTRA subject. Maybe she is too?

BK

Hey Gene,

Indeed. She also reminds me, not only of Gregory Douglas and his bogus Zipper docs, but the guy who wrote Were We Controlled?, the really bizarre book that entwines the assassination with the manipulation of the stock market and programed assassins.

I think Kenn Thomas republished it (Steamshovel Press - All Conspiracy, No Theory).

Whoever wrote that book (Lincoln Lawrence?), Oswald's mother said, really knew something.

BK

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