The CIA attacks the Education Forum

[John Dolva]

.... 'Indoctrination University'....

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2008/06/simkin.html

wow, 'Indoctrination University'. That from a minion of the greatest indoctrination organisation the world has had the misfortune to deal with ever.

I find Bohnings attacks on John S. agenda driven. The way he uses language indicates he does not believe in freedom of speech and thought.

John S. has repeatedly stated his political position. So have I. Contrary to John S. I think Trotsky was a true revolutionary who worked tirelessly first to defend the fledgling Bolchevic Revolution and later to defend the ideals of Socialism against the Stalinist counterrrevolution for which he was assasinated. I was a member of a trotskyist left wing militant group (which I still support) and have also become a liberation theologian. John S. is an atheist.

He does not discriminate against persons with widely different political ideologies ( apart from a commendable principled stance against racism and fascism ). IOW the Education Forum follows the principles of true democracy and freedom of speech far more than Bohning and his propagandist Masters who are necessarily locked into a flawed analysis of the world by their nature as defenders of a failing economic system. John S. seeks to involve even persons like Bohning and others in a medium that allows for lively discussions and a minimum of censorship. I submit that Bohnings Masters would like John S. to toe the line a la Bohnings Masters, ie become just another mouth piece for the establishment so that his Masters will have an easier job in keeping people dumbed down and compliant in pereparation for future events, which most certainly will be anti democratic. They already are. Part of his attack is cherry picking flaws and generalises that to provide cover for a 'credible' attack on the Forum as a whole while the very system he so diligently defends is rotten to the core.

[Chuck Robbins]

As we have since found out, Barbara Bush herself put GHWB in Dallas on the 22nd of Nov. in her autobiography.

Thank you Barbara for your contribution to true history.

On of the most rediculous 'methodology' in Bohning's is to simply 'ask' CIA agents if they were in a place or participated in some operation and take their word as truth - more so when they were CIA agents not trying to correct the record, but hiding in the historical shadows. G.W.H. Bush said he wasn't in Dallas on the day of or day before JFK's assassination, so it HAS to be true. Those that think one can simply take the 'word' of people who's whole professional lives have been that of deception and misdirection are themselves misdirecting and disinforming. One can ask them, but one has to verify and look at those statements in the light of what others have said about it too. It was a 'hit' piece against John and the Forum. Another crazy notion is that what is on the Forum is somehow John's product. While some is, much has been posted by others and much of the information John has assembled has come with their help. Again, relying on the CIA or one of their media assets is like asking a wolf if he ate any of the farmer's sheep or chickens. The response will be self-serving - as this piece was to the CIA. This is 'history' as they want it known, and on many points may not [i.e. does not IMO] square with the real history and facts. There is real history and there is CIA/inteligence history and they rarely have much overlap.

[William Kelly]

I think that we should welcome Donald Dean Bohning and the CIA Crew from the AFIO

and their children and grandchildren, and ask their assistance in the quest for the truth regarding the assassination of President Kennedy. After all, it's a matter of national security that will not go away until it is resolved.

The CIA, like the Mafia, are just as much the Whipping Boys as the Cubans, while those really responsible, those suspects with real names and identities, go free.

Why not let Mr. Bohning, with his magic ability to call people like PG on the phone and ask him questions, obtain the answers to our questions?

Aren't we all suppose to be liberally educated gentlemen?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

bkjfk3@yahoo.com

[John Simkin]

Jim Hougan tells me that Elizabeth Bancroft, managing director of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, sent him a copy of the journal. He assumed that the AFIO would have sent me a copy. I have been told that Eugene Poteat, the president of the AFIO, is a reasonable man, who might publish your letters in the journal.

Here are their emails if you want to communicate with any of these people:

Don Bohning: Donbohning@aol.com

Elizabeth Bancroft/Eugene Poteat afio@afio.com

[William Kelly]

Jim Hougan tells me that Elizabeth Bancroft, managing director of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, sent him a copy of the journal. He assumed that the AFIO would have sent me a copy. I have been told that Eugene Poteat, the president of the AFIO, is a reasonable man, who might publish your letters in the journal.

Here are their emails if you want to communicate with any of these people:

Don Bohning: Donbohning@aol.com

Elizabeth Bancroft/Eugene Poteat afio@afio.com

Neocons Acquire Another Front Group

By Philip Giraldi

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=11724

....In separate correspondence, AFIO has indicated that it is not interested in dialogue with Muslims or in presenting any balanced view of the problems that beset the Middle East. An inquiry made to AFIO by a potential attendee to the symposium expressing concern that Daniel Pipes in particular is outspokenly anti-Muslim produced an interesting response from Elizabeth Bancroft, the organization's executive director. Bancroft denounced the inquiry as "politically correct rubbish" and went on to refer to it and similar letters as "hand-wringing weep-pieces for multiculturalism." One suspects that she may also be responsible for the Sept. 11 letter alerting AFIO members to the upcoming symposium in which she referred to the "often unattainable" experts who would be speaking. Hopefully they will have attained something by the time the conference starts. Elizabeth undeniably has a way with words.

They're having an auction of donated items to benefit the association, and Elizabeth Bancroft donated this:

Name Item Description Value Current Bid

Assassination of Heydrich Medal Rare Assassination of Heydrich "Operation Anthropoid" Medal Authenticity and source, unknown Operation Anthropoid was the code name for the assassination of top German leader Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Third Reich's Main Security Office (R...

Donated by

Elizabeth Bancroft

Elizabeth Bancroft and AFIO CIA Impersonator:

http://74.125.47.132/search?

q=cache:zDKLLRYYJ6oJ:www.newsfollowup.com/docs/palfrey/chron_carnaby.doc+elizabeth+bancroft+afio&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

There are two Surveillants. This is not the correct one:

Surveillant: http://www.vigilex.nl/newsletter/

This is the correct one:

the National Intelligence Book Center in Washington, D.C. which publishes Surveillant. The Managing Editor is Elizabeth Bancroft, and her telephone is (202) 785-4334.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/06/us/washi...se-sources.html

Edited April 23, 2009 by William Kelly

[Joan Mellen]

In my 2005 book "A Farewell to Justice" I outlined that Donald Bohning was CIA's media asset "AMCARBON-3. I had many more documents than you cited. I had also at least a half dozen interviews with a CIA contract pilot named E. Carl McNabb, who visited Bohning in Miami, and who described to me his interviews with Bohning, interviews described in the CIA documents about AMCARBON-3. When I interviewed Bohning in Miami at the cafeteria of the Miami Herald, he denied knowing what AMCARBON-3 meant. He did remark that he lunched once a week with CIA's Jake Esterline.

Bohning had the same publisher I did, Potomac Books Inc. He contacted them, outraged at the AMCARBON-3 material, and so I sent a huge file to Potomac with the documents. I also sent my notes of my interview with him. I have a huge file drawer on McNabb, who came to my attention because as "Jim Rose" he did some investigations for the Garrison office.

That was the end of that until he attacked me on the Internet.

We are in the "who knows who is working for whom" department, to say the least.

This is a time waster for you, in replying to all those charges. If you have the time, I'm sure you will be able to do so. Please bear in mind that Fabian Escalante is not a reliable source. I discovered this when I interviewed this past December one of the Cubans who would know. All that will be in my new book, called, for now, "The Texas Robber Barons And The CIA."

[Evan Burton]

He does not discriminate against persons with widely different political ideologies ( apart from a commendable principled stance against racism and fascism ).

Very very true. John S and I are probably politically opposite, but he insists that I have the right to state my views, the same as anyone else.

I don't know diddly about JFK, but I do know John S is a genuine champion of free speech.

[Len Colby]

In my 2005 book "A Farewell to Justice" I outlined that Donald Bohning was CIA's media asset "AMCARBON-3.

Hmmmh, I wonder if it is more than a coincidence that simultaneous with his attack from one direction the forum has been attacked from another by a disaffected member who is a government employed propagandist?

[John Simkin]

In Don Bohning's article in The Intelligencer: Journal of U.S. Intelligence Studies (Volume 16 – Number 2 – Fall 2008) he attempts to argue that Quintero was not involved in CIA sponsored attempts to kill Castro.

As an intelligence gathering unit, Operation 40 became, and remains, a controversial topic within the South Florida Cuban exile community, many of whom it spied upon. The late Rafael Quintero - who Simkin erroneously identifies as a member of his non-existent Operation 40 - is among those who expressed concern because of the vast files of information the group collected on the Cuban community and the potential for blackmail with that information.

"When the Bay of Pigs went kaput, they stayed as a group and Sanjenis became a very, very dangerous and powerful guy in Miami because he had a file on everybody… whose wife was whose lover, how much money etc... Some people tried to use that for blackmail," Quintero said in a April 2003 interview with me. "Actually, nobody knows where those files are. It's a big question mark." Operation 40 was shutdown in the early 1970s as part of the phase-out of active CIA sponsored anti-Castro activity. Quintero, who died in 2006, also asked that he not be identified by name in my book because of Operation 40's controversial nature in South Florida's Cuban community.

Tim Weiner wrote in the New York Times (19th October, 2006) that Quintero told him that he signed up with the CIA in 1960 and that he "worked against Cuba side by side with Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy in the days when the United States tried to kill Mr. Castro. Years later, Mr. Quintero conspired with Lt. Col. Oliver L. North against the Sandinista government of Nicaragua."

In his book Manhunt: The Incredible Pursuit of a CIA Agent Turned Terrorist, Peter Maas mentions Carl Jenkins as Quintero's case officer prior to the Bay of Pigs. Quintero was part of an advance team sent in before the invasion by Jenkins. Afterwards Tom Clines would assume a case officer role for Quintero, who would go on make to a number of sabotage and assassination missions into Cuba.

Larry Hancock has done considerable research into Quintero's relationship with Carl Jenkins, a senior figure in the CIA. He writes about this in "Someone Would Have Talked".

Research confirms that beyond a doubt, Carl Jenkins was indeed a senior CIA officer who worked on paramilitary activities in support of the Bay of Pigs project and that by 1963-64 he was indeed directly involved with the AM/WORLD project, with Artime (AM/BIDDY) and Quintero (AM/JAVA-4).

In September, 1963 Jenkins wrote a general memo describing Artime's operational philosophy and concepts. This summarized his views about commando teams, infiltration teams, and guerrilla actions. The memo addresses military operations as Artime conceives them to be organized and conducted under a single organization (AM/WORLD) in which the Cubans can have faith. In a section on Commandos, there is discussion of the use of abductions and assassinations targeted against Cuban G-2 intelligence informants, agents, officers, and foreign Communists to raise the morale of people inside Cuba.'

In December, 1964, Jenkins prepared a summary report of Quintero's visit to Europe for a dialogue with Rolando Cubela in preparation for further meetings with Artime. The goal of this meeting was to develop contacts with a group inside Cuba which was capable of "eliminating Fidel Castro and of seizing and holding Havana, at least for an appreciable time that would be sufficient to justify recognition."'

[Guest Tom Scully]

In my 2005 book "A Farewell to Justice" I outlined that Donald Bohning was CIA's media asset "AMCARBON-3.

Hmmmh, I wonder if it is more than a coincidence that simultaneous with his attack from one direction the forum has been attacked from another by a disaffected member who is a government employed propagandist?

Len,

IYO, does the information the author of "A Farewell to Justice" posted, amount to "an attack", or is the act of this person posting on the forum, "an attack"?

I ask because, before she posted, I posted the same information, quoting from her book:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=166136

I made my decision to post the information because I could accompany what I posted from her book with links to two supporting, declassified CIA documents

available at maryferrell.org.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=807257

Details:

.....Bohning is the Latin American Editor of the Miami Herald. He was granted a PCSA on 21 August 1967

and a CSA on 14 November 1967. He is AMCARBON-3.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=414916

"Requested approval to use Bohning, DDP approved..."

Bohning's resume follows, and then a "17 Feb 67", 15 day travel to Cuba is described, "from the Czech Embassy".

Unless you are challenging the authenticity of the documents displayed at the links above, or you suspect "DDP" refers to

something other than "Deputy Director of Plans", I don't understand your point, Len....how is information so well documented,

an "attack", no matter what your opinion of the messenger is?

Edited April 23, 2009 by Tom Scully

[Len Colby]

Uuuuh Tom (and Peter)

The topic of this thread is the attack on this forum by (former?) CIA asset Donald Bohning , a man. I quoted a snippet of a post by Joan Mellen, a woman, in which she elaborates on the evidence she uncovered showing that he worked for the agency. So why did you interpret “HIS attack” as referring to Mellen and not to Bohning? The “disaffected member” I was referring to was obviously Drago who says Bohnings’ attack was to increase this forum’s credibility. Perhaps you should have spent a couple more seconds thinking about it before posting.

That was sarcastic satire, I don’t really suspect that Drago is a CIA asset but using the same patented rampant speculation that some try to pass of as logical analysis here there is reason to suspect so - I mean do they really expect us to believe it’s a COINCIDECE that a CIA asset attacks the forum for being ‘too conspiratorial’ and shortly there after a (supposed) conspiracist insinuates it is a CIA asset?

[William Kelly]

In Don Bohning's article in The Intelligencer: Journal of U.S. Intelligence Studies (Volume 16 – Number 2 – Fall 2008) he attempts to argue that Quintero was not involved in CIA sponsored attempts to kill Castro.

As an intelligence gathering unit, Operation 40 became, and remains, a controversial topic within the South Florida Cuban exile community, many of whom it spied upon. The late Rafael Quintero - who Simkin erroneously identifies as a member of his non-existent Operation 40 - is among those who expressed concern because of the vast files of information the group collected on the Cuban community and the potential for blackmail with that information.

"When the Bay of Pigs went kaput, they stayed as a group and Sanjenis became a very, very dangerous and powerful guy in Miami because he had a file on everybody… whose wife was whose lover, how much money etc... Some people tried to use that for blackmail," Quintero said in a April 2003 interview with me. "Actually, nobody knows where those files are. It's a big question mark." Operation 40 was shutdown in the early 1970s as part of the phase-out of active CIA sponsored anti-Castro activity. Quintero, who died in 2006, also asked that he not be identified by name in my book because of Operation 40's controversial nature in South Florida's Cuban community.

Tim Weiner wrote in the New York Times (19th October, 2006) that Quintero told him that he signed up with the CIA in 1960 and that he "worked against Cuba side by side with Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy in the days when the United States tried to kill Mr. Castro. Years later, Mr. Quintero conspired with Lt. Col. Oliver L. North against the Sandinista government of Nicaragua."

In his book Manhunt: The Incredible Pursuit of a CIA Agent Turned Terrorist, Peter Maas mentions Carl Jenkins as Quintero's case officer prior to the Bay of Pigs. Quintero was part of an advance team sent in before the invasion by Jenkins. Afterwards Tom Clines would assume a case officer role for Quintero, who would go on make to a number of sabotage and assassination missions into Cuba.

Larry Hancock has done considerable research into Quintero's relationship with Carl Jenkins, a senior figure in the CIA. He writes about this in "Someone Would Have Talked".

Research confirms that beyond a doubt, Carl Jenkins was indeed a senior CIA officer who worked on paramilitary activities in support of the Bay of Pigs project and that by 1963-64 he was indeed directly involved with the AM/WORLD project, with Artime (AM/BIDDY) and Quintero (AM/JAVA-4).

In September, 1963 Jenkins wrote a general memo describing Artime's operational philosophy and concepts. This summarized his views about commando teams, infiltration teams, and guerrilla actions. The memo addresses military operations as Artime conceives them to be organized and conducted under a single organization (AM/WORLD) in which the Cubans can have faith. In a section on Commandos, there is discussion of the use of abductions and assassinations targeted against Cuban G-2 intelligence informants, agents, officers, and foreign Communists to raise the morale of people inside Cuba.'

In December, 1964, Jenkins prepared a summary report of Quintero's visit to Europe for a dialogue with Rolando Cubela in preparation for further meetings with Artime. The goal of this meeting was to develop contacts with a group inside Cuba which was capable of "eliminating Fidel Castro and of seizing and holding Havana, at least for an appreciable time that would be sufficient to justify recognition."'

[Pamela Brown]

If we start with the premise that the WCR is a myth that has to be bolstered by what amounts to an ongoing cover-up, then we have to start looking at the CT community from the standpoint of the WCR apologist camp, including, unfortunately it seems, NARA, and/or the rules that govern it relating to the JFK Records. The slant has always been this -- to blindly follow the WCR is to be 'patriotic'; to dissent and think for oneself is to be unpatriotic. Vast groups of mini-WCRs have sprouted up over the years, spearheaded by the latest WCR messiah. Very expensive tv shows are tossed into the mix at significant points, each claiming to have 're-proven' the myth of the WCR.

The objective of the ongoing cover-up is to destroy the CT community. How? To infiltrate, to divide and conquer, to stir the pot, etc. The timeline is probably to destroy it ASAP. In the long range, it may be to destroy it before whatever paltry gutted documents left are released by the Archives at some time in the future.

Given that perspective, we might be wise to assess this forum and its threat level to those aims. And, considering the fact that whatever ongoing cover-up exists, those at the center have probably has thought way ahead of the rest of us, we need to evaluate not only what may be planned for the future, but what may already be in place.

[Len Colby]

If we start with the premise that the WCR is a myth that has to be bolstered by what amounts to an ongoing cover-up, then we have to start looking at the CT community from the standpoint of the WCR apologist camp, including, unfortunately it seems, NARA, and/or the rules that govern it relating to the JFK Records. The slant has always been this -- to blindly follow the WCR is to be 'patriotic'; to dissent and think for oneself is to be unpatriotic. Vast groups of mini-WCRs have sprouted up over the years, spearheaded by the latest WCR messiah. Very expensive tv shows are tossed into the mix at significant points, each claiming to have 're-proven' the myth of the WCR.

The objective of the ongoing cover-up is to destroy the CT community. How? To infiltrate, to divide and conquer, to stir the pot, etc. The timeline is probably to destroy it ASAP. In the long range, it may be to destroy it before whatever paltry gutted documents left are released by the Archives at some time in the future.

Given that perspective, we might be wise to assess this forum and its threat level to those aims. And, considering the fact that whatever ongoing cover-up exists, those at the center have probably has thought way ahead of the rest of us, we need to evaluate not only what may be planned for the future, but what may already be in place.

Targeting this Forum is not new IMO.

So can we assume your buddy Drago who helped divide, keeps attacking and makes claims (he refuses to produce evidence for) against the forum is in Stalin's parlance "a useful idiot"?

[Peter McGuire]

If we start with the premise that the WCR is a myth that has to be bolstered by what amounts to an ongoing cover-up, then we have to start looking at the CT community from the standpoint of the WCR apologist camp, including, unfortunately it seems, NARA, and/or the rules that govern it relating to the JFK Records. The slant has always been this -- to blindly follow the WCR is to be 'patriotic'; to dissent and think for oneself is to be unpatriotic. Vast groups of mini-WCRs have sprouted up over the years, spearheaded by the latest WCR messiah. Very expensive tv shows are tossed into the mix at significant points, each claiming to have 're-proven' the myth of the WCR.

The objective of the ongoing cover-up is to destroy the CT community. How? To infiltrate, to divide and conquer, to stir the pot, etc. The timeline is probably to destroy it ASAP. In the long range, it may be to destroy it before whatever paltry gutted documents left are released by the Archives at some time in the future.

Given that perspective, we might be wise to assess this forum and its threat level to those aims. And, considering the fact that whatever ongoing cover-up exists, those at the center have probably has thought way ahead of the rest of us, we need to evaluate not only what may be planned for the future, but what may already be in place.

Official documents may be destroyed, but the fine work of countless researchers will forever remain. Jim Marrs writes on page 201 of Crossfire,Demohrenschildt and the Agency; ( Demohrenschildt supposedly figured a shotgun blast to the head was preferable to testifying at the HSCA)

"Another possible connection between the CIA and the JFK assassination concerns a former CIA operative named Robert D Morrow. In his book, Betrayal, Morrow tells how he purchased four 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcono rifles on orders from a CIA superior. Morrow remains convinced that at least one of these rifles ended up in the hands of Dallas police on November 22, 1963."

Edited April 26, 2009 by Peter McGuire