What? No Obama birth certificate threads?

[Terry Mauro]

The LaRouche PAC big intervention and literature saturation

of Rep. Rick Larson's (D-Wash.) huge (unplanned) town meeting

with many hundreds standing outside, is now out on the Internet

in a two-minute video, including on larouchenet. A supporter who

was there has sent a report of LPAC organizers "supporting the

Truth" about Obama, one or two threatening to attack them, and

others in the crowd immediately coming to their defense. The

Romulus, Michigan, intervention is everywhere on the Internet,

and the Vicki Tsongas meeting near Boston is now fully visible on

larouchenet and being picked up elsewhere. We have print coverage

of our Obama/Hitler organizing reported in Long Island and New

Jersey. And in many locals our field squads are "exploding" their

impact and income, as Harley reported of Texas over the weekend.

A town meeting held by Rep. Mike Burgess (R-Tx) near Dallas,

showed again that GOP Congressmen are also getting blasted by the

revolutionary heat.

Meanwhile, a growing number of "leading" Congressional

cowards has decided to have "no direct contact with [his or her]

constituents during this recess" (Diane DeGette of Colorado, in

that case).

Lyndon LaRouche said Sunday, "I repeat what I said on

Saturday about this; and I'll add now: The President, like the

King of France, and the legislative branch of the government,

have gone into hiding, and we're waiting for the rioters to reach

the Bastille.

"This is a breakdown of government. The government has fled

from the people. It is not fleeing from `mobs.' This is not

caused by the `mobs.' It's caused by the government's refusal to

deal with the problems of the American people.

"And the American people are not going to let Obama do it.

He has misjudged. Hitler was actually smarter--he knew that he

couldn't run through a euthanasia thing like this except in a

war. He said he knew it would require war. He waited until war

started, and he put it through. Obama is more stupid. He thought

he would do it without waiting to be at war. He was stupid, and

he's getting the heat for it.

"This is what we should say, although some of us will be

afraid to say it," Lyn concluded.

[William Kelly]

The LaRouche PAC big intervention and literature saturation

of Rep. Rick Larson's (D-Wash.) huge (unplanned) town meeting

with many hundreds standing outside, is now out on the Internet

in a two-minute video, including on larouchenet. A supporter who

was there has sent a report of LPAC organizers "supporting the

Truth" about Obama, one or two threatening to attack them, and

others in the crowd immediately coming to their defense. The

Romulus, Michigan, intervention is everywhere on the Internet,

and the Vicki Tsongas meeting near Boston is now fully visible on

larouchenet and being picked up elsewhere. We have print coverage

of our Obama/Hitler organizing reported in Long Island and New

Jersey. And in many locals our field squads are "exploding" their

impact and income, as Harley reported of Texas over the weekend.

A town meeting held by Rep. Mike Burgess (R-Tx) near Dallas,

showed again that GOP Congressmen are also getting blasted by the

revolutionary heat.

Meanwhile, a growing number of "leading" Congressional

cowards has decided to have "no direct contact with [his or her]

constituents during this recess" (Diane DeGette of Colorado, in

that case).

Lyndon LaRouche said Sunday, "I repeat what I said on

Saturday about this; and I'll add now: The President, like the

King of France, and the legislative branch of the government,

have gone into hiding, and we're waiting for the rioters to reach

the Bastille.

"This is a breakdown of government. The government has fled

from the people. It is not fleeing from `mobs.' This is not

caused by the `mobs.' It's caused by the government's refusal to

deal with the problems of the American people.

"And the American people are not going to let Obama do it.

He has misjudged. Hitler was actually smarter--he knew that he

couldn't run through a euthanasia thing like this except in a

war. He said he knew it would require war. He waited until war

started, and he put it through. Obama is more stupid. He thought

he would do it without waiting to be at war. He was stupid, and

he's getting the heat for it.

"This is what we should say, although some of us will be

afraid to say it," Lyn concluded.

Larouche compares Obama to Hitler.

This is not about reforming health care. It's about tactics being used by those with vested interest in reforming the system.

Are the "Birthers" and those attacking Obama and anti-health care reformist connected?

It appears that they are easily manipulated, promote unbelievable rumors that aren't true (euthanisa) and one even said he thinks the government should stay out of Medicare.

What?

As this article notes: "The town hall protests are becoming widespread around the country as local activists, sometimes helped by national conservative groups, spread the word and encourage people to attend to challenge Democrats on President Barack Obama's plans. The activists make accusations including that Democrats are trying to socialize health care, ration care or even euthanize the elderly."

These people are really being whipped up, incited to riot.

One Congressman received a death threat.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/A...ry/1178311.html

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...ZHW-ywD99UCUHO1

Defiant response to health protests from Dingle

WASHINGTON — Congress' longest-serving member and a fierce health care advocate vowed Friday to push ahead with Democratic-led efforts to extend coverage to all, saying he won't be intimidated by protesters who disrupted his town-hall meetings.

"I am eager to talk about the bill with anyone who wants to discuss it. That doesn't open the door to everyone who wants to demagogue the discussion," Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., said in a statement the day after holding back-to-back sessions that got so raucous police had to escort people out.

Dingell's response to the furious crowd came as the Obama administration stepped up its efforts to dispel what it called myths surrounding the president's campaign to overhaul the system. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius held a Webcast in which she dismissed suggestions that the government will ration care or cut Medicare benefits.

The boos, jeers and shouts of "Shame on you!" at the events in a gym in Romulus, Mich., mirror what other Democrats are encountering around the country but are particularly striking because of Dingell's stature.

A North Carolina Democratic congressman, Rep. Brad Miller, has said his Washington office received a death threat from someone upset with his support for health care reform legislation. The U.S. Capitol Police confirmed Friday they were looking into a threat against a congressman, but wouldn't provide details.

Dingell, 83, has introduced universal health care bills every term since 1957, and is the lead sponsor on the health care bill currently before the House. Dingell's father, whom he replaced in the House, first co-sponsored legislation in 1943 to add health insurance to Social Security.

Footage of Dingell's events Thursday shows him interrupted by loud boos and catcalls as he tries to answer questions from the large, unruly crowd. So many people showed up at the first town hall that he convened a second one immediately after it.

In his statement, Dingell described being confronted by a father who feared legislation would prevent his son who is has cerebral palsy from getting care.

"Unfortunately, he would not allow me an opportunity to respond to his concern," Dingell said. "I'm sorry that Romulus Police had to escort them out, but he left officers no choice. We had 200 people in the hall, more than 200 people outside, and we could not let one person take over that meeting."

The town hall protests are becoming widespread around the country as local activists, sometimes helped by national conservative groups, spread the word and encourage people to attend to challenge Democrats on President Barack Obama's plans. The activists make accusations including that Democrats are trying to socialize health care, ration care or even euthanize the elderly.

"As long as I have a vote, I will not let shouting, intimidation or misinformation deter me from fighting for this cause," Dingell said.

The protesters' actions undermine the public discussion needed to make democracy work, Dingell told The Associated Press after a Friday appearance at the University of Michigan.

"The people who came to learn something about health care were the victims," Dingell said in Ann Arbor, Mich. "I wasn't the victim."

Support for Obama's approach to health care has dropped in the polls, and the White House sought to address some oft-repeated claims.

Among them: Will Medicare benefits be cut? Will government bureaucrats ration care? Will the elderly get progressively less care and then have euthanasia presented as an option?

Sebelius answered: No, no and no.

She said the administration wants to save money in Medicare by eliminating unnecessary procedures and hospital readmissions, among other things, but that there was no desire to eliminate needed benefits. She contended that insurance companies already ration care and that Obama wants to give doctors more control, not less.

As for the euthanasia claim: "Nothing could be less true ... that is just not part of the conversation," Sebelius said.

The rumor has become widespread and seems to stem from a provision in the House bill that would require Medicare to pay for direct consultations with health care professionals. Sebelius noted that no one would be required to use the benefit and said it would help many families.

Edited August 10, 2009 by William Kelly

[John Simkin]

I am also getting emails about Obama's health-care plan. Here is the latest one. The person who sent it is clearly mentally deranged. The idea that Obama is leading a socialist government is so ridiculous that it is actually funny.

Grandmas and Unborn Babies Face Extermination by Obama's "Health" Care Plan

Investors Business Daily has just exposed the Achilles' heel of Obamacare, that hostile, socialist government takeover of your hospital, doctors, children, and grandparents. In an editorial entitled, "How House Bill Runs Over Grandma," the editors report how President Obama was personally confronted by a North Carolina woman asking if "everyone that's Medicare age will be visited and told they have to decide how they wish to die."

In response Obama joked that he hadn't yet hired enough bureaucrats to conduct such an operation, yet he could not deny the New York Post's discovery the House bill "compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care" (pages 425-430). In other words, your grandmother will be told, when insufficient resources are rationed to young people, that her duty to die begins with mandatory "end-of-life counseling," or as Obama explained, "encourage the use of living wills" that terminate otherwise salvageable lives prematurely through signed "do not resuscitate" (DNR) legal releases.

1) EUTHANASIA is the first result of Obama's socialist government "health" care plan.

Bankrupt state can't afford to pay for grandma's hip replacement? Obama's plan sends her a lawyer to make her sign a DNR, explaining her hastened duty to die, and obtaining her signature legally absolving him of all guilt. Euthanasia begins where capitalism ends.

CLICK HERE TO SIGN PETITION, AND WE WILL FAX ALL 52 "BLUE-DOG" DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE, AND ALL 100 SENATORS, TO OPPOSE OBAMACARE.

Widely respected Minister Rick Joyner wrote this week, after reviewing Mat Staver's analysis of H.R. 3200 "Health" care bill, voicing his strong opinion that this bill "is about euthanasia, the power to determine who lives or dies in America. Hitler and Stalin would have loved to have had a means such as this for dispatching the millions they killed-it would have made their job much easier, and probably given them the ability to kill many more than they did. THIS BILL IS THAT SINISTER. This is not a joke." You can read Mat Staver's line-by-line analysis of the 1000 page health care bill at the bottom of this email.

2) Tax-payer funded ABORTION on demand is another guaranteed result.

Last week several so-called "pro-life Democrats" executed a bait and switch that will fully fund abortion on demand in the new Obamacare "health" bill. Led by compromiser and ex-pro-life Congressman Tim Ryan (D-OH), who was recently booted as an advisor to Democrats for Life of America for his lack of principle, the liberal House Democrats overruled conservative Republicans 30-28 to pass the hideous "Capps Amendment" to H.R.3200 in the Energy and Commerce Committee. This amendment now deceptively creates a phony accounting scheme that gives the false impression your tax-payer dollars will not subsidize abortion, while it simultaneously nationalizes free abortions for low-income urban neighborhoods, fulfilling the dream of Margaret Sanger (and her protege Ruth Bader Ginsburg) that African American babies will be the first exterminated in the government funded ovens that weed out "Populations that we don't want to have too many of."

Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) explained the Capps Amendment: "It's one of the most deceptive amendments I have ever seen. The bottom line is that money is fungible, and the plan itself will be subsidizing abortion-on-demand, with taxpayer funding commingled, and the numbers of abortions will go up significantly."

CLICK HERE TO SIGN PETITION, AND WE WILL FAX ALL 52 "BLUE-DOG" DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE, AND ALL 100 SENATORS, TO OPPOSE OBAMACARE.

3) Obama will REMOVE Christian prayers and symbols from Government-run hospitals

The hostile socialist government takeover of Catholic or Christian hospitals will eventually result in atheistic silencing of religious expression (and removing all Christian symbols) from the very place where faith in God is critical to sick and dying patients. For example, look at the Veterans Hospitals, already government-run, who are busy removing crosses and Christian symbols from their chapels (like in Iowa), because easily-offended atheist complainers have successfully intimidated hospital administrators with threats of lawsuit, by demanding separation of church and state. Just imagine more atheist lawsuits, when all Catholic and Christian hospitals are seized in the same way Obama took control of General Motors, inviting easily-offended atheist complainers to demand we change the name of the hospital from "St. Luke's Memorial" to the "Obama Government" hospital, falsely claiming tax-dollars cannot subsidize religion. But if St. Luke's refuses government subsidies, they will be drummed out of business, and Christian doctors' licenses revoked.

Can a government-run hospital still allow Christian chapels, or pay Christian chaplains, or permit Christian doctors to pray Christian prayers with their willing patients, or even allow Christian parents to control the health care options forced upon their dying children? Just ask Florida Hospital Chaplain Danny Harvey, fired last year from Leesburg Regional Medical Center because he prayed "in Jesus name" at a public memorial service. Ask Christian Pharmacists who Washington has already forced to dispense "Plan-B" abortion pills against their conscience, or doctors denied a "conscience clause" to opt out of abortions when Obama refused to renew Bush's pro-life executive orders. Ask Nurse Catherina Lorena Cenzon-DeCarlo, who recently was forced to participate in a second-trimester abortion against her will, and is now suing Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan for "blatantly" violating her rights under a 35 year old federal law that protects health care workers with religious objections from being forced to assist in murderous abortions. Ask Pentecostal Ministers Dale and Leilani Neumann, who were charged with second-degree murder of their 11-year-old daughter, because they refused to trust the power of a government hospital to heal their little girl who tragically died with diabetes. Can you say mandatory godlessness in "health" care? If government has power to dictate your health care options, they also have power to seize your children when you refuse. Think about it. Will you dare refuse the H1N1 vaccine when ordered to poison your children? No religious exemptions for doctors, patients, or parents are readily apparent in the current Obamacare bill. So take action with me...

CLICK HERE TO SIGN PETITION, AND WE WILL FAX ALL 52 "BLUE-DOG" DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE, AND ALL 100 SENATORS, TO OPPOSE OBAMACARE.

4) Homosexuals free $50,000 tax-funded sex-change surgery not excluded by Democrats.

My friend Matt Barber with Liberty Counsel made phone calls to several Congressional staffers, and Democrats from the offices of Sen. Harry Reid, Rep. Charlie Rangel, Rep. Barney Frank and the House Subcommittee on Health all refused to give, very simply, 'an assurance that the proposed health care plan will not allow taxpayer funded gender reassignment surgeries or hormone therapies.' Instead, they affirmed page 972 of the House version of the bill (H.R. 3200) which provides for "standards, as appropriate, for the collection of accurate data on health and health care" based on "sex, sexual orientation [and] gender identity." The Senate draft likewise requires the Department of Health and Human Services to "develop standards for the measurement of gender." (i.e., officially recognize subjectively self-determined "transgender" or "transsexual" gender identities). It further mandates "participation in the institutions' programs of individuals and groups from...different genders and sexual orientations." Democrats want more than 2 genders included the bill. In your townhall meetings, ask them how many? Forgive me, but I was raised on a farm, and there was one simple test for "measuring the gender" of mammals. They're either male or female. Just look.

The bottom line? Your tax-dollars will pay for preferential hiring of homosexual hospital administrators, who distribute $50,000 grants to gender-confused activists for unneeded elective surgery to mutilate their own genitals, (and force Christian doctors to perform it.) And nobody has yet offered an amendment that excludes this. Let's get started, by asking your Congressman in your town hall meetings this week, "Will you sponsor an amendment that excludes elective sex-change operations from tax-payer funding?" Some media complain conservatives hire thugs to challenge Congress with tough questions, but we don't. So please just read the bill summary far below, get informed, and show up to speak Truth at town hall. Meanwhile I will do more research for you myself.

So let me summarize Obama's health care plan: 1) Euthenizes grandma, 2) Mandates funding murder of innocent children, 3) Empowers atheist litigants to outlaw the healing power of the Christian faith, 4) Refuses to exclude funding sex-change operations.

CLICK HERE TO SIGN PETITION, AND WE WILL FAX ALL 52 "BLUE-DOG" DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE, AND ALL 100 SENATORS, TO OPPOSE OBAMACARE.

We all gasped when the federal government seized control of General Motors, and Obama effectively fired the Chairman and replaced the board with government bureaucrats selected by Treasury Secretary Geithner. Now Obama and his liberal Democratic House allies want to replace your doctors with bureaucrats, hasten grandma's demise, abort and kill children in urban neighborhoods, cut doctors' pay and control their religion, and transform Christian hospitals into government-controlled atheist bureaucracies. Does any of this remind you of Communism? I won't stand idly by to allow this. I will fax Congress to say, "no to Obamacare." Will you? Please sign our petition and I'll send your faxes now. Then please forward this email to all your friends who care about our beloved country, especially those senior citizens who may be at greatest risk.

God Bless you, in Jesus' name,

Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt

[Ron Ecker]

Health care reform would be nice. But we can't afford it right now. I guess this will come as a revelation to some people. America is hopelessly in debt. Obama and the Democrats have spent trillions in a few months. And no one to this point has a clue as to how this reform is going to be paid for. There are even rumblings that Obama is going to break his "read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class" pledge. Maybe that's why some people are mad.

When you can't afford something, you should abstain for now. This is basic living.

Someone should tell Obama the old joke about the Eisenhower doll: You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years. Obama should just try doing nothing for a while. I know it's hard, but let some common sense come into play. This would even shut up Republicans.

[John Simkin]

Health care reform would be nice. But we can't afford it right now. I guess this will come as a revelation to some people. America is hopelessly in debt. Obama and the Democrats have spent trillions in a few months. And no one to this point has a clue as to how this reform is going to be paid for. There are even rumblings that Obama is going to break his "read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class" pledge. Maybe that's why some people are mad.

When you can't afford something, you should abstain for now. This is basic living.

Someone should tell Obama the old joke about the Eisenhower doll: You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years. Obama should just try doing nothing for a while. I know it's hard, but let some common sense come into play. This would even shut up Republicans.

When the Labour Government introduced the National Health System in 1947 they were heavily in debt (the cost of the Second World War). When they promised to do this in the 1945 general election they were described as Nazis (Churchill) and communists (they admitted to being socialists). However, the Conservative governments that followed, did not dare remove it because it was the most popular thing ever done by a British government. A recent survey showed that the NHS is the most popular aspect of British society. If Obama does bring in "socialised medicine", it will never be removed. That is why the far-right in America is spending so much money and energy on attacking the idea.

[William Kelly]

Health care reform would be nice. But we can't afford it right now. I guess this will come as a revelation to some people. America is hopelessly in debt. Obama and the Democrats have spent trillions in a few months. And no one to this point has a clue as to how this reform is going to be paid for. There are even rumblings that Obama is going to break his "read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class" pledge. Maybe that's why some people are mad.

When you can't afford something, you should abstain for now. This is basic living.

Someone should tell Obama the old joke about the Eisenhower doll: You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years. Obama should just try doing nothing for a while. I know it's hard, but let some common sense come into play. This would even shut up Republicans.

When the Labour Government introduced the National Health System in 1947 they were heavily in debt (the cost of the Second World War). When they promised to do this in the 1945 general election they were described as Nazis (Churchill) and communists (they admitted to being socialists). However, the Conservative governments that followed, did not dare remove it because it was the most popular thing ever done by a British government. A recent survey showed that the NHS is the most popular aspect of British society. If Obama does bring in "socialised medicine", it will never be removed. That is why the far-right in America is spending so much money and energy on attacking the idea.

The HMO - Heatlth Managments Orgs, are not non-profits, but are profit making corps THAT WERE STARTED BY FEDERAL MILLIONS IN START UP FUNDS - which is a nice model that should be used to fund start ups of some real NOT FOR PROFIT HMOS - or a non-profit public insurance option that the health insurance industry (400% profits up in last six years, second only to oil industry). They are fighting it with the rumor that if the government starts such non-profit competition, they will put the private HMOs out of business.

So its no competition or no competition, the new free market capitalism.

Of course if Ron's attitude is adopted and nothing is done, the profits will continue to roll in the Health insurance companies and most of the people of the usa will remain uninsured.

BK

[Christopher Hall]

Health care reform would be nice. But we can't afford it right now. I guess this will come as a revelation to some people. America is hopelessly in debt. Obama and the Democrats have spent trillions in a few months. And no one to this point has a clue as to how this reform is going to be paid for. There are even rumblings that Obama is going to break his "read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class" pledge. Maybe that's why some people are mad.

When you can't afford something, you should abstain for now. This is basic living.

Someone should tell Obama the old joke about the Eisenhower doll: You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years. Obama should just try doing nothing for a while. I know it's hard, but let some common sense come into play. This would even shut up Republicans.

When the Labour Government introduced the National Health System in 1947 they were heavily in debt (the cost of the Second World War). When they promised to do this in the 1945 general election they were described as Nazis (Churchill) and communists (they admitted to being socialists). However, the Conservative governments that followed, did not dare remove it because it was the most popular thing ever done by a British government. A recent survey showed that the NHS is the most popular aspect of British society. If Obama does bring in "socialised medicine", it will never be removed. That is why the far-right in America is spending so much money and energy on attacking the idea.

John-

How many people work for GB's national health care program?

I read that it was 1,400,000.

Is that true?

Also, does it ration care based on age, health, etc.?

Thanks.

Chris

[David G. Healy]

The LaRouche PAC big intervention and literature saturation

of Rep. Rick Larson's (D-Wash.) huge (unplanned) town meeting

with many hundreds standing outside, is now out on the Internet

in a two-minute video, including on larouchenet. A supporter who

was there has sent a report of LPAC organizers "supporting the

Truth" about Obama, one or two threatening to attack them, and

others in the crowd immediately coming to their defense. The

Romulus, Michigan, intervention is everywhere on the Internet,

and the Vicki Tsongas meeting near Boston is now fully visible on

larouchenet and being picked up elsewhere. We have print coverage

of our Obama/Hitler organizing reported in Long Island and New

Jersey. And in many locals our field squads are "exploding" their

impact and income, as Harley reported of Texas over the weekend.

A town meeting held by Rep. Mike Burgess (R-Tx) near Dallas,

showed again that GOP Congressmen are also getting blasted by the

revolutionary heat.

Meanwhile, a growing number of "leading" Congressional

cowards has decided to have "no direct contact with [his or her]

constituents during this recess" (Diane DeGette of Colorado, in

that case).

Lyndon LaRouche said Sunday, "I repeat what I said on

Saturday about this; and I'll add now: The President, like the

King of France, and the legislative branch of the government,

have gone into hiding, and we're waiting for the rioters to reach

the Bastille.

"This is a breakdown of government. The government has fled

from the people. It is not fleeing from `mobs.' This is not

caused by the `mobs.' It's caused by the government's refusal to

deal with the problems of the American people.

"And the American people are not going to let Obama do it.

He has misjudged. Hitler was actually smarter--he knew that he

couldn't run through a euthanasia thing like this except in a

war. He said he knew it would require war. He waited until war

started, and he put it through. Obama is more stupid. He thought

he would do it without waiting to be at war. He was stupid, and

he's getting the heat for it.

"This is what we should say, although some of us will be

afraid to say it," Lyn concluded.

LMFAO! LaRouche belongs in a straight-jacket..... nuff said!

[Terry Mauro]

David,

You have your own fan base out in cyberspace. They seem to think you're the one needing a straight jacket.

If these are indeed your quotes, then you should be concerned. You remind me of the wild Jim Hackett II from the wild Black Op Radio days.

http://rossleysignorance.wetpaint.com/page...ID+GORDON+HEALY

[Terry Mauro]

"The less care they give them the more money they make".

Ehrlichman/ Nixon 1971 transcript. The birth of the HMO's and the end of Hill Burton.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcript_o...MO_act_of_1973:

[William Kelly]

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2009/db090810.gif

Doonsbury reports on the Birther Bill in congress.

"What's the end-game?"

"To flush Obama out. To delegitimize his presidency by proving he was born in Kenya"

"So it's not some wacko conspiracy theory?"

"No, no. It's being discussed on CNN."

[Don Jeffries]

The whole Obama birth certificate thing is just another distraction for the befuddled masses. Now, they do have a point- if he was indeed born outside America, then he is not qualified to be president under the constitution. Considering how bad most of the presidents born in this country have been, perhaps we ought to start importing some.

Like Peter, I strongly criticize Obama from the other side. We constantly hear how he's "trying to do too much" or "going too fast," when in fact he's struggling to take a few baby steps in the direction we absolutely must go at this point. Health care must be addressed, and the only viable solution is a one payer system, run by the government, similar to what exists in Great Britain, Canada, France, etc. The insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospital administrators, doctors and any other person making a huge living in the present health care industry will fight any reform to the death. However, there is no alternative- either the system is scrapped and a cheaper one available to all is instituted, or prices for everything in the present system must be drastically reduced. They aren't going to do that.

To give you an idea of how expensive the present system is, I have what is considered an excellent family health insurance plan. Under that program, I pay about $8000 per year in automatic deductions from my paycheck. Because of "changes" that have been instituted every year for the past decade or so, I also have to pay 10% for any hospital stay, surgery or emergency room visit. Considering that any surgery now costs several thousands of dollars, you can only imagine how catastrophic a lengthy hospital stay coupled with surgery would be. My co-pays on everything else, from office visits to x-rays, have also steadily increased. About the only thing I don't have a co-pay for any more are regular cleaning and checkups at the dentist. So at least we'll all have white teeth.

I defy even the most bureaucratic "liberal" on Capitol Hill to come up with a government run, socialized medicine plan that will increase my taxes $8000 per year. Anything they come up with has to be cheaper. Also, considering how close-minded and incompetent so many of our doctors and nurses are in this country, I also cannot believe that a socialized system could provide any poorer care than most of us receive now. If we do nothing, as it stands now, within a decade you will have citizens literally dying in the streets because they cannot afford to seek medical treatment. The costs keep going up, because there is no oversight under our present system (such things as $10 for an aspirin, for example).

Those at the top of this grossly unequal medical system reap enormous financial profits. Several hospital CEOs earned between 1 and 2 MILLION dollars in compensation last year. Obviously, most doctors make a very nice living. Registered nurses are very well paid, too. With seniority, it's easy for them to make over $100,000. Pharmacists, x-ray technicians, physical therapists and so many more supporting components of the system are all paid a nice salary. To overhaul the present system would mean that they'd almost all have to take a hefty salary cut. Still, it must be done unless we want to make health care truly a privilege and not a right (a notion many of our leaders support).

I've said it before, but the most crucial issue in America (and probably most of the world) is the huge disparity in wealth. The one obvious economic fact is that the vast majority of citizens (probably 80%) simply are not paid enough to meet the ever increasing costs of living. We either have to raise those salaries, or cut prices across the board. Coupled with the coming Social Security disaster (within a few years, the great mass of Baby Boomers will retire, and there will simply not be enough workers to pay their benefits, even if we dramatically increase Social Security taxes), this is a situation we definitely have to address. As usual, our politicians, and our media, are silent. Arguments about birth certificates, prayer in school, gun rights, etc., will not change the economic realities. We need to share the wealth.

[William Kelly]

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2009/db090810.gif

Doonsbury reports on the Birther Bill in congress.

"What's the end-game?"

"To flush Obama out. To delegitimize his presidency by proving he was born in Kenya"

"So it's not some wacko conspiracy theory?"

"No, no. It's being discussed on CNN."

JB posted this one on Lou Dobbs claims Obama is not a U.S. Citizen and cannot be president, CNN's Dobbs joins Holocaust Memorial shooter in the "birthers"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14609

But there's no link to Dobbs actually saying this. Instead there's a rant by a radical lawyer from the south calling for Dobbs to be taken off the air.

I think Dobbs has a pretty good head on his shoulders, so I can't believe he's a birther, though I guess that's what Doonsbury is all about.

[John Simkin]

Health care reform would be nice. But we can't afford it right now. I guess this will come as a revelation to some people. America is hopelessly in debt. Obama and the Democrats have spent trillions in a few months. And no one to this point has a clue as to how this reform is going to be paid for. There are even rumblings that Obama is going to break his "read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class" pledge. Maybe that's why some people are mad.

When you can't afford something, you should abstain for now. This is basic living.

Someone should tell Obama the old joke about the Eisenhower doll: You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years. Obama should just try doing nothing for a while. I know it's hard, but let some common sense come into play. This would even shut up Republicans.

When the Labour Government introduced the National Health System in 1947 they were heavily in debt (the cost of the Second World War). When they promised to do this in the 1945 general election they were described as Nazis (Churchill) and communists (they admitted to being socialists). However, the Conservative governments that followed, did not dare remove it because it was the most popular thing ever done by a British government. A recent survey showed that the NHS is the most popular aspect of British society. If Obama does bring in "socialised medicine", it will never be removed. That is why the far-right in America is spending so much money and energy on attacking the idea.

John-

How many people work for GB's national health care program?

I read that it was 1,400,000.

Is that true?

Also, does it ration care based on age, health, etc.?

Thanks.

Chris

How many people work for GB's national health care program? I read that it was 1,400,000.

I believe this website provides the actual figures:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandsta...orkforce/DH_582

Also, does it ration care based on age, health, etc.?

It has always been assumed that health care for the very old is less good than that of children. However, my mother is 95. Understandably, at her age she has several health problems. This includes diabetes and high blood pressure. Recently, she spent two weeks in a NHS hospital for two weeks, undergoing tests so that they could get her medication right. It was her doctor who suggested that she should go into hospital for this treatment. It did not cost the family any money for this. The only cost incurred was parking charges. This was easily offset by the fact that all food was paid for during this period.

My wife recently died of cancer. She had suffered from the disease for 12 years. The treatment she received from the NHS was very good and did not cost us a penny. After she was diagnosed as having terminal cancer we even received a very generous weekly sum to pay for the extra things that she needed because of her ill-health.

It is of course a traumatic event to have a loved one seriously ill. However, in Britain, you do not have to worry about having to pay the medical bills. That is why the NHS is so popular. That is why the rest of the advanced world, except for the USA, has some sort of NHS system.

I am amazed that the USA has not been able to introduce free medical care at the point of delivery. As far as I can see, the only reason for this is that your media has brainwashed the population into thinking it is a bad thing. They tried to do that to us in 1948. However, we were able to see-through that and as I said, once established, they cannot take it away from you.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Health care reform would be nice. But we can't afford it right now. I guess this will come as a revelation to some people. America is hopelessly in debt. Obama and the Democrats have spent trillions in a few months. And no one to this point has a clue as to how this reform is going to be paid for. There are even rumblings that Obama is going to break his "read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class" pledge. Maybe that's why some people are mad.

When you can't afford something, you should abstain for now. This is basic living.

Someone should tell Obama the old joke about the Eisenhower doll: You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years. Obama should just try doing nothing for a while. I know it's hard, but let some common sense come into play. This would even shut up Republicans.

When the Labour Government introduced the National Health System in 1947 they were heavily in debt (the cost of the Second World War). When they promised to do this in the 1945 general election they were described as Nazis (Churchill) and communists (they admitted to being socialists). However, the Conservative governments that followed, did not dare remove it because it was the most popular thing ever done by a British government. A recent survey showed that the NHS is the most popular aspect of British society. If Obama does bring in "socialised medicine", it will never be removed. That is why the far-right in America is spending so much money and energy on attacking the idea.

John-

How many people work for GB's national health care program?

I read that it was 1,400,000.

Is that true?

Also, does it ration care based on age, health, etc.?

Thanks.

Chris

Hi Chris, I don't know the exact number, I will try and find out, but its nothing like 1,400,000, There is, up to date, no rationing based on your catogories, everybody is entitled, by right, to the best health care that can be afforded. its far from perfect, standards of care can be a bit patchy between diferent health authorities, but the Brits love their "Socialised" health care, and as John says, no Government would dare try and remove it, there would be riots on the streets.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Stephen Turner