Jackie and the Head Shot

[Jim Feemster]

Would a sniper be that good to believe that a head shot from behind traveling towards the back of JFK 's head would not come out the other side of JFK's head and pop Jackie right in the face!

In some frames of ZAP I have seen Jackie's head lined up just in front of Jack's face as she bends to her right to see what has happened to her husband. Would not a spotter say " HOLD HOLD HOLD " when he saw that his shooter might hit the first lady.

Imagine if Jackie had her face blown away by a bullet coming from the rear {or any direction}. The public might well have gotten up in arms and want all the bad guys caught.

Doesn't this make the final head shot coming from the front a more logical direction, for a shot from the right front could, and in my opinion was, the only path a bullet could make and not put Jackie in harms way.

A shot from the south side of DP would have been just as likely to hit her in the back of the head.

I know there are other reasons for believing the final head shot came from the right front and possibly from the west end of the SBDB, but this is ,I think, as good a reason as them for nixing a shot to the back of JFK's ie... the single bullet theory.

Does this idea hold water?

jim

,

[Mark Knight]

Remember that the Z-film--like all other films--is but a 2-dimensional image. To really understand the X, Y, and Z axes, one must examine all the evidence we can get our hands on. That includes the James Altgens still photographs. While I'm not an expert in photography, photogrammetry, or any such science, it is my opinion that Jackie's face is not EVER in line with a rear shooter and JFK's head at any time prior to Z313...unless the shooter was to the west of the TSBD.

Now, I do have my questions regarding Jackie's position as she heads towards the trunk, as it relates to a rear shooter and the position of JFK's head after Z313...as JFK's head moves to the left side of the limo and downward towards the seat cushion [as opposed to the backrest] and floorboard area. My interpretation of the Z-film in this area, assuming Tom Purvis' assertion of a shot in the immediate vicinity of James Altgens' position is correct for a 3rd hit/2nd head shot, would make this a difficult shot indeed...UNLESS THE SHOOTER WAS AIMING AT JACKIE ON THE TRUNK, and the shot went just enough "high and to the right" to miss her and inflict the 2nd head wound on JFK.

But prior to Jackie's exit onto the trunk, I just can't see where Jackie would have been in the line of fire from a shooter in the rear. As I say, though, we can only infer 3 dimensions from the use of multiple sources. The Z-film alone cannot provide us that information by itself, nor can any other 2-dimensional image.

[J. William King]

Would a sniper be that good to believe that a head shot from behind traveling towards the back of JFK 's head would not come out the other side of JFK's head and pop Jackie right in the face!

In some frames of ZAP I have seen Jackie's head lined up just in front of Jack's face as she bends to her right to see what has happened to her husband. Would not a spotter say " HOLD HOLD HOLD " when he saw that his shooter might hit the first lady.

Imagine if Jackie had her face blown away by a bullet coming from the rear {or any direction}. The public might well have gotten up in arms and want all the bad guys caught.

Doesn't this make the final head shot coming from the front a more logical direction, for a shot from the right front could, and in my opinion was, the only path a bullet could make and not put Jackie in harms way.

A shot from the south side of DP would have been just as likely to hit her in the back of the head.

I know there are other reasons for believing the final head shot came from the right front and possibly from the west end of the SBDB, but this is ,I think, as good a reason as them for nixing a shot to the back of JFK's ie... the single bullet theory.

Does this idea hold water?

jim

,

I've often wondered how things would have been if Jackie had been injured or killed. If Clint Hill had been just a half a step slower and not reached the limo in time, Jackie surely would have fallen off the trunk when the limo was racing to the hospital.

JWK

[Paul Baker]

Blood and brain matter explodes out of the front of Kennedy's head, which is indicative of a shot from behind (a high constrast rendering of frame 313 shows this clearly). From Oswald's position on the sixth floor as he was shooting, I'd imagine there would have been a clearer separation between Jackie and her husband than that suggested by Zapruder's side-on position.

Who knows, Oswald may even have stopped himself from pulling the trigger if he thought there was a possibility of hitting the first lady. But, whichever way you look at it, I think it's fair to say that Jackie was in some danger.

Paul.

[Jim Feemster]

Although I didn't mention it I was also thinking of a possible head shot from the Daltex Building which ofcourse would have been a shot from behind.

And does a sniper know for sure his bullet will stay on its path after hitting dense shull bone. If Jackie is not lined up exactly to the front of JFK 's face she's pretty dern close even closer from the Daltexs' Building s' perspective.

And if the bullet had of deflected to the left after impact and came out the target's head just under his left eye it would have [ IMO } hit Jackie right in the face.

My point is how does the shooter know his projectile will not come out at a place that would send it carreening into Nelly or Greer or Jackie.

IMO, the neck shot endangers no one else in the limo.

The back shot should not endanger anyone either.

But by the time of the head shot Jackie is leaning forward and turning to her right taking her completely out of the way for either hat man or badge man on the GN fence area to make their head shot from the front.

This is my reasoning for no head shot from behind.

Thank you for yall's comments,

jim

[Denis Pointing]

Although I didn't mention it I was also thinking of a possible head shot from the Daltex Building which ofcourse would have been a shot from behind.

And does a sniper know for sure his bullet will stay on its path after hitting dense shull bone. If Jackie is not lined up exactly to the front of JFK 's face she's pretty dern close even closer from the Daltexs' Building s' perspective.

And if the bullet had of deflected to the left after impact and came out the target's head just under his left eye it would have [ IMO } hit Jackie right in the face.

My point is how does the shooter know his projectile will not come out at a place that would send it carreening into Nelly or Greer or Jackie.

IMO, the neck shot endangers no one else in the limo.

The back shot should not endanger anyone either.

But by the time of the head shot Jackie is leaning forward and turning to her right taking her completely out of the way for either hat man or badge man on the GN fence area to make their head shot from the front.

This is my reasoning for no head shot from behind.

Thank you for yall's comments,

jim

Edited December 20, 2009 by Denis Pointing

[Kathleen Collins]

Blood and brain matter explodes out of the front of Kennedy's head, which is indicative of a shot from behind (a high constrast rendering of frame 313 shows this clearly). From Oswald's position on the sixth floor as he was shooting, I'd imagine there would have been a clearer separation between Jackie and her husband than that suggested by Zapruder's side-on position.

Who knows, Oswald may even have stopped himself from pulling the trigger if he thought there was a possibility of hitting the first lady. But, whichever way you look at it, I think it's fair to say that Jackie was in some danger.

Paul.

I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading. First of all, you're dealing with tampered piece of evidence in the Zapruder Film. I suggest you read The Great Zapruder Film Hoax, edited by Dr. Fetzer. Harvey Oswald, whom the police arrested, didn't shoot at anyone that day. He was the patsy, though there might have been more potential patsies elsewhere during the motorcade. I suggest you also read Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong (whom I never met, spoke to, or corresponded with).

Kathy C

[Lee Forman]

Although I didn't mention it I was also thinking of a possible head shot from the Daltex Building which ofcourse would have been a shot from behind.

And does a sniper know for sure his bullet will stay on its path after hitting dense shull bone. If Jackie is not lined up exactly to the front of JFK 's face she's pretty dern close even closer from the Daltexs' Building s' perspective.

And if the bullet had of deflected to the left after impact and came out the target's head just under his left eye it would have [ IMO } hit Jackie right in the face.

My point is how does the shooter know his projectile will not come out at a place that would send it carreening into Nelly or Greer or Jackie.

IMO, the neck shot endangers no one else in the limo.

The back shot should not endanger anyone either.

But by the time of the head shot Jackie is leaning forward and turning to her right taking her completely out of the way for either hat man or badge man on the GN fence area to make their head shot from the front.

This is my reasoning for no head shot from behind.

Thank you for yall's comments,

jim

Place your shooter from the rear in the lower floors of the DalTex or lower floors of the Records Building - then put your practically simultaneous shot [DUM DUM] from the front further down the fenceline towards the underpass with Ol Smokey as a decoy and speed kills.

- lee

[Paul Baker]

I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading. First of all, you're dealing with tampered piece of evidence in the Zapruder Film. I suggest you read The Great Zapruder Film Hoax, edited by Dr. Fetzer. Harvey Oswald, whom the police arrested, didn't shoot at anyone that day. He was the patsy, though there might have been more potential patsies elsewhere during the motorcade. I suggest you also read Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong (whom I never met, spoke to, or corresponded with).

Kathy C

I have read it. That's why I'm convinced there was no alteration. The Great Zapruder Film Hoax proves nothing and should be sold with a health warning. I slipped into a coma before I got to the end.

[Kathleen Collins]

I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading. First of all, you're dealing with tampered piece of evidence in the Zapruder Film. I suggest you read The Great Zapruder Film Hoax, edited by Dr. Fetzer. Harvey Oswald, whom the police arrested, didn't shoot at anyone that day. He was the patsy, though there might have been more potential patsies elsewhere during the motorcade. I suggest you also read Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong (whom I never met, spoke to, or corresponded with).

Kathy C

I have read it. That's why I'm convinced there was no alteration. The Great Zapruder Film Hoax proves nothing and should be sold with a health warning. I slipped into a coma before I got to the end.

Look at the film itself. Youtube.com would have it. Splices in the most important footage in history. The car lurched to a stop, Greer, the SS driver, turned to see Kennedy. Kennedy got the fatal head shot from right front. When this happened Greer drove away quickly. Watch the bodies as the car stops (but isn't shown). They move forward from the suddeness of the stop. A lot has been removed from that film.

Kathy C

[Denis Pointing]

I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading. First of all, you're dealing with tampered piece of evidence in the Zapruder Film. I suggest you read The Great Zapruder Film Hoax, edited by Dr. Fetzer. Harvey Oswald, whom the police arrested, didn't shoot at anyone that day. He was the patsy, though there might have been more potential patsies elsewhere during the motorcade. I suggest you also read Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong (whom I never met, spoke to, or corresponded with).

Kathy C

That's a matter of opinion Kathy, as far as I'm concerned Fetzer and Armstrong are an embarrassment to any serious researcher and total liability's to the conspiracy theory in general.

Armstrong's 'research' is so wacko I seriously suspect his real purpose was to make us all look like nut's.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Denis Pointing

[Mark Knight]

I believe that frames may have been excised from the original Z-film to produce the version we all know; but I don't think the contents of what we currently have are otherwise altered...unless all the other known films [movies and still photographs] have also been altered. And while not 100% impossible, it's highly unlikely. [DISCLAIMER: I'm not a photo expert...this is just my opinion.]

The reason I believe that the current version of the Z-film may have frames missing is the night-and-day difference in the witnesses' stories about the presidential limo slowing/stopping, vs. the current version of the Z-film's depiction of Greer apparently having the "pedal to the metal", "putting the hammer down," "running WFO," or however you choose to say it. If Greer kept a constant--or constantly increasing--rate of speed, as it appears in the current version of the Z-film, there would be no reason for ANY of the witnesses to have the perception that the limo slowed or stopped...even if Greer did momentarily light the brake lights.

As far as the original premise of this topic, from the various photos from various perspectives in Dealey Plaza, as I understand things, the only way an assassin could possibly have hit Jackie and JFK simultaneously around the time of the Z313 headshot would be if the assassin was located somewhere south of the Elm Street "extension," to the west of the TSBD...yet still behind the limo. IOW, right behind the Newmans [hope I remembered the correct name], and NORTH of the location of Badgeman.