Capt. Michael D. Groves

[William Kelly]

Note from the former neighbor:

Groves was Captain of the (White House) Guard. The Captains are selected by the incoming president and serve as Captain of the Guard during that presidents term of office. Members of the Guard are selected from all branches of the armed forces.

...The White House is a military post and the Guard is there to protect the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Upon the death of the president the Captain of the Guard assumes command of the White House until such time as he is relieved of command by the newly sworn in president. In this case there were more than a few hours before LBJ could get back to Washington to relieve Capt. Groves. During that time he was privy to all communications coming into the White House.

The other thing I'd like to add is that Don and Gladys Groves did not take a bribe to keep quiet, as insinuated by someone else in the forum. I can only speculate that they were concerned for their daughters and grand childrens safety.

The daughter, as I stated in my conversation with you was very vocal about the "murder" of her brother. She told me that "they" tried to get her committed and "they" told her if she didn't "shut up" she'd never see her kids again. It doesn't surprise me that she died in 1978 about 5 years after her last conversation with me.

Just trying to set the record straight, PS. People who offend the sensibilities of the establishment usually get crushed or worse yet dead...be afraid. There are still individuals living who are part of the conspiracy. Arlen Specter being just one.

So Bill

What steps, if any, have you taken to confirm this supposed ex-neighbor is who they claim they are? Has s/he offered you any documentation in support of his claims?

The claim Groves would have been "privy to all communications coming into the White House" reeks of BS

Also it was you, seemingly quoting him, who insinuated the father was bought off by Ford

Hi Len,

I have taken no steps to confirm his bonifides as a neighbor, but I believe him after talking with him for an hour on the telephone.

He's not making any claims that can't be checked out, and there's no sense in checking him out when you can check out his source - the parents and sister - who are the ones we are seeking, right?

You want to kill the messenger, forget it.

The father of Capt. Groves, reportedly a Ford company official, was given a new car every year and a big pension and sent out to pasture. I never said the words "bought off," that's you speculating again.

As for Capt. Groves' job description, and what communications he was privy to, that and a photo of him at the funeral would be additions to the known record that you can help provide, but I don't think you have the research abilities to provide anything new. You want to pick a fight, but don't have a punch.

Prove me wrong.

Give me a real job description of Capt. Groves and a photo of him at the funeral he helped plan.

Bill Kelly

Even if I hadn't read the book or seen the movie you would have been unlikely to have Tom Sawyered me into doing YOUR research for you. While its true the supposed neighbor`s claims can be verified you have made no effort to do so. he's your source it's your area of interest its your vauge insinuations which don't even amount to a theory. You have yet to come up with a motive for murdering him let alone one tied to the assassination.

As for the possibility his dad was bought off you continue to insinuate that while refusing to own up to it. You are better then that, leave such sleezy tactic to Fetzer and his ilk.

Of course you don't want to find a photo of Groves at the funeral or call the living men from his unit and find out when he died, or take what we know and add something worthwhile to it, stretching the truth further, all you want to do is argue and pick fights.

I don't have to verify the neighbor's bonifides after talking with him, I judge that for myself, and check out what he says and verify the facts, identify any records and living witnesses who can be questioned, moving way beyond the whistleblowing neighbor.

And they aren't MY insuenations, they are those of the neighbor and apparently the parents and sister, and other soldiers, some of whom served with him.

Of course that's YOUR insuenation that the father was "bought off," I just quoted the neighbor as saying he was a Ford company man, who got a fresh car every year and had a good pension.

The sister apparently claimed to have been threatened.

You don't have to do any reseach or homework at all if you just want to be a bully in the playground picking fights.

BK

[Kathleen Collins]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

The man is saluting the priest as he just handed him the folded flag.

Kathy C

[Bernice Moore]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

The man is saluting the priest as he just handed him the folded flag.

Kathy C

THANKS KATHY, AND AS CAPTAIN OF THE W/H GUARD HE WOULD BE HANDED THE FLAG AND TAKE THE SALUTE,TO THE FLAG, COME ON YOU FELLAS EX MILITARY OUT THERE, WOULD HE...???THANKS B EXCUSE CAPS TXS

Edited March 18, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[William Kelly]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

The man is saluting the priest as he just handed him the folded flag.

Kathy C

THANKS KATHY, AND AS CAPTAIN OF THE W/H GUARD HE WOULD BE HANDED THE FLAG AND TAKE THE SALUTE,TO THE FLAG, COME ON YOU FELLAS EX MILITARY OUT THERE, WOULD HE...???THANKS B EXCUSE CAPS TXS

Are you sure these are Nov. 25th photos of JFK's funeral?

Also looking for photos of the practice funeral of November 24?

Thanks to all who look into this and try to take it Further.

BK

[William Kelly]

General Campbell Wehle - General Military District of Washington

Richard Lipsey - His assistant

Col. Holden - Ordered Lipsey and others not to discuss the autopsy.

Lt. Samuel Bird - Present. Head of the Old Guard.

Wehle and honor guard fly from Andrews to Bethesda in helicopter (with JFK?)

while they ran a "decoy" hearst "driven to the front."

"After entering the morgue and the autopsy room, Lipsey could only recall one other person besides the doctors as present inthe autopsy room.That was Lt. Samuel Bird, head of the Old Guard."

No Capt. Michael D. Graves

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb...et/pdf/md87.pdf

[Bernice Moore]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

The man is saluting the priest as he just handed him the folded flag.

Kathy C

THANKS KATHY, AND AS CAPTAIN OF THE W/H GUARD HE WOULD BE HANDED THE FLAG AND TAKE THE SALUTE,TO THE FLAG, COME ON YOU FELLAS EX MILITARY OUT THERE, WOULD HE...???THANKS B EXCUSE CAPS TXS

Are you sure these are Nov. 25th photos of JFK's funeral?

Also looking for photos of the practice funeral of November 24?

Thanks to all who look into this and try to take it Further.

BK

yes Bill from LIFE MAGAZINE LINK ON THE WEB TO JFK FUNERAL...B

[Kathleen Collins]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

What is that big white-out in the photo?

Kathy C

[Jim Feemster]

Hi Bill,

Just a little tidbit about the Honor Guard.

When in boot camp at Fort Polk, Louisana in 1973 I was instructed to report to the captian of our training brigade. He informed me that I had been chosen to be interviewed for the White House honor guard.

The reasons I was called I think, was because I was 20 years old, I had one semester of college, I had joined [ not drafted ], and my father was a policeman, and of course I had no police record.

This captian informed me that as an honor guard you cannot curse and would not curse for the rest of your life. That you must not drink.

That you must always be " strike" [ perfect grooming of yourself and your uniform ] at all times. That you must pull 12 hours of duty per shift. That you cannot wear glasses [ i did } but you could wear contact lenses. That you could not have any tatoos. And probably more things I can't think of now.

Just thought I pass this info along to show what character honor guards must have.

I didn't get picked get but always felt a little proud to be considered.

jim

[Len Colby]

Of course you don't want to find a photo of Groves at the funeral

There are many photos of the funeral and I imagine only a fraction are available online and even of those many have people who are not identified so your inability to find one proves nothing. Why not make a day (or two) trip to DC to visit the Archives and LoC? Arlington, the Old Guard and Army might have their own collections. This is your obsession not mine. You’re in the Eastern US about3 hours from DC, I’m in Brazil

or call the living men from his unit and find out when he died,

See above

or take what we know and add something worthwhile to it, stretching the truth further, all you want to do is argue and pick fights.

I’m pointing out holes in your lines of thinking. If you choose to get offended its your problem

I don't have to verify the neighbor's bonifides after talking with him, I judge that for myself, and check out what he says and verify the facts, identify any records and living witnesses who can be questioned, moving way beyond the whistleblowing neighbor.

But so far it seems like all you have is the supposed neighbor who you trust because he’s telling exactly what you want to hear.

And they aren't MY insuenations, they are those of the neighbor and apparently the parents and sister, and other soldiers, some of whom served with him.

Do you have any confirmation of what he says?

Of course that's YOUR insuenation that the father was "bought off," I just quoted the neighbor as saying he was a Ford company man, who got a fresh car every year and had a good pension.

And there you go insinuating it again, why is that relevant? You wrote:

Well I received an email and phone call from a former neighbor of Captain Groves' parents, and THEY-

the parents suspected he was murdered

. The father worked for FORD Motor company and

was taken care of by the company

. There's also a sister who suspected he was murdered.

Why else did you tell us "the father...was taken care of by the company" immediately after telling us "the parents suspected he was murdered"?

The sister apparently claimed to have been threatened.

Once again it seems all you’ve got is what the supposed neighbor is telling you.

You don't have to do any reseach or homework at all if you just want to be a bully in the playground picking fights.

Why should I have to research your pet theories? And how does asking you questions and politely challenging some of your assertions constitute bullying

As for your other post Lipsey was confused either about Bird's rank or his title. Capt. Groves was "the company commander of Honor Guard Company" not the entire Old Infantry your 1st post mentions another Captain who was "captain of D Company" and thus the presumably were A,B & C Companies, lieutenants are NOT the CO's of captains it's the other way round. The CO of the "Old Infantry" must have been a major or higher.

Also according to your first post the "captain of D Company...was assigned the responsibility of organizing all of the details of the interment ceremonies (arranging for the Eternal Flame, the Irish Guard, dignitaries, etc.) at Arlington National Cemetery three days later."

Jim,

Did they tell you why they turned you down?

Edited March 19, 2010 by Len Colby

[Bernice Moore]

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

What is that big white-out in the photo?

Kathy C

i think your talking about the back of a womens head scarf ...like a veil...b

something like a mantilla, if you recall jackie used to wear them at times...b

Edited March 19, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

It's one of the dignitaries at the funeral, i have no idea who, what or where from, b

here is just one site that has this photo, used for research purposes only, there are many sites that have this photo also...b

http://www.tapsbugler.com/BrokenNote.html

Edited March 19, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[William Kelly]

Hi Bill,

Just a little tidbit about the Honor Guard.

When in boot camp at Fort Polk, Louisana in 1973 I was instructed to report to the captian of our training brigade. He informed me that I had been chosen to be interviewed for the White House honor guard.

The reasons I was called I think, was because I was 20 years old, I had one semester of college, I had joined [ not drafted ], and my father was a policeman, and of course I had no police record.

This captian informed me that as an honor guard you cannot curse and would not curse for the rest of your life. That you must not drink.

That you must always be " strike" [ perfect grooming of yourself and your uniform ] at all times. That you must pull 12 hours of duty per shift. That you cannot wear glasses [ i did } but you could wear contact lenses. That you could not have any tatoos. And probably more things I can't think of now.

Just thought I pass this info along to show what character honor guards must have.

I didn't get picked get but always felt a little proud to be considered.

jim

Thanks Jim,

I know those guys must have had scruples, and therefore, it is interesting that we can't find any confirmed photos of Capt. Groves, and it appears that there was some shennagians concerning his death, the timing of his death, and his funeral.

You would think that an organization as tight as the Honor Guards would have a very detailed and unambiguous history.

BK

[William Kelly]

Of course you don't want to find a photo of Groves at the funeral

Prove the insunitions wrong by coming up with a photo of Groves at the funeral of JFK.

You can do that from Brazil.

My obsession is to find the truth, yours is to poke holes in it.

If Groves had anything to do with the funeral of JFK there should be a photo of him there.

If he died before the funeral, then his military records have been falisified with a wrong date of death.

What's my obsession, trying to figure out a anomally in the official record?

Certainly questions you don't want to try to answer.

BK

There are many photos of the funeral and I imagine only a fraction are available online and even of those many have people who are not identified so your inability to find one proves nothing. Why not make a day (or two) trip to DC to visit the Archives and LoC? Arlington, the Old Guard and Army might have their own collections. This is your obsession not mine. You’re in the Eastern US about3 hours from DC, I’m in Brazil

or call the living men from his unit and find out when he died,

See above

or take what we know and add something worthwhile to it, stretching the truth further, all you want to do is argue and pick fights.

I’m pointing out holes in your lines of thinking. If you choose to get offended its your problem

I don't have to verify the neighbor's bonifides after talking with him, I judge that for myself, and check out what he says and verify the facts, identify any records and living witnesses who can be questioned, moving way beyond the whistleblowing neighbor.

But so far it seems like all you have is the supposed neighbor who you trust because he’s telling exactly what you want to hear.

And they aren't MY insuenations, they are those of the neighbor and apparently the parents and sister, and other soldiers, some of whom served with him.

Do you have any confirmation of what he says?

Of course that's YOUR insuenation that the father was "bought off," I just quoted the neighbor as saying he was a Ford company man, who got a fresh car every year and had a good pension.

And there you go insinuating it again, why is that relevant? You wrote:

Well I received an email and phone call from a former neighbor of Captain Groves' parents, and THEY-

the parents suspected he was murdered

. The father worked for FORD Motor company and

was taken care of by the company

. There's also a sister who suspected he was murdered.

Why else did you tell us "the father...was taken care of by the company" immediately after telling us "the parents suspected he was murdered"?

The sister apparently claimed to have been threatened.

Once again it seems all you’ve got is what the supposed neighbor is telling you.

You don't have to do any reseach or homework at all if you just want to be a bully in the playground picking fights.

Why should I have to research your pet theories? And how does asking you questions and politely challenging some of your assertions constitute bullying

As for your other post Lipsey was confused either about Bird's rank or his title. Capt. Groves was "the company commander of Honor Guard Company" not the entire Old Infantry your 1st post mentions another Captain who was "captain of D Company" and thus the presumably were A,B & C Companies, lieutenants are NOT the CO's of captains it's the other way round. The CO of the "Old Infantry" must have been a major or higher.

Also according to your first post the "captain of D Company...was assigned the responsibility of organizing all of the details of the interment ceremonies (arranging for the Eternal Flame, the Irish Guard, dignitaries, etc.) at Arlington National Cemetery three days later."

Jim,

Did they tell you why they turned you down?

[William Kelly]

General Campbell Wehle - General Military District of Washington

Richard Lipsey - His assistant

Col. Holden - Ordered Lipsey and others not to discuss the autopsy.

Lt. Samuel Bird - Present. Head of the Old Guard.

Wehle and honor guard fly from Andrews to Bethesda in helicopter (with JFK?)

while they ran a "decoy" hearst "driven to the front."

"After entering the morgue and the autopsy room, Lipsey could only recall one other person besides the doctors as present inthe autopsy room.That was Lt. Samuel Bird, head of the Old Guard."

No Capt. Michael D. Graves

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb...et/pdf/md87.pdf

Here's the assistant to the military general of Washington, responsible for all official funerals, acknowledging that they ran a deception operation that included a "decoy" hearst in the course of delivering JFK's coffin to Bethesda for the autopsy.

And nobody thinks this is worth commenting on?

BK

[Bernice Moore]

Bill i believe there is a lead name, member of the honour guard here...b

I led the Caparisoned Horse throughout the State Funeral for President John F. Kennedy in November 1963. Black Jack (named for General “Black Jack” Pershing) was the last horse with an Army serial number. He had come from the Remount Station at Fort Reno and had 2CV-56 branded on the left side of his neck, and US branded on his left flank. He had very small hooves, and no one was allowed to ride him.

WALKING HORSE FOR PRESIDENT KENNEDY Arthur A. Carlson

When President Kennedy was assassinated, I was in an off-post Laundromat. I had been Charge of Quarters (CQ) in the stable the night before and had the day off, and was doing my laundry. When I was walking back to our barracks, I passed some people clustered around a car, listening to the radio. That is when I learned of the assassination. I was stunned.

At the time I was a 19 year old Private First Class in The Old Guard at Fort Myer, Virginia and had been walking the caparisoned horse (usually Black Jack, sometimes Shorty) in funerals in Arlington National Cemetery (ANC) for about nine months. The caparisoned horse in a military funeral procession is an ancient tradition, symbolizing a fallen leader who will ride no more. A caparison is “an ornamental covering for a horse or for its saddle or harness.” A caparisoned horse with walker will follow a caisson in a funeral at ANC if the deceased was an Army or Marine Corps colonel or above, or had ever served in a mounted outfit. The horse’s tack consists of bridle, saddle and blanket, boots and saber. The boots are turned backward in the stirrups to symbolize the fallen leader looking back over

WALKING HORSE FOR PRESIDENT KENNEDY Arthur A. Carlson

When President Kennedy was assassinated, I was in an off-post Laundromat. I had been Charge of Quarters (CQ) in the stable the night before and had the day off, and was doing my laundry. When I was walking back to our barracks, I passed some people clustered around a car, listening to the radio. That is when I learned of the assassination. I was stunned.

At the time I was a 19 year old Private First Class in The Old Guard at Fort Myer, Virginia and had been walking the caparisoned horse (usually Black Jack, sometimes Shorty) in funerals in Arlington National Cemetery (ANC) for about nine months. The caparisoned horse in a military funeral procession is an ancient tradition, symbolizing a fallen leader who will ride no more. A caparison is “an ornamental covering for a horse or for its saddle or harness.” A caparisoned horse with walker will follow a caisson in a funeral at ANC if the deceased was an Army or Marine Corps colonel or above, or had ever served in a mounted outfit. The horse’s tack consists of bridle, saddle and blanket, boots and saber. The boots are turned backward in the stirrups to symbolize the fallen leader looking back over

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2143214/posts

PFC Arthur Carlson waits with Black Jack for President Kennedys coffin to be brought down the Capitol steps, 25 November 1963. Photo: John F. Kennedy Library...........

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/blackjack.htm

...........http://www.jvmusic.net/11thWingKennedyFuneral.html http://www.jvmusic.net/11thWingKennedyFuneral.html[/url]

Edited March 20, 2010 by Bernice Moore