Mark Haley Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 25 Feb 1911 FA Cup 3rd Round West Ham v Manchester Utd 2-1. 27,000 Very brief footage that suggests West Ham were playing at home in White shirts: The poster of the footage has incorrectly dated it as 1912. However the clip apparently matches a photo in a recent ex-Hammer magazine article. I think it's possible that West Ham were required to change their shirts on the day because of a clash of colours. I don't know if Man Utd had played West Ham ( still a Southern League team) before and may not have been aware of a potential clash between red & claret. Just over 69 years later, West Ham won the toss to choose colours for the FA Cup Final against Arsenal. We chose to wear White shirts which had proved 'lucky' in the semi-finals against Everton (and also against Arsenal & Ipswich in the succesful 1975 campaign). I suppose it's unlikely but maybe the 'lucky White shirt' tradition went back even further...all the way to February 1911 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 25 Feb 1911 FA Cup 3rd Round West Ham v Manchester Utd 2-1. 27,000 Very brief footage that suggests West Ham were playing at home in White shirts: The poster of the footage has incorrectly dated it as 1912. However the clip apparently matches a photo in a recent ex-Hammer magazine article. I think it's possible that West Ham were required to change their shirts on the day because of a clash of colours. I don't know if Man Utd had played West Ham ( still a Southern League team) before and may not have been aware of a potential clash between red & claret. Just over 69 years later, West Ham won the toss to choose colours for the FA Cup Final against Arsenal. We chose to wear White shirts which had proved 'lucky' in the semi-finals against Everton (and also against Arsenal & Ipswich in the succesful 1975 campaign). I suppose it's unlikely but maybe the 'lucky White shirt' tradition went back even further...all the way to February 1911 ? You might be interested in this email that I received from Grant Hole: I have e-mailed Historical Kits with my discovery that South West Ham FC were nicknamed 'Pink Uns' and am waiting for a reply. I have also e-mailed John Hellier and again am awaiting a reply. Right, while I'm waiting for e-mail replies lets have an overview of the situation with club strips. I am 100% happy with all but three of the strips cataloged on the Historical Kits site. The three I'm unhappy with are 1) the 1899 claret and blue in the modern combination. 2) The 1900/1 Castle blue over white shorts and black socks. And, 3) the 1901-3 Castle blue shirt with claret band over white shorts and claret socks. 1. I would be surprised if this claret and blue kit in the modern combination appeared as early as 1899. I think the modern combination of claret and blue is *probably* an evolution from Castle blue shirts - to Castle blue shirts with a claret band - to claret shirts with Castle blue sleeves. That evolutionary process puts claret shirts in the modern combination not before 1903 when surprise surprise the first pictures of them appear. I think this 1899 business is due to the Charlie Dove sprint race story which I havn't seen any good evidence for, the kit on HK is marked corroboration needed and is partly attributed to Wikipedia, and the Villa historians say as far as they're concerned there's no link between WHU and Villa kit. 2. Castle blue shirts over white shorts and black socks. This is a logical progression from the Castle blue shirts, white shorts, and scarlet socks 100% known to have been worn by Thames Iron Works 1897-9. I think this is more *likely* than the pink shirts which would have needed to have appeared from no known background. Add to this that it is *likely* that South West Ham FC wore pink kit from their nickname of 'Pink Uns' which provides good scope for confusion. I would like to know the reasons why pink kit was listed by HK, and why that was changed to blue - I havn't seen good evidence for either. 3. Castle blue shirts with a claret hoop, over white shorts and claret socks. Again I think this is a logical progression, Castle blue shirt to which the claret of the ironworks has been added, in recognition of both Castle and ironworks - Again I havn't seen good evidence though. Some good evidence is needed either for pink or Castle blue, and the 1899 modern combination of claret and blue needs to be subject to greater question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Haley Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Oh well, it seems West Ham changed their 2nd kit to 'all White' because of the power cuts in the early 1970's. Mid-week games were played under reduced floodlighting and a referee felt our famous Bobby Moore 'Light Blue with Claret hoops (first worn in a pre-season tournament in Austria 1959) would be difficult to distinguish against the Ipswich shirt (much earlier than the 1975 Cup Semi-Final). However the decision to wear all white in the 1980 Cup Final was entirely down to the white kit being perceived as lucky. Further to the 1911 game, it appears at that time home teams may have been required to change when there was a colour clash. Mark Edited October 5, 2009 by Mark Haley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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