The tiresome 'Lone gunman' theory

[Guest]

You make the same mistake that Allen Dulles does at the first meeting of the Warren Commisison when he tried to pawn off a book on American assassins that makes this same case for lone nut gunman as peculiar to American society. But by mentioning the Lincoln assassination, McCloy points out that this WAS a conspiracy.

Now there's a conspiracy theory that sold a lot of books so there's at least one common denominator. I particularly like the Charley Shively theory of a circle of gay conspirators identified thus because they wore rings on their little fingers - urgent request for Occam's Razor!!

Sic semper tyrannis!

[David G. Healy]

...

Now there's a conspiracy theory that sold a lot of books so there's at least one common denominator. I particularly like the Charley Shively theory of a circle of gay conspirators identified thus because they wore rings on their little fingers - urgent request for Occam's Razor!!

Sic semper tyrannis!

Andy,

You really need to stay off the golf courses for a bit -- at least till you get that shank shot that's now hooking fixed. Wow!

[Mark Knight]

The full truth of what occurred on November 22, 1963 in Dealy Plaza may never be known. The facts are that JFK was shot and died from his wounds, and John Connally was injured by gunfire while riding in the same car. Of those facts we are certain. But no one can with 100% certainty place Lee Harvey Oswald in the southwest [or any other] window of the TSBD at 12:30 pm on the date in question...nor can anyone with 100% certainty place any rifle in Oswald's hands at the time and place of the shooting. Yet there are those on this forum and elsewhere who will argue to the death that Oswald was certainly the assassin, to the exclusion of every other human being in the Dealy Plaza vicinity on that date at the time the fatal shots were fired.

I find that a curious position.

That's all very black and white Mark, you seem to have overlooked those of us on the forum who reside more in the 'grey' area so to speak. We certainly believe in a conspiracy but we also believe there's more than enough evidence to place Oswald withing that conspiracy, not just as a 'patsy' but as a very willing and capable participant, perhaps even the actual shooter. As for John Wilson's comment "Why on earth do they even bother? Most Americans (and world populus?), according to endless polls, do not believe the fantastic Warren Report?" Well John, frankly I have never been over impressed by what the majority believes. I think those "Most Americans (and world populus?)" which you mention also probably believe the moon landing was a hoax, the Loch Ness monster is real and that Earth is being constantly visited by little green men etc etc. All of which may of course indeed be true but strong evidence/proof is required, not just the belief systems of the world populous. And like it or not we Ct's have to accept that, as yet, there just isn't enough evidence to prove the Warren report to be the white wash it undoubtedly was.

Incidentally John, welcome to the forum. Denis

Denis, it appears you have misinterpreted what I wrote. At no point am I arguing that Oswald was not in some way involved in the assassination of JFK. Rather, I merely pointed out that no one can place that man in that--or any other--window with that rifle at the moment the shots were fired. In and of itself, that constitutes reasonable doubt. I believe that Oswald was connected with the ordering of A Mannlicher-Carcano rifle; just not that it is the same rifle that was recovered from the TSBD. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. Maybe, as has been suggested on another thread about Ozzie and the Intourist vouchers, LHO had some "inside information"...in this case, information on what "department code" to use on his order to get one of the "good" Carcanos while everyone else who didn't have the proper code got the junk rifles. But there simply isn't enough PROOF to place Oswald with his finger on the trigger in Dealy Plaza at 12:30 pm on November 22, 1963. There are plausible THEORIES, but not overwhelming [or as commonly referred to these days, "smoking-gun"] PROOF that Oswald shot anybody.

So while I believe that Oswald MAY be the guilty party, I'm not convinced that he was the ONLY guilty party...or that he was guilty at all. So I really haven't formed a set-in-stone opinion as to whether a conspiracy existed. If one did, the odds are that Oswald was either involved, or at least had some idea of who was involved. Too many of his actions, both prior to and subsequent to the assassination, reek of dime-story spy novel skullduggery, whether it was directed, or whether it was concocted within his own mind...IMHO.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Mark Knight

[Guest]

...

Now there's a conspiracy theory that sold a lot of books so there's at least one common denominator. I particularly like the Charley Shively theory of a circle of gay conspirators identified thus because they wore rings on their little fingers - urgent request for Occam's Razor!!

Sic semper tyrannis!

Andy,

You really need to stay off the golf courses for a bit -- at least till you get that shank shot that's now hooking fixed. Wow!

If you can show me a shank 'that hooks' then we really might have discovered a magic bullet

[David G. Healy]

...

Now there's a conspiracy theory that sold a lot of books so there's at least one common denominator. I particularly like the Charley Shively theory of a circle of gay conspirators identified thus because they wore rings on their little fingers - urgent request for Occam's Razor!!

Sic semper tyrannis!

Andy,

You really need to stay off the golf courses for a bit -- at least till you get that shank shot that's now hooking fixed. Wow!

If you can show me a shank 'that hooks' then we really might have discovered a magic bullet

welcome to Dallas, Andy! ALL things are possible

[Denis Pointing]

Denis, it appears you have misinterpreted what I wrote. At no point am I arguing that Oswald was not in some way involved in the assassination of JFK. Rather, I merely pointed out that no one can place that man in that--or any other--window with that rifle at the moment the shots were fired. In and of itself, that constitutes reasonable doubt. I believe that Oswald was connected with the ordering of A Mannlicher-Carcano rifle; just not that it is the same rifle that was recovered from the TSBD. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. Maybe, as has been suggested on another thread about Ozzie and the Intourist vouchers, LHO had some "inside information"...in this case, information on what "department code" to use on his order to get one of the "good" Carcanos while everyone else who didn't have the proper code got the junk rifles. But there simply isn't enough PROOF to place Oswald with his finger on the trigger in Dealy Plaza at 12:30 pm on November 22, 1963. There are plausible THEORIES, but not overwhelming [or as commonly referred to these days, "smoking-gun"] PROOF that Oswald shot anybody.

So while I believe that Oswald MAY be the guilty party, I'm not convinced that he was the ONLY guilty party...or that he was guilty at all. So I really haven't formed a set-in-stone opinion as to whether a conspiracy existed. If one did, the odds are that Oswald was either involved, or at least had some idea of who was involved. Too many of his actions, both prior to and subsequent to the assassination, reek of dime-story spy novel skullduggery, whether it was directed, or whether it was concocted within his own mind...IMHO.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Denis Pointing

[Brian O Connor]

One that I watched, I can't remember it's daft title, but it contained something dramatic in order to perhaps shock us into obedience(?), even had the gall to keep blatanly making definite 'factual' statements which denied anything other than the square peg into the round hole, ie. Oswald was a Communist, came back to the USA, bought a gun, got a job overlooking the Plaza and fired his amazingly accurate shots into the President from afar...in record time.

CIA spin?

Why on earth do they even bother? Most Americans (and world populus?), according to endless polls, do not believe the fantastic Warren Report?

Hi John, but isn't the fact that there are still many many people still believing the WR (and I know quite a few), the more astonishing statistic.

Brian

[Peter McGuire]

The full truth of what occurred on November 22, 1963 in Dealy Plaza may never be known. The facts are that JFK was shot and died from his wounds, and John Connally was injured by gunfire while riding in the same car. Of those facts we are certain. But no one can with 100% certainty place Lee Harvey Oswald in the southwest [or any other] window of the TSBD at 12:30 pm on the date in question...nor can anyone with 100% certainty place any rifle in Oswald's hands at the time and place of the shooting. Yet there are those on this forum and elsewhere who will argue to the death that Oswald was certainly the assassin, to the exclusion of every other human being in the Dealy Plaza vicinity on that date at the time the fatal shots were fired.

I find that a curious position.

I do too. The propaganda machine moves forward with this weekends indoctrination on the History Channel.