Jump to content
The Education Forum

Real execution of a man shot in the head from behind


Guest Duncan MacRae
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest Duncan MacRae

You all might want to take a look at this real execution. As far as I am aware, only one of the executioner's rifles was loaded, so only one bullet struck the condemned man.

Note that the point of entry, imo, is almost identical to where Kennedy was struck, the only difference that I can see is that there is no back and to the left movement.

I've slowed down the video in order to see the impact and head and body movement properly. Do not watch if you are squeemish.

Click here to watch a real execution of a man shot in the head from behind.

exec1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You all might want to take a look at this real execution...

Thank you Duncan MacRae, and may your shadow never grow less.

I did a quick google on Pietro Caruso and found this in Time Mag:

Monday, Oct. 02, 1944

ITALY: Death of a Fascist

A closed grey van drove into the courtyard of Rome's Fort Bravetta. It stopped by a hillock of brown grass, browner dirt. In front of the hillock stood a nakedly bare pine chair.*

The van's rear door opened. A file of carabinieri in grey-green uniforms stepped out. One of them carried a pair of crutches. A black-robed priest came next Then, leaning on the shoulders of two carabinieri, Pietro Caruso appeared.

First Italian Fascist condemned by a court of Italy's national government, Caruso had been the most hated man in Rome since Mussolini sent him down from the north to be chief of the capital's police and quell the rising opposition to war and Fascism. He had been a practising sadist. He had kept a private apartment where he personally tortured prize victims. He had been lame since the day a gnat flew into his eye as he raced northward in an open car to escape the Allies. The car had swerved into a ditch. Caruso broke his hip.

Now his left foot barely touched the ground as he leaned on the carabinieri. He had stood so when he cried to the court that all he had done was at the orders of higher Fascists and Germans. He had stood so when he was condemned. Now he stood at the place of his death. He wore a bright blue suit, well cut. A white handkerchief flowered from his jacket pocket. He had not shaved well.

"Aim Well." A carabiniere brought his crutches. Caruso carefully hunched his body on them, swung himself over to the chair. He had trouble straddling it, his face to the hillock. Quickly Caruso's pudgy body was bound to the chair's back. Then he was left with the priest. They talked. Caruso prayed and kissed a tiny crucifix attached to a specially blessed rosary that Pope Pius XII had sent him. The priest stepped away.

Caruso turned his head a little. Those nearest heard him say, in a voice that was neither a cry nor a shout, but a husky statement, startingly clear: "Viva l'Italia! Aim well."

Eight standing, eight kneeling, 16 policemen aimed well, fired. A straight row of white cut stitched across Caruso's back. The back of his head dissolved. For a still moment the courtyard belonged to death. Then there was a brief babel as photographers rushed in for closeups.

*Execution by shooting a seated man in the back is an old Fascist custom.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,933111,00.html

SInce this is a WW11 ITALIAN execution, the rifles used were probably Carcanos similar to the one planted in the TSBD, and it should be possible to research the type of ammunition used.

I also found this video, which shows a brief clip of the same execution from a different angle. (THe commentary describes it as the execution of Mussolini, but it is in fact Caruso) The execution scene comes towards the end of the video, and perhaps you can slow it down.

http://executions.justsickxxxx.com/2008/03...y-firing-squad/

THis is a fantastic find, Duncan, and thank you again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You all might want to take a look at this real execution...

Thank you Duncan MacRae, and may your shadow never grow less.

I did a quick google on Pietro Caruso and found this in Time Mag:

Monday, Oct. 02, 1944

ITALY: Death of a Fascist

A closed grey van drove into the courtyard of Rome's Fort Bravetta. It stopped by a hillock of brown grass, browner dirt. In front of the hillock stood a nakedly bare pine chair.*

The van's rear door opened. A file of carabinieri in grey-green uniforms stepped out. One of them carried a pair of crutches. A black-robed priest came next Then, leaning on the shoulders of two carabinieri, Pietro Caruso appeared.

First Italian Fascist condemned by a court of Italy's national government, Caruso had been the most hated man in Rome since Mussolini sent him down from the north to be chief of the capital's police and quell the rising opposition to war and Fascism. He had been a practising sadist. He had kept a private apartment where he personally tortured prize victims. He had been lame since the day a gnat flew into his eye as he raced northward in an open car to escape the Allies. The car had swerved into a ditch. Caruso broke his hip.

Now his left foot barely touched the ground as he leaned on the carabinieri. He had stood so when he cried to the court that all he had done was at the orders of higher Fascists and Germans. He had stood so when he was condemned. Now he stood at the place of his death. He wore a bright blue suit, well cut. A white handkerchief flowered from his jacket pocket. He had not shaved well.

"Aim Well." A carabiniere brought his crutches. Caruso carefully hunched his body on them, swung himself over to the chair. He had trouble straddling it, his face to the hillock. Quickly Caruso's pudgy body was bound to the chair's back. Then he was left with the priest. They talked. Caruso prayed and kissed a tiny crucifix attached to a specially blessed rosary that Pope Pius XII had sent him. The priest stepped away.

Caruso turned his head a little. Those nearest heard him say, in a voice that was neither a cry nor a shout, but a husky statement, startingly clear: "Viva l'Italia! Aim well."

Eight standing, eight kneeling, 16 policemen aimed well, fired. A straight row of white cut stitched across Caruso's back. The back of his head dissolved. For a still moment the courtyard belonged to death. Then there was a brief babel as photographers rushed in for closeups.

*Execution by shooting a seated man in the back is an old Fascist custom.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,933111,00.html

SInce this is a WW11 ITALIAN execution, the rifles used were probably Carcanos similar to the one planted in the TSBD, and it should be possible to research the type of ammunition used.

I also found this video, which shows a brief clip of the same execution from a different angle. (THe commentary describes it as the execution of Mussolini, but it is in fact Caruso) The execution scene comes towards the end of the video, and perhaps you can slow it down.

http://executions.justsickxxxx.com/2008/03...y-firing-squad/

THis is a fantastic find, Duncan, and thank you again.

Hey Ray can you point out the chair back lashed to JFK's chest? Somehow I missed it. Retouched out of all the films and photos?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Ray can you point out the chair back lashed to JFK's chest? Somehow I missed it. Retouched out of all the films and photos?

Hi Craig. Thank you for pointing out the chair back.

Were it not for the chair back tied to Caruso's chest, he would have been driven forward with even GREATER force.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good find Duncan

However I think you have it backwords

You said only one rifle was loaded and the rest were not

Thats not how a firing squad works

One of the rifles has a blank, all the rest are loaded with live ammunition

The reason this is done is so all the shooters can say later if they feel bad about it is that well I could have had the rifle with the blank round and so it was not my shot that killed him

Look closly at the dirt on the hillside, after he is hit with what looks like the first shot fired a bit to early he starts to slump over and the rest of the shooters fire, hitting the hillside and it looks like maybe his back is hit, just look for the falling dirt and rocks from the hillside being hit with multiple shots

Anyways great post Duncan thank you

Edited by Dean Hagerman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Ray can you point out the chair back lashed to JFK's chest? Somehow I missed it. Retouched out of all the films and photos?

Hi Craig. Thank you for pointing out the chair back.

Were it not for the chair back tied to Caruso's chest, he would have been driven forward with even GREATER force.

Really? I'm not silly enough to make claims like that. Clearly you are. Thanks for playing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quoquote name=J. Raymond Carroll' post='174523' date='Nov 15 2009, 06:16 PM][quote name='Craig Lamson' post='174522' date='Nov 15 2009, 06:05

Really? I'm not silly enough to make claims like that. Clearly you are. Thanks for playing.

I'll let you in on a little-known secret, Craig. The chair back in front provided RESISTANCE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll let you in on a little-known secret, Craig. The chair back in front provided RESISTANCE.

Thanks so much Ray. I'm not skilled in this area, which is why I would never make the claims you have made. However you must have some seroius training in this regard. I look forward to hearing all about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll let you in on a little-known secret, Craig. The chair back in front provided RESISTANCE.

Thanks so much Ray. I'm not skilled in this area, which is why I would never make the claims you have made. However you must have some seroius training in this regard. I look forward to hearing all about it.

Gee, Craig...I thought you were only interested in the photographic evidence, and not the other stuff. So apparently you ARE interested in the physics involved, and the neuromuscular reactions after all? [Otherwise, why question J. Ray's qualifications in that area, if you really don't care?]

I thought you were all about analyzing the photographs, from the standpoint of the photographic principles behind them...and that all this other stuff didn't matter to you. Did you have a change of heart, or is it that you really didn't mean it when you posted it over on the other thread?

Edited by Mark Knight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good find Duncan

However I think you have it backwords

You said only one rifle was loaded and the rest were not

Thats not how a firing squad works

One of the rifles has a blank, all the rest are loaded with live ammunition

The reason this is done is so all the shooters can say later if they feel bad about it is that well I could have had the rifle with the blank round and so it was not my shot that killed him

Look closly at the dirt on the hillside, after he is hit with what looks like the first shot fired a bit to early he starts to slump over and the rest of the shooters fire, hitting the hillside and it looks like maybe his back is hit, just look for the falling dirt and rocks from the hillside being hit with multiple shots

Anyways great post Duncan thank you

You're absolutely right. The man was shot multiple times, several times in the head even. It appears that one shooter jumped the gun, literally, and that is the first blow we see impact, apparently on the right top part of the head. The other video purporting to be of Mussolini shows this same impact from a different angle. There we can see that the brain matter not only exploded to the right side of the head, but back of the head. This is what should be seen on the Z-film, but is not. There is no explosion from the back of JFK's head on the Z-film.

This is one of the many reasons I've concluded that the bullet striking Kennedy at frame Z-313 did not enter the back of his head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It appears that one shooter jumped the gun, literally, and that is the first blow we see impact, apparently on the right top part of the head.

I can hardly blame the guy, if Caruso was as bad as they say.

The other video ... shows .... that the brain matter not only exploded to the right side of the head, but back of the head. This is what should be seen on the Z-film, but is not.

It appears that the explosion occurs at the point of the bullet's impact, and not the point of exit. IF that is the case, then the JFK bullet impacted on the right side of his head [edit: assuming the Zapruder film is authentic].

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll let you in on a little-known secret, Craig. The chair back in front provided RESISTANCE.

Thanks so much Ray. I'm not skilled in this area, which is why I would never make the claims you have made. However you must have some seroius training in this regard. I look forward to hearing all about it.

Gee, Craig...I thought you were only interested in the photographic evidence, and not the other stuff. So apparently you ARE interested in the physics involved, and the neuromuscular reactions after all? [Otherwise, why question J. Ray's qualifications in that area, if you really don't care?]

I thought you were all about analyzing the photographs, from the standpoint of the photographic principles behind them...and that all this other stuff didn't matter to you. Did you have a change of heart, or is it that you really didn't mean it when you posted it over on the other thread?

Nope, as my post makes clear. I was just asking Ray where the chair was in the Zapruder film. Ray made a statement, and I was simply interested in his background as it related to his statement. It was a personal observation Mark, is reading beyond you?

Edited by Craig Lamson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It appears that the explosion occurs at the point of the bullet's impact, and not the point of exit. IF that is the case, then the JFK bullet impacted on the right side of his head [edit: assuming the Zapruder film is authentic].

If memory serves, and without having gone back to study the films and photos, JFK's head was turned somewhat to the left, leaving the right side of his head facing somewhat towards the front when the bullet struck.

If that is correct, then it would appear that the fatal bullet must have come from the right front.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It appears that the explosion occurs at the point of the bullet's impact, and not the point of exit. IF that is the case, then the JFK bullet impacted on the right side of his head [edit: assuming the Zapruder film is authentic].

If memory serves, and without having gone back to study the films and photos, JFK's head was turned somewhat to the left, leaving the right side of his head facing somewhat towards the front when the bullet struck.

If that is correct, then it would appear that the fatal bullet must have come from the right front.

I spent a lot of time on this with plumb line and plastic skulls, and came to conclude that Kennedy's right temple was indeed accessible from the sniper's nest at frame 313. His head was tilted to its left in the Z film, but Z was filming from 10 degrees above Kennedy. The Moorman photo shows the true angle of his tilt--about 25 degrees. This lifted the area just above Kennedy's right ear into the space normally occupied by the top of his head, and made it accessible from behind.

The outtake of Inside the Target Car showed what happens when a shot from behind hits the edge of the skull in this area--it was a close reproduction of the explosion at 313, much closer than the simulation on the show with the bullet hitting the back of the head..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
It appears that the explosion occurs at the point of the bullet's impact, and not the point of exit. IF that is the case, then the JFK bullet impacted on the right side of his head [edit: assuming the Zapruder film is authentic].

If memory serves, and without having gone back to study the films and photos, JFK's head was turned somewhat to the left, leaving the right side of his head facing somewhat towards the front when the bullet struck.

If that is correct, then it would appear that the fatal bullet must have come from the right front.

I spent a lot of time on this with plumb line and plastic skulls, and came to conclude that Kennedy's right temple was indeed accessible from the sniper's nest at frame 313. His head was tilted to its left in the Z film, but Z was filming from 10 degrees above Kennedy. The Moorman photo shows the true angle of his tilt--about 25 degrees. This lifted the area just above Kennedy's right ear into the space normally occupied by the top of his head, and made it accessible from behind.

The outtake of Inside the Target Car showed what happens when a shot from behind hits the edge of the skull in this area--it was a close reproduction of the explosion at 313, much closer than the simulation on the show with the bullet hitting the back of the head..

"I spent a lot of time on this with plumb line and plastic skulls, and came to conclude that Kennedy's right temple was indeed accessible from the sniper's nest at frame 313. His head was tilted to its left in the Z film, but Z was filming from 10 degrees above Kennedy. The Moorman photo shows the true angle of his tilt--about 25 degrees. This lifted the area just above Kennedy's right ear into the space normally occupied by the top of his head, and made it accessible from behind."

Here is a man , Pat Speer , who spends his time with this nonsense.

Edited by Peter McGuire
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...