What is this in Z frames?

[Jack White]

This object appears in a series of Z frames. What is it? It is NOT part of the pyracantha bush.

Jack

[Jack White]

I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

[Dean Hagerman]

I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

[Dean Hagerman]

Here is my other post so as not to take away from the other thread

In Zapruder the Pyracantha bush has branches and leaves going all over the place

Bronson really shows the bush neatly trimmed, Moorman also shows no unruly limbs going all crazy

No way Emmit Hudson would let the Pyracantha bush look the way it does in Zapruder on the day that the president would be driving through the plaza that he was in charge of keeping neat and trimmed

Just another observation that makes the theory of the Zappy film being fake

If the first part of the film was taken a couple days before Nov. 22 1963 (before Hudson had a chance to trim the pyracantha bush as shown in all other pictures) as I believe it was so that the people who made the alterations had a bottom half of the film to work with while putting in the fake assassination on the top half of the film.

Why else cant we see Newmans or the Blond twins? Because this part of the film was taken before Nov 22 1963!

Jack awesome work!

This makes my thoughts on how the Zapruder film was altered that much stronger

[Ron Ecker]

DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

That's a new one on me. What evidence is there of DCM "stepping out into the road"?

[Robin Unger]

This object appears in a series of Z frames. What is it? It is NOT part of the pyracantha bush.

Jack

Jack that looks to be part of an overhanging tree branch.

[Robin Unger]

Pyracantha bush.

[Paul Baker]

This object appears in a series of Z frames. What is it? It is NOT part of the pyracantha bush.

Yawn. It IS a branch from an overhanging tree.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

Do you ever think about what you're suggesting, Jack? What do you suppose the animators were trying to obscure? Since the Z-film is a cartoon, why didn't they just make the occupants of the limousine do something different altogether? Or why didn't they simply end the film a little earlier?

I have decided that Fred Flintstone was driving the limousine. In one of the frames they forgot to paint out his feet sticking out beneath the car.

[Len Colby]

Here is my other post so as not to take away from the other thread

In Zapruder the Pyracantha bush has branches and leaves going all over the place

Bronson really shows the bush neatly trimmed, Moorman also shows no unruly limbs going all crazy

Ind your previous post you also cited the Bond photo(s) "and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder" please show where any of these showed the bush with enough resolution to make such a determination.

No way Emmit Hudson would let the Pyracantha bush look the way it does in Zapruder on the day that the president would be driving through the plaza that he was in charge of keeping neat and trimmed

How did you determine this, were you personally acquainted with his work habits at the time?

If the first part of the film was taken a couple days before Nov. 22 1963 (before Hudson had a chance to trim the pyracantha bush as shown in all other pictures) as I believe it was so that the people who made the alterations had a bottom half of the film to work with while putting in the fake assassination on the top half of the film.

Why would "they" want to alter the background? Why would they use such an extraordinarily complicated method to alter the film?

Why else cant we see Newmans or the Blond twins?

Please indicate where in which frames they are 'missing'.

This makes my thoughts on how the Zapruder film was altered that much stronger

[Dean Hagerman]

DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

That's a new one on me. What evidence is there of DCM "stepping out into the road"?

That is what the DCM does in the other film

You can see him in the street in Bronson

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

[Todd W. Vaughan]

This object appears in a series of Z frames. What is it? It is NOT part of the pyracantha bush.

Yawn. It IS a branch from an overhanging tree.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

Do you ever think about what you're suggesting, Jack? What do you suppose the animators were trying to obscure? Since the Z-film is a cartoon, why didn't they just make the occupants of the limousine do something different altogether? Or why didn't they simply end the film a little earlier?

I have decided that Fred Flintstone was driving the limousine. In one of the frames they forgot to paint out his feet sticking out beneath the car.

I have decided that Fred Flintstone was driving the limousine. In one of the frames they forgot to paint out his feet sticking out beneath the car.

Hilarious!

[Dean Hagerman]

I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

[Chris Davidson]

Pyracantha bush.

Robin,

These are shot from different locations.

The relationship between pole and wall edge give it away.

Could someone at the FBI/SS/WC/ or persons trying to solve the murder, just get up on the Z pedestal and reshoot film footage.

Didn't think it was that difficult a task.

We have everything but!!! So much for recreating the scene of the crime.

chris

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd