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What is this in Z frames?


Jack White

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I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd

Todd

Not to the extant of that of the Z-film

Im not saying that in Rickerby and Stoughton you cant see a little bit of unruly branches barley sticking up from the pyracantha bush, but overall it still looks very well trimmed

In Zapruder the bush looks very untrimmed and out of control (kind of like the bushes in my front yard :lol: )

No need to keep going back and forth, thanks for your opinion Todd

I have heard great things about your work on the photographic evidence in the assassination

I look forward to seeing some of your work and any theories you have

Dean

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I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd

Todd

Not to the extant of that of the Z-film

Im not saying that in Rickerby and Stoughton you cant see a little bit of unruly branches barley sticking up from the pyracantha bush, but overall it still looks very well trimmed

In Zapruder the bush looks very untrimmed and out of control (kind of like the bushes in my front yard :lol: )

No need to keep going back and forth, thanks for your opinion Todd

I have heard great things about your work on the photographic evidence in the assassination

I look forward to seeing some of your work and any theories you have

Dean

All the talk about Zapruder film alternation is obsolete and meaningless if it doesn't take into consideration the Zapruder Film Mystery chapter in Volume IV of Doug Horne's Inside the Assassination Records Review Board.

Has anybody read it yet?

It's pretty radical and should make everyone, on both sides of the argument, re-evaluate what they know or think they know about the film.

Bill Kelly

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I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd

Todd

Not to the extant of that of the Z-film

Im not saying that in Rickerby and Stoughton you cant see a little bit of unruly branches barley sticking up from the pyracantha bush, but overall it still looks very well trimmed

In Zapruder the bush looks very untrimmed and out of control (kind of like the bushes in my front yard :lol: )

No need to keep going back and forth, thanks for your opinion Todd

I have heard great things about your work on the photographic evidence in the assassination

I look forward to seeing some of your work and any theories you have

Dean

Dean,

To quantify things, there seem to be only about 6 or 7 or so branches sticking up from the top of the bush - the rest of what we see below them seem to actually be the top branches of the fuller body of the bush. This matches what we see in Rickerby, Stoughton and Murray, photos whose resolution is sufficient enough to make such a judgment.

This Murray photo, Murray 2-4, shows the branches at the south end of the bush, and they are far from being very well trimmed.

Todd

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I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd

Todd

Not to the extant of that of the Z-film

Im not saying that in Rickerby and Stoughton you cant see a little bit of unruly branches barley sticking up from the pyracantha bush, but overall it still looks very well trimmed

In Zapruder the bush looks very untrimmed and out of control (kind of like the bushes in my front yard :lol: )

No need to keep going back and forth, thanks for your opinion Todd

I have heard great things about your work on the photographic evidence in the assassination

I look forward to seeing some of your work and any theories you have

Dean

Dean,

To quantify things, there seem to be only about 6 or 7 or so branches sticking up from the top of the bush - the rest of what we see below them seem to actually be the top branches of the fuller body of the bush. This matches what we see in Rickerby, Stoughton and Murray, photos whose resolution is sufficient enough to make such a judgment.

This Murray photo, Murray 2-4, shows the branches at the south end of the bush, and they are far from being very well trimmed.

Todd

The Murray photo did not upload, I'll try again here.

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I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd

Todd

Not to the extant of that of the Z-film

Im not saying that in Rickerby and Stoughton you cant see a little bit of unruly branches barley sticking up from the pyracantha bush, but overall it still looks very well trimmed

In Zapruder the bush looks very untrimmed and out of control (kind of like the bushes in my front yard :lol: )

No need to keep going back and forth, thanks for your opinion Todd

I have heard great things about your work on the photographic evidence in the assassination

I look forward to seeing some of your work and any theories you have

Dean

Dean,

To quantify things, there seem to be only about 6 or 7 or so branches sticking up from the top of the bush - the rest of what we see below them seem to actually be the top branches of the fuller body of the bush. This matches what we see in Rickerby, Stoughton and Murray, photos whose resolution is sufficient enough to make such a judgment.

This Murray photo, Murray 2-4, shows the branches at the south end of the bush, and they are far from being very well trimmed.

Todd

Todd

Just look at the branches sticking straight up in Zapruder

zapwhatsit.jpg

You dont see that major untrimming in Rickerby, Stoughton or Murray

Todd I have all of these pictures and have looked at all of them in detail

You can post all the Murray's, Stoughton's and Rickerby's that you want

Its not going to change my mind

Unless you find a picture that shows the pyracantha bush as it was on 11/22/63 at 12:30 to 12:35 or so that I have not studied in the last day then I stand correct on this

Dean

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I have spent about an hour looking at the Z frames showing the pyracantha bush.

I have decided that all the twigs were introduced by the animators to lessen the

task of animating the limousine and what was happening with the occupants, who

are all obscured at a critical time.

The bush was not that tall and unruly.

Jack

Jack I agree 100%

Here is a reply I just sent to Gary Mack, with some more of my thoughts on this issue

Dean,

Before you go patting yourself and everyone else on the back for this latest "discovery," you might want to find out exactly when the FBI/Secret Service test pictures were made. That might have an effect on the size and condition of the bush.

Gary Mack

Gary

I could care less about the FBI/Secret service test pictures

I am talking about the way the Pyracantha bush looks in Zapruder, like Jack says it looks untrimmed and has branches and leaves all out of wack

Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?

IMO, the bottom half of the Z-film was filmed before the assassination, then the top half was a mixture of the film taken by Zapruder and the other cameraman as seen in Betzner

The real film of the assassination (as viewed by rich Dellarosa, whom I belive by the way, why would he lie about something as important as another film?) was used with the top half of the film taken by Zapruder to create the version we see today

They had to take out the wide limo turn onto Elm, the limo stop, the brain matter going back, DCM stepping out into the road and signaling Greer to stop the limo

This Pyracantha bush post by Jack makes me feel very strong about this theory

I would love to hear your thoughts

Dean

"Why does the Pyracantha bush look perfectly trimmed with no out of control branches in Bronson, Bond, Moorman and the other pictures took at the same time as Zapruder?"

Dean,

I suggest you look at some of the photos with better resolution, such as Altgens 8, the Color Rickerby slide, Stoughton, and Murray. You'll find plenty of "out of control" branches sticking up from the top of the bush that could have most certainly appeared in Zapruder's film.

Todd

Todd

I have already checked every picture in my archive (that includes all the ones you listed)

None of the ones you listed show the out of control branches as shown in Zapruder

Altgens 8 is a picture that I find hard to swallow

Ike Altgens said himself that he did not take that picture

And while I like Richard Trask alot and own all of his books, I think he went a little to far in POTP trying to discredit Altgens and claim he was an old man who was loosing his mind and he did in fact take the picture we see as Altgens 8

Dean,

ALL of the photos I listed show branches sticking up from the top of the bush, specifically from the suth end of the top of the bush, just like we see in Zapruder.

Todd

Todd

Not to the extant of that of the Z-film

Im not saying that in Rickerby and Stoughton you cant see a little bit of unruly branches barley sticking up from the pyracantha bush, but overall it still looks very well trimmed

In Zapruder the bush looks very untrimmed and out of control (kind of like the bushes in my front yard :lol: )

No need to keep going back and forth, thanks for your opinion Todd

I have heard great things about your work on the photographic evidence in the assassination

I look forward to seeing some of your work and any theories you have

Dean

Dean,

To quantify things, there seem to be only about 6 or 7 or so branches sticking up from the top of the bush - the rest of what we see below them seem to actually be the top branches of the fuller body of the bush. This matches what we see in Rickerby, Stoughton and Murray, photos whose resolution is sufficient enough to make such a judgment.

This Murray photo, Murray 2-4, shows the branches at the south end of the bush, and they are far from being very well trimmed.

Todd

Todd

Just look at the branches sticking straight up in Zapruder

zapwhatsit.jpg

You dont see that major untrimming in Rickerby, Stoughton or Murray

Todd I have all of these pictures and have looked at all of them in detail

You can post all the Murray's, Stoughton's and Rickerby's that you want

Its not going to change my mind

Unless you find a picture that shows the pyracantha bush as it was on 11/22/63 at 12:30 to 12:35 or so that I have not studied in the last day then I stand correct on this

Dean

Dean,

In this Stoughton enlargment I've placed a red dot over 11 different untrimmed branches that would quite possibly appear in Zapruders view sticking straight up from the very top of the body of the bush. That's more than enough needed to account for what we see in the film.

Todd

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Todd

Like I said those branches are hardly untrimmed

Look at how they stick up just a tad bit above the main part of the bush

In Zapruder the branches are sticking up more then a foot

I know Zappy was closer to the bush then Stoughton, but not that much closer to cause a huge difference like we see in Zappy

Thanks for trying again, I have no problem saying im wrong if I see another picture that shows the amount and large length of untrimmed branches as Zappy shows

Dean

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Todd

Like I said those branches are hardly untrimmed

Look at how they stick up just a tad bit above the main part of the bush

In Zapruder the branches are sticking up more then a foot

I know Zappy was closer to the bush then Stoughton, but not that much closer to cause a huge difference like we see in Zappy

Thanks for trying again, I have no problem saying im wrong if I see another picture that shows the amount and large length of untrimmed branches as Zappy shows

Dean

Maybe Chris Davidson can answer this.

What i think we are seeing in Zapruder, is the camera on "FULL ZOOM" to try and capture a close up of the occupants in the limo.

One of the by products of this being, that the pycanthra bush leaves look closer to the camera than they really were, and appear to be magnified in size. ?

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Todd

Like I said those branches are hardly untrimmed

Look at how they stick up just a tad bit above the main part of the bush

In Zapruder the branches are sticking up more then a foot

I know Zappy was closer to the bush then Stoughton, but not that much closer to cause a huge difference like we see in Zappy

Thanks for trying again, I have no problem saying im wrong if I see another picture that shows the amount and large length of untrimmed branches as Zappy shows

Dean

Dean,

It would be interesting to know exactly how you determined that the branches in Zapruder are more than 12 inches tall, and/or that the branches we see in the Stoughton, Murray and Altgens photo are shorter than those in Zapruder.

Not only was Zapruder closer to the bush, he was using the zoom feature of his camera.

The branches we see in Zapruder seem completely compatable with those that we see in the photos.

Todd

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All the talk about Zapruder film alternation is obsolete and meaningless if it doesn't take into consideration the Zapruder Film Mystery chapter in Volume IV of Doug Horne's Inside the Assassination Records Review Board.

Has anybody read it yet?

It's pretty radical and should make everyone, on both sides of the argument, re-evaluate what they know or think they know about the film.

Bill Kelly

Why not summarize it for us?

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Todd

Like I said those branches are hardly untrimmed

Look at how they stick up just a tad bit above the main part of the bush

In Zapruder the branches are sticking up more then a foot

I know Zappy was closer to the bush then Stoughton, but not that much closer to cause a huge difference like we see in Zappy

Thanks for trying again, I have no problem saying im wrong if I see another picture that shows the amount and large length of untrimmed branches as Zappy shows

Dean

Lordy lordy deano BELIEVES! Instead of making meaningless statements about how you THINK something might behave (based on zero knowlege I might add), why don't you do a nice empirical study to show the principle you espouse in action?

Oh wait...far easier to just believe...sorry.

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It would be interesting to know exactly how you determined that the branches in Zapruder are more than 12 inches tall

The branches we see in Zapruder seem completely compatable with those that we see in the photos.

Todd

It would be even more interesting to know how you determined that the branches in Zappy seem COMPLETLY COMPATABLE with those that we see in the photos.

Please dont post your Stoughton red dot picture as proof because that shows nothing close to the out of control branches shown in Zappy

Dean

Edited by Dean Hagerman
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Todd

Like I said those branches are hardly untrimmed

Look at how they stick up just a tad bit above the main part of the bush

In Zapruder the branches are sticking up more then a foot

I know Zappy was closer to the bush then Stoughton, but not that much closer to cause a huge difference like we see in Zappy

Thanks for trying again, I have no problem saying im wrong if I see another picture that shows the amount and large length of untrimmed branches as Zappy shows

Dean

Maybe Chris Davidson can answer this.

What i think we are seeing in Zapruder, is the camera on "FULL ZOOM" to try and capture a close up of the occupants in the limo.

One of the by products of this being, that the pycanthra bush leaves look closer to the camera than they really were, and appear to be magnified in size. ?

Robin,

I would agree the camera was on full zoom.

Other than that, it's questionable.

Here are 2 more comparison frames for you.

And the matching movie.

The light pole in the upper right corner was never moved.

Compare these with Shaneyfelt's and the SS film frame that you posted earlier.

chris

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post-5057-1259690927.png

post-6289-1259644211.jpg

I think Robin brings up a good point about Zappys camera being on zoom

But even so look at these two images

Even with Zappy being closer to the bush then Stoughton the branches are just way to long and out of control

Hey Craig do you have any trophies or yard sticks sitting around to do another amazing study? :rolleyes:

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