Paul Brancato Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Great post Gene. I agree about the FBI, CIA, US military. I don't think any organization as such was involved. Having said that, I see guys like Lemnitzer and LeMay as unredeemable. Angleton's fascist ties are undeniable, as are the Nazis that Dulles saved and enlisted. The agencies are not evil, then or now, but there were many truly screwed up individuals in leadership positions. Harvey and Roselli are at the top of my list of suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Nall Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gene Kelly said: This story is so deeply rooted in long-standing biases. Sometimes, we seek straightforward and "linear" explanations. I don't know how to say this more profoundly, but labeling the bad guys (or the erstwhile patriots) as "CIA or military" is too simplistic. I'm convinced personally (cant prove it) that Harvey was one of them. He was many things in his career and life -- a lawyer, FBI, CIA (maybe he was a devote Catholic at one time) -- but I think he ran his own show with a lot of impunity. He was not someone to be "managed" when RFK put his thumb down on the excesses. His bosses sent him away, and purportedly exiled him in Rome. But Harvey ran with gangsters and thugs ... I'm sorry, but John Roselli was not an all-American mafiaso;. he was a criminal. The ends did not justify the means. My point is ... Harvey is not simply "CIA". He operated outside of the law, made his own rules, and drank in excess. Perhaps I could be lambasted for saying this on the Forum, but there are many honorable and hard-working people who represent CIA and FBI ... and to associate this guy with those agencies is an insult to them. Amen. It's why Tony Summers referred to these people as a "renegade element" on the cover of Conspiracy instead of just "US intelligence" as a whole. I find it pretty rare to come across someone who actually thinks the Agency, or Army Intel, or ONI from the top down "did it." And, yeah, Harvey was a real piece of work. And I do not know how members of the Outfit/Mafia got so glamorized. They were - are - slugs. Period. They wear thousand dollar suits and big diamonds, they're still thugs and slugs in nice suits - they still leave greasy trails behind them... Edited November 1, 2017 by Glenn Nall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/27/2017 at 12:15 PM, James DiEugenio said: Watch it Paul, Steve might start a Julius Caesar assassination thread Hey! I resemble that remark! Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) On 10/27/2017 at 10:30 AM, David Josephs said: I think he means "Wilderness of Mirrors" - an amazing book about Harvey and Angleton.... by David Martin So I ask myself... if HARVEY was the planner... what leverage is there against those at Bethesda to get them to cooperate... LeMay? Burkley? Galloway? I just don't get the feeling that the CIA players told the Military players what to do... but vice versa. Well Bill Simpich has apparently clarified alot for me concerning this issue at the very least as a possibility. I believe he suspects that the "Hardy" player might be FBI agents Wallace Heitman or Charles Brown and he sourced from the following: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673&relPageId=201 Also, Simpich makes another fascinating claim that, one of the main possible players (or assassination planners) connecting the Navy (specifically for the necessarily controlled autopsy later on) would be Commander Hal Feeney Dave. He would seem like a very convenient connection to the awful events at Bethesda Naval. Relevant text here: Quote Commander Hal Feeney knew how to work within the confines of authority, and then did as he pleased. Feeney is a possible assassination planner – I’m always reminded that the planners needed someone in the Navy to smooth the way for the controlled autopsy at the Bethesda Naval Hospital. (source: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Conclusion.html) So the Hardy character may not be Harvey after all. I was also wondering if we have any photos of Heitman or Charles Brown of the FBI? The documents certainly state that they were in the hospital for a possible confession from LHO but Crenshaw did notice a weapon? Edited November 12, 2017 by B. A. Copeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) Hmm...If we consider Dr. Crenshaw's testimony as valid on the entire "Oliver Hardy" description, it looks like Mr Simp. could be off a bit. According to findagrave.com, Wallace Heitman, if the photo is accurate, Heitman doesn't seem to resemble "Oliver Hardy" but perhaps its me (Heitman is the fellow at the top in the photo directly below)?: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/96292909/wallace-ren-heitman Same photograph, but highlights Heitman (courtesy of https://jfkinvestigators.wordpress.com/ & Linda Zambanini): Then we have Charles Brown (?, not sure if this is the guy but he seems to be a possible fit given the description of his life on the site): https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/67149241/charles-linson-brown I need to confirm if this is the Charles Brown Simpich mentioned to me. If these photos are accurate and relevant to the time period (I believe Heitman's is, but not sure when that photo of Brown was taken, IF it is the relevant Charles Brown as mentioned to me by Simp.) but if these 2 photos represent the appearance of these 2 guys circa 11/22/63, then I think we can eliminate them both as someone Dr. Crenshaw described as looking like "Oliver Hardy". Edited April 12, 2018 by B. A. Copeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I see your point. Harvey at least resembles Oliver Hardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said: I see your point. Harvey at least resembles Oliver Hardy. Absolutely Paul. Ultimately, I don't "want" Harvey to be "Hardy" but we're trying to narrow down potential individuals who, at the very least, could resemble "Oliver Hardy". So far, we can, for sure, rule out Heitman. Brown I'm not so sure since I'm not sure it is the Charles Brown Simpich mentioned to me. Much thanks to Bill Simpich as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Edited April 13, 2018 by Paz Marverde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 There was a front, in Italy, against JFK: William Harvey, Michele Sindona, Giulio Andreotti, Renzo Rocca. The extreme importance of this front is understandable watching this documentary: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Thank you Paz, I've definitely watched that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said: Thank you Paz, I've definitely watched that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) Bill Harvey resembles Oliver Hardy more than anyone I can ever remember seeing ... right down to the pronounced double chin and very similar mustache. If any of us looked at Bill Harvey for the first time and for more than a second and with more awareness of his presence than happenstance because of an ominous phone call pointing him out and in a super high energy crisis situation, I would think it would be easy to remember this viewing for a much longer time versus normal circumstances. Also, just listen to the personal interview of Bill Harvey's wife when she was living in retirement well after her husband's death...and listen well. Obviously she shared her husband's views of John F. Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy and Robert Kennedy. And her vitriol towards all three of them is ominous. They ( JFK & Jackie ) were scum. Bill loved Johnny Roselli. If he ( her husband Bill ) had to have someone watch his back...it would be Johnny. I am sure this take on JFK and RFK was exactly the same as Bill Harvey's. I'll guess that Bill Harvey and his wife "celebrated" JFK's assassination. Maybe a fine dinner with good wine in Rome? So perverse, so hateful. Edited April 14, 2018 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Two pear's in a pod? I guess no one will get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Boylan Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Harvey's CIA file - http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov-2017/104-10193-10076.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) On 4/25/2018 at 6:48 PM, David Boylan said: Harvey's CIA file - http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/NARA-Nov-2017/104-10193-10076.pdf How shameful David....I never thanked you for this contribution. Greatly appreciated as always. My mind has been mulling in recent days about RFK for some odd reason and I was wondering if we had any idea of Harvey (or Morales' for that matter) whereabouts on 6/5/1968? Edited September 17, 2019 by B. A. Copeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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