SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS: Truth or Obfuscation?

[Doug Weldon]

Martin:

Excellent poet and I look forward to contacting you soon. Undoubtedly, I believe you are correct. I do not know if you are aware but there is evidence that the secret service ordered 12 windshields that would fit the kennedy limo after the assassination. Their alleged reason was that they were for "target practice." It would have given them more than enough windshields to try to recreate similar windshield cracks, minus the hole.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Thank you very much Doug.

I've watched the entire Youtube Video presentation posted here by Jack White, uploaded by Rich DellaRosa the very same day as it was up.

To make it simple, i was very impressed by your presentation. It's certainly easier for me to understand english in written form but most

of what you told did i understand.

It was 1999 as far as i know when you were made that speech. Long time has passed by.

A minor glitch attracted my attention during that presentation.

You said a shot from the south side atop of the Triple underpass (close to Commerce street) was 225 yards away from the moving target.

Well, it depends were you believe that shot have to occur (maybe 217?) but the distance is closer.

Let's say a shot trough the windshield was fired at Z#217 then the distance from the triple underpass to Kennedy

was approx. 125 yards. So to say...easier.

But i don't know if this particular interpretation is meanwhile updated.

Again this is just a minor thing.

I made a while ago a 3D examination of a possible throat shot location on Duncan's forum.

There is an alternative to that Windshield through and through shot.

From behind the picket fence at the grassy knoll was at Z#200 - Z#222 a clean and unobscured trajectory to Kennedy's throat.

No Stemmon's freeway sign, no crowds in the way. Clean view.

From what direction the throat shot happend is unfortunately unkown to me. But we have two alternatives.

By the way, the so called spiral nebula in Altgens7 is exactly in the same place as in Altgens6.

That makes me wonder. But it have to be further examined. I've started already.

I have my doubts that Tony Marsh is correct here.

Anyway......one thing is for certain, we both standing of the same side of the fence!

My best to you

Martin

Martin:

You are, of course, correct about the distance. A sniper could actually start to "sight in" from a 1000 yards. In consideration of where the shot was fired from, I considered both the photographic evidence and the eyewitness testimony. I have always stated that there was a shot through the front of the windshield with the "likelihood" that it caused the entrance wound in Kennedy's throat. I am making one assumption, that the shooter was trying to hit Kennedy. David Mantik believes that chards of glass from the windshield hit Kennedy. There is evidence of such but I do not know if it was glass, glass and a bullet or fragments, or just a bullet. As noted by Fetzer in post 317 Jim Lewis proved that a shot could strike a target through the front of the windshield. He also verified what I wrote in "Murder In Dealey Plaza," that a high velocity bullet hitting the windshield would sound like a firecracker, a sound that many witnesses thought that they heard. If the shooter was trying to hit Kennedy and if the bullet was where the spiral nebulae is, then the shot would either have to come from the south side of the overpass or from someone standing in front of the vehicle on Elm Street. This was further reinforced after my presention in Minnesota and chapter in Murder in Dealey Plaza. If one believes Nick Prencipe( and I do), Nick stated that his friend, William Greer told him words to the effect "Nick, you should have been there. Shots were coming from everywhere. One came through the windshield and almost hit me." For a shot to be aimed at Kennedy and almost hit Greer, the source of the shot again had to be from the south side of the overpass or someone standing with a rifle on Elm Street. I was very impressed with your analysis and I look forward to your updated findings. There is no question that a shell game was being played with the windshield and there were attempts to confuse what was being done with the limousine. Thanks so much. Conspiracy is a crime, not a theory.

My best,

Doug Weldon

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Doug, I think you mean my posts 377, where I show one of the cars Jim has fired through and the hole it made, and 380.

Martin:

Excellent poet and I look forward to contacting you soon. Undoubtedly, I believe you are correct. I do not know if you are aware but there is evidence that the secret service ordered 12 windshields that would fit the kennedy limo after the assassination. Their alleged reason was that they were for "target practice." It would have given them more than enough windshields to try to recreate similar windshield cracks, minus the hole.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Thank you very much Doug.

I've watched the entire Youtube Video presentation posted here by Jack White, uploaded by Rich DellaRosa the very same day as it was up.

To make it simple, i was very impressed by your presentation. It's certainly easier for me to understand english in written form but most

of what you told did i understand.

It was 1999 as far as i know when you were made that speech. Long time has passed by.

A minor glitch attracted my attention during that presentation.

You said a shot from the south side atop of the Triple underpass (close to Commerce street) was 225 yards away from the moving target.

Well, it depends were you believe that shot have to occur (maybe 217?) but the distance is closer.

Let's say a shot trough the windshield was fired at Z#217 then the distance from the triple underpass to Kennedy

was approx. 125 yards. So to say...easier.

But i don't know if this particular interpretation is meanwhile updated.

Again this is just a minor thing.

I made a while ago a 3D examination of a possible throat shot location on Duncan's forum.

There is an alternative to that Windshield through and through shot.

From behind the picket fence at the grassy knoll was at Z#200 - Z#222 a clean and unobscured trajectory to Kennedy's throat.

No Stemmon's freeway sign, no crowds in the way. Clean view.

From what direction the throat shot happend is unfortunately unkown to me. But we have two alternatives.

By the way, the so called spiral nebula in Altgens7 is exactly in the same place as in Altgens6.

That makes me wonder. But it have to be further examined. I've started already.

I have my doubts that Tony Marsh is correct here.

Anyway......one thing is for certain, we both standing of the same side of the fence!

My best to you

Martin

Martin:

You are, of course, correct about the distance. A sniper could actually start to "sight in" from a 1000 yards. In consideration of where the shot was fired from, I considered both the photographic evidence and the eyewitness testimony. I have always stated that there was a shot through the front of the windshield with the "likelihood" that it caused the entrance wound in Kennedy's throat. I am making one assumption, that the shooter was trying to hit Kennedy. David Mantik believes that chards of glass from the windshield hit Kennedy. There is evidence of such but I do not know if it was glass, glass and a bullet or fragments, or just a bullet. As noted by Fetzer in post 317 Jim Lewis proved that a shot could strike a target through the front of the windshield. He also verified what I wrote in "Murder In Dealey Plaza," that a high velocity bullet hitting the windshield would sound like a firecracker, a sound that many witnesses thought that they heard. If the shooter was trying to hit Kennedy and if the bullet was where the spiral nebulae is, then the shot would either have to come from the south side of the overpass or from someone standing in front of the vehicle on Elm Street. This was further reinforced after my presention in Minnesota and chapter in Murder in Dealey Plaza. If one believes Nick Prencipe( and I do), Nick stated that his friend, William Greer told him words to the effect "Nick, you should have been there. Shots were coming from everywhere. One came through the windshield and almost hit me." For a shot to be aimed at Kennedy and almost hit Greer, the source of the shot again had to be from the south side of the overpass or someone standing with a rifle on Elm Street. I was very impressed with your analysis and I look forward to your updated findings. There is no question that a shell game was being played with the windshield and there were attempts to confuse what was being done with the limousine. Thanks so much. Conspiracy is a crime, not a theory.

My best,

Doug Weldon

[Doug Weldon]

Doug, I think you mean my posts 377, where I show one of the cars Jim has fired through and the hole it made, and 380.

[JIM;

JIM:

Yes, I was referring to post 377.

Doug

[Bernice Moore]

Here is the last colored version of Altgens6 i made.

Very little parts of Altgens6 are unknown to me.

Here the thread:

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index...pic,964.60.html

Martin

Oh Martin the finished product has shown to be so worth your time and effort, your talent is so very appreciated...

thankyou b...

[Jerry Logan]

.....

By the way, the so called spiral nebula in Altgens7 is exactly in the same place as in Altgens6.

........

My best to you

Martin

Hello Martin,

I've know you've mentioned this several times on Duncan's forum. As you may recall I tested this with a Nikon camera and 105mm lens and could not place them in the same location. Have you conducted an additional study or is this an eyeball estimate?

Best to you,

Jerry

Doug, still processing. That's a very impressive presentation.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Jerry, if you ever prove yourself an honest broker in any respect, I will give you credit for that. I am not holding my breath!

.....

By the way, the so called spiral nebula in Altgens7 is exactly in the same place as in Altgens6.

........

My best to you

Martin

Hello Martin,

I've know you've mentioned this several times on Duncan's forum. As you may recall I tested this with a Nikon camera and 105mm lens and could not place them in the same location. Have you conducted an additional study or is this an eyeball estimate?

Best to you,

Jerry

Doug, still processing. That's a very impressive presentation.

Edited January 18, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Karl Kinaski]

Mr Fetzer wrote:

Jerry, if you ever prove yourself an honest broker in any respect, I will give you credit for that. I am not holding my breath

!

Mr Logan acts like a witty used car salesman, trying to lure Martin Hinrichs into the Lone nut promise land, with the weapons of charm and courtesy...scnr...

KK

Edited January 18, 2010 by Karl Kinaski

[Martin Hinrichs]

Martin:

You are, of course, correct about the distance. A sniper could actually start to "sight in" from a 1000 yards. In consideration of where the shot was fired from, I considered both the photographic evidence and the eyewitness testimony. I have always stated that there was a shot through the front of the windshield with the "likelihood" that it caused the entrance wound in Kennedy's throat. I am making one assumption, that the shooter was trying to hit Kennedy. David Mantik believes that chards of glass from the windshield hit Kennedy. There is evidence of such but I do not know if it was glass, glass and a bullet or fragments, or just a bullet. As noted by Fetzer in post 317 Jim Lewis proved that a shot could strike a target through the front of the windshield. He also verified what I wrote in "Murder In Dealey Plaza," that a high velocity bullet hitting the windshield would sound like a firecracker, a sound that many witnesses thought that they heard. If the shooter was trying to hit Kennedy and if the bullet was where the spiral nebulae is, then the shot would either have to come from the south side of the overpass or from someone standing in front of the vehicle on Elm Street. This was further reinforced after my presention in Minnesota and chapter in Murder in Dealey Plaza. If one believes Nick Prencipe( and I do), Nick stated that his friend, William Greer told him words to the effect "Nick, you should have been there. Shots were coming from everywhere. One came through the windshield and almost hit me." For a shot to be aimed at Kennedy and almost hit Greer, the source of the shot again had to be from the south side of the overpass or someone standing with a rifle on Elm Street. I was very impressed with your analysis and I look forward to your updated findings. There is no question that a shell game was being played with the windshield and there were attempts to confuse what was being done with the limousine. Thanks so much. Conspiracy is a crime, not a theory.

My best,

Doug Weldon

Thank you for all this informations Doug. I should consider to buy the book.

And yes, Conspiracy is a crime, not a theory.

Jim and Bernice, thank you very much for your kind words.

Jerry, i used a 3D windshield template rotating it in my 3D application.

Feel free to post your study. We can examine it together.

best to you all

Martin

[John Dolva]

from ''Inspeck'' topic

At this site one can download a demo version of a program that has some very useful features.

"InSpeck EM Demo Section

In this section you will be able to download a free version of InSpeck’s

award winning 3D Editing and Merging software. With this package you

can view 3D Models with full texture, wire mesh or even solid mesh."

http://www.inspeck.com/support/download/download.asp

It's possible to view a head model according to xyz cooordinates and with that orientation shifted or 'translated' up down left right.

The model can be viewed as a solid texture or a mesh or transparent texture (and other ways) in perspective or not, at a varying zoom.

One can enter the desired coordinates and the program rotates the model accordingly.

What this means is that if one can develop corresponding cooordinates in a virtual Dealey Plaza one can then view a model of a head from anywhere in the plaza simply by filling in the appropriate field in a menu.

So all that is needed is to understand and then compute the coordinates. I have attempted to find the coordinates of Kennedys head when viewed from the film surface of Zapruders camera for Z313. What this means is that the z axis runs perpendicularly from the film plane to Kennedy's head and x and y are as usual. The problem then is that this does not immediately relate to a horizontal vertical space.

the 'BIG' problem is working out how to easily convert from one space to the other using the data in Wests survey so that the program can be used to see what is and what is not possible as far as trajectories go.

(Wests survey, or particularly his notes fom which the plat was drawn, is essential. Don's plat is apparently taped together from three pieces (an anomaly I noticed but couldnt explain exept as a transitional survey equip error, but taping three pieces tigether would do as a plausible explanation, Tom Purvis has this info (re wests survey). A good copy of Drommer is OK too)

_______

To the extent I estimate, by framing an outline of the model at 312 313, the face does indeed face the south knoll underpass area. I've posted the snapshot (using Inspeck) before but can't access at moment.*

_______

(minor point : over 600+ yards, a sniper can take potshots all day without the target knowing)

EDIT : * from memory, this shot (at headshot), seems to be able to pass over the hand hold bar. However sans the precise eurvey and no conversion yet from Inspeck data to Wests, it's not conclusive.

Edited January 18, 2010 by John Dolva

[Guest John Gillespie]

In late November 1967, Max Lerner, long a zealous stenographer of the plotters’ shifting explanations for the Dallas coup, reviewed Thompson’s SSID, and pronounced himself a convert.

The emergence of serious critics of the Warren Report – by serious Lerner meant academics, men like Epstein, Popkin, and now Thompson – had persuaded him that there was “some kind of collaborative shooting” and that “a trap had been set for the President” (1). At the end of his review, Lerner expressed the hope “That Thompson will leave Kierkegaard alone for a while, and turn to the big problem remaining in the assassination: who were the three men, where did they come from, what plot did they form, by what strange motives were they moved?” (2).

Forty-years on, we know that Lerner pleaded in vain. Not merely did Thompson add nothing to the plot so fuzzily sketched in SSID, he now devotes his time to dismissing the very evidence he adduced for a plot. There is continuity in his work, though, and we overlook it at our peril: He continues to offer a politics-free analysis, whether of Time-Life, Kennedy’s relationship with the CIA, or the Warren Commission.

(1) Max Lerner, “A New Book Shoots Big Holes in Warren Report,” L.A. Times, 26 November 1967, p.P7

(2) Ibid.

Thompson emerged from the same stable, and at much the same time, as Edward J. Epstein. An interesting assessment of Epstein’s role was offered by Marian Kester in a Third Decade essay of July 1985:

"His role seems to be that of a neutralizing agent: his books are interjected as a kind of psychological counterstroke whenever the consensus seems dangerously close to crystallizing around the anti-Castro covert operations hypothesis"(1)

Thompson’s interventions in the past decade or so leave little doubt that he, too, has been deployed as a neutralizing agent. His superficial objections and backslidings – the former faithfully echoed by his very own chorus, the latter assiduously ignored like so many inconvenient witnesses - are interjected as a propaganda counterstroke whenever the consensus seems dangerously close to crystallizing in favour of the wholesale fraudulence of the assassination’s photographic record.

Not working any more, I'm pleased to say.

(1) "Better Red than Ed: Reflections on "Who is Edward J. Epstein?", The Third Decade, Vol. 2 #5, (July 1985), p.11.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul,

Nicely done. This is one of the better postings I've seen in this category. Hope it's not too late to nominate you as a "Major Player." No wonder I took a sabbatical from these screens some months ago, what with the tedious arguments about questionable imagery that has been rendered irrelevant even by the adherents' own admissions. So why bother? Because they don't know anything else and must spend their time chasing their tails, and the perpertrators wouldn't have it any other way.

The operational aspects of this crime are of utmost importance, especially the post-deed psyops portion. Mr. T., of course, has much to lose if and when the general public latches onto the notion of Z-film fakery. There are some considerable chunks in the Mark Lane armor as well, I am told.

Now, I want to get hold of a copy of that July '85 article. Can you help?

Regards,

JG

[Guest John Gillespie]

So Ms. Beckett is offended by BALLS? I watched footBALLS all day yesterday in bowl games.

Tomorrow I will be going to a game where the players will be shooting basketBALLS into

hoops. I guess the word BALLS is now off limits, huh?

I better self-edit:

So Ms. Beckett is offended by XXXXX? I watched footXXXXX all day yesterday in bowl games.

Tomorrow I will be going to a game where the players will be shooting basketXXXXX into

hoops. I guess the word XXXXX is now off limits, huh?

Former Marines like Fetzer take notice!

Jack

-----------------------------

"XXXXX" said the Queen, "If I had two I'd be king."

JG

[Guest John Gillespie]

To believe that folks here are posting on threads to keep this one down is ridiculous.

And who defines which thread is less significant than the other?[/b][/b]

All you have to do is bump this thread, every once in a while.

-----------------------------------------------------

Hi Kathy,

Just to go over the points again:

To believe that folks here are posting on threads to keep this one down is ridiculous.

I don't necessarily believe that...Professor Fetzer made a reference and I expanded on it. But on important sites populated by stakeholders, where propaganda sometimes masquerades as something valid, these activities do occur and it is worth considering regardless of our individual positions. This will seem as patting ourselves on the back, but is there a more important Forum than this, seriously, given the issues, information presented and the cache of members over the years?

And who defines which thread is less significant than the other?

The bumper, if he or she knows how to play that game, after the bumpee has made a case that is perceived as annoying, threatening or destructive.

All you have to do is bump this thread, every once in a while.

That goes on, too. Lots of us have the bruises to prove it, even if we don't know how that black and blue got there.

I have these techniques and methods laid out on my "about me" page.

Regards,

JG

Kathy

Edited February 4, 2010 by John Gillespie

[Paul Rigby]

The operational aspects of this crime are of utmost importance, especially the post-deed psyops portion. Mr. T., of course, has much to lose if and when the general public latches onto the notion of Z-film fakery. There are some considerable chunks in the Mark Lane armor as well, I am told.

There is a wonderful scene in John Barbour's The Garrison Tapes, John, one in which Lane mocks feigned surprise. It was a subject he assuredly knew. For when he watched the Z film "debuting" on US TV in 1975, was there not a little part of him that smiled inwardly with a sense of deja vu? Two different versions, of course, but same general deception!

”A motion picture taken of the President just before, during, and after the shooting, and demonstrated on television showed that the President was looking directly ahead when the first shot, which entered his throat, was fired. A series of still pictures taken from the motion picture and published in Life magazine on Nov. 29 show show exactly the same situation.”

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/The_critics/L...l_Guardian.html

Now, I want to get hold of a copy of that July '85 article. Can you help?

I have it somewhere, but it may take a week or two, as I "reorganised" my files recently, which means I currently can't find anything. If you're in a hurry, ask Bernice.

Paul