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For the alterationists

Guest Duncan MacRae

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The entire Dorman film appears in full frame - including the sprocket hole area - in the Discovery Channel's Death in Dealey Plaza program and DVD. The additional image area shows the limo turned directly into the middle lane of Elm and most emphatically did not nearly hit the curb as some have been erroneously claiming.

The full frame Towner film has also appeared in recent documentaries and it, too, shows the limo turned directly in to the center lane of Elm. The Museum's transfer shows the lane stripes, whereas they are either hard or impossible to see in the Groden version.

The above information was provided by Gary Mack

Hi Duncan...Those mentioning the limo taking a wide curve and almost hitting the curb are the messengers ( never shoot them ) it was roy sansom truly lho's boss at the TSBD that reported such as gary mack is more than extremely well aware of...... :ice

Mr. TRULY. That is right.

And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.

Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?

Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.

If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Now, what is your best estimate of the speed as he started to go down the street here marked Parkway?

Mr. TRULY. He picked up a little speed along here, and then seemed to have fallen back into line, and I would say 10 or 12 miles an hour in this area.

Mr. BELIN..... All right.

Then what did you see happen?

mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly2.htm - Cached - Similar Sorry I cannot enable links... :ph34r:

Testimony Of Roy Sansom Truly

Testimony Of Roy Sansom Truly. Mr. BELIN. Next we will call Mr. Truly. Mr. McCLOY. Will you raise your right hand, and stand. ...


Edited by Bernice Moore
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You are right Duncan--and I already posted to that effect on another thread.

NARA has to be queried; and a full contact print made of a section of the film, and then a comparison must be made between left intersprocket area of the test film with the same area from frames from the "cakmera original" Zapruder film.

I hope your discovery leads to the production of significant and useful data, and not some story that the film is unavailable, or can't be copied in this fashion, tc etc.


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This forensic re-enactment of the assassination of President Kennedy was conducted by the Warren Commission in Dealey Plaza on May 24, 1964. The re-enactment was first filmed from the position of the Zapruder film, then from the position of the Nix film, then from the position of the Muchmore film.

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  • 4 years later...


Has anybody ever followed up on this?

And in the intervening 5 years since this forum thread was first started by Duncan MacRae on January 1st, 2010, has anyone been able to compare the 1964 test films with the assassination film taken by Abraham Zapruder on 11/22/63?

Some background info on this topic....


Edited by David Von Pein
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I wonder if Gary Mack can get a good copy of the Zapruder, Nix & Muchmore films & post them on the Sixth Floor Museum's channel on YouTube? I can see some problems already when frames are counted & compared between the original films & the FBI 1964 test films using the original cameras: the SS re-enactment car with actor stand ins doesn't appear to slow down as it does in the original Nix & Zapruder films. This would seem to indicate those original photographers spent more time filming the JFK parade car during the ambush (because it slowed down) & should have more frames as a result vs. the number of frames the FBI films contain. Besides the ghost image study of the sprocket area, the test films will allow the comparison of fixed objects (Stemmons sign, Elm Street curb line, meridian grass area, etc) & could answer some of the allegations that the film's background was enlarged. Too bad the FBI didn't place actor stand-ins where the real witnesses were located so that their sizes could be compared between films (test & originals). With the flood of JFK ambush visuals posted on YouTube I suspect the reason no visuals specialist has messed with the YouTube version of the test films because it is so poor quality. It is nice to be able to see the portion of Elm Street in the test film that was partially obscured by the bush in front of Zapruder & Sitzman in the original film.

If you've been following the video presentations of Doug Horne, he believes in what is viewable in the Zapruder film just a few frames his NPIC witness claims depicted head wound debris blowing out back & towards the meridian was excised out of the original film. That plus a false head wound was painted on. Horne's witness from NPIC doesn't remember the parade car turning onto Elm St. nor does he remember the parade car stopping. Horne believes both events were excised out of the Zapruder original. He doesn't discuss the 'phantom' DPD motorcycle officer Chaney fast trip to inform Chief Curry JFK had been shot episode that is brought up regularly in alteration discussions either.

A quality copy of these 3 test films could answer a lot of questions that have been hanging in the air for decades IMO.

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In the 1st sentence, the words 'FBI test' dropped off when I pushed the post button. I guess they are wandering around lost somewhere in cyberspace. I was thinking perhaps Gary Mack could help both the museum & researchers obtain a really good copy of the test films to be used for study. They will also be valuable visuals for recording the crime scene as it was in 1964 from the line of sight of Zapruder/Sitzman, Nix & Muchmore.

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