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We also took motion pictures with Mr. Zapruder's camera


Guest Duncan MacRae

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Test Films

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK1HeKmE3jE

Here we go, are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said? Also is the Nix and Muchmore positions

Todd you say "And let's be clear, it was only in a separate, follow-up post that you noted “I dont know if these are the films that we are looking for that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zappys camera”.

Well there is my first post, read it again real slow and tell me what you missed

You might miss it again so I will give you a hint, it ends with a question mark

You know what im going to post my question for you tro read again so you dont miss it

are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said?

Just like I said, I was asking others if these were the films we were looking for or something else that was filmed?

I await your apology

Well then, yes, I was wrong – you apparently HAD earlier asked if these were the films that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zapruders camera.

So, for the assumption on my end that you only asked this afterwards, you have my sincere apology.

But good grief Dean, that makes it even worse!

Now it’s apparent that you made your grand claim “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, made in a follow up answer to your question “Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?” when you admittedly didn’t even know if these were the films made through Zapruders camera to begin with!

To illustrate this, here are your relevant posts all in one place in chronological order:

DEAN 1 - Here we Test Films www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK1HeKmE3jE Here we go, are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said? Also is the Nix and Muchmore positions

DEAN 2 - Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn? Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming

DEAN 3 - Todd I dont know if these are the films that we are looking for that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zappys camera. They look to be the ones, but im not sure. Im going to try to look into it tonight when im off work

So thanks for pointing out my mistake, Dean, because now everyone can see for themselves that your ignorance as to whether or not these were the films that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zapruders camera sure didn’t stop you from claiming they proved the Zapruder film was altered.

:lol:

Kind of like your ignorance of you making claims without reading posts?

I never said it proves the Z-film was altered

It has already been proven

You "never said it proves the Z-film was altered"?

You've got to be kidding me, Dean.

Anyone can see that your statement “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, was made in direct reference to the Youtube video that you posted the link for.

And with your "look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn", followed by your “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, it's plainly obvious that you were claiming that this FBI film proved the Zapruder film was altered!

Now you're trying to say that you weren’t claiming that the FBI film proves the Zapruder film was altered?

Whatever, Dean, whatever.

Todd, this is what you make out of my statement

"And with your "look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn", followed by your “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, it's plainly obvious that you were claiming that this FBI film proved the Zapruder film was altered!"

But thats not what I said

The FBI films do not prove alteration, the fact that Zappy never stopped filming and the limo turn was taken out does prove alteration

Where did I say the FBI films prove alteration? Your making up things that you want me to have said, for some odd reason

You can post as many quotes as you want, its not going to make the words change Todd

Dean,

You wrote:

QUOTE ON

Todd, this is what you make out of my statement

"And with your "look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn", followed by your “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, it's plainly obvious that you were claiming that this FBI film proved the Zapruder film was altered!"

But that's not what I said

QUOTE OFF

Not what you said?

Hmmm.

Well let's see what you did say:

QUOTE ON

Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?

Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming

QUOTE OFF

Now, that sure appears to be exactly what you said, and exactly what I said that you said.

And now you deny it.

Amazing. Simply amazing.

:lol:

Todd please stop im going to break a rib from laughing so hard

Dean,

One more try.

Again, referencing your YouTube video link of the FBI reconstruction film, here is what you wrote:

QUOTE ON:

Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?

Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming

QUOTE OFF:

You referred to the FBI film with …

“…look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white…”

and then asked…

“… how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?

…and then answered…

“Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”

And to this you now claim “I never said it (the FBI film) proves the Z-film was altered”

Do you really expect me (or anyone else for that matter) to believe for one minute that you were not trying to use the FBI film to prove that the Zapruder film was altered based on your stated observation that when the camera stops in the FBI film the picture fades into white but when the camera stops in the Zapruder film the picture does not?

Todd

Like I said no matter how many times you quote me or try to put my words together you cant change them

What are you trying to do anyways Todd? Discredit me?

Why would you want to do that when we have so much fun debating Z-film issues?

If it wasnt for me you would have nobody to debate with

So whats up

Do you think im a sloppy researcher?

Do you think im dishonest?

Do you think im trying to fool everybody?

Do you think im stupid?

Why dont you answer all of those questions so I can see what you are trying to prove?

Dean,

Rest assured, I don't need to try and change your words - they're recorded here for all to see. Words have meaning, and combinations of words have even fuller meaning.

And no, I'm not trying to "prove" anything.

I simply noticed a contradiction in what you wrote and tried to point it out.

The fact remains that given what you wrote, and how you wrote it, it's quite clear that you were in fact trying to use the FBI film to prove that the Zapruder film was altered based on your stated observation that when the camera stops in the FBI film the picture fades into white but when the camera stops in the Zapruder film the picture does not.

And now you deny that.

So be it.

Now, to answer your questions:

Do I think you're dishonest?

No.

Do I think you're trying to fool everybody?

No.

Do I think you're stupid?

No.

Do I think your're a sloppy researcher?

At times, yes.

Todd

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Test Films

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK1HeKmE3jE

Here we go, are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said? Also is the Nix and Muchmore positions

Todd you say "And let's be clear, it was only in a separate, follow-up post that you noted “I dont know if these are the films that we are looking for that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zappys camera”.

Well there is my first post, read it again real slow and tell me what you missed

You might miss it again so I will give you a hint, it ends with a question mark

You know what im going to post my question for you tro read again so you dont miss it

are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said?

Just like I said, I was asking others if these were the films we were looking for or something else that was filmed?

I await your apology

Well then, yes, I was wrong – you apparently HAD earlier asked if these were the films that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zapruders camera.

So, for the assumption on my end that you only asked this afterwards, you have my sincere apology.

But good grief Dean, that makes it even worse!

Now it’s apparent that you made your grand claim “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, made in a follow up answer to your question “Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?” when you admittedly didn’t even know if these were the films made through Zapruders camera to begin with!

To illustrate this, here are your relevant posts all in one place in chronological order:

DEAN 1 - Here we Test Films www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK1HeKmE3jE Here we go, are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said? Also is the Nix and Muchmore positions

DEAN 2 - Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn? Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming

DEAN 3 - Todd I dont know if these are the films that we are looking for that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zappys camera. They look to be the ones, but im not sure. Im going to try to look into it tonight when im off work

So thanks for pointing out my mistake, Dean, because now everyone can see for themselves that your ignorance as to whether or not these were the films that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zapruders camera sure didn’t stop you from claiming they proved the Zapruder film was altered.

:lol:

Kind of like your ignorance of you making claims without reading posts?

I never said it proves the Z-film was altered

It has already been proven

You "never said it proves the Z-film was altered"?

You've got to be kidding me, Dean.

Anyone can see that your statement “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, was made in direct reference to the Youtube video that you posted the link for.

And with your "look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn", followed by your “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, it's plainly obvious that you were claiming that this FBI film proved the Zapruder film was altered!

Now you're trying to say that you weren’t claiming that the FBI film proves the Zapruder film was altered?

Whatever, Dean, whatever.

Best of luck with this Todd. I've confronted Dean more than once with exact and complete quotes of his and he has yet to actually accept his own words. Simply amazing!

This coming from the master of misqouting and twisting peoples words around to fit what Craig wants it to

I find it odd that you have stayed in the background during this time in which Doug Hornes book validates Fetzer (and gang) and Liftons theories

I thought you would be all over these posts spewing your Im the photographic king and everyone else is wrong BS

Why is that Craig? Are you starting to see the error in your ways?

Follow me Craig, I will take you to the promise land of Z-film alteration

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Dean,

Rest assured, I don't need to try and change your words - they're recorded here for all to see. Words have meaning, and combinations of words have even fuller meaning.

And no, I'm not trying to "prove" anything.

I simply noticed a contradiction in what you wrote and tried to point it out.

The fact remains that given what you wrote, and how you wrote it, it's quite clear that you were in fact trying to use the FBI film to prove that the Zapruder film was altered based on your stated observation that when the camera stops in the FBI film the picture fades into white but when the camera stops in the Zapruder film the picture does not.

And now you deny that.

So be it.

Now, to answer your questions:

Do I think you're dishonest?

No.

Do I think you're trying to fool everybody?

No.

Do I think you're stupid?

No.

Do I think your're a sloppy researcher?

At times, yes.

Todd

Well Todd like you said its right there for everyone to read, so however you want to see them then fine

But it looks like everyone is more interested in what we need to do to get these FBI films transfered to see the sprocket areas, and also to view them in better quality

I think these FBI films are VERY important to not only alteration research but anti-alteration research as well

After that happens I would be more then happy to talk with you about my thoughts on the Z-film starting and stopping

Would you agree?

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Test Films

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK1HeKmE3jE

Here we go, are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said? Also is the Nix and Muchmore positions

Todd you say "And let's be clear, it was only in a separate, follow-up post that you noted “I dont know if these are the films that we are looking for that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zappys camera”.

Well there is my first post, read it again real slow and tell me what you missed

You might miss it again so I will give you a hint, it ends with a question mark

You know what im going to post my question for you tro read again so you dont miss it

are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said?

Just like I said, I was asking others if these were the films we were looking for or something else that was filmed?

I await your apology

Well then, yes, I was wrong – you apparently HAD earlier asked if these were the films that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zapruders camera.

So, for the assumption on my end that you only asked this afterwards, you have my sincere apology.

But good grief Dean, that makes it even worse!

Now it’s apparent that you made your grand claim “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, made in a follow up answer to your question “Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?” when you admittedly didn’t even know if these were the films made through Zapruders camera to begin with!

To illustrate this, here are your relevant posts all in one place in chronological order:

DEAN 1 - Here we Test Films www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK1HeKmE3jE Here we go, are these the films with the camera starting and stoping like the testimony said? Also is the Nix and Muchmore positions

DEAN 2 - Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn? Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming

DEAN 3 - Todd I dont know if these are the films that we are looking for that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zappys camera. They look to be the ones, but im not sure. Im going to try to look into it tonight when im off work

So thanks for pointing out my mistake, Dean, because now everyone can see for themselves that your ignorance as to whether or not these were the films that Shaneyfelt said he took with Zapruders camera sure didn’t stop you from claiming they proved the Zapruder film was altered.

:lol:

Kind of like your ignorance of you making claims without reading posts?

I never said it proves the Z-film was altered

It has already been proven

You "never said it proves the Z-film was altered"?

You've got to be kidding me, Dean.

Anyone can see that your statement “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, was made in direct reference to the Youtube video that you posted the link for.

And with your "look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn", followed by your “Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming”, it's plainly obvious that you were claiming that this FBI film proved the Zapruder film was altered!

Now you're trying to say that you weren’t claiming that the FBI film proves the Zapruder film was altered?

Whatever, Dean, whatever.

Best of luck with this Todd. I've confronted Dean more than once with exact and complete quotes of his and he has yet to actually accept his own words. Simply amazing!

This coming from the master of misqouting and twisting peoples words around to fit what Craig wants it to

I find it odd that you have stayed in the background during this time in which Doug Hornes book validates Fetzer (and gang) and Liftons theories

I thought you would be all over these posts spewing your Im the photographic king and everyone else is wrong BS

Why is that Craig? Are you starting to see the error in your ways?

Follow me Craig, I will take you to the promise land of Z-film alteration

I'm posting deano, just takes a while for them to get through since the powers that be have decided to place me on double secret probation.

You post words dean, people quote them back to you verbatim and then you claim thats not what tou said or you didn't mean it that way. What ever, your words mean something and you will get called on them when you try and weasel out of them. Deal with it.

BTW, how about that guy Lifton eh? Can't even own up to his errors about the full flush left thing. What an amazing guy that you follow...it appears blindly.

Edited by Craig Lamson
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Dean,

Rest assured, I don't need to try and change your words - they're recorded here for all to see. Words have meaning, and combinations of words have even fuller meaning.

And no, I'm not trying to "prove" anything.

I simply noticed a contradiction in what you wrote and tried to point it out.

The fact remains that given what you wrote, and how you wrote it, it's quite clear that you were in fact trying to use the FBI film to prove that the Zapruder film was altered based on your stated observation that when the camera stops in the FBI film the picture fades into white but when the camera stops in the Zapruder film the picture does not.

And now you deny that.

So be it.

Now, to answer your questions:

Do I think you're dishonest?

No.

Do I think you're trying to fool everybody?

No.

Do I think you're stupid?

No.

Do I think your're a sloppy researcher?

At times, yes.

Todd

Well Todd like you said its right there for everyone to read, so however you want to see them then fine

But it looks like everyone is more interested in what we need to do to get these FBI films transfered to see the sprocket areas, and also to view them in better quality

I think these FBI films are VERY important to not only alteration research but anti-alteration research as well

After that happens I would be more then happy to talk with you about my thoughts on the Z-film starting and stopping

Would you agree?

Why? the "full flush left" argument is just plain silly. Kind of like Horne's "missing sign edges"

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Yes, that is correct, I did not read Shaneyfelt's testimony as carefully as I shoiuld have; and so no, I did not know (prior to reading this post) that Shaneyfelt had testified that Zapruder's camera was used to shoot test films during the May, 1964 reconstruction. Indeed, that is a most interesting "discovery"--and I only put the word in quotes because it is one of those things that was hiding in plain sight."

I applaud Duncan MacRae for making this discovery, and am most interested in seeing where this leads.

I think it is now most important to locate such test films. I would hope that the Sixth Floor Museum would query the National Archives to determine whether or not such films are in the JFK Records Collection. If these films can be located, that would be great. I would like to see full contact prints made of any reasonable sequence of frames from such a test film, for comparison with the frames of the film now at the Archives. Because let me assure you that I would very much like to know if the "full flush left" argument is in fact dispositive, on the quesiton of whether the film is a fabrication.

Candidly, I am very surprised that--during the life of the ARRB--it was not discovered that (according to this Shaneyfelt testimony) such test films already existed. Had that been known, I can assure you that Doug Horne would have immediately requested access to such filmed records from the FBI.

His August, 1996 memo requested that test films be shot in Zapruder's camera. Zavada said that no, it wasn't necessary, etc., and so it was not done. So that's why we have ended up with "test films" shot by Zavada in a camera bought at a garage sale.

Let's get the original FBI test films, and compare them to the Zapruder film. That's a great idea.

DSL

1/04/10; 3 PM

Los Angeles, CA

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Despite what Shaneyfelt said, I know of no researchers who have ever seen the alleged

movies made in the Z camera. Doug Horne did not know of them. David Lifton did not

know of them. I did not know of them. As far as I know, they do not exist. FBI men

testified to many things not true.

Jack

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Despite what Shaneyfelt said, I know of no researchers who have ever seen the alleged

movies made in the Z camera. Doug Horne did not know of them. David Lifton did not

know of them. I did not know of them. As far as I know, they do not exist. FBI men

testified to many things not true.

Jack

What are you talking about?

Did you miss Gary Murr's post here? HE knew of them AND examined them at the Archives.

Did you look at the film at this link?

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Despite what Shaneyfelt said, I know of no researchers who have ever seen the alleged

movies made in the Z camera. Doug Horne did not know of them. David Lifton did not

know of them. I did not know of them. As far as I know, they do not exist. FBI men

testified to many things not true.

Jack

How CIA and NPIC guys? But then again I guess you guys can find some that fit yor needs..right?

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Todd,

I just took a quick look at the U-Tube link.

All very interesting, but. . . :

You probably can anticipate my next question: Where are the sprocket holes on this film? Obviously, they don't appear, and were probably masked out in the course of making a dub, or a video transfer.

Which brings me to the next--and most important point:

Has someone asked NARA to locate the actual FBI film, made in Zapruder's camera, lay several feet of it on a light box, and make some full width contact prints?

I'll bet that may well cost a pretty penny, but that is what is needed.

That is the only way to compare, with precision, the left margin of a film shot in Zapruder's camera, in 1964 with the left margin of the film from transparencies of the individual Zapruder frames were made

DSL

1/6/10; 12:35 AM, PST

Los Angeles,

California

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Also of note look at how when the camera is turned off and on we can see the picture fade into white, how come we dont see this in the Z-film when the camera was turned off during the limo turn?

Because it was taken out and Zappy never stopped filming

Dean,

What kind of film was the FBI using?

Todd

Todd, Dean, et al:

I first saw the Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore reenactment films, shot with each of the three individuals original camera's, in March of 1999 during a research trip to NARA II. The films are actually a part of the massive FBI Bulky file 62-109060, in this instance serial # 4199. This is a very large serial subsection of the 62-109060 file and the films in question are actually in box number 102A, Folder # 4. Also included with this material are notes made on strips of paper, approximately 9" long by 3" wide, notes written by Lyndal Shaneyfelt that are affixed to the various film boxes that contain the small 8mm plastic spools of exposed film. To answer one of your questions posed to Dean, Todd; the film used by the FBI in the May 24, 1964 Zapruder camera reenactment is Kodachrome Movie Film with a small label bearing the # 9 affixed to the back of the familiar and traditional yellow, black and red Kodak company box.

The surviving Shaneyfelt constructed notes that are a part of this folder are also interesting and do help to provide a few further details. On May 23, 1964, the day prior to the actual reconstruction event, a roll of Kodak Kodachrome 8mm film was exposed in both the Nix and Muchmore cameras "on site in Dallas 5/23/64 during preliminary tests before reenactment on 5/24/64." This film was, in turn, taken by Lyndal Shaneyfelt.(62-109060-4193, Box 102A, Folder 4; film box containing reel labeled "15") On the day of the reconstruction, May 24, 1964, the Nix camera 8mm reconstruction film was "shot on site 5/24/64 by SA R. E. Triplett" with a further Shaneyfelt notation that there was "no 2nd run." On the same date the Muchmore camera 8mm reconstruction film was "shot on site by SA C. Ray Hall 5/24/64" with the same further Shaneyfelt notation as that which accompanies the surviving Nix film reconstruction notes - "no 2nd run." These two films are labeled, in turn, "16A reenactment thru Nix" and "17A reenactment thru Muchmore". The Zapruder reenactment film, item # 9, is listed as "Exposed in Zapruder camera on site in Dallas 5/24/64 by SA L. H. Shaneyfelt, with stills and moving." And unlike the Nix and Muchmore exposures, Shaneyfelt actually did "2 runs" of the assassination reenactment through the Zapruder film, one it would appear with the "zoom" feature on the Zapruder camera activated; the other without, though I could be wrong about this. I made photocopies of all of these notes, as well as photocopies of the actual film reels and their accompanying Kodak boxes, during my 1999 visit to NARA II. I also acquired, that same year, a copy of the reenactment films and it is identical to the YouTube copy link provided by Dean. (Not being a film expert, I am at a loss to explain the "cool" blue tint that appears to be self-evident on the film when one watches it; one could assume that this jhad something to do with the original development, but that would only be an assumption on my part).

FWIW, and in closing, in actuality the WC staff controlled reconstruction was originally set to take place on the previous weekend, May 17, 1964, but was delayed one week. Part of this delay was caused by an assumption on the part of WC Chief Counsel, J. Lee Rankin, that the FBI still possessed the camera of Abraham Zapruder. This was not the case, the camera by this time (May of 1964) now in the hands of the Bell and Howell people, stored in their archives room at the head office of Bell and Howell in Chicago, Illinois. The FBI did pick the camera up on May 12, 1964, used it in Dallas over the weekend of May 23, 1964, and returned it to Bell and Howell, Chicago, via SA Dennis Shanahan, on June 23, 1964. And again, FWIW, during the week of November 28, 1966 (yes, 1966) the Bell and Howell company had the camera removed from the archives storage facility and taken to their engineering lab in Lincolnwood, Illinois, where the camera was tested by their staff at which time the average film speed - fps - was found to be 18.2 fps, or within 1/10th of a second of the FBI results of 1963-1964. Lawrence Howe, then Vice President and Secretary of Bell and Howell, did admit that this testing was conducted directly "because of many news stories published from time to time espousing various new theories concerning the Dallas tragedy..."

Gary Murr

Hey Gary.... nice to see your name and postings here again..... quick question: did you see/witness the Zapruder reenactment film laced up in a projector and run? The actual film wound on a spool? Video tape dub of same? Or simply frames from all three films?

Thanks,

David Healy

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Has someone asked NARA to locate the actual FBI film, made in Zapruder's camera, lay several feet of it on a light box, and make some full width contact prints?

I'll bet that may well cost a pretty penny, but that is what is needed.

Greetings, David: If the alterationists want to prove their claims then they will just have to shell out the pretty pennies.

Those of us who have no real doubts that the Zfilm is authentic have no real motivation to fund this inquiry.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
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Todd,

I just took a quick look at the U-Tube link.

All very interesting, but. . . :

You probably can anticipate my next question: Where are the sprocket holes on this film? Obviously, they don't appear, and were probably masked out in the course of making a dub, or a video transfer.

Which brings me to the next--and most important point:

Has someone asked NARA to locate the actual FBI film, made in Zapruder's camera, lay several feet of it on a light box, and make some full width contact prints?

I'll bet that may well cost a pretty penny, but that is what is needed.

That is the only way to compare, with precision, the left margin of a film shot in Zapruder's camera, in 1964 with the left margin of the film from transparencies of the individual Zapruder frames were made

DSL

1/6/10; 12:35 AM, PST

Los Angeles,

California

This is just beyond amusing.

The mechanicals of the B&H 414 camera are such that recording in the inter sproclket area to the extent seen is Zapruder is noting special. In fact the Zapruder film inter sprocket penetration matches the mechanical limitatations the camera design sets forth.

Liftons and Horne along with the alteration horde's hands are bleeding profusely from all of their clutching at straws.

Desperate alterationists....

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Todd,

I just took a quick look at the U-Tube link.

All very interesting, but. . . :

You probably can anticipate my next question: Where are the sprocket holes on this film? Obviously, they don't appear, and were probably masked out in the course of making a dub, or a video transfer.

Which brings me to the next--and most important point:

Has someone asked NARA to locate the actual FBI film, made in Zapruder's camera, lay several feet of it on a light box, and make some full width contact prints?

I'll bet that may well cost a pretty penny, but that is what is needed.

That is the only way to compare, with precision, the left margin of a film shot in Zapruder's camera, in 1964 with the left margin of the film from transparencies of the individual Zapruder frames were made

DSL

1/6/10; 12:35 AM, PST

Los Angeles,

California

David,

I noticed the same thing - that (unfortunately) the FBI film at the Youtube link has no sprocket hole information. My guess is the same as yours, that what we are seeing at the Youtube link is a copy of the original film, or a copy of a copy, etc.

A few posts back in this thread Gary Murr posted some very detailed and informative information as to the location, etc. of what sounds like the original film at NARA - that post no doubt can and will serve as the starting point for getting access to the film.

I agree 100% that we need to have full width contact prints or full width images taken similar to those done by MPI.

As for cost, any contact prints or enlargements made off the original requiring darkroom work could indeed get expensive. However, not counting the cost of a trip to NARA, someone with some good photography skills, a decent camera, and perhaps a macro lens should be able to go into NARA, obtain access to the film, lay it out on a light box, and take as many photos as needed.

Todd

P.S. I received you latest email and I.m still looking for the item.

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To all:

The Sixth Floor Museum did NOT prevent the use of Zapruder's camera.

Doug wanted a test to be run --what any high school teacher would want: the proper film to be run through Zapruder's camera. At the time (as I recall) the Z camera was with the Museum, but that was irrelevant, because events never got that far.

Jeremy Gunn was concerned that the media would get wind of this and run a story claiming that the ARRB was "investigating" the assassination, or "questioning" the film, etc etc. In retrospect, this is ridiculous, because there was going to be a taking (of the film) and some $16 million dollars was to be spent (although the exact amount wasn't then known)--so of course there should be the appropriate tests to establish provenance, authenticity, etc.

But Gunn was squeamish, worried that what the Board would be proposing would become public, and then the critical moment occurred when Gunn--with Doug Horne standing there in his office--got Rollie Zavada on the phone, and queried Rollie as to the desirability and/or necessity of doing such a test (which, clearly, Gunn did not want to do). Zavada, who by that time either had purchased (or knew he would be purchasing) the same Bell and Howell camera (from garage sales, etc.) demurred, and said (in effect), "No, that's not necessary." Doug was crestfallen, because there, right before his eyes, a critical opportunity--to test put the Z film in evidence to a proper (and simple) --authenticity test, went down the drain. Again, let me emphasize: the Sixth Floor Museum was not the problem. The problem was that Gunn preferred not to have to do it, and then Zavada basically backed him up, by saying it wasn't necessary.

I know of these details because I was on the phone with Doug Horne several times a week, during this period--and we had agreed (the year before) to tape all our telephone conversations. So I have a dozens of cassettes, and numerous memos of the day by day goings on, with regard to the ARRB and the medical evidence, and the ARRB and the Z film. It was on July 1, 1996, that I sent Horne, Gunn, Marwell, et al the file I had received (some 26 years earlier) containing the Z contracts (both of them, the origina, 11/23/63 and then the revised 11/25/63, when the price tripled, to $150K, over the weekend) and the word I got back was that they were all delighted to receive these documents.

Had Gunn and Zavada performed such a test, then there would have been one of two outcomes: either the test films would "match" (which would certainly be consistent with--but not proof of--authenticity) or there would be a mismatch. The fact is, there were no specific suspicions about what it would or would not show at the time. It just seemed like the proper thing to do. But Gunn was afraid of the public impression it would create, Zavada acquiesced, and so it was not done.

So now we are mucking around, looking for a film that was shot in May, 1964, and hoping to get full width contact prints, when all this could have been done, routinely, back in 1996-1997, when Zavada was hired to do a job. The fact is: he didn't do the job correctly. You don't buy garage sale cameras, when the whole purpose of the test is to use THE Zapruder camera. And that seems an eminently sensible thing to do when the Government is about to spend some $16 million of the taxpayers money for a film that has image content (e.g., car stop etc ) that is so contrary to what so many witnesses saw that day.

DSL

1/6/2010; 7:45 PM PST

Los Angeles, CA

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