Dillard...

[Craig Lamson]

Here is a photo I shot from the inside of the sixth floor, using a flash. Perhaps

Lamson can explain why the exterior is not black as in some of the Studebaker photos.

Did I use the wrong "guide number?"

Did you miss the post above? Surely being the expert photographer you claim to be, this is not beyond your ken.

So what WAS the guide number of the flash in your photo Jack? Was it a thyristor flash or a flashbulb? Can you adjust the power of the flash? What was the shutter speed? What was the film speed?

Answer the questions and I'll then tell you exactly why.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Craig Lamson

[Chris Davidson]

For those still following this line of inquiry, here's another version of the boxes from the inside.

The "Sniper's Nest" Incarnations and Implications

by Allan Eaglesham

www.manuscriptservice.com/SN/actualsn.htm

Eaglesham doesn't really use the Powell/Dillard photos, but brings in another the Murray photo taken after 12:40.

He also dismisses the idea that plainsclothes deputy Luke Mooney discovered the "Sniper's Nest" at approximately 1 pm and called down out of the open window to Lt. Fritz, who was standing outside on the street corner.

Here Fritz is with Tom Alyea when the "Sniper's Nest" is discovered and they are the first there, with Mooney showing up later.

Alyea's film of the "Sniper's Nest" shoud be the most accurate of the scene before it was butchered by the DPD "crime scene" investigators.

If it wasn't tampaered with within minutes of the assassination, the "crime scene" was certainly tampered with improperly by the cops, Fritz, Steudabaker and Day in particular.

What does Alyea's film show?

BK

A frame from Alyea's movie.

chris

[Pat Speer]

Here is a photo I shot from the inside of the sixth floor, using a flash. Perhaps

Lamson can explain why the exterior is not black as in some of the Studebaker photos.

Did I use the wrong "guide number?"

Did you miss the post above? Surely being the expert photographer you claim to be, this is not beyond your ken.

So what WAS the guide number of the flash in your photo Jack? Was it a thyristor flash or a flashbulb? Can you adjust the power of the flash? What was the shutter speed? What was the film speed?

Answer the questions and I'll then tell you exactly why.

I spent several weeks studying Studebaker's photos early last year while researching a still-unfinished and unpublished chapter of my webpage. I started out convinced the Studebaker photos were taken at night. It simply made no sense to me that the view out the window would be black during daytime. I later realized that the photos used by the WC were copies of copies etc, and that in the earliest generation prints you could see the County Records building across the street. I also realized that you could see shadows on the floor from the window frame, and that the shadows corresponded to photos taken in the afternoon.

I still think there are problems with the photos, but it's no longer clear to me they were taken at night.

As far as my earlier question regarding the boxes in the window...I did a quick experiment and am pretty sure Craig is right. I placed the right edge of my son's baby chair behind a railing in our house, half the width of the chair behind the rail. As I moved to the right, at roughly 45 degrees, I was able to see the entire width of the chair to the right of the rail. This leads me to suspect that the boxes to the west of the window frame in Dillard would indeed appear to the east of the window frame in Powell, provided Powell was taken from somewhere around the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is confirmed by Studebaker B, which shows the closest boxes to be far west of the window frame, and the approximate corner of Houston and Elm out the window.

I'm still not entirely sold, however. If anyone has any objections based upon the shape of the boxes in Powell, which appear to be fairly rectangular even though they've supposedly been photographed from a severe angle, I would be most interested.

[John Dolva]

I'd like to know the dimensins of the bricks, the width of the mortar and the box dimensions (to build a 3D model of the area that can then be viewed from any location). The shadow from the pipe should enable a precise pipe location.

[Craig Lamson]

I'd like to know the dimensins of the bricks, the width of the mortar and the box dimensions (to build a 3D model of the area that can then be viewed from any location). The shadow from the pipe should enable a precise pipe location.

Write Gary Mack, I'm sure he will provided them for you.

[Craig Lamson]

I spent several weeks studying Studebaker's photos early last year while researching a still-unfinished and unpublished chapter of my webpage. I started out convinced the Studebaker photos were taken at night. It simply made no sense to me that the view out the window would be black during daytime. I later realized that the photos used by the WC were copies of copies etc, and that in the earliest generation prints you could see the County Records building across the street. I also realized that you could see shadows on the floor from the window frame, and that the shadows corresponded to photos taken in the afternoon.

I still think there are problems with the photos, but it's no longer clear to me they were taken at night.

As far as my earlier question regarding the boxes in the window...I did a quick experiment and am pretty sure Craig is right. I placed the right edge of my son's baby chair behind a railing in our house, half the width of the chair behind the rail. As I moved to the right, at roughly 45 degrees, I was able to see the entire width of the chair to the right of the rail. This leads me to suspect that the boxes to the west of the window frame in Dillard would indeed appear to the east of the window frame in Powell, provided Powell was taken from somewhere around the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is confirmed by Studebaker B, which shows the closest boxes to be far west of the window frame, and the approximate corner of Houston and Elm out the window.

I'm still not entirely sold, however. If anyone has any objections based upon the shape of the boxes in Powell, which appear to be fairly rectangular even though they've supposedly been photographed from a severe angle, I would be most interested.

Thank you Pat, for actually taking the time to investigate the properties of perspective and parallax.

It's much more convincing if you do it yourself rather than just listen to someone else.

[William Kelly]

Here is a photo I shot from the inside of the sixth floor, using a flash. Perhaps

Lamson can explain why the exterior is not black as in some of the Studebaker photos.

Did I use the wrong "guide number?"

Did you miss the post above? Surely being the expert photographer you claim to be, this is not beyond your ken.

So what WAS the guide number of the flash in your photo Jack? Was it a thyristor flash or a flashbulb? Can you adjust the power of the flash? What was the shutter speed? What was the film speed?

Answer the questions and I'll then tell you exactly why.

I spent several weeks studying Studebaker's photos early last year while researching a still-unfinished and unpublished chapter of my webpage. I started out convinced the Studebaker photos were taken at night. It simply made no sense to me that the view out the window would be black during daytime. I later realized that the photos used by the WC were copies of copies etc, and that in the earliest generation prints you could see the County Records building across the street. I also realized that you could see shadows on the floor from the window frame, and that the shadows corresponded to photos taken in the afternoon.

I still think there are problems with the photos, but it's no longer clear to me they were taken at night.

As far as my earlier question regarding the boxes in the window...I did a quick experiment and am pretty sure Craig is right. I placed the right edge of my son's baby chair behind a railing in our house, half the width of the chair behind the rail. As I moved to the right, at roughly 45 degrees, I was able to see the entire width of the chair to the right of the rail. This leads me to suspect that the boxes to the west of the window frame in Dillard would indeed appear to the east of the window frame in Powell, provided Powell was taken from somewhere around the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is confirmed by Studebaker B, which shows the closest boxes to be far west of the window frame, and the approximate corner of Houston and Elm out the window.

I'm still not entirely sold, however. If anyone has any objections based upon the shape of the boxes in Powell, which appear to be fairly rectangular even though they've supposedly been photographed from a severe angle, I would be most interested.

Well, we know from Tom Alyea's statements that whatever photos Studebaker took of the sniper's nest, they were AFTER Capt. Fritz picked up the shells and after at least two boxes were moved, so what good are they at all?

It's also hard to believe that the HSCA photo panel experts would not take parallax perspective into consideration of their analysis.

The film Alyea took of the sniper's nest before anyone touched anything - assuming Luke Mooney didn't, is the only accurate version of the area.

Someone has posted one photo from Alyea, can someone view the YouTube of his film and freeze frame some shots of the sniper's nest?

And what ever became of Alyea's film, and the excerpts that he claimed he shot but are no longer in existence?

Thanks,

BK

[Pat Speer]

Here is a photo I shot from the inside of the sixth floor, using a flash. Perhaps

Lamson can explain why the exterior is not black as in some of the Studebaker photos.

Did I use the wrong "guide number?"

Did you miss the post above? Surely being the expert photographer you claim to be, this is not beyond your ken.

So what WAS the guide number of the flash in your photo Jack? Was it a thyristor flash or a flashbulb? Can you adjust the power of the flash? What was the shutter speed? What was the film speed?

Answer the questions and I'll then tell you exactly why.

I spent several weeks studying Studebaker's photos early last year while researching a still-unfinished and unpublished chapter of my webpage. I started out convinced the Studebaker photos were taken at night. It simply made no sense to me that the view out the window would be black during daytime. I later realized that the photos used by the WC were copies of copies etc, and that in the earliest generation prints you could see the County Records building across the street. I also realized that you could see shadows on the floor from the window frame, and that the shadows corresponded to photos taken in the afternoon.

I still think there are problems with the photos, but it's no longer clear to me they were taken at night.

As far as my earlier question regarding the boxes in the window...I did a quick experiment and am pretty sure Craig is right. I placed the right edge of my son's baby chair behind a railing in our house, half the width of the chair behind the rail. As I moved to the right, at roughly 45 degrees, I was able to see the entire width of the chair to the right of the rail. This leads me to suspect that the boxes to the west of the window frame in Dillard would indeed appear to the east of the window frame in Powell, provided Powell was taken from somewhere around the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is confirmed by Studebaker B, which shows the closest boxes to be far west of the window frame, and the approximate corner of Houston and Elm out the window.

I'm still not entirely sold, however. If anyone has any objections based upon the shape of the boxes in Powell, which appear to be fairly rectangular even though they've supposedly been photographed from a severe angle, I would be most interested.

Well, we know from Tom Alyea's statements that whatever photos Studebaker took of the sniper's nest, they were AFTER Capt. Fritz picked up the shells and after at least two boxes were moved, so what good are they at all?

It's also hard to believe that the HSCA photo panel experts would not take parallax perspective into consideration of their analysis.

The film Alyea took of the sniper's nest before anyone touched anything - assuming Luke Mooney didn't, is the only accurate version of the area.

Someone has posted one photo from Alyea, can someone view the YouTube of his film and freeze frame some shots of the sniper's nest?

And what ever became of Alyea's film, and the excerpts that he claimed he shot but are no longer in existence?

Thanks,

BK

Bill, as stated, I spent a lot of time on this while putting together a still unfinished chapter for my webpage. Unfortunately, the Alyea film was cut to bits by his editors, and there is no intact version of it available. Some good chunks of it were broadcast on WFAA on the 22nd, and Groden has a pretty good version of it, but I've seen additional snippets appear in a number of documentaries that were not broadcast on the 22nd and are not seen in Groden.

There are several interesting shots that support that the nest was reconstructed. One of these shows Capt. Fritz kneeling down by where one of the shells was supposedly found. Sure enough it looks like he picks something up to show the detective at his right. This may very well be the moment Alyea remembered as Fritz showing HIM the shells. If Fritz picked this shell up, it follows that the placement of either this shell or another back onto the floor for the Studebaker photos was a re-construction.

There is also a long shot of a number of detectives standing in the far corner, by the sniper's nest. In this image, it appears as though Fritz himself is standing in the corner, within a few feet of where the "paper bag" was supposedly found. If so, then it is most interesting that he claimed to have never seen the "bag" and indicated that it must have been found after he left.

P.S. One should also note that in this last image the highest box in the row of boxes by the window appears to be on the west, when in the Dillard and Powell photos it is on the east. Even if it is on the second box from the west, as indicated by the image of the window already posted by Chris, the Powell photo shows two boxes to the west of the highest box. It follows then that the sniper's nest boxes were moved before they could be photographed by the DPD.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Pat Speer

[William Kelly]

Here is a photo I shot from the inside of the sixth floor, using a flash. Perhaps

Lamson can explain why the exterior is not black as in some of the Studebaker photos.

Did I use the wrong "guide number?"

Did you miss the post above? Surely being the expert photographer you claim to be, this is not beyond your ken.

So what WAS the guide number of the flash in your photo Jack? Was it a thyristor flash or a flashbulb? Can you adjust the power of the flash? What was the shutter speed? What was the film speed?

Answer the questions and I'll then tell you exactly why.

I spent several weeks studying Studebaker's photos early last year while researching a still-unfinished and unpublished chapter of my webpage. I started out convinced the Studebaker photos were taken at night. It simply made no sense to me that the view out the window would be black during daytime. I later realized that the photos used by the WC were copies of copies etc, and that in the earliest generation prints you could see the County Records building across the street. I also realized that you could see shadows on the floor from the window frame, and that the shadows corresponded to photos taken in the afternoon.

I still think there are problems with the photos, but it's no longer clear to me they were taken at night.

As far as my earlier question regarding the boxes in the window...I did a quick experiment and am pretty sure Craig is right. I placed the right edge of my son's baby chair behind a railing in our house, half the width of the chair behind the rail. As I moved to the right, at roughly 45 degrees, I was able to see the entire width of the chair to the right of the rail. This leads me to suspect that the boxes to the west of the window frame in Dillard would indeed appear to the east of the window frame in Powell, provided Powell was taken from somewhere around the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is confirmed by Studebaker B, which shows the closest boxes to be far west of the window frame, and the approximate corner of Houston and Elm out the window.

I'm still not entirely sold, however. If anyone has any objections based upon the shape of the boxes in Powell, which appear to be fairly rectangular even though they've supposedly been photographed from a severe angle, I would be most interested.

Well, we know from Tom Alyea's statements that whatever photos Studebaker took of the sniper's nest, they were AFTER Capt. Fritz picked up the shells and after at least two boxes were moved, so what good are they at all?

It's also hard to believe that the HSCA photo panel experts would not take parallax perspective into consideration of their analysis.

The film Alyea took of the sniper's nest before anyone touched anything - assuming Luke Mooney didn't, is the only accurate version of the area.

Someone has posted one photo from Alyea, can someone view the YouTube of his film and freeze frame some shots of the sniper's nest?

And what ever became of Alyea's film, and the excerpts that he claimed he shot but are no longer in existence?

Thanks,

BK

Hey Pat, that's good stuff. Thanks.

And for the background on what became of Alyea's film.

These frame say a lot. There's boxes against the wall to the right of the cop

by the window. Is that what we see in the other photos?

And the window is closed. What's with that?

That's quite a few detectives wandering around the Sniper's Nest.

Can you tell the good cops from the bad cops by the color of their hats?

BK

Bill, as stated, I spent a lot of time on this while putting together a still unfinished chapter for my webpage. Unfortunately, the Alyea film was cut to bits by his editors, and there is no intact version of it available. Some good chunks of it were broadcast on WFAA on the 22nd, and Groden has a pretty good version of it, but I've seen additional snippets appear in a number of documentaries that were not broadcast on the 22nd and are not seen in Groden.

There are several interesting shots that support that the nest was reconstructed. One of these shows Capt. Fritz kneeling down by where one of the shells was supposedly found. Sure enough it looks like he picks something up to show the detective at his right. This may very well be the moment Alyea remembered as Fritz showing HIM the shells. If Fritz picked this shell up, it follows that the placement of either this shell or another back onto the floor for the Studebaker photos was a re-construction.

There is also a long shot of a number of detectives standing in the far corner, by the sniper's nest. In this image, it appears as though Fritz himself is standing in the corner, within a few feet of where the "paper bag" was supposedly found. If so, then it is most interesting that he claimed to have never seen the "bag" and indicated that it must have been found after he left.

P.S. One should also note that in this last image the highest box in the row of boxes by the window appears to be on the west, when in the Dillard and Powell photos it is on the east. Even if it is on the second box from the west, as indicated by the image of the window already posted by Chris, the Powell photo shows two boxes to the west of the highest box. It follows then that the sniper's nest boxes were moved before they could be photographed by the DPD.

Edited February 10, 2010 by William Kelly

[Pat Speer]

Hey Pat, that's good stuff. Thanks.

And for the background on what became of Alyea's film.

These frame say a lot. There's boxes against the wall to the right of the cop

by the window. Is that what we see in the other photos?

And the window is closed. What's with that?

That's quite a few detectives wandering around the Sniper's Nest.

Can you tell the good cops from the bad cops by the color of their hats?

BK

The window in front of Fritz where he's kneeling is the second window. The first window, as seen in the image posted by Chris, was open, but is behind the boxes to Fritz's left in the photo where Fritz is kneeling.

[William Kelly]

Got ya, Pat. Thanks. I can see it now.

What I don't see yet is how what we see on the inside lines up in the Powell/Dillard photos.

Thanks for the Alyea frame Chris. That's a good one.

As for John Dolva's question re: Box size.

Plus, weighed 50 pounds each, according to B.

Here's some links to Mary Ferrell's Exhibits so you won't have to bother Gary.

Cartons CE 1306-09

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=171312

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=171312

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=171313

CE1309

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=171313649

Studebaker's bogus photos of reconstruced Sniper's Nest.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=143073

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=143070

+ 643 Studebaker Ex A - Photograph of three empty hulls taken on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.

+ 644 Studebaker Ex B - Photograph of two empty hulls taken on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.

+ 645 Studebaker Ex C - Photograph of a rifle where it was discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository ...

+ 646 Studebaker Ex D - Photographs of boxes stacked by a window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.

+ 647 Studebaker Ex F - Diagram showing the position of a wrapping paper bag and of Lee Harvey Oswald's palmprint on a box on ...

+ 648 Studebaker Ex H - Photograph of a two-wheeler, a Dr. Pepper bottle, and a paper sack on the third aisle from the east ...

+ 649 Studebaker Ex J - Photograph of boxes in and near southeast window of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository ...

Edited February 10, 2010 by William Kelly

[John Dolva]

Thank you Wiliam. I gave uo on getting the info directly a couple of years ago. What I need now is the sizes of the bricks and mortar width. The reason being that if it's like over there as it is here brick sizes vary particularly from the old ways of making them compared to the more rigorous standards/quality control now, so just the size measured of three bricks (width height length) and three mortar widths as it was in the corner should suffice for an average with a known error margin. From this a large range of measurements can be made. My theorised efforts indicate a very cramped area with the pipes problematic. Tom and I diverged on this and I think Allan has a couple of things wrong. If I were a rich man I'd catch a flight over there and measure it myself, alas I'm not, and I'm here, so totally dependent on people who are in a position to supply these measurements directly.

[Chris Davidson]

Here is a photo I shot from the inside of the sixth floor, using a flash. Perhaps

Lamson can explain why the exterior is not black as in some of the Studebaker photos.

Did I use the wrong "guide number?"

Did you miss the post above? Surely being the expert photographer you claim to be, this is not beyond your ken.

So what WAS the guide number of the flash in your photo Jack? Was it a thyristor flash or a flashbulb? Can you adjust the power of the flash? What was the shutter speed? What was the film speed?

Answer the questions and I'll then tell you exactly why.

I spent several weeks studying Studebaker's photos early last year while researching a still-unfinished and unpublished chapter of my webpage. I started out convinced the Studebaker photos were taken at night. It simply made no sense to me that the view out the window would be black during daytime. I later realized that the photos used by the WC were copies of copies etc, and that in the earliest generation prints you could see the County Records building across the street. I also realized that you could see shadows on the floor from the window frame, and that the shadows corresponded to photos taken in the afternoon.

I still think there are problems with the photos, but it's no longer clear to me they were taken at night.

As far as my earlier question regarding the boxes in the window...I did a quick experiment and am pretty sure Craig is right. I placed the right edge of my son's baby chair behind a railing in our house, half the width of the chair behind the rail. As I moved to the right, at roughly 45 degrees, I was able to see the entire width of the chair to the right of the rail. This leads me to suspect that the boxes to the west of the window frame in Dillard would indeed appear to the east of the window frame in Powell, provided Powell was taken from somewhere around the southeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is confirmed by Studebaker B, which shows the closest boxes to be far west of the window frame, and the approximate corner of Houston and Elm out the window.

I'm still not entirely sold, however. If anyone has any objections based upon the shape of the boxes in Powell, which appear to be fairly rectangular even though they've supposedly been photographed from a severe angle, I would be most interested.

Well, we know from Tom Alyea's statements that whatever photos Studebaker took of the sniper's nest, they were AFTER Capt. Fritz picked up the shells and after at least two boxes were moved, so what good are they at all?

It's also hard to believe that the HSCA photo panel experts would not take parallax perspective into consideration of their analysis.

The film Alyea took of the sniper's nest before anyone touched anything - assuming Luke Mooney didn't, is the only accurate version of the area.

Someone has posted one photo from Alyea, can someone view the YouTube of his film and freeze frame some shots of the sniper's nest?

And what ever became of Alyea's film, and the excerpts that he claimed he shot but are no longer in existence?

Thanks,

BK

Bill, as stated, I spent a lot of time on this while putting together a still unfinished chapter for my webpage. Unfortunately, the Alyea film was cut to bits by his editors, and there is no intact version of it available. Some good chunks of it were broadcast on WFAA on the 22nd, and Groden has a pretty good version of it, but I've seen additional snippets appear in a number of documentaries that were not broadcast on the 22nd and are not seen in Groden.

There are several interesting shots that support that the nest was reconstructed. One of these shows Capt. Fritz kneeling down by where one of the shells was supposedly found. Sure enough it looks like he picks something up to show the detective at his right. This may very well be the moment Alyea remembered as Fritz showing HIM the shells. If Fritz picked this shell up, it follows that the placement of either this shell or another back onto the floor for the Studebaker photos was a re-construction.

There is also a long shot of a number of detectives standing in the far corner, by the sniper's nest. In this image, it appears as though Fritz himself is standing in the corner, within a few feet of where the "paper bag" was supposedly found. If so, then it is most interesting that he claimed to have never seen the "bag" and indicated that it must have been found after he left.

P.S. One should also note that in this last image the highest box in the row of boxes by the window appears to be on the west, when in the Dillard and Powell photos it is on the east. Even if it is on the second box from the west, as indicated by the image of the window already posted by Chris, the Powell photo shows two boxes to the west of the highest box. It follows then that the sniper's nest boxes were moved before they could be photographed by the DPD.

From Alyea

"Paper Bag" possibly?

chris

[Pat Speer]

From Alyea

"Paper Bag" possibly?

chris

Chris, that's the lunch sack with the chicken bones in it found over by the third set of windows. While the press originally reported it to be the lunch sack of the sniper, it was later determined to be Bonnie Ray Williams' lunch sack. As I recall, however, the DPD crime lab failed to make a record of any fingerprints found on it. They then threw it away.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Pat Speer

[John Dolva]

The flooring is perpendicular to the brick wall. In the snipers nest it's oblique. Was it uniformely oblique across the sixth floor? If not, are there photos that may determine the floor this is on?