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Oswald returns from the Soviet Union


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Jim, part of your anlysis (which is in many ways intriguing, and I certainly don't want to see an end to it) seem to need to have Walker in a different light than other account would have it.

Apparently not only he, but also his troops offered resignation re Little Rock but it was refused so they had to go ahead, not only that, many accounts describe a restraint, and specific orders to not inflame the situation, and stay as much as possible in the background, which was largely made difficult by whites. Some of the accounts by the nine students, of whom only a few actually stayed on are harrowing.. Later, At Ole' Miss, when he was arrested as an insurrectionist, where he guided the armed struggle against Kennedy's trooops, unfettered by Army Discipline, which was why he resigned in the first place, he showed his true colors.

Similarly, the accounts by soldiers under his command in Germany tells of a heartless, paranoid person who spied with surveillance on his troops. His driver died strangely and his response is even odder. Apart from that, his two arrests as a sexual pervert, plus his obsession with MAD magazine, at which even the FBI declared him and his Lawyer Gen Watts nuts, bespeaks a deeply conflicted person. Certainly not someone to be left in charge of the front line.

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John

It seems that Walker's problems begin when Oswald applys for permission to return to the US.

The Little Rock resignation seems to be an urban myth created after the fact. The fact is that Walker had boots on the ground within hours of being ordered into Little Rock.

I have interviewed dozens of men who served under Walker and have never heard anything negitive about him as a commander, as a soldier or as a person. Many did say that they found it hard to believe that he became what he became in the years following his resignation from the military.

As far as the front line.....he was incharge in the First Straits of Taiwan crisis and according to his own writings (which I have been unable to confirm or deny) was to be sent to Vietnam as the head of the Military Assistance Command following his term in Augsburg. Once again I have not been able to confirm that but have reason to believe that it may have been true.

Interesting how Walkers life changed when Oswald began his journey home.

Hey, how about the hours following the assassination of JFK....that is interesting as well....after Oswald's picture is all over the news.

Jim Root

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Jim,

So Walker helped Oswald get into the Soviet Union, and then, when Oswald was returning, Walker had to be burned. Maybe I'm being dense, but I'm having trouble following the reasoning. Was it to portray Walker's help in Oswald's defection (if that help somehow came to light) as the act of a renegade nut or traitor?

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John

It seems that Walker's problems begin when Oswald applys for permission to return to the US.

The Little Rock resignation seems to be an urban myth created after the fact. The fact is that Walker had boots on the ground within hours of being ordered into Little Rock.

I have interviewed dozens of men who served under Walker and have never heard anything negitive about him as a commander, as a soldier or as a person. Many did say that they found it hard to believe that he became what he became in the years following his resignation from the military.

As far as the front line.....he was incharge in the First Straits of Taiwan crisis and according to his own writings (which I have been unable to confirm or deny) was to be sent to Vietnam as the head of the Military Assistance Command following his term in Augsburg. Once again I have not been able to confirm that but have reason to believe that it may have been true.

Interesting how Walkers life changed when Oswald began his journey home.

Hey, how about the hours following the assassination of JFK....that is interesting as well....after Oswald's picture is all over the news.

Jim Root

Well, Jim, I think our perspectives are different. I don't deny Walker was and tried to maintain the example of an obedient Soldier.

I think his disintegration started earlier. There are a number of recollection sites where personell describe Walker as somewhat overly enthusiastic.

He does state that Little Rock went against the grain for him, but after Ole Miss as far as I can determine, so it may be a myth with a purpose, but then again it may not. The integration was not successful, and the experience of the nine far from pleasant. Merdiths was successful under Kennedy but under conditions so divisive that even Kennedy sought to diminish its impact, but again far from pleasant for Meredith, but the more rabid Alabama (KKK stronghold) confrontation, as a result, was smoother.

(do you mean Ausberg? Could you elaborate on that. Also what was the timing of his Vietnam tour. I ask in relation to the pre op phoenix program.)

Anyway, he flew the flag upside down, was not killed by Oswald and had his ticket stubs signed on the plane on his trip to Shreveport where he was met by Ned Touchstone and co...then the German article re Oswald shooting Walker.

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Ron

Simple answer, yes.

I do not believe Walker had any idea who Oswald was or what his mission/operation was. I assume Walker was given a package or information to deliver to Oswald which contained informtation on how to get into the Soviet Union via the Soviet Embassy in Helsinki after having purchased his first class intourist vouchers. This information, as we have since learned, was sent to the US State Dept. one day prior to Oswalds arrival in Finland.

This contact may have been as simple as a chance meeting at the airport or perhaps being on the same flight from one destination to the next (my original thought based upon the missing passenger lists and the fact that Walker and Oswald were traveling in Europe at the same time period). With the help of Antti Hynoonan we have been able to prove that this was possible and fits in with the Delgado story that Oswald had told him he was going to Germany.....where Walker actually traveled to. It also provides an excellent reason why passenger lists would beome unavailable to the Warren Commission and the general public.

While there is speculation which brings the pieces of this puzzle together it is a picture painted from evidence discovered by following a hypothesis.

IF true then a returning Oswald could perhaps identify Walker as the man who provided information to him as he defected. IF Oswald was the patsy that he said he was then he would, as he said, have every reason to come to believe that Walker was the head of some very bad organization. Walker on the other hand would have reas to, as he said, believe that Oswald was actually working for both Soviet and American Intelligence. Both stories and comments fit into this picture.

Walker would be just as much of a patsy in this as Oswald.....just as Oswald may have believed he was working for some Soialist group or organization, Walker would have believed that Oswald was working for US interests. Neither may have been clear on exactly what they were doing but I do know that Ted Walker would have followed any order that he was given.....and I do believe that he may have been misled along the way.....right up until he saw Oswald's face on TV after the assassination. And in the case of Oswald, he ended up at the only Soviet embassy in the world that could issue him a visa within 24 hours and he purchased his intourist vouchers, just as the Hickerson note said to do, prior to his application for that visa.......who provided him with that information? Or did Oswald just get lucky in 1959? And was it just luck that put the motorcade past where Oswald worked in 1963?

My bet is that there were only a few happier people in both the US and Soviet Union than Edwin Walker was in the moments following the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jim Root

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Hi John

I will agree that Walker could, throughout his career, be described as "overly enthusiastic." Most people would tend to believe that would be a positive characteristic depending on how one wishes to few what one is enthusiastic about.

Augsburg (I could have the spelling incorrect) was where the 24th Infantry Div. was stationed in Germany.

Walker never did a tour in Vietnam. Walker was involved in an early Army training program that, in I believe it was, 1954/55 inserted the first small group of specially trained US soldiers into Vietnam. These soldiers entered Vietnam in civilian clothes by the way, via Hawaii. There were two groups of these specially trained men, one group went to Europe and one to Vietnam. They were the forerunners of the Green Berets.

Although Walker was not the man that was in charge of the day to day training of these men he was the commander who oversaw and was involved in developing the training of this special force. Not surprising, considering both Walker's service in and later command of the First Special Services Force during World War II, which by the way, is considered to be the forerunner of the Green Berets. This special training occured under the Army's Chief of Staff, General Maxwell Taylor and was long a favorite project of Taylor's.

It is not surprising that Walker, Taylors trusted collegue, would be involved in this project. During the Korean War Walker had also been involved in the training of special Ranger units (that Taylor endorsed but believed were poorly used during the Korean conflict). Walker had also been in charge of the Greek desk at the Pentagon during Americans successful involvement during the Greek Civil War and had been a part of the planning of Cold War strategies in the all important Army War College projects following World War II. Walker was an expert in counter insurgency warfare and had been involved in the development and implementation of tactics and training since WWII. You will find many references of men who would later be CIA operatives who were first trained and then recruited from programs that Walker was involved in (including Gerry P. Hemming).

Walker was very well connected and was never considered a "nut case" by the men that were developing the "brush fire war" strategies of the 1950's. Walker himself suggests that he was to be given the Vietnam job. I find it interesting that the job ended up in the hands of Westmorland that had actally served under Walker.

I do find the flag upside down story to be both true and interesting. Just as I find the story of how Walker's retirement was returned to him later in life. The retirement story has led me to speculate that when Walker was burned, and his papers prove that he was sure that it was US Intelligence that was having him burned and that he did not understand why,.....here is where the speculation begins.....Walker may have been assigned to spy on the "Right" in America.

Couple of things here:

1) It was illegal for the military to spy on US citizens. This restriction would be removed legally if Walker had resigned from the military. This is similar to what was done with U-2 pilots and other military personal who would resign from the military while they were working for the CIA. Example: Francis Gary Powers was officially a civilian contracter working for NASA when he was downed in a U-2 spy plane over Russia......the official cover story was that it was a civilian NASA weather plane that had strayed off course.

2) A General is always in the service of the US Government and can be recalled at any moment that the nation, or President, deems their service to be required. I speculate that Walker would have served under his friend, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Maxwell Taylor, in any capacity he was called upon to serve.......Walker always did exactly what Kennedy's Chairman asked him to do and he always did it in an "overly enthusiastic" manner.

The German magazine article.........I believe Walker knew, immediatly upon seeing Oswald's face, that the assassination of JFK was not the individual act of one lone man. I believe that Walker knew that the assassination of JFK was most likely the act of highly placed members of US Intelligence that also had the ability to connect him to that act (the letter from McCloy to Walker in June of 1963 would serve that purpose very well I think). I believe that Walker was uniquely placed to understand this! His action in the hours following the assassination, I believe, fit as a key piece to this puzzle that I continue to paint.

Jim Root

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Lot's of interesting stuff there, Jim. As I've repeatedly stated, your research is very intriguing, and it is helpful in many ways.

Also, one can view the same events in different ways.

While Walker was obedient as far as orders go, tho I see his presuming to speak for the US of A in Ausberg and the following Executive Order that ckearly stated Kennedys thinking on such matters, and the mooted resignation attempt in Little Rock, as well as his reserved position there as conflicting, he resigned in order to be free to be disobedient, and went on to lead the armed insurrection against the US of A, quite apart from his loose morals re sexual perversion.

The Vietnam matter warrants a close look at some time (as well as his duties in Norway). Thes are the precursors to the horrific Op Phoenix which has a precursor in an Op ''I can't remember the name of'' under way in Vietnan during Kennedys administration.

_____

On a side issue, rather than starting yet another topic in the avalanche of topics at the moment: As he had his ticket stubs signed on his way to Shreveport to meet with his Confederates, I wonder if any one has done any research into when he booked this flight, and what were the movements of his Confederates in the days leading up to the assassination as they converged on Shreveport.

edit:edit

Edited by John Dolva
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I have interviewed dozens of men who served under Walker and have never heard anything negitive about him as a commander, as a soldier or as a person.

Jim,

Have you contacted those who served under him who wrote negative comments on the 24th's web page?

With the help of Antti Hynoonan we have been able to prove that this was possible and fits in with the Delgado story that Oswald had told him he was going to Germany.....where Walker actually traveled to.

Delgado never testified that Oswald told him that. His testimony was that he had no idea how he came to that belief.

Mr. LIEBELER. You never met Oswald at any time while you were in Germany?

Mr. DELGADO. No. I wanted to---I knew that he was over there going to school, and I can't for the life of me recall where I got the scoop that I thought he was going to some school in Berlin, and I was thinking of going over there, to see if I could find him, but I never did follow through. There was too much redtape.

What this indicates to me is that Delgado's memory was confused. Oswald's Albert Schweitzer application reveals he wanted to learn German. We also know that Oswald wrote to the college from Moscow giving a date he expected to arrive. In essence, it appears what Oswald actually told Delgado was that he was going to the SU thence onto a Swiss college where, among other things, he would study German.

I believe that Walker was uniquely placed to understand this! His action in the hours following the assassination, I believe, fit as a key piece to this puzzle that I continue to paint.

Here is what Walker stated in the Texas Monthly of February, 1991.

"Messages were criss-crossing this town that something was going to happen and the right wing was going to be blamed for it... I made sure I was out of Dallas that day... I was on a plane flying from New Orleans to Shreveport when the pilot announced that Kennedy had been killed. I've got the plane number and everyone who was on it...the Kennedy assassination was an overlapping conspiracy incidental to the larger conspiracy to assassinate General Walker... Kennedy comprimised the entire country when he decided to seek a second term... if Kennedy had the good sense to retire, he'd be alive today..."

I think it speaks for itself...

edited for typos

Edited by Greg Parker
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Greg

Let me begin by saying how much I appreciate both your questions and your research! You provide me with an opportunity to both clarify my own thoughts and a chance to expand upon those thoughts.

"Have you contacted those who served under him who wrote negative comments on the 24th's web page?"

I have contacted many people from both the 24th and from many other units and have even exchanged an email or two with the person who runs that site. In speaking with the men and in some cases woman family members of men who served with Walker I find that people had an opinion of him when they served with him which was, at times, later tweaked and influenced by events that transpired after they served with him. There is an old cliche in politics, "If you throw enough mud against a wall some of it sticks." And Walker, over the years, has had a great deal of mud thrown at his reputation and career. But in my interviews, those that served closely with Walker, especially those who served with him in combat, without exception reguarded him as a man that they wanted in a foxhole with them if they were in combat.

Having said that, it is true that Walker's character was not portrayed in the movie "The Devils Brigade" because he was viewed as to controversial. Walker was banned from traveling in Canada based upon events that occured after 1961. When the colors of the First Special Services Force were exchanged for the colors of the Green Berets, Walker was not allowed to be at the ceremony although, as I understand it, every other surviving American of the FSSF was invited and many did attend. Even Gerry Hemming, a frequent visitor to the Walker residence, assured me that after the morals charges against Walker many men who had served with him were less enthusiastic about Walker then they had been in prior years.

So in my research I have found two views of Walker. First we have the Walker that men served with and second, the Walker that became highly publicized after his resignation. Some mud did stick but not nearly as much as you might think.

"Delgado never testified that Oswald told him that. His testimony was that he had no idea how he came to that belief."

Delgado says very clearly in response to being asked about Oswald being in Germany, "I knew that he was over there going to school..."

What Delgado was unlear on was, "I can't for the life of me recall where I got the scoop that I thought he was going to some school in Berlin..."

Germany is a country, Berlin is a specific place within that country. Delgado was unclear on if he was in Berlin but "knew" that he was "there"(in Germany).

I personally believe that Delgado would have remembered if Oswald said that he was going to the Soviet Union and Delgado would have been much less likely to think that Oswald was in Berlin if Oswald had said Russia rather than Germany.

"Here is what Walker stated in the Texas Monthly of February, 1991."

Greg, let me start by saying thank you for providing the reference to this article, I had nver seen it previously. My research allows me to come to different conclusions than you but I must admit some of the Walker quotes are more than helpful to my work.

For starters though, the article was written by Gary Cartwright and titled "The Old Soldier." Its byline was a factually incorrect statement that leads me to believe that the author was not very astute in his knowledge of Walker or his background,

"In 1957 General Walker warned his troops of rampant communism and lost his job...." Those of us that know much of anything about Walker know that the first line of this article is historically incorrect which could call into question the inferences the author makes based upon his lack of clear knowledge about Walkers career. That being said the article is not that bad, in my opinion.

From your quoted comments atributed to Edwin Walker:

"Messages were criss-crossing this town that something was going to happen and the right wing was going to be blamed for it... "

On October 24th 1963, a month before Kennedys visit to Dallas, the US Ambasssador to the United Nations Adlai Stevenson had been in town. While on his visit Stevenson had been hit in the head by a woman holding an anti-United Nations sign and a man spat on Stevenson and a police officier. The right wing was blamed for the Stevenson incident and yes there was a lot of information "criss-crossing this town" that the Kennedy visit presented an opportunity for similar events.

".... I (Walker) made sure I was out of Dallas that day..." A logical thing to do in my opinion for a man that was labeled as being very anti-Kennedy.

"...I (Walker) was on a plane flying from New Orleans to Shreveport when the pilot announced that Kennedy had been killed. I've got the plane number and everyone who was on it..." An event that I have seen attributed to Walker many times throughout the years and is in this article repeated once again.

"...the Kennedy assassination was an overlapping conspiracy incidental to the larger conspiracy to assassinate General Walker..."

This is not a Walker quote but you have placed it in the middle of several Walker quotes. It was the opinion of the author and should be addressed as such. Within my research I would suggest that the author might have given his impression based upon a view of Walker as a narcessist who would place himself above the assassination of Kennedy. Perhaps this is the bias of the author based upon an unclear understanding of the historical Walker (as his byline suggests and unclear understanding of the true history of Walker's career) With this in mind the statement of the author is perhaps not far off from what Walker was actually saying. I might suggest that the author could have indicated that Walkers thought presented in the phamplet discribed suggest that the Walker assassination attempt was an overlapping conspiracy incidental to the larger conspiracy to assassinat President Kennedy. I think that this is something that most conspiracy theorist might agree upon.....so lets look further:

And the next quote you attribute to Walker from the article, in my opinion, supports my research and Walkers personal knowledge of the events surrounding the assassination:

"...Kennedy comprimised the entire country when he decided to seek a second term..."

In order to shore up his poll numbers Kennedy revived the Limited Test Ban Treaty (June 1963). People such as John J. McCloy, who I suggest may have been involved in the assassination, viewed this as a political move Kennedy was willing to use to bolster his re-election campaign....just as he was willing to slow down on Civil Rights legislation. McCloy resigned as Kennedy's Chief Arms negotiator and wrote his letter to Edwin Walker which I have written much about. Just as the U-2 incident stoped the Paris Summit and a Limited Test Ban Treaty from being signed in 1960 (which McCloy did not want to see signed), the Kennedy assassination brought McCloy back to the table as Chief Arms negotiator once again and allowed McCloy to achieve his long sought after comprehensive nuclear non-proliferation treaties.

I ask again, was Oswald used to accomplish McCloys goals in two different events? This suggestion needs to be considered! I believe that Walker's comments in this interview actually support this position!

"...if Kennedy had the good sense to retire, he'd be alive today..."

Walker, in my opinion, knew that it was not good to cross paths with John J. McCloy! And McCloy, with his June 1963 letter to Walker had let Walker know that he too would be implecated in the assassination if he talked.

And yes, I agree, the article does speak for itself.......

Jim Root

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''Walker resigned from the Army on November 2, 1961. Said Walker: "It will be my purpose now, as a civilian, to attempt to do what I have found it no longer possible to do in uniform."[3] - Wiki

''1947 Walker helped the monarchists defeat Communist insurgents during the Greek Civil War.(ed. this I think is important, but later) Walker also saw action in the Korean War. On his return to the United States he became commander of the Arkansas Military District in Little Rock.

On 3rd September 1957, the governor of Arkansas, Orval Faubus, used the National Guard to stop black children from attending the local high school in Little Rock. Woodrow Mann, the reforming mayor of the city, disagreed with this decision and on 4th September telegraphed President Dwight Eisenhower and asked him to send federal troops to Little Rock.

On 24th September, 1957, President Dwight Eisenhower, went on television and told the American people: "At a time when we face grave situations abroad because of the hatred that communism bears towards a system of government based on human rights, it would be difficult to exaggerate the harm that is being done to the prestige and influence and indeed to the safety of our nation and the world. Our enemies are gloating over this incident and using it everywhere to misrepresent our whole nation. We are portrayed as a violator of those standards which the peoples of the world united to proclaim in the Charter of the United Nations."

After trying for eighteen days to persuade Orval Faubus to obey the ruling of the Supreme Court, Eisenhower decided to order paratroopers of the 101st Airborne Division, to protect black children going to Little Rock Central High School. The white population of Little Rock were furious that they were being forced to integrate their school and Faubus described the federal troops as an army of occupation.

Elizabeth Eckford and the other eight African American students that entered the school (Carlotta Walls, Jefferson Thomas, Thelma Mothershed, Melba Pattillo, Ernest Green, Terrance Roberts, Gloria Ray and Minnijean Brown) suffered physical violence and constant racial abuse. Parents of four of the children lost their jobs because they had insisted in sending them to a white school. Woodrow Mann and his family received death threats and Klu Klux Klan crosses were burnt on his front lawn.

Walker, a supporter of the John Birch Society, was totally opposed to school desegragation. However, as commander of the Arkansas Military District he was forced to implement the orders of Dwight Eisenhower.'' spartacus - ''The Major General Edwin A. Walker Society was started in 1999 as a "closed, anti-Communist association of active duty and retired officers and noncommissioned officers who have taken upon themselves the mission of combating the communistic forces of Cultural Marxism, multiculturalism, the United Nations and Boshevist influences in the military".''

''Walker organized protests in September 1962 against the use of federal troops to enforce the enrollment of African-American James Meredith at the racially segregated University of Mississippi. His public statement on September 29:

This is Edwin A. Walker. I am in Mississippi beside Gov. Ross Barnett. I call for a national protest against the conspiracy from within. Rally to the cause of freedom in righteous indignation, violent vocal protest, and bitter silence under the flag of Mississippi at the use of Federal troops. This today is a disgrace to the nation in 'dire peril,' a disgrace beyond the capacity of anyone except its enemies. This is the conspiracy of the crucifixion by anti-Christ conspirators of the Supreme Court in their denial of prayer and their betrayal of a nation.[5]

After a violent, 15-hour riot broke out on the campus, on September 30, in which two people were killed and six federal marshals were shot, Walker was arrested on four federal charges, including insurrection against the United States. Walker posted bond and returned home to Dallas, where he was greeted by a crowd of 200 supporters.'' - Wiki

The story of the West German article is relevant.

It grew out of statements by personell.

1957 is a mistake that need not be judged so harshly. It was when he had to do his thing in Little Rock.

The placards were stored if not made on Walkers property, stored in his garage and distributed from there.?

Or a lovely excuse that cannot be refuted? (ref in order)

Further stuff that was circulating was very much to bolster Walker. Stories about an attempted lobotomy while ''captured''., severe persecution, basically held up by ardent supporters as the mythical nazi ''the man on a horse'' apropos Kennedy on a pony (tricycle?, DMN editor kennedy insult at white house luncheon.) Heady stuff, particularly for someone who has been so humiliated.

Sure, I'd want to be in his foxhole. If I agreed with him. If he agrees with me, I'd want him in mine. As a warrior, sure, why deny it? A mental case, definitely. He just switched (and fixed) fox holes because of who he really was. Which makes him malleable. There were definitely clear thinking people behind him..

edit:typos

Edited by John Dolva
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I have contacted many people from both the 24th and from many other units and have even exchanged an email or two with the person who runs that site. In speaking with the men and in some cases woman family members of men who served with Walker I find that people had an opinion of him when they served with him which was, at times, later tweaked and influenced by events that transpired after they served with him. There is an old cliche in politics, "If you throw enough mud against a wall some of it sticks." And Walker, over the years, has had a great deal of mud thrown at his reputation and career. But in my interviews, those that served closely with Walker, especially those who served with him in combat, without exception reguarded him as a man that they wanted in a foxhole with them if they were in combat.

Having said that, it is true that Walker's character was not portrayed in the movie "The Devils Brigade" because he was viewed as to controversial. Walker was banned from traveling in Canada based upon events that occured after 1961. When the colors of the First Special Services Force were exchanged for the colors of the Green Berets, Walker was not allowed to be at the ceremony although, as I understand it, every other surviving American of the FSSF was invited and many did attend. Even Gerry Hemming, a frequent visitor to the Walker residence, assured me that after the morals charges against Walker many men who had served with him were less enthusiastic about Walker then they had been in prior years.

So in my research I have found two views of Walker. First we have the Walker that men served with and second, the Walker that became highly publicized after his resignation. Some mud did stick but not nearly as much as you might think.

Jim,

I'm aware you don't feel Walker should be blamed for Pro Blue, and that indeed, you might even consider that Pro Blue itself has been unfairly criticized, but do you also beleve he was smeared for his actions in Ol' Miss, and that his "morals" arrests were without foundation - in effect, just further smears?

Delgado says very clearly in response to being asked about Oswald being in Germany, "I knew that he was over there going to school..."

What Delgado was unlear on was, "I can't for the life of me recall where I got the scoop that I thought he was going to some school in Berlin..."

Germany is a country, Berlin is a specific place within that country. Delgado was unclear on if he was in Berlin but "knew" that he was "there"(in Germany).

I personally believe that Delgado would have remembered if Oswald said that he was going to the Soviet Union and Delgado would have been much less likely to think that Oswald was in Berlin if Oswald had said Russia rather than Germany.

This piece of testimony sheds more light:

Mr. DELGADO. In November. As--when I got back, I saw the pictures all over the papers as him having defected. and then we had the investigation there.

Mr. LIEBELER. But even though you had heard before you had gotten out of the Marine Corps that Oswald had gone to the Soviet Union, while you were the Army in Germany you gained the impression that somehow that he was in Berlin, going to school?

Mr. DELGADO. Yes; in the university there.

Mr. LIEBELER. But you don't have any recollection of where you got this idea?

Mr. DELGADO. No.

Mr. LIEBELER. You were under the impression, then, that he had left the Soviet Union?

Mr. DELGADO. Yes. I couldn't--Oswald loved to travel, right, but if he couldn't take military life, where everything was told to him, I'm sure he couldn't take no life in Russia, where he was subjected to strict, you know, watching. I couldn't picture him living over there. I thought he had gone to, you know, like I said, the university in Berlin, to study there. He wanted to study psychology.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you think that he was perhaps at the same university that you spoke of before, that he had applied for when he was in the Marines?

Mr. DELGADO. No; because I--the way I understand it, it's--there's two big psychologists institutes in Europe. One is in Switzerland. If he was a devout Communist or pro-Russian, as they say he was---one was in East Berlin, and one was in Switzerland--he couldn't have gone to Switzerland. I knew he applied for Switzerland.

Mr. LIEBELER. So you figured that because he had this interest in psychology, and .since he was interested in communism, he probably wouldn't have gone to the university in Switzerland, but he might very well have gone to the one in Berlin?

Mr. DELGADO. Well, actually it was on their own level. They would train him their way.

Based on the above, it appears that Delgado, having read about Oswald's defection and already knowing he wanted to study psychology, assumed he abandoned plans to go to Swizerland to study and would instead, study in another Communist country - East Germany.

But what catches my eye is that he uses current thinking of others ("...if he was a devout communist or Pro-Russian, as they say...") to justify what he claims he thought in 1959 as to why Oswald opted to study in East Germany over Swizerland - despite knowing he'd applied to a Swiss college) . This can be indicative of hiding something or not being totally truthful.

The other thing is - how did a Marine grunt just happen to know where the two biggest psychology institutes in Europe were located? How many Marine grunts now would just happen to kn ow that?

On October 24th 1963, a month before Kennedys visit to Dallas, the US Ambasssador to the United Nations Adlai Stevenson had been in town. While on his visit Stevenson had been hit in the head by a woman holding an anti-United Nations sign and a man spat on Stevenson and a police officier. The right wing was blamed for the Stevenson incident and yes there was a lot of information "criss-crossing this town" that the Kennedy visit presented an opportunity for similar events.

The demonstration against Stevenson involved members of Walker's group. Are you suggesting the RW was falsely blamed, or were somehow set up?

Yes, information criss-crossed about various possible actions when JFK came to town. The archives have many FBI reports "investigating" "rumors" of people/groups making threats in the lkead up to 11/22. The vast majority of those involved RW individuals or groups and were the result of information from ordinary members of the general public (with one notable exception being a police informant who was also of the right wing). The small number of investigations involving the LW did not originate from the general public but from extremist groups and hawks within government agencies.

According to a DPD intelligence report, the Walker Group (as it was designated) planned a reception. Walker's group ("private army" might be more apt) was one of a number of L & R wing groups being watched in the lead up to 11/22. That reception involved the rubbing of Kennedy's "dick in the dirt". Walker was not one to abandon duties, as you note - yet he did so on this occasion. He did not need to leave Dallas to have an alibi - nor did being elsewhere in Dallas, or on a plane, or any other place that may have been used as an alibi, necessarily exonerate him. All it proves is that he did not pull the trigger himself. But then, Generals usually don't. That's what they have troops for.

During the investigation of the Odio incident, the FBI was informed by a member of the Catholic Cuban Mission that Walker and Col. L Robert Castorr had been stirring up the Cuban exiles against Kennedy. Either in that document, or a separate one in the same investigation, it also came out that an exile who walked at Parkland hospital had also been stirring up trouble in the Cuban community. After the assassination, the DPD was informed by the wife of a detective no less, that a Cuban orderly had been overheard threatening Kennedy. This exile was apparently quickly repatriated back to Miami, and the DPD didn't bother looking into it any further.

Col. Castorr, as a matter of possible significance, had been involved in an attempted gun smuggling operation the year before with Jack Ruby and later played a role in the Iran-Contra affair.

"...I (Walker) was on a plane flying from New Orleans to Shreveport when the pilot announced that Kennedy had been killed. I've got the plane number and everyone who was on it..." An event that I have seen attributed to Walker many times throughout the years and is in this article repeated once again.

It is a direct quote. Surely you don't think it is a made up quote?

Let's recap: It was known that Walker and his group planned "something" for Kennedy's motorcade. He and Castorr had been strring up the exile community and one of those exiles is overheard threatening Kennedy. But then Walker abondons dick rubbing plans and decides he needs an alibi, so makes sure he is on a plane interstate and gets the number of the plane and a passenger list. Is that believable? All it proves is that he was not a shooter. Being on a plane or anywhere else does not preclude involvement.

"...the Kennedy assassination was an overlapping conspiracy incidental to the larger conspiracy to assassinate General Walker..."

This is not a Walker quote but you have placed it in the middle of several Walker quotes. It was the opinion of the author and should be addressed as such.

My apologies. It is the author paraphrasing a pamphlet written by Walker, and that is what I should have said.

As for the actual quotes; all I can say is that I think we'll have to agree to disagree on interpretation.

I do think the Limited Test Ban sealed Kennedy's fate. It was, as they say, the final straw.

As a side note. IMO, Oswald's trip to the Soviet Union was tied up with the Geneva negotiations.

Edited by Greg Parker
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Greg

Just a quick note here....I hope to write more later

I wanted to first deal with this particular observation of yours:

"I'm aware you don't feel Walker should be blamed for Pro Blue, and that indeed, you might even consider that Pro Blue itself has been unfairly criticized, but do you also beleve he was smeared for his actions in Ol' Miss, and that his "morals" arrests were without foundation - in effect, just further smears?"

Two different words, blamed, responsible. I believe Walker took total responsibility for his Pro Blue Program and it cost him his military career. I also believe that Walker was "blamed" for a program that he had been operating for years (under one name or another) within the confines of similar programs that were occuring in every division of the Army of the United States at that time and that Walker did not understand why it suddenly became such a big deal. That the program becoming such a big deal coincides with Oswald's attempt to return to the United States is what I find most fascinating.

While we look at the indoctrination of troop in the mico of Walker and the future the reality of the indoctrination of troops in the present of 1960 was common and not unusual. That Walker was signaled out, when I believe many others could have been singled out, such as Patton was during WWII, and then put in a postion to resign begs a closer look.....especially in light of missing flight passenger lists associated with Oswald's trip from London to Helsinki. Especially when associated with a letter from McCloy to Walker (June 1963) that coincides with McCloy's "disagreements" with Kennedy.

I believe (not in a position to check my facts today) that the Ol' Miss incident led to a libel suit brought by Walker that he won. The monetary damages portion was later overturned but the fact that he won that suit would lead us to say that legally that incident was a smear and without foundation.

The morals charge is a completely different story. I do think there may have been two of them and have no reason to believe that they were not true. It is this particular twist that led me to attempt to resach the homosexual angle of Walker's character further. As a young man Walker was sent to two different military schools, one in Texas and one in New Mexico. I had the opportunity to interview a few hometown folks that knew Walker or were familiar with the community as a whole and the impression (albeit after the morals incidents were known) was that Walker's family had sent Walker to military schools to "cure" him of this particular problem. One person that I interviewed (who did not know Walker personally)seemed to have done a great deal of research into this particular area and indicated that Walker's particular persuasion was know within a small tight knit community which I would think would not be surprising during the life of Walker.

It is difficult to piece together a lot of Walker's childhood if for no other reason than there are not many living resources to draw upon. I have been led to speculate based upon what I have learned but it is only speculation. It does seem clear that while a student at West Point Walker had the ability to spend time attending Broadway Productions and particiapated in the social life surrounding the preformers in these productions. I even have evidence that supports the belief that Walker may have actually performed in a very short lived off Broadway production.

IF Walker had homosexual tendencies and if these became apparent while he was a student at West Point, Walker could have become a very malable tool for use by Army Intelligence. I do have evidence that within months of Walker's graduation from West Point he was involved in an undercover drug investigation on a military base. When you follow Walker's early career it is spattered with evidence of undercover intelligence activities that his particular morals may have allowed him to better fullfill.

Jim Root

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Guest Tom Scully

Jim,

I am hoping that you are just caught up in an eager fit of "wishing might make it so," because, given my understanding of the dynamics behind the politics of then and now, I would react to your points as if they were extrermist revisionism, and I come into this thinking you are too perceptive to let that happen.

Nothing has changed, Jim, in fifty years. A new young president, branded a "socialist" by the opposition, keeps the right wing malignancy, aka Bob Gates in control at the pentagon. But no concession to the extremists is ever enough. An innocent movie reference, delivered off the cuff by Gates, or another in a long, long line of veiled threats?

http://www.truthout.org/seven-days-january...washington56556

Seven Days in January: How the Pentagon Counts Coup in Washington

Sunday 31 January 2010

by: Tom Engelhardt | TomDispatch.com

Sometimes it pays to read a news story to the last paragraph where a reporter can slip in that little gem for the news jockeys, or maybe just for the hell of it. You know, the irresistible bit that doesn’t fit comfortably into the larger news frame, but that can be packed away in the place most of your readers will never get near, where your editor is likely to give you a free pass.

So it was, undoubtedly, with New York Times reporter Elisabeth Bumiller, who accompanied Secretary of Defense Robert Gates as he stumbled through a challenge-filled, error-prone two-day trip to Pakistan. Gates must have felt a little like a punching bag by the time he boarded his plane for home having, as Juan Cole pointed out, managed to signal “that the U.S. is now increasingly tilting to India and wants to put it in charge of Afghanistan security; that Pakistan is isolated… and that Pakistani conspiracy theories about Blackwater were perfectly correct and he had admitted it. In baseball terms, Gates struck out.”

In any case, here are the last two paragraphs of Bumiller’s parting January 23rd piece on the trip:

Mr. Gates, who repeatedly told the Pakistanis that he regretted their country’s ‘trust deficit’ with the United States and that Americans had made a grave mistake in abandoning Pakistan after the Russians left Afghanistan, promised the military officers that the United States would do better.

His final message delivered, he relaxed on the 14-hour trip home by watching ‘Seven Days in May,’ the cold war-era film about an attempted military coup in the United States.”...

Jim, isn't it true that Walker chose to resign rather than to follow an order reassiging him?

I anticipate that this post will be open to criticism as a partisan rant, hence the inclusion of the article above to demonstrate that Walker was confronted by a then new administration confronted with the same politicized and rightward indoctrinated military we enjoy today....they just decided to stand up to it, instead of putting a do not disturb sign on the DOD secretary's office, instead of appointing a successor picked by Obama instead of Bush. The result is seen in Gates's public announcement of his movie ubject fare, and the installation of private christian army, Blackwater inside Pakistan.

Isn't it true that the federal charges against Walker in Mississippi were dismissed, without prejudice, meaning they could be filed again during the five year statutory period, if a future, all white local grand jury could be persuaded to indict him, since the initial jury wouldn't?

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&...nge=1998%2C2007

Officers Worrying Pentagon; RIGHT-WING AIDES WORRY PENTAGON

$3.95 - New York Times - Jun 18, 1961

by Cabell Philips

WASHINGTON, June 17 -- The Pentagon is having its troubles with

right-wingers in uniform.

A number of officers of high and middle rank are indoctrinating their

commands and the civilian population near their bases with political

theories resembling those of the John Birch Society. They are also

holding up to criticism and ridicule some official policies of the

United States Government.

The most conspicuous example of some of these officers was Maj. Gen.

Edwin A. Walker, who was officially "admonished" for his activities

by the Secretary of the Army earlier this week.

General Walker's offense was in saying that a number of prominent

Americans, as well as elements of the newspaper and television industries,

were tainted with Communist ideology.

He did this in the course of a continuing effort that the general said

was "designed to develop an understanding of the American military and

civil heritage, responsibility toward that heritage and the facts and

objectives of those enemies who would destroy it."

General Walker was the commander of the Twenty-Fourth Infantry Division

in Germany at the time...

The problem for the Pentagon arises out of the fact that a number of its

higher ranking officers have participated in or publically lent their

support to a variety of so-called forums, schools, and seminars,

ostensibly focused on the issues of national security. However, many of

those groups -- at least incidentally -- are preoccupied with radically

right-wing political philosophies.

Stress on Anti-Communism

The chief ingredient of these philosophies is often a militant

anti-communism. The argument is that Communist subversion today is rife

among the schools, the churches, labor unions, Government offices, and

elsewhere.

In this argument, liberalism is equated with socialism and socialism with

communism. Thus it opposes most welfare legislation, many programs for

international cooperation such as foreign aid and disarmament

conferences...

The genesis of this program goes back to the so-called "cold war policy"

evolved by the National Security Council in the summer of 1958...

Cold War Widened

President Eisenhower and his top policy leaders decreed that the "cold

war" could not be fought as a series of separate and often unrelated

actions, as with foreign aid and propaganda. Rather, it must be fought

with a concentration of all the resources of the Government and with

the full understanding and support of the civilian population. It was

decided, in particular, that the military should be used to reinforce

the "cold war" effort.

This was the substance of the still-classified "cold-war policy" paper

of the National Security Council...

Of the hundreds of military bases here and abroad, only a score have

become involved in these programs to the point that they have caused

alarm among the new civilian team in the Pentagon. Officials suspect,

however, that the trend is somewhat more widespread than their reports

currently indicate. They are quietly trying to find out how widespread

it is.

A typical example about which they do know is a seminar labeled Project

Action.

This was held at the Naval Air Station, Wold-Chamberlain Field,

Minneapolis, on April 28 and 29 of this year. Capt. Robert T. Kieling

is the commanding officer of the station. He was a co-sponsor of the

program in collaboration with a committee of the Minneapolis-St. Paul

Chamber of Commerce.

The official announcement described the program as follows:

"The purpose of Project Action is to inspire the citizens of this area

to take an active part in the war against the danger that threatens our

freedom and American way of life."

"The program of talks and presentations by nationally-known leaders for

the cause of democracy will bring to light facts and figures concerning

the rising crime rate, juvenile delinquency, drug addiction, the general

degradation of morals, the complacent attitude toward patriotism, and

the tremendous gains the Communist conspiracy is making in this

country..."

The United States Naval Air Station is making facilities available for

the seminar at the request of the Twin Cities Council for American

Ideals...

Among the scores of letters concerning Project Action that reached the

Pentagon in the following days was one from a newspaper editor. It said

in part:

"Perhaps someone can clear up for us our lack of understanding as to just

how co-sponsorship of such activities fits in with the Navy mission, or

the overall military mission, for that matter. It must be admitted that

the local Project Action is politically partisan in a very real sense,

although the partisanship is not that of the party label type." ...

Among numerous other incidents that have been brought to the attention

of the Defense Department is the "Fourth Dimensional Warfare Seminar"

held in Pittsburgh on April 15. Among those listed as giving "assistance

and support" to the program were Lieut. Gen. Ridgely Gaither, Commanding

General, Second Army, and Maj. Gen. Ralph C. Cooper, Commanding General

of the Twenty-First Army Corps, and their respective staffs...

"This sort of thing, if carried far enough among susceptible people,

can breed a wave of vigilantism and witch-hunting," one Pentagon official

said. "Even Mr. Hoover of the F.B.I., whom nobody would call 'soft on

communism,' deplores these self-appointed counter-spies." ...

Reinforcing his point, he took from his desk a memorandum from Secretary

of Defense Robert S. McNamara, which has been circulated as "guidance"

throughout the services. In part, it said:

"After the President has taken a position, has established a policy, or

after appropriate officials in the Defense Department have established a

policy, I expect that no member of the department, either civilian or

military, will discuss that policy other than in a way to support it

before the public." ...

'Blacklist' 14 Military Leaders

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Aug 6, 1961

ic Scientists, dated March 3, 1961, and a lengthy New York newspaper account of June 18 headed "Right Wing Officers Worry Pentagon." ...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=RRgzA...s+speech+bPinko Hunt In Schools Blasted By Richardson Foundation Aide .

Lodi News-Sentinel - Google News Archive - Sep 5, 1961

In organizing local cold war ses sions, Barnett suggested reserve officers enlist broad civic sponsor ship. Other words." he said, "if a local college or ...

Walker won two libel suits against the press, one in Ft. Worth, and one in Louisiana. Both verdicts were overturned in a 1967 Supreme Court ruling. How many blacks were sitting on each jury, Jim?

Dr. Charles White's remote diagnosis of Walker's mental state after "ole MIss", where he said this,

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qf0KA...f+the&hl=en St. Petersburg Times - Sep 30, 1962

...A statement released by Walker's Dallas office last night said,

"This is Edwin A. Walker. I am in Mississippi beside Gov. Ross

Barnett. I call for a national protest against the conspiracy

from within.

Rally to the cause of freedom in righteous indignation, violent

vocal protest and bitter silence under the flag of Mississippi

at the use of Federal troops.

This today is a disgrace to the nation in 'dire peril,' a

disgrace beyond the capacity of anyone except its enemies.

This is the conspiracy of the crucifixion by anti-Christ

conspirators of the Supreme Court in their denial of prayer

and their betrayal of a nation."

...resulted in a swift lettering writing campaign of 2500 letters to Dr. White's professional associations in an attempt to lift White's license to practice. There was no internet....do you think that massive letter writing was spontaneous?

Walker was no patsy or victim of the intel establishment. His record speaks for itself. It is indefensible, with terrible timing by Walker. He could have followed orders and moved to his new assignment. He also could have resigned in an orderly way to be eligible for his deserved pension, which he threw away in a gesture of protest, only to later regret it.

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Tom

Thank you for the note.

My research is based upon hypothesis that has either been supported by facts or destroyed by facts. Each new fact uncovered has then provided new hypothesis which leads to new research. I do not see this as revisionist in any way. When I was in college I did a paper that compared Civil War era newspaper articles that reported upon the same events. I was amazed by how different the story could be told depending upon the slant the author placed upon the story. In many many cases it was difficult to tell that the same event was being reported except that the dates and the headlines usually allowed me to assume the stories were about the same event.

So it is with history in geneeral.....we say that history is told by tthe victors....one persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist. How we interperet events depends upon our views and the slants we wish to place upon the facts we uncover.

For myself the Walker story began as a contridiction. Here was a man that in 1957 was a hero of the Civil Rights Movement amd conteporary news stories show a man who basked in the media attention he achieved as a hero of that movement. Four years later Walker is at the center the far right fring. To make matters more difficult to understand we find that the Walker of 1957 has been revised into the Walker of 1961. While I have found that most JFK conspiracy theorist want to believe that the US Govt. has had the ability to manipulate news reporting for years, and several threads on this particular site deal with that, when it comes to the Walker story the news post 1961 has it right and the news pre 1961 has it wrong. There lies the contridiction which I find so interesting and has led me to dig so deeply into the life of this man.....and in so doing develop a theory that explains how a conspiracy to assassinate JFK would have worked. What I find most interesting about it is that it needed to involve very few people yet the primary person who may have been involved, John J. McCloy was positioned to make sure the evidence that would have implicated him within my theory was so well covered up.

Three facts:

A) The passenger lists from the plane/s that carried Oswald from London to Helsinki, although available at the time were never made a part of the Warren Commission Report and records.

B) FBI Agent Hosty's third note which said exactly where Oswald was working prior to the finalization of the motorcade route through Dallas was never given a commission exhibit number therefore making sure that whoever in government that had access to this information would not be known. Rather important piece of evidence.

C) The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact someone by the name of John Hurt while in custody after the assassination was not made a part of the record but the two men who investigated Lee Harvey Oswald for potential intelligence contacts were closely associated with NSA employee John B. Hurt.

By researching Walker I have been able to shed light on each of these three facts. Dealing with:

A) Walker was traveling in Europe at the same time as Oswald and I can prove that they could have been on the same flights while each arrived at different locations.

B) FBI Agent Hosty's notes (the two given commission exhibit numbers) were making it to the office of Richard Helms. Helms, in 1959, gathered information from former OSS/Pond members about Helsinki, Finland in the months preceeding Oswald's arrival in the same location. The laison that Helms was using to gather this information was a close associate of Demitri DeMor(sp) brother of George DeMor(sp) who befriended Oswald while he was in Dallas.

C) During WWII John B. Hurt was providing information directly to John J. McCloy in his position of Asst. Sec. of War and by 1934 Edwin Walker can be associated with Hurt as well. Walker also did two specific missions during WWII that McCloy took a particular interest in and did them with stunning success.

Feel free to do with my research as you wish but please allow me to put a couple of "slants" on your statements.

"Isn't it true that the federal charges against Walker in Mississippi were dismissed, without prejudice, meaning they could be filed again during the five year statutory period, if a future, all white local grand jury could be persuaded to indict him, since the initial jury wouldn't?"

You are correct that the charges were not reintroduced. Sometimes that occurs when there is not enough evidence to support the charges.

"Walker won two libel suits against the press, one in Ft. Worth, and one in Louisiana. Both verdicts were overturned in a 1967 Supreme Court ruling. How many blacks were sitting on each jury, Jim?"

Was ot a jury trial or was it heard by a judge. I believe the verdicts were not overturned it was the award that was overturned. And I do believe there was a black man on the Supreme Court at that time.

"Dr. Charles White's remote diagnosis of Walker's mental state after "ole MIss....."

I recently read a remote diagnosis dealing with President Obama's severe narcissistic personality disorder.....I give this about as much credence as I give to Dr. Charles White's remote diagnosis.

I might ask do you accept one, both or neither of these remote diagnosis of these two different men who have perhaps differednt ideologies? And does one ideology make one remote diagnosis easier to accept than the other?

Jim Root

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From MSC files :

http://mdah.state.ms.us/bugle/sovcom/resul...156|1|1|1|4515|

7 Nazis from Dallas, 1 a former Walker chauffeur, who was also at Ole Miss where Walker led the insurrection.

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