The Chaney witnesses speak

[Jack White]

Well, it is about all over now. I have found an image of Chaney's motorcycle approaching

the Chaney car. It had been overlooked all these years because the frame is very dark,

but when enhanced, the object can be nothing except a fast moving motorycle in the middle

of Elm Street aproaching the Chaney car which is not in the underpass. It shows exactly what

all the witnesses said. I will post it after I do a few finishing touches.

Jack

I am holding up for a little while on posting this. I am having email discussions with John

Costella about the image. He wants me to make sure it is not some other object in the street

before posting it. Admittedly the image is blurry, but it looks very much like a motorcycle.

Most of you except Logan will think it appears to be a motorcycle approaching the Curry

car, which is still in sunlight outside of the underpass.

I have been reviewing the Bell film for about an hour. I will post the image shortly unless

Costella proves the blurry image is something else.

Jack

Well...back to the drawing board. Costella has sent me a SUPERIOR frame than the very

dark Groden frame I used. In it, it can be seen that the blurry object is the JFK limo, not

a motorcycle, even though it is smaller than the Curry car ahead of it. I find this rather

curious, but will do a new composite and post it. You will be able to see why I think it

looks like a motorcycle.

Jack

Here is my revised study using the Costella framest. However, I am still puzzled that

my enhancement of the dark Groden frame looks much more like a motorcycle than

the limo. I am surprised that a much clearer copy exists than Groden's...and that the

frame Costella calls the "previous frame" is missing from Groden's. I wonder why. I am

also puzzled by the brown shape in my enhancement that looks like the saddlebags

on the rear of a motorcycle. There is nothing like that on the limo. The computer

enhancement brought that out, not me. It appears to be much smaller than the limo

and is leaning to the left like a motorcycle might. And the enhancement seems to

show a white helmet like the motorcops.

Comments invited.

Jack

[John Dugan]

"Players who bet on the Stemmons bridge will fold their hands with this royal flush witness testimony!"

Jack, this may be one of your best comments ever!

[Bernice Moore]

Well...back to the drawing board. Costella has sent me a SUPERIOR frame than the very

dark Groden frame I used. In it, it can be seen that the blurry object is the JFK limo, not

a motorcycle, even though it is smaller than the Curry car ahead of it. I find this rather

curious, but will do a new composite and post it. You will be able to see why I think it

looks like a motorcycle.

Jack

Here is my revised study using the Costella frames. However, I am still puzzled that

my enhancement of the dark Groden frame looks much more like a motorcycle than

the limo. I am surprised that a much clearer copy exists than Groden's...and that the

frame Costella calls the "previous frame" is missing from Groden's. I wonder why. I am

also puzzled by the brown shape in my enhancement that looks like the saddlebags

on the rear of a motorcycle. There is nothing like that on the limo. The computer

enhancement brought that out, not me. It appears to be much smaller than the limo

and is leaning to the left like a motorcycle might. And the enhancement seems to

show a white helmet like the motorcops.

Comments invited.

Jack

IN THE DARK GRODEN BELL FRAME IT DOES GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF A MOTORCYCLE AND SADDLE BAGS WELL IMO..I HAVE NO IDEA WHY SUCH A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FRAMES COULD BE YOU HAVE FOUND ANOTHER OOPS JACK.. BEST B..

Edited February 3, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Chris Scally]

Jack:

I agree with your puzzlement, but I think you've only shown that Bob Groden cut frames out of his copy of Bell.

The "Groden Bell" and "Costella Same" frames are very badly blurred - see the three motorcycles ahead of Curry, for example. If one didn't already know what they were, they could be anything one wanted them to be. By the same token, what you have circled in the Groden enhancement as "Chaney" could equally be anything the imagination wants it to be.

However, John Costella's "Previous" frame shows the three lead motorcycles to be nothing other than what they are - motorcycles - and to me, the "blur" on Elm is clearly seen to be the limo - not Chaney.

I don't know what Bob Groden did to the films - be it appears he left one or more frames out of Bell, for whatever reason (possibly because they were so badly blurred?). Has John Costella got any more sequential frames immediately before this, and we might find out how many frames Groden omitted?

Chris

[Robin Unger]

Groden Zoomed BLURY FRAME.

[Dean Hagerman]

Jack:

I agree with your puzzlement, but I think you've only shown that Bob Groden cut frames out of his copy of Bell.

The "Groden Bell" and "Costella Same" frames are very badly blurred - see the three motorcycles ahead of Curry, for example. If one didn't already know what they were, they could be anything one wanted them to be. By the same token, what you have circled in the Groden enhancement as "Chaney" could equally be anything the imagination wants it to be.

However, John Costella's "Previous" frame shows the three lead motorcycles to be nothing other than what they are - motorcycles - and to me, the "blur" on Elm is clearly seen to be the limo - not Chaney.

I don't know what Bob Groden did to the films - be it appears he left one or more frames out of Bell, for whatever reason (possibly because they were so badly blurred?). Has John Costella got any more sequential frames immediately before this, and we might find out how many frames Groden omitted?

Chris

I have heard a story about Groden doing this to the Weigman film

But I cant see him taking frames away from a film, he knows that would be wrong

Edited February 3, 2010 by Dean Hagerman

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Here is another...Lumpkin:

Officer Lumpkin, one of three cops riding ahead of the Curry lead car (seen in McIntire) says:

1. They were stopped at the time of the shots (seen in Bell film just beyond the underpass).

2. Looked back saw commotion in limo.

3. Chaney rode up to Curry car to tell him the president had been shot.

4. We were still stopped at that time.

5. Curry came on radio and said "Let's go, boys".

6. Chaney came forward and joined the 3 at the Stemmons entrance ramp.

7. Lumpkin, Gray and Chaney led the way to Parkland.

Jack,

You claim in your post that, according to Officer Lumpkin, the three cops riding ahead of the Curry lead car “stopped at the time of the shots (seen in Bell film just beyond the underpass).” In support this you provide an attachment to your post which is an interview with Officer Lumpkin by Larry Sneed.

But that's NOT what Lumpkin says in the Sneed interview. What he says is “We were stopped on Elm Street between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass.”.

Of course both the Bell film and the McIntyre photo show that not to be true. And both the Bell film and the McIntyre photo show that the three are not stopped. In Bell they are visible moving and in McIntyre none of them have their feet or kickstands down and must therefore be moving.

Further, in your caption for the McIntyre photo, you claim that Chaney is “nowhere to be seen”, when in fact he is visible in the Triple underpass.

Todd

[Chris Davidson]

Jack,

According to the Bell film as we see it in Groden's version, that should be the limo.

But my next question would be:

What are the three figures protruding above the limo, at that point in time?

I was under the impression that Hill would be the only one standing up at this time.

chris

[Chris Scally]

Hi, Chris:

Have another look at Bell - viewing the film in motion rather than as still frames, what I think we see is the Secret Service follow-up car.

If you run Bell a little further forward from the point shown in the stills in this thread, you'll see the limo pulling alongside Curry as they exit the underpass, so this vehicle must be the one behind the limo - ie. the follow-up car. Agree?

Chris.

[Chris Davidson]

Hi, Chris:

Have another look at Bell - viewing the film in motion rather than as still frames, what I think we see is the Secret Service follow-up car.

If you run Bell a little further forward from the point shown in the stills in this thread, you'll see the limo pulling alongside Curry as they exit the underpass, so this vehicle must be the one behind the limo - ie. the follow-up car. Agree?

Chris.

Hi Chris,

The frame I previously supplied is one of the first few in Groden's version of Bell.

I thought maybe he had arranged Bell's filming sequence out of order.

I don't think so.

Take a look at these 2 frames.

The left side is what I supplied earlier, the right side is another frame from the same Groden film.

Notice the car position in relation to the people in the red box.

There appears to be a big problem here.

chris

[Jack White]

Jack:

I agree with your puzzlement, but I think you've only shown that Bob Groden cut frames out of his copy of Bell.

The "Groden Bell" and "Costella Same" frames are very badly blurred - see the three motorcycles ahead of Curry, for example. If one didn't already know what they were, they could be anything one wanted them to be. By the same token, what you have circled in the Groden enhancement as "Chaney" could equally be anything the imagination wants it to be.

However, John Costella's "Previous" frame shows the three lead motorcycles to be nothing other than what they are - motorcycles - and to me, the "blur" on Elm is clearly seen to be the limo - not Chaney.

I don't know what Bob Groden did to the films - be it appears he left one or more frames out of Bell, for whatever reason (possibly because they were so badly blurred?). Has John Costella got any more sequential frames immediately before this, and we might find out how many frames Groden omitted?

Chris

Thanks for your comments, Chris. I have been studying the Bell film for several hours.

I have been trying to emulate the late Tom Wilson's technique of peeling away layers

of retouching to find what is underneath.

It is possible that BLURRY retouching is used to conceal some other object underneath.

Here is one of Tom's studies (133B).

Jack

[Robin Unger]

Hi, Chris:

Have another look at Bell - viewing the film in motion rather than as still frames, what I think we see is the Secret Service follow-up car.

If you run Bell a little further forward from the point shown in the stills in this thread, you'll see the limo pulling alongside Curry as they exit the underpass, so this vehicle must be the one behind the limo - ie. the follow-up car. Agree?

Chris.

SS Follow up car.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Jack White]

Here is another...Lumpkin:

Officer Lumpkin, one of three cops riding ahead of the Curry lead car (seen in McIntire) says:

1. They were stopped at the time of the shots (seen in Bell film just beyond the underpass).

2. Looked back saw commotion in limo.

3. Chaney rode up to Curry car to tell him the president had been shot.

4. We were still stopped at that time.

5. Curry came on radio and said "Let's go, boys".

6. Chaney came forward and joined the 3 at the Stemmons entrance ramp.

7. Lumpkin, Gray and Chaney led the way to Parkland.

Jack,

You claim in your post that, according to Officer Lumpkin, the three cops riding ahead of the Curry lead car “stopped at the time of the shots (seen in Bell film just beyond the underpass).” In support this you provide an attachment to your post which is an interview with Officer Lumpkin by Larry Sneed.

But that's NOT what Lumpkin says in the Sneed interview. What he says is “We were stopped on Elm Street between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass.”.

Of course both the Bell film and the McIntyre photo show that not to be true. And both the Bell film and the McIntyre photo show that the three are not stopped. In Bell they are visible moving and in McIntyre none of them have their feet or kickstands down and must therefore be moving.

Further, in your caption for the McIntyre photo, you claim that Chaney is “nowhere to be seen”, when in fact he is visible in the Triple underpass.

Todd

You are clearly wrong about the 3 motorcycles in Bell. They are seen MOTIONLESS UNDER THE OVERHEAD SIGN

for many frames while the motorcade is moving. In McIntire they have moved from under the sign.

You are far too trusting of what is seen in films. As far as I know there is no film of Elm Street before the motorcade

was on Elm. You seem to be telling what is in films that I have never seen.

[Jack White]

Jack,

According to the Bell film as we see it in Groden's version, that should be the limo.

But my next question would be:

What are the three figures protruding above the limo, at that point in time?

I was under the impression that Hill would be the only one standing up at this time.

chris

Great catch, Chris! I saw that while watching in a smaller size a frame at a time,

but thought it part of the shadow. In your bigger and clearer frame grab, it looks

very anomalous!

Jack

[Jack White]

Hi, Chris:

Have another look at Bell - viewing the film in motion rather than as still frames, what I think we see is the Secret Service follow-up car.

If you run Bell a little further forward from the point shown in the stills in this thread, you'll see the limo pulling alongside Curry as they exit the underpass, so this vehicle must be the one behind the limo - ie. the follow-up car. Agree?

Chris.

Chris...who is the lady in the car with the pink hat and pink dress?

Jack