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Chaney Rides Forward?


Jerry Logan
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See for example this Cancellare photo which, it seems extremely likely to me, is not a composite of an earlier photo. But those shadows look pretty short.

10357a.jpg

Additionally, I'm not entirely sure we're seeing the top of the shadow. There's no bulbous top profile as in other street lamp shadows, indicating that the real top may be lost in the grass or lost in photo reproduction.

Jerry

The Cancellare photo above is a blatant composite, as the shadow thrown by the figure at (viewer's) left on the south curb of Elm does not align with the direction of the shadows thrown by the various figures on the north curb (foreground). The shadow cast by the former is from a later portion of the day, or some other day.

Unless, of course, we are to believe that there were two suns at work above Dealey Plaza that day!

Paul,

I'm certain you sincerely believe this. However, the shadows look exactly as they should because of their differing angular relationship to the optical axis of the lens.

Obviously you're not going to take my word for this so I urge you to contact someone you trust who understands optical geometry.

Perhaps Jack can ask Dr. Costella to comment on the photo and what you believe it shows.

You're making an extremely common error and individuals on both sides of the issue who understand optics will reject your analysis out of hand.

Jerry

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Obviously you're not going to take my word for this so I urge you to contact someone you trust who understands optical geometry.

Perhaps Jack can ask Dr. Costella to comment on the photo and what you believe it shows.

You're making an extremely common error and individuals on both sides of the issue who understand optics will reject your analysis out of hand.

Jerry

White and Costella just might not be good source for understanding how a shadow works...

www.craiglamson.com/apollo.htm

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See for example this Cancellare photo which, it seems extremely likely to me, is not a composite of an earlier photo. But those shadows look pretty short.

10357a.jpg

Additionally, I'm not entirely sure we're seeing the top of the shadow. There's no bulbous top profile as in other street lamp shadows, indicating that the real top may be lost in the grass or lost in photo reproduction.

Jerry

The Cancellare photo above is a blatant composite, as the shadow thrown by the figure at (viewer's) left on the south curb of Elm does not align with the direction of the shadows thrown by the various figures on the north curb (foreground). The shadow cast by the former is from a later portion of the day, or some other day.

Unless, of course, we are to believe that there were two suns at work above Dealey Plaza that day!

Why don't you do a VPA on this image and THEN get back to us. You just might be surprised at the results, and save yourself future embarrassment.

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Note also that Jackson, while a bit erratic, nevertheless repeatedly admitted stopping, which would serve to confirm the Nix film, which would serve to confirm the Zapruder film.

Of course, that's not how the "everything is fake" crowd will see it...

Douglas Jackson rode on the far right of the President. (Notes written on the night of 11-22-63 as reprinted in The Kennedy Assassination Tapes, 1979): Officer C “we turned west onto Elm Street. Drove only a short way traveling very slowly. About that time I heard what I thought was a car back fire and I looked around and then to the President’s car in time for the next explosion and saw Mr. Connally jerk back to his right and it seemed that he look right at me. I could see a shocked expression on his face…I began stopping my motor…I looked back toward Mr. Kennedy and saw him hit in the head; he appeared to have been hit just above the right ear. The top of his head flew off away from me.” (As quoted by Fred Newcomb in Murder from Within, an unpublished manuscript from 1974) ""Mr. Connally was looking toward me. And about that time then the second shot went off. That's the point when I knew that somebody was shooting at them because that was the time he [Connally] got hit - because he jerked. I was looking directly at him…he was looking…kind of back toward me and…he just kind of flinched." "…that car just all but stopped…just a moment." (9-17-75 FBI report) “As the presidential vehicle was proceeding down Elm Street, and Jackson was turning the corner from Houston to Elm Street, he heard a loud (noise) which he first thought to be a motorcycle backfire. (He looked) at the Presidential car to see what the reaction was and observed Texas Governor John Connally turn to his right in the car. At the same time he heard a second noise and saw Connally jerk to his right. At this point, Jackson had just rounded the corner from Houston to Elm Street and he recognized the second noise as a definite gunshot…At this point, he was 15 to 20 feet away from the Presidential vehicle and he stopped his motorcycle in the street and looked toward the railroad overpass, directly in front of the Presidential car. He observed a police officer with his hands on his hips, looking toward the Presidential car. As this appeared normal, he then looked to his right and rear in the direction of the Texas School Book Depository and the intersection of Houston and Elm Street and observed many bystanders falling to the ground. He looked toward the Presidential vehicle and at the same time heard a third shot fired. He observed President Kennedy struck in the head above his right ear and the impact of the bullet exploded the top portion of his head, toward the left side of the Presidential vehicle. Jackson immediately knew that Kennedy had been hit and that the shot had been fired from his right rear.”

Nice, Pat. What I hope the "everything is fake" crowd notes is two more witnesses saying they saw JFK wounded just above the right ear ... and his head exploding outward there.

Bests,

Barb :-)

WHAT I HOPE IS THAT THE "NOTHING IS FAKE CROWD" NOTES WHAT I HAVE BOLD FACED ABOVE.

Thanks for highlighting those, Jack.

I began stopping my motor

that car just all but stopped…just a moment.

A motorcycle 15 - 20 feet away did stop to take a look. So what?

And Connally reacted to being hit by the second shot .... yes, I agree, after JFK had already been hit in the back by the first shot.

Nothing here says the limo came to a stop.

Barb :-)

The Z film shows Jackson ACCELERATING past Chaney.

The Z film does not show the limo JUST ALL BUT STOPPED.

The Z film shows Jackson coming past the rear fender of the limo, and NOT STOPPING.

Saying Connally not reacting till the second shot DISPUTES THE SINGLE BULLET THEORY.

And Bests Barb claims to know the evidence.

Refer to Bernice's post #61 above.

See Chaney and Jackson drop back, watch their speed, actions.

Read the quotes again. Pay attention to the time frame that is being talked about.

Watch the film clips again.

Read the quotes again.

As for you saying that Connally not reacting til the second shot disputes the SBT ... one has to wonder just what shot

your knowledge of the evidence tells you was the alleged magic bullet, SBT.

And yeah, bests, Jack. ;-)

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Note also that Jackson, while a bit erratic, nevertheless repeatedly admitted stopping, which would serve to confirm the Nix film, which would serve to confirm the Zapruder film.

Of course, that's not how the "everything is fake" crowd will see it...

Douglas Jackson rode on the far right of the President. (Notes written on the night of 11-22-63 as reprinted in The Kennedy Assassination Tapes, 1979): Officer C “we turned west onto Elm Street. Drove only a short way traveling very slowly. About that time I heard what I thought was a car back fire and I looked around and then to the President’s car in time for the next explosion and saw Mr. Connally jerk back to his right and it seemed that he look right at me. I could see a shocked expression on his face…I began stopping my motor…I looked back toward Mr. Kennedy and saw him hit in the head; he appeared to have been hit just above the right ear. The top of his head flew off away from me.” (As quoted by Fred Newcomb in Murder from Within, an unpublished manuscript from 1974) ""Mr. Connally was looking toward me. And about that time then the second shot went off. That's the point when I knew that somebody was shooting at them because that was the time he [Connally] got hit - because he jerked. I was looking directly at him…he was looking…kind of back toward me and…he just kind of flinched." "…that car just all but stopped…just a moment." (9-17-75 FBI report) “As the presidential vehicle was proceeding down Elm Street, and Jackson was turning the corner from Houston to Elm Street, he heard a loud (noise) which he first thought to be a motorcycle backfire. (He looked) at the Presidential car to see what the reaction was and observed Texas Governor John Connally turn to his right in the car. At the same time he heard a second noise and saw Connally jerk to his right. At this point, Jackson had just rounded the corner from Houston to Elm Street and he recognized the second noise as a definite gunshot…At this point, he was 15 to 20 feet away from the Presidential vehicle and he stopped his motorcycle in the street and looked toward the railroad overpass, directly in front of the Presidential car. He observed a police officer with his hands on his hips, looking toward the Presidential car. As this appeared normal, he then looked to his right and rear in the direction of the Texas School Book Depository and the intersection of Houston and Elm Street and observed many bystanders falling to the ground. He looked toward the Presidential vehicle and at the same time heard a third shot fired. He observed President Kennedy struck in the head above his right ear and the impact of the bullet exploded the top portion of his head, toward the left side of the Presidential vehicle. Jackson immediately knew that Kennedy had been hit and that the shot had been fired from his right rear.”

Nice, Pat. What I hope the "everything is fake" crowd notes is two more witnesses saying they saw JFK wounded just above the right ear ... and his head exploding outward there.

Bests,

Barb :-)

WHAT I HOPE IS THAT THE "NOTHING IS FAKE CROWD" NOTES WHAT I HAVE BOLD FACED ABOVE.

Thanks for highlighting those, Jack.

I began stopping my motor

that car just all but stopped…just a moment.

A motorcycle 15 - 20 feet away did stop to take a look. So what?

And Connally reacted to being hit by the second shot .... yes, I agree, after JFK had already been hit in the back by the first shot.

Nothing here says the limo came to a stop.

Barb :-)

The Z film shows Jackson ACCELERATING past Chaney.

The Z film does not show the limo JUST ALL BUT STOPPED.

The Z film shows Jackson coming past the rear fender of the limo, and NOT STOPPING.

Saying Connally not reacting till the second shot DISPUTES THE SINGLE BULLET THEORY.

And Bests Barb claims to know the evidence.

Refer to Bernice's post #61 above.

See Chaney and Jackson drop back, watch their speed, actions.

Read the quotes again. Pay attention to the time frame that is being talked about.

Watch the film clips again.

Read the quotes again.

As for you saying that Connally not reacting til the second shot disputes the SBT ... one has to wonder just what shot

your knowledge of the evidence tells you was the alleged magic bullet, SBT.

And yeah, bests, Jack. ;-)

Using the films as proof of anything is futile. We do not know what changes have been made.

All are easily impeached.

I studied all the images for 20 years, believing them all to be genuine. Then I gradually began

to find problems for the next 10 years. Since then they have fallen one by one. The last two

to fall were Altgens and Moorman. I thought both were genuine until about the early 90s.

Preparing for the Duluth conference, I did an intensive restudy of Moorman and discovered

the fakery. Now, although portions of all images are based in reality, key portions have been

obscured or deleted. So in studying images, one must decide what may be relevant and what

is not. In a court of law, none would be admissible to show what happened. But they would

be admissible to prove fakery.

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>The last two to fall were Altgens and Moorman. I thought both were genuine until about the early 90s. Preparing for the Duluth conference, I did an intensive >restudy of Moorman and discovered the fakery.

Again, I am wondering how the Moorman and Altgens pictures could possibly have been faked in the manner Jack suggests in light of them being transmitted over news wire services within hours of the assassination. Jack, are you claiming that the Zippo copy of Moorman represents the "fake" Moorman? And aren't you the one who frequently claims these photos are "worthless" as evidence, despite using Moorman in your studies to prove Zapruder film alteration?

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>The last two to fall were Altgens and Moorman. I thought both were genuine until about the early 90s. Preparing for the Duluth conference, I did an intensive >restudy of Moorman and discovered the fakery.

Again, I am wondering how the Moorman and Altgens pictures could possibly have been faked in the manner Jack suggests in light of them being transmitted over news wire services within hours of the assassination. Jack, are you claiming that the Zippo copy of Moorman represents the "fake" Moorman? And aren't you the one who frequently claims these photos are "worthless" as evidence, despite using Moorman in your studies to prove Zapruder film alteration?

The Moorman photo is provably altered. See my new posting of a few minutes ago.

The wire service copies first circulated had the pedestal area cropped out. The Weisberg

copy was obtained from AP or UP. It had no pedestal. At the time I copied it it even had

the wire service text attached, although I did not realized the significance of the cropping

back in 1982. It would take many hours to find my copies of Weisberg, but it shows no

pedestal on the wire service copies.

The provenance of the Zippo copy is not provable at this late date. I know nothing

about it other than the only print of it I have seen came from Josiah Thompson in 1982.

I CLAIM NOTHING ABOUT IT.

All images, whether film or stills, are worthless for showing what happened. However,

they are valuable to show all the chicanery of editing and retouching.

The provenance of my Moorman photos is unknown. Most of my copies came from Josiah

Thompson or Harold Weisberg in 1982. I do not know where, when or how they got them.

I have other copies of the faded ORIGINAL which Mary herself let me photocopy while she

waited. On a different occasion her husband waited while Gordon Smith made copies. The two

latter copies are the only ones with a known provenance.

Jack

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The Cancellare photo above is a blatant composite, as the shadow thrown by the figure at (viewer's) left on the south curb of Elm does not align with the direction of the shadows thrown by the various figures on the north curb (foreground). The shadow cast by the former is from a later portion of the day, or some other day.

Unless, of course, we are to believe that there were two suns at work above Dealey Plaza that day!

I've saved you the trouble and possible future embarrassment by completing a VPA for you. Please feel free to complete one for yourself to check my work.

You will notice the shadows all trace back to a single point, showing the light that created them had the same origin.

I would suggest in the strongest possible manner you find another approach. Even some dedicated professionals get all messed up when dealing with shadows as recorded by a camera. It is NOT intuitive. Lots more than meets the eye so to speak.

You are off to a terrible start and it only figures to get worse with every posting you make.

There, I've done my public service. Now do as you please.

vpa.jpg

Edited by Craig Lamson
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I've saved you the trouble and possible future embarrassment by completing a VPA for you. Please feel free to complete one for yourself to check my work.

You will notice the shadows all trace back to a single point, showing the light that created them had the same origin.

I would suggest in the strongest possible manner you find another approach. Even some dedicated professionals get all messed up when dealing with shadows as recorded by a camera. It is NOT intuitive. Lots more than meets the eye so to speak.

You are off to a terrible start and it only figures to get worse with every posting you make.

There, I've done my public service. Now do as you please.

vpa.jpg

You mean I could possibly offer a greater piece of nonsense than the above? Well, it's certainly a challenge.

What you've done is childish - you've sought to transform the sun into a lightbulb hanging directly over Dealey Plaza. By this infantile expedient, a figure or object on the southern edge of the light from the bulb would cast a shadow, yes, due south. Oh dear. Back in the real world...

Go on, have another go. Only this time, start with the sun at an angle to the horizon. Let's see if we can make progress from there.

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I've saved you the trouble and possible future embarrassment by completing a VPA for you. Please feel free to complete one for yourself to check my work.

You will notice the shadows all trace back to a single point, showing the light that created them had the same origin.

I would suggest in the strongest possible manner you find another approach. Even some dedicated professionals get all messed up when dealing with shadows as recorded by a camera. It is NOT intuitive. Lots more than meets the eye so to speak.

You are off to a terrible start and it only figures to get worse with every posting you make.

There, I've done my public service. Now do as you please.

vpa.jpg

You mean I could possibly offer a greater piece of nonsense than the above? Well, it's certainly a challenge.

What you've done is childish - you've sought to transform the sun into a lightbulb hanging directly over Dealey Plaza. By this infantile expedient, a figure or object on the southern edge of the light from the bulb would cast a shadow, yes, due south. Oh dear. Back in the real world...

Go on, have another go. Only this time, start with the sun at an angle to the horizon. Let's see if we can make progress from there.

Ok, It appears you a VPA is simply beyond you. But please, in exquisite detail explain to all of us...in a technical sense.. why VPA's fail.

And then we can decide who is childish.

I can't wait.

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The Cancellare photo above is a blatant composite, as the shadow thrown by the figure at (viewer's) left on the south curb of Elm does not align with the direction of the shadows thrown by the various figures on the north curb (foreground). The shadow cast by the former is from a later portion of the day, or some other day.

Unless, of course, we are to believe that there were two suns at work above Dealey Plaza that day!

I've saved you the trouble and possible future embarrassment by completing a VPA for you. Please feel free to complete one for yourself to check my work.

You will notice the shadows all trace back to a single point, showing the light that created them had the same origin.

I would suggest in the strongest possible manner you find another approach. Even some dedicated professionals get all messed up when dealing with shadows as recorded by a camera. It is NOT intuitive. Lots more than meets the eye so to speak.

You are off to a terrible start and it only figures to get worse with every posting you make.

There, I've done my public service. Now do as you please.

vpa.jpg

you gotta be kidding me? ROTFLMFAO ya know if I was looking to hire a photog, pointed to your website, I'd be asking for client recommendations, those whom I could verify and contact...

(looks like Len Colby work..... ) :ice

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To interrupt with a stupid question: Why is it that I don't spot an outer right MC cop riding beside JFK in the stabilized Zapruder on YouTube, or in Altgens 6? I can't see him back in the queue, though I see him catch up in Nix, during Clint Hill's sprint.

I'm assuming that the wide left onto Elm held him back? I'm going to check the Costella frames.

Also, as far as the best Zapruder available free online, to compare to threads here - what do people recommend?

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you gotta be kidding me? ROTFLMFAO ya know if I was looking to hire a photog, pointed to your website, I'd be asking for client recommendations, those whom I could verify and contact...

(looks like Len Colby work..... ) :ice

Well David, perhaps YOU can explain why a VPA is NOT a valuable tool to determine if all shadows in an image come from one source or multiple sources.

Complete detail please.

After you post your reasoning, we can all enjoy a laugh.

BTW, I'm more than happy to supply potential clients with all the references they may need.

Edited by Craig Lamson
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