Altgens

[Jack White]

I have known many news photographers. Not a one would fail to shoot a half dozen shots as the

limo rolled down Elm toward him. I refuse to believe that he shot ONLY TWO photos at this event,

numbers 6 and 7.

Please make all discussion relate to Altgens. Do not stray into extraneous material or personal

attacks. (Ha!)

Jack

[Michael Crane]

It is a fact,that I am no photographer,but If I hear multiple gunshots around me,I`m hitting the deck.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Michael Crane

[Bernice Moore]

James Altgens can be seen in Zapruder frame 345 just to the east of Malcolm Summers.

(11-22-63 eyewitness account, presented as an AP dispatch and found online) "There was a burst of noise - the second one I heard - and pieces of flesh appeared to fly from President Kennedy's car. Blood covered the whole left side of his head. Mrs. Kennedy saw what had happened to her husband. She grabbed him exclaiming, "Oh, No!". (11-22-63 announcement on WFAA that the President had been shot) “An Associated Press photographer, James Altgens…reports he saw blood on the President’s head. The AP man said he heard two shots but that he thought someone was shooting fireworks until he saw blood on the President.” (11-22-63 AP report preceding the announcement of Kennedy's death and found in the Frederick Maryland News) "AP Photographer James W. Altgens said he saw blood on the President's head. Altgens said he heard two shots but thought someone was shooting fireworks until he saw the blood on the President. Altgens said he saw no one with a gun." (11-22-63 news bulletin on WBAP, shortly after the AP report) "The Associated Press reports from Dallas that President Kennedy was shot today just as his motorcade left the downtown section. Mrs. Kennedy is said to have jumped up and grabbed her husband and cried "Oh, no!" as the motorcade sped off. Photographer J.W. Altgens of the Associated Press said that he saw blood on the President's head. The photographer said he heard two shots but thought someone was shooting fireworks until he saw the blood on the President. He said he saw no one with a gun." (11-22-63 AP dispatch, as reprinted in Cover-Up) “At first I thought the shots came from the opposite side of the street. I ran over there to see if I could get some pictures...I did not know until later where the shots came from." (5-24-64 article in the New York Herald-Tribune) "I was about 30 feet in front of the President's limousine on Mrs. Kennedy's side. I remember hearing what I thought was a firecracker at the instant I snapped the picture. I was going to make another picture, the one I was really set up for, when I realized what had happened and I froze, aghast." (6-5-64 FBI report, CD 1088 p.1-6) “at about the instant he snapped the picture, he heard a burst of noise which he thought was firecrackers… he does not know how many of these reports he heard…After taking the above photograph…he heard another report which he recognized as a gunshot. He said the bullet struck President Kennedy on the right side of his head and the impact knocked the President forward. Altgens stated pieces of flesh, blood, and bones appeared to fly from the right side of the President’s head and pass in front of Mrs. Kennedy to the left of the Presidential limousine. Altgens stated Mrs. Kennedy grabbed the President and Altgens heard her exclaim “Oh, no!” as the president slumped into her lap. Altgens said he also observed blood on the left side of the President’s head and face.” (7-22-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 7H517-525) “I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a firecracker—I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot—the shot was just a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much—of course—at that time I figured it was nothing more than a firecracker, because from my position down here the sound was not of such volume that it would indicate to me it was a high velocity rifle…it sounded like it was coming up from behind the car from my position—I mean the first shot, and being fireworks—who counts fireworks explosions? I wasn’t keeping track of the number of pops that took place, but I could vouch for number 1 and I can vouch for the last shot, but I can not tell you how many shots were in between. There was not another shot after the President was struck in the head.” (on the head shot) “up to that time I didn’t know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture I was hoping to make.”

(Interview with CBS broadcast 6-26-67) “As I was getting ready to make some pictures why I heard this noise-- I thought it was a firecracker explosion—but I just went ahead and made the picture which shows the President right after he was struck by a bullet, struck in the neck, the first shot, and this was the picture that the Warren Report later fixed as being made two seconds after the shot was fired. And as they got in close to me, I was prepared to make the picture—I had my camera about at eye level—that’s when the President was shot in the head. And I do know that the President was still in an upright position, tilted, favoring Mrs. Kennedy. And at the time that he was struck by this blow to the head, it was so obvious that it came from behind. It had to come from behind because it caused him to bolt forward, dislodging him from this depression in the seat cushion, and already favoring Mrs. Kennedy, he automatically fell in that direction.” (No More Silence, p.41-59, published 1998) “I only recall the President hit once that I can vouch for because that first camera shot…made any definite conclusion uncertain. But this particular one where he was hit, the head shot, was obvious to everyone that it was a shooting, not fireworks. I don’t know how many shots there were. If I were guessing, I would figure that was probably the third shot. In other words, he was hit when I was taking the picture, and the fatal shot should have been somewhere around the third shot, and that should have been the last…The tissue, perhaps bone, a lot of fragments, all came my way…But the majority of the mass that was coming from his head came directly like a straight shot out my way on to the left in a straight line. When he fell over into her lap, the blood was on the left side of his face. There was no blood on the right hand side which suggested to me that the wound was more to the left than it was to the right.”

[David Andrews]

Devil's Advocate: Altgens was disturbed by the "fireworks," then rattled by the wound effects. No knock on him or anyone, but arguably not a combat vet (US Coast Guard), and, to my limited knowledge, never a combat photographer.

Altgens (from above): "But the majority of the mass that was coming from his head came directly like a straight shot out my way on to the left in a straight line. When he fell over into her lap, the blood was on the left side of his face. There was no blood on the right hand side which suggested to me that the wound was more to the left than it was to the right.”

More Devil's Advocate: As JFK was propelled backward, blood from the rearward "halo" (altered in Zapruder) that struck the leftward motorcycles fell back onto the left of his face. Is any visible on Jackie's clothing in the later stills?

+++

NB, notice how very few photos or x-rays (none of the latter available) there are of the left side of JFK's face post mortem or as the shots were fired. (Devil's Advocate now retired.)

Edited February 5, 2010 by David Andrews

[Bernice Moore]

NB, notice how very few photos or x-rays (none of the latter available) there are of the left side of JFK's face post mortem or as the shots were fired. (Devil's Advocate now retired.)

dAVID THERE ARE NO AUTOPSY PHOTOS OF THE LEFT SIDE AS FAR AS I KNOW..TXS ..B

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, it sounded like it was coming up from behind the car from my position--I mean the first shot, and being fireworks--who counts fireworks explosions? I wasn't keeping track of the number of pops that took place, but I could vouch for No. 1, and I can vouch for the last shot, but I cannot tell you how many shots were in between. There was not another shot fired after the President was struck in the head. That was the last shot--that much I will say with a great degree of certainty.

Mr. LIEBELER - What makes you so certain of that, Mr. Altgens?

Mr. ALTGENS - Because, having heard these shots and then having seen the damage that was done on this shot to the President's head, I was aware at that time that shooting was taking place and there was not a shot--I looked--I looked because I knew the shot had to come from either over here, if it were close range, or had to come from a high-powered rifle.

Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z347.jpg

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm

Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; and if I had a picture I could probably show you exactly where I was standing. I did show it to Agent Switzer, if that would be of any help to you.

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; I would like to locate that spot. I show you Exhibit No. 354, which is an aerial view of the area that we have been discussing.

Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.

Mr. LIEBELER - You have indicated a spot along the side of Elm Street which I have marked with a No. 3; is that correct?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Is that approximately where you were standing?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, when you took the picture of the caravan turning from Main Street to the right on Houston Street, you then ran across this Dealey Plaza?

Mr. ALTGENS - Down this way; yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Along the lawn part.

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - To the point marked No. 3 on Commission Exhibit No. 354?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol16_0487a.htm

[Bernice Moore]

JACK THESE WERE FROM JOHN WOODS...the second one is too big i will be back...b

QUOTE

There are at least two images attributed to Altgens which he disavowed.

Most notably the one showing Zapruder and Sitzman leaving the pedestal

I'd like to see a citation for this claim. Even if true it was probably a case of mistaken atribution. If the conspirators wanted to fake a photo why atribute it to a known photographer who wasn't in on the plot. There was another photo of 'Mr. Z' and Stizman near the pedestal. Any evidence that eithe rof those were faked?

Len,

I work on this alleged film since the 1970's and have concluded that two out-focus slides were

exposed, developed by the Kodak Company and than disappeared. I have made several efforts

to obtain the original slides via the inidivual who may have these slides.

john

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

Shortcut to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=126&t=5708

for now b..

Edited February 5, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

b from john woods altgens unpublished...b

Edited February 5, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Jack White]

Devil's Advocate: Altgens was disturbed by the "fireworks," then rattled by the wound effects. No knock on him or anyone, but arguably not a combat vet (US Coast Guard), and, to my limited knowledge, never a combat photographer.

Altgens (from above): "But the majority of the mass that was coming from his head came directly like a straight shot out my way on to the left in a straight line. When he fell over into her lap, the blood was on the left side of his face. There was no blood on the right hand side which suggested to me that the wound was more to the left than it was to the right.”

More Devil's Advocate: As JFK was propelled backward, blood from the rearward "halo" (altered in Zapruder) that struck the leftward motorcycles fell back onto the left of his face. Is any visible on Jackie's clothing in the later stills?

+++

NB, notice how very few photos or x-rays (none of the latter available) there are of the left side of JFK's face post mortem or as the shots were fired. (Devil's Advocate now retired.)

Thanks, David. I should comment (devil's advocate) that witnesses sometimes make confusing

statements about right and left. Did he mean the PRESIDENT'S LEFT, or his (ALTGENS) LEFT?

I myself do that. I may say "the American flag is on the left side of the stage". But correctly,

the flag is on the RIGHT side of the stage, facing out from the stage. (see US flag code)

Jack

[Jack White]

JACK THESE WERE FROM JOHN WOODS...the second one is too big i will be back...b

QUOTE

There are at least two images attributed to Altgens which he disavowed.

Most notably the one showing Zapruder and Sitzman leaving the pedestal

I'd like to see a citation for this claim. Even if true it was probably a case of mistaken atribution. If the conspirators wanted to fake a photo why atribute it to a known photographer who wasn't in on the plot. There was another photo of 'Mr. Z' and Stizman near the pedestal. Any evidence that eithe rof those were faked?

Len,

I work on this alleged film since the 1970's and have concluded that two out-focus slides were

exposed, developed by the Kodak Company and than disappeared. I have made several efforts

to obtain the original slides via the inidivual who may have these slides.

john

The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

Shortcut to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=126&t=5708

for now b..

Thanks, Bernice. AS A LONGTIME PHOTOGRAPHER, let me observe that all of the images except the first two

are CUT APART! No photographer I know of EVER CUTS 35MM NEGS INTO SINGLE FRAMES. Single frames

are extremely difficult to handle in an enlarger negative carrier. Photographers almost universally cut the

film into strips of SIX. To me, this is similar to splices in the Zfilm...no good reason for doing it. VERY

SUSPICIOUS.

Jack

[Bernice Moore]

b..

[Jack White]

b from john woods altgens unpublished...b

Bernice...the second link did not work. These other Altgens shots have INTERESTING

IMPLICATIONS!!!!!!

Jack

[Bernice Moore]

b from john woods altgens unpublished...b

Bernice...the second link did not work. These other Altgens shots have INTERESTING

IMPLICATIONS!!!!!!

Jack

hi jack it is of the same frames i tried to make it smaller and did but it still led to the paint program i did something wrong..they are the same..sorry bout that...if you need john's em ad let me know...b

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/17/us/james...agewanted=print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 17, 1995

James Altgens, Photographer at Kennedy Assassination, Dies at 76

By ERIC PACE

James W. Altgens, a longtime Associated Press staff member known for his photograph of the anguished Jacqueline Kennedy, seconds after her husband's assassination, clambering onto the back of their car while a Secret Service agent moved to her aid, was found dead on Tuesday in his home in Dallas. He was 76.

Mr. Altgens, who was retired, and his wife, Clara, 73, were both found dead at the home, The Associated Press reported. The Dallas Morning News reported on Friday that relatives said the couple had been suffering from the flu but that the police were looking into the possibility that they had died of carbon monoxide poisoning from a defective furnace.

Mr. Altgens, known as Ike, was photographing President Kennedy's motorcade at Dealey Plaza, in downtown Dallas, on Nov. 22, 1963. After taking photographs of the immediate aftermath of the assassination, he telephoned to his news agency and was the first to tell it that the President had been hit by gunfire and gravely wounded. The agency transmitted a news bulletin about the shooting that reported that Mr. Altgens had said he thought the noise was fireworks until he spied blood on the President.

In a dispatch that Mr. Altgens wrote for the agency later that day, he said: "There was a burst of noise, the second one I heard, and pieces of flesh appeared to fly from President Kennedy's car. Blood covered the whole left side of his head. Mrs. Kennedy saw what had happened to her husband. She grabbed him, exclaiming, 'Oh, no!' "

The Associated Press, in its book on the assassination, "The Torch is Passed . . ." which was published soon afterward, republished Mr. Altgens's photograph of the First Lady and the agent with a caption saying it "shows Secret Service Agent Clint Hill leaping toward Mrs. Kennedy as she desperately moves for help in the first moment of horror."

Mr. Altgens was born and reared in Dallas and went to work for the Associated Press in 1938, when he was 19. He retired in 1988.

Mrs. Altgens, the former Clara B. Halliburton, is survived by two sisters, Myrtis Grant and Gladys Gleaves, both of Dallas.

Photos: James W. Altgens's photograph of Jacqueline Kennedy being aidedby a Secret Service agent, Clint Hill, moments after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dealey Plaza in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. (Associated Press; Associated Press, 1963)

•Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company

•Home

[Bernice Moore]

GARY SHAW JOHN STOCKWELL VIDEO ALT...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdR9-6gcsM

altgens comes into the discussion...b

Edited February 5, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12445

tom purvis links to w/c maps and info..re altgens .txs

Edited February 5, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Jack White]

I posted this in another thread, but it is more appropriate thread.

Not a single person commented on it. Wonder why?

Jack