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Jack, let's try an experiment...


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Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

Years ago we were able to confirm exactly what Todd said.

David Mantik, always a gentleman, not only let Todd look through the eyepiece of their transit after it had been set up, he also took meticulous measurements. Being a gentleman, he sent me those measurements and they confirm exactly what Todd said.

Mantik’s measurements show that the line-of-sight they measured that day with the transit crossed the south curb of Elm Street at a height of 48.25 inches. This gave us something precise to work with. We went to Dealey Plaza, found Moorman’s approximate position and set up the camera on the curb exactly 48" above the top of the curb. Here is the resulting photograph:

004_44800inabovecurbfromMoormanp-1.jpg

It shows that when you do what they did you end up with a photo lining up the top left corner of the Zapruder pedestal with the bottom right corner of the window beyond. In other words, all they did was perform a stunt. As Todd pointed out, they made no allowance for the “gap” present in the Moorman photo but simply set up their transit as if there weren’t any gap.

What they did is as irrelevant as if the referees at the Superbowl set out to determine if a first down had been made by carefully measuring the width of the field at the point the last play ended. They pulled a PR stunt and have been advertizing it as “science” ever since. When people refer to “assassinated science” it is this sort of nonsense they are referring to.

Josiah Thompson

Your photo is totally wrong! You did not follow my instructions for finding the line of sight.

You lined up the CORNER of the pedestal with the CORNER of the window. Our experiment

has ALWAYS IGNORED THE CORNERS! Our experiment uses the EDGES of the pedestal

and window. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO COMPREHEND? I have NEVER said anything about

using the corners. I have always referred to a CROSS (+). The Moorman photo has the

GAP that is so precious to you, but the gap is irrelevant. It is of no use because it is not

a part of the CROSS. Why you persist in saying our experiment used the CORNERS I do

not know, BUT IT IS BLATANTLY FALSE! And you insist that GREAT PRECISION is required.

It is not. I have done the experiment dozens of times. You have not. The viewpoint can

be off by several inches AND IS STILL MUCH TOO LOW.

Jack.... they've no choice, they have to dance around this experiment of old... and many here are amazed this nonsense is coming from the guy that penned Six Seconds in Dallas... however it's entirely in keeping with the lone nut-xxxxx minions that populate this board....

And remember nearly ALL these guys stopped doing research years ago (if in fact, they did ANY)... and then along came Oliver Stones' JFK and about 100 books (with more film, documentaries, and books to come). This board is the last place the WCR wingnut-preservers of the Dealey Plaza Film/Photo History are mounting a defense.

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Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

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Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

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How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

Great, you took lots of photos. Can you please show us the one you took looking through the transit so we can judge for ourself the alignment you ended up with?

Thanks you.

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Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

Regardless of Todd's alleged "write-up" of the experiment by Fetzer and Mantik,

I suggest that anyone wanting to know about the experiment as done by them

go to:

http://www.jfkresearch.com/Moorman/

There is a complete and accurate "write-up".

Jack

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Your photo is totally wrong! You did not follow my instructions for finding the line of sight.

You lined up the CORNER of the pedestal with the CORNER of the window. Our experiment

has ALWAYS IGNORED THE CORNERS! Our experiment uses the EDGES of the pedestal

and window. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO COMPREHEND? I have NEVER said anything about

using the corners. I have always referred to a CROSS (+). The Moorman photo has the

GAP that is so precious to you, but the gap is irrelevant. It is of no use because it is not

a part of the CROSS. Why you persist in saying our experiment used the CORNERS I do

not know, BUT IT IS BLATANTLY FALSE! And you insist that GREAT PRECISION is required.

It is not. I have done the experiment dozens of times. You have not. The viewpoint can

be off by several inches AND IS STILL MUCH TOO LOW.

This composite shows how much Thompson was off of the line of sight (red lines).

The smaller pix compare with the image Mantik used to find the LOS, plus the

interesting comparison of the HEIGHT of "Zapruder" and the unknown man on the

pedestal.

Jack, I'm sure you understand this completely, since it is your experiment after all, but the"gap"created by the notch is meaningless IN REGARDS to the height of Moormans camera. You can't line up your IMAGINARY line of the bottom of the window and the top of the pedestal (imaginary because these lines DONT MATCH UP see below). THATS the gap that matters and you failed to include it in the Jack White LOS. How in the world do you account for this?

Thanks in advance for your well considered answer.

badgeman.jpg

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Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

Jack,

I said I wrote up the “experience”…my experience. I never said I wrote up the “experiment” .

Good God your reading comprehension is bad!

What was I doing there? You guys posted the fact that you were doing the experiment ahead of time on the DellaRossa Forum including the date and time you were going to be and invited anyone to attend. That day happened to be the last day of a week-long trip I had already planned to be taking so I made it a point to show up. As I recall a few others from the DellaRossa Forum showed up as well, one by the name of Tony Cummings (sp?)

Good God your memory is bad!

Todd

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Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

What's interesting, David, is how bad Jack's memory of all of this is, and how little your posts contribute to the discussion.

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Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

What's interesting, David, is how bad Jack's memory of all of this is, and how little your posts contribute to the discussion.

considering the "heaveyweights of lone nut persuasion" that post here (you, our very own WENDY'S nutter-poster included), the level of nutter argument on this forum is positively atrocious... The level of inept lone nut posts here, stunning... it's almost like Dr. Thompson drags himself out of retirement, then continually tries to prop you xxxxx guys up.... yet, none of you can get a simple, cogent argument underway. So, what happened to the nutter-xxxxx varsity? Kinda like a Laurel & Hardy slapstick comedy filmed at 18.3 fps, now that too is up for debate what with a "windup" camera and all!

btw... one Ben Holmes (at acj the uncensored USENET/Google forum) is still (3 years now) waiting for you, Todd Vaughan, to dig some evidence out of that mysterious file place you store your, LMFAO, JFK research findings [sic].... :ice as you were!

Edited by David G. Healy
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Todd said this........

Jack,

I said I wrote up the “experience”…my experience. I never said I wrote up the “experiment” .

Good God your reading comprehension is bad!

What was I doing there? You guys posted the fact that you were doing the experiment ahead of time on the DellaRossa Forum including the date and time you were going to be and invited anyone to attend. That day happened to be the last day of a week-long trip I had already planned to be taking so I made it a point to show up. As I recall a few others from the DellaRossa Forum showed up as well, one by the name of Tony Cummings (sp?)

Good God your memory is bad!

Todd

I didn't want to get into this or any other alteration vs non-alteration discussion. My JFK areas of study are in different areas. I also think a lot of both Jack and Fetzer, although don't always agree with them or anyone else for that matter. On the other hand I have nothing against Todd either.... even though I am a CT. However...."right is right" and I feel compelled to make a reply. I just read all these controversial threads and for the most part don't actually comprehened them.

I have been a fence sitter on the alteration controversy....but am becoming more inclined to believe skulldgerry did occur.

However, what I posted above by Todd, is exactly as I also recall. I was also a member of DellaRosa's forum at that time and do recall the discussions regarding that Moorman in the Street Study. It was neither secret nor private and had been fully pre-discussed on the forum. Also there were a few LNs also on that forum and they were also invited to the study at DP that day...as well as the Josiah group. As it turned out, Todd was the only one of either group that did show up.

I do not know what all occurred at DP on that day, only what was later discussed on that forum. I did get the impression that Todd had been treated a bit shabby although Have no idea if Jack had previously met him or not. In fact, on the forum, Jim Fetzer kept making bad remarks as to Todd being there. That just did not hit me right and (then) just as now, I had to speak up for Todd. I don't recall my exact words or even if Todd recalls that I did so.....I mentioned that he had been invited and that after all, he was the only one that actually did show up. although he did thank me. With that...the discussion ended.

But before anyone starts getting all carried away....I don't blieve for a minute that Jack is fibbing. I belive it to be one of a faulty memory, as we all have from time to time!

Dixie

Edited by Dixie Dea
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Your photo is totally wrong! You did not follow my instructions for finding the line of sight.

You lined up the CORNER of the pedestal with the CORNER of the window. Our experiment

has ALWAYS IGNORED THE CORNERS! Our experiment uses the EDGES of the pedestal

and window. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO COMPREHEND? I have NEVER said anything about

using the corners. I have always referred to a CROSS (+). The Moorman photo has the

GAP that is so precious to you, but the gap is irrelevant. It is of no use because it is not

a part of the CROSS. Why you persist in saying our experiment used the CORNERS I do

not know, BUT IT IS BLATANTLY FALSE! And you insist that GREAT PRECISION is required.

It is not. I have done the experiment dozens of times. You have not. The viewpoint can

be off by several inches AND IS STILL MUCH TOO LOW.

Why do I speak of points lining up? Why do I speak of corners lining up? Because you spoke of points, Jack, when you first introduced your claim in MIDP : “I discovered a point within the photo that aligned 2 widely disparate points such that their alignment established that unique line-of-sight.” Remember?

You are flapping your arms and making a huge fuss about nothing. Why? Because you and Fetzer put together a PR scam and now you’ve been caught at it. You hope that by dumping irrelevancies into the debate you can deflect attention. You can’t.

Here’s your illustration:

post-667-1265658999-48inchabovesout.jpg

You are right about that less than an inch detent at the top of the pedestal. That detent makes a small difference in where the line-of-sight is placed in the horizontal (or right/left) plane. So what? The critical point concerns the vertical (or up/down) plane. Here again is your illustration from MIDP:

RedlinesandwithoutGAPcircled.jpg

The circled vertical GAP is what the dispute is about. You can wave your arms all about but you can’t deny that. The difference between lining up the points (or, if you want, the lines) you specify and taking into account the vertical part of the gap is a difference of about six inches in the vertical position of Moorman’s camera. Aligning the points or lines without taking into consideration the vertical gap, puts her camera too low. Taking the vertical gap into consideration places the camera right where it is shown to be in the Zapruder film.

Anyone can go to Dealey Plaza, line up the two points (or lines if you wish) and say, “Aha! See we lined up the points (or lines)!” This could be done today or tomorrow or six years ago. It is easy to do and it proves absolutely nothing. The question is: Do those points or lines line-up in the Moorman photo? The answer, as we’ve seen is, no.

So the only test that makes any sense is to replicate the Moorman photo including the GAP and see where that line-of-sight crosses the curb. If you do that, it turns out that the line-of-sight crosses curb at a height of somewhat over 54 inches. The people with the transit have been claiming for years that this is what they did but we know it isn’t. Why? Because Todd Vaughan looked through that transit after it was set up and told them they had not taken into account the gap. “The fact is that after looking through the transit,” pointed out Vaughan, “I spoke with Dr. Mantik about the alignment being very close horizontally but off vertically because it did not account for the gap. After that I also talked to both you and Fetzer.” In addition, we have Mantik’s meticulous notes that show the height of their line-of-sight over the curb. It was 48.25 inches, just the height you would expect if they had ignored the gap and lined up the two points or lines.

Things have come together here to expose nothing less than a scam that you and Fetzer put together. Mantik was obviously not part of the scam. Hence, your mistake was letting someone participate who was not part of it. He let Todd Vaughan look through the transit and gave me his notes. Otherwise, we could not prove what you did. You did something truly outrageous to save face. Why not finally admit it and let us move on? Is it so important never to be proven wrong?

Josiah Thompson

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And as far as the guy standing on the pedestal? He's standing on the edge, (as well as upright) It means nothing except as an other example of obfuscation (deliberate or ignorant). The inverse square law is ignored (as it is in the other height analysis').

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And as far as the guy standing on the pedestal? He's standing on the edge, (as well as upright) It means nothing except as an other example of obfuscation (deliberate or ignorant). The inverse square law is ignored (as it is in the other height analysis').

You mean Zapruder was NOT standing on the front edge of the pedestal?

Are you aware that the TOP of the pedestal is 30x46 inches and that with

two people on top, the front person MUST stand at the front edge. Obviously

you have never been atop the pedestal.

The attachment shows how really small the top of the pedestal is.

post-667-1265686148_thumb.jpg

Edited by Jack White
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Uf course Zapruder wasn't standing on the edge. You can't see the feet nor the full size of the bag from Moormans perspective. They were close together, and Costellas got a fat bum to boot (pun intended). 46" is about 1 meter and 20cm. Perhaps I should have said inverse inverse square law from a perspective perspective. Tho, the inverse square law as it applies to photography is relevant in other issues as well such as illumination and detail.

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