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A shot fired through the front of the windshield- To Barb and Jerry


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Hi Martin

Thanks for the reply. I'm wondering if I am looking at the right thing that we are calling the spiral nebula ? What I thought was it (and could be confused for a pocket on the dress of a spectator behind) is definitely on the white dress of lady 9.

I can't see anything of Lady 8 that could be far enough to the right (as we look) that could be part of the alleged hole in the windshield...

Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing though !

David

David, Lady 8 is under inspection because she is the one directly behind JFK's head.

lady8compo.jpg

Lady 8 is wearing something unusual. A pocket below here dress.

This is the shape according to Jerry what we see in Altgens.

croftlady8.jpg

The shape of this bright part is almost square we have to keep in mind.

I'am sure to read it also from Anthony Marsh but can't it find here now just in hurry. I will update my post as long as i find it.

Can you see it now?

Martin

Hi Martin,

The clapping lady in the white blouse, blue skirt ... by the almost square bright spot you are talking about, are you referring to the white purse she has hanging down in front of her skirt on her right, just below her elbow, at about hip level covering up her tummy on that side?

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Jack,

How can you discount the throat wound? Egad! I published the Parkland press conference

transcript in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998) along with Charles Crenshaw's diagrams of

the throat before and after the tracheostomy incision. You have lost track of the evidence

on this issue. Tom Wicker even reported it in his article in The New York Times!

Go back to that book, Jack, and review page 15, page 414, and especially pages 419-427.

Jim

EXCELLENT, Doug. I am with you! There WAS a hole. It very likely came from the south knoll.

The government hid the hole and tried to produce windshields with cracks but no hole.

I agree with ALL of your research, but am not 100 percent sure that the windshield bullet was

the throat bullet, because there is no evidence to support a bullet in the throat...since none

(that we know of) was found.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Can you see it too Josiah?

Todd, thank you for your sharp eye and your compliment. :)

Thank god there are people out there whom realize it.

Martin

I think we're getting real close to something here, Martin. You guys are really making great progress. I wonder what Duncan might say about this.

Josiah Thompson

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Guest James H. Fetzer

I can't believe that anyone would mistake the through-and-through hole in the windshield for some nebulous feature of a woman in the distance. Perhaps Jack could repost the images he posted for me before when Josiah was taking a beating on this. I love it how they come back and back and back again--in a determined effort to wear down the opposition, as though they had all the time in the world to obfuscate and mislead and obscure! I sense desperation in the air. And look how the sides line up! Why am I not surprised? Doug laid out the case, where the witnesses who saw the hole and spoke and wrote about it carry the most weight, especially when their testimony is supported by photographic evidence. And it was also confirmed by the official at Ford who actually replaced it! It's amazing to witness one of the ops taking place before your very eyes--to convince a target audience that black is white, that false is true, that there was no hole when there was a hole! You know you're being taken for a ride when the master myth-maker assures you that the photographic evidence is the most reliable, just as he has about the Zapruder film! Stunning stuff!

Can you see it too Josiah?

Todd, thank you for your sharp eye and your compliment. :)

Thank god there are people out there whom realize it.

Martin

I think we're getting real close to something here, Martin. You guys are really making great progress. I wonder what Duncan might say about this.

Josiah Thompson

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Jack,

How can you discount the throat wound? Egad! I published the Parkland press conference

transcript in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998) along with Charles Crenshaw's diagrams of

the throat before and after the tracheostomy incision. You have lost track of the evidence

on this issue. Tom Wicker even reported it in his article in The New York Times!

Go back to that book, Jack, and review page 15, page 414, and especially pages 419-427.

Jim

EXCELLENT, Doug. I am with you! There WAS a hole. It very likely came from the south knoll.

The government hid the hole and tried to produce windshields with cracks but no hole.

I agree with ALL of your research, but am not 100 percent sure that the windshield bullet was

the throat bullet, because there is no evidence to support a bullet in the throat...since none

(that we know of) was found.

Jack

Jim...you misread my message. What I said was that NO BULLET WAS FOUND to account for the

throat wound...therefore no evidence is traceable to the windshield hole. Reread what I wrote.

I think it is clear that I agree with Doug...except there is NO PROOF of the windshield bullet

causing the throat wound. Do you disagree?

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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Hi Martin

Thanks for the reply. I'm wondering if I am looking at the right thing that we are calling the spiral nebula ? What I thought was it (and could be confused for a pocket on the dress of a spectator behind) is definitely on the white dress of lady 9.

I can't see anything of Lady 8 that could be far enough to the right (as we look) that could be part of the alleged hole in the windshield...

Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing though !

David

David, Lady 8 is under inspection because she is the one directly behind JFK's head.

lady8compo.jpg

Lady 8 is wearing something unusual. A pocket below here dress.

This is the shape according to Jerry what we see in Altgens.

croftlady8.jpg

The shape of this bright part is almost square we have to keep in mind.

I'am sure to read it also from Anthony Marsh but can't it find here now just in hurry. I will update my post as long as i find it.

Can you see it now?

Martin

Hi Martin,

The clapping lady in the white blouse, blue skirt ... by the almost square bright spot you are talking about, are you referring to the white purse she has hanging down in front of her skirt on her right, just below her elbow, at about hip level covering up her tummy on that side?

Bests,

Barb :-)

This is all nonsense. The spiral nebula is NOT part of some spectator in the background.

Indeed, what I see is that it is superimposed on the head of a small Negro boy spectator.

I do not see it as a part of any dress. It distinctly is a part of the windshield.

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

He had a bullet wound in the front of his throat. We know that. There was a hole in the

windshield. We also know that. The hole in the windshield and the wound in his throat

are two points that define a line. We know that, too. The line in this case carries us to

the above ground sewer opening on the south end of the Triple Overpass. And we know

that, too. The likelihood of an hypothesis given the evidence is equal to the probability

of the evidence if the hypothesis were true. If the shot was fired from the above ground

sewer opening on the south end of the Triple Overpass, there is a hit probability that it

would have passed through the windshield on that very trajectory, assuming that the

shooter--whom I suspect to have been Malcolm "Mac" Wallace--was proficient with a

rifle. No other location can account for that alignment. I don't think it is debatable.

No other location works. It's likelihood is one, while others have the likelihood zero.

Please post those earlier pages from MURDER and HOAX, if it's not too much trouble.

The dark hole at the center of the white spiral nebula is being obscured. We need to

step back and reconsider the evidence. Page 436 of HOAX is what I am looking for.

It may only be in the third printing, however. Perhaps Bernice can lend a hand.

Jack,

How can you discount the throat wound? Egad! I published the Parkland press conference

transcript in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998) along with Charles Crenshaw's diagrams of

the throat before and after the tracheostomy incision. You have lost track of the evidence

on this issue. Tom Wicker even reported it in his article in The New York Times!

Go back to that book, Jack, and review page 15, page 414, and especially pages 419-427.

Jim

EXCELLENT, Doug. I am with you! There WAS a hole. It very likely came from the south knoll.

The government hid the hole and tried to produce windshields with cracks but no hole.

I agree with ALL of your research, but am not 100 percent sure that the windshield bullet was

the throat bullet, because there is no evidence to support a bullet in the throat...since none

(that we know of) was found.

Jack

Jim...you misread my message. What I said was that NO BULLET WAS FOUND to account for the

throat wound...therefore no evidence is traceable to the windshield hole. Reread what I wrote.

I think it is clear that I agree with Doug...except there is NO PROOF of the windshield bullet

causing the throat wound. Do you disagree?

Jack

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He had a bullet wound in the front of his throat. We know that. There was a hole in the

windshield. We also know that. The hole in the windshield and the wound in his throat

are two points that define a line. We know that, too. The line in this case carries us to

the above ground sewer opening on the south end of the Triple Overpass. And we know

that, too. The likelihood of an hypothesis given the evidence is equal to the probability

of the evidence if the hypothesis were true. If the shot was fired from the above ground

sewer opening on the south end of the Triple Overpass, there is a hit probability that it

would have passed through the windshield on that very trajectory, assuming that the

shooter--whom I suspect to have been Malcolm "Mac" Wallace--was proficient with a

rifle. No other location can account for that alignment. I don't think it is debatable.

No other location works. It's likelihood is one, while others have the likelihood zero.

Please post those earlier pages from MURDER and HOAX, if it's not too much trouble.

The dark hole at the center of the white spiral nebula is being obscured. We need to

step back and reconsider the evidence. Page 436 of HOAX is what I am looking for.

It may only be in the third printing, however. Perhaps Bernice can lend a hand.

Jack,

How can you discount the throat wound? Egad! I published the Parkland press conference

transcript in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998) along with Charles Crenshaw's diagrams of

the throat before and after the tracheostomy incision. You have lost track of the evidence

on this issue. Tom Wicker even reported it in his article in The New York Times!

Go back to that book, Jack, and review page 15, page 414, and especially pages 419-427.

Jim

EXCELLENT, Doug. I am with you! There WAS a hole. It very likely came from the south knoll.

The government hid the hole and tried to produce windshields with cracks but no hole.

I agree with ALL of your research, but am not 100 percent sure that the windshield bullet was

the throat bullet, because there is no evidence to support a bullet in the throat...since none

(that we know of) was found.

Jack

Jim...you misread my message. What I said was that NO BULLET WAS FOUND to account for the

throat wound...therefore no evidence is traceable to the windshield hole. Reread what I wrote.

I think it is clear that I agree with Doug...except there is NO PROOF of the windshield bullet

causing the throat wound. Do you disagree?

Jack

Jim...you misread me again. Read a little more slowly. I do not disagree with Doug. I do not

disagree with you or your hypothesis. I am merely saying THERE IS NO PROOF OF A BULLET

BEING FOUND IN THE THROAT WHICH COULD HAVE COME THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD.

There is a difference between PROOF and a HYPOTHESIS. We are in agreement, but you

seem to be misreading what I say.

Concerning the Spiral Nebula...Here is a quick image (I am not on my regular computer

because my wife is having a bridge party in the house and I am in exile out back) that

shows the nebula hole superimposed, in my opinion, on top of the head of a small black

boy by the curb.

Oh, darn...this older computer out back uses Explorer 6, and does not seem to support

attaching images. (or I can't remember how) .I will post the image later...after the party

in the house is over. Ladies are playing bridge in the room where my computer is. Later.

Jack

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Can you see it too Josiah?

Todd, thank you for your sharp eye and your compliment. :)

Thank god there are people out there whom realize it.

Martin

Maybe this will help, Martin. It's an enlargement from the original Altgens #6 negative that was done in 1967. It's about as clear as anything I've seen and matches what Pamela got from an Archives copy.

Altgens6extremeclose-up.jpg

The light area containing the socalled "spiral nebula" has a dark area very near it. This would be what you would get with the dark green surrounding the light area that Barb thought might be a "purse" being held by Lady #8. The white area surronded by green would show up in Altgens from a very different angle... nearly in profile. This looks better and better, Martin. You may have the answer.

Doug Weldon started this thread but has uttered not a peep when asked if he believes Altgens #6 shows a bullet hole in the windshield. What do you think, Doug? Has Martin worked us to the answer concerning the true nature of the socalled "spiral nebula?"

Josiah Thompson

Edited by Josiah Thompson
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He had a bullet wound in the front of his throat. We know that. There was a hole in the

windshield. We also know that. The hole in the windshield and the wound in his throat

are two points that define a line. We know that, too. The line in this case carries us to

the above ground sewer opening on the south end of the Triple Overpass. And we know

that, too. The likelihood of an hypothesis given the evidence is equal to the probability

of the evidence if the hypothesis were true. If the shot was fired from the above ground

sewer opening on the south end of the Triple Overpass, there is a hit probability that it

would have passed through the windshield on that very trajectory, assuming that the

shooter--whom I suspect to have been Malcolm "Mac" Wallace--was proficient with a

rifle. No other location can account for that alignment. I don't think it is debatable.

No other location works. It's likelihood is one, while others have the likelihood zero.

Please post those earlier pages from MURDER and HOAX, if it's not too much trouble.

The dark hole at the center of the white spiral nebula is being obscured. We need to

step back and reconsider the evidence. Page 436 of HOAX is what I am looking for.

It may only be in the third printing, however. Perhaps Bernice can lend a hand.

Jack,

How can you discount the throat wound? Egad! I published the Parkland press conference

transcript in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998) along with Charles Crenshaw's diagrams of

the throat before and after the tracheostomy incision. You have lost track of the evidence

on this issue. Tom Wicker even reported it in his article in The New York Times!

Go back to that book, Jack, and review page 15, page 414, and especially pages 419-427.

Jim

EXCELLENT, Doug. I am with you! There WAS a hole. It very likely came from the south knoll.

The government hid the hole and tried to produce windshields with cracks but no hole.

I agree with ALL of your research, but am not 100 percent sure that the windshield bullet was

the throat bullet, because there is no evidence to support a bullet in the throat...since none

(that we know of) was found.

Jack

Jim...you misread my message. What I said was that NO BULLET WAS FOUND to account for the

throat wound...therefore no evidence is traceable to the windshield hole. Reread what I wrote.

I think it is clear that I agree with Doug...except there is NO PROOF of the windshield bullet

causing the throat wound. Do you disagree?

Jack

Jim...you misread me again. Read a little more slowly. I do not disagree with Doug. I do not

disagree with you or your hypothesis. I am merely saying THERE IS NO PROOF OF A BULLET

BEING FOUND IN THE THROAT WHICH COULD HAVE COME THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD.

There is a difference between PROOF and a HYPOTHESIS. We are in agreement, but you

seem to be misreading what I say.

Concerning the Spiral Nebula...Here is a quick image (I am not on my regular computer

because my wife is having a bridge party in the house and I am in exile out back) that

shows the nebula hole superimposed, in my opinion, on top of the head of a small black

boy by the curb.

Oh, darn...this older computer out back uses Explorer 6, and does not seem to support

attaching images. (or I can't remember how) .I will post the image later...after the party

in the house is over. Ladies are playing bridge in the room where my computer is. Later.

Jack

I am back from exile. Here is how I see the hole in the windshield in Altgens.

Jack

post-667-1266965356_thumb.jpg

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Can you see it too Josiah?

Todd, thank you for your sharp eye and your compliment. :)

Thank god there are people out there whom realize it.

Martin

Maybe this will help, Martin. It's an enlargement from the original Altgens #6 negative that was done in 1967. It's about as clear as anything I've seen and matches what Pamela got from an Archives copy.

Altgens6extremeclose-up.jpg

The light area containing the socalled "spiral nebula" has a dark area very near it. This would be what you would get with the dark green surrounding the light area that Barb thought might be a "purse" being held by Lady #8. The white area surronded by green would show up in Altgens from a very different angle... nearly in profile. This looks better and better, Martin. You may have the answer.

Doug Weldon started this thread but has uttered not a peep when asked if he believes Altgens #6 shows a bullet hole in the windshield. What do you think, Doug? Has Martin worked us to the answer concerning the true nature of the socalled "spiral nebula?"

Josiah Thompson

Josiah:

With all due repect I thought I had responded in a previous post that I am not a photographic expert and I am not going to pretend to be one now. When I have questions I consult experts. My analysis of the photograph would be meaningless. I do know that Martin has posted that he believed the damage in Altgen's 6 and 7 are the same and further that the two windshields in your article are not the same. Other, than that I continue to follow the thread. I have not heard any response from you about the information I have presented about the witnesses and the impossibilities in the record, i.e. Ferguson driving through a time warp.

Doug Weldon

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Can you see it too Josiah?

Todd, thank you for your sharp eye and your compliment. :)

Thank god there are people out there whom realize it.

Martin

Maybe this will help, Martin. It's an enlargement from the original Altgens #6 negative that was done in 1967. It's about as clear as anything I've seen and matches what Pamela got from an Archives copy.

Altgens6extremeclose-up.jpg

The light area containing the socalled "spiral nebula" has a dark area very near it. This would be what you would get with the dark green surrounding the light area that Barb thought might be a "purse" being held by Lady #8. The white area surronded by green would show up in Altgens from a very different angle... nearly in profile. This looks better and better, Martin. You may have the answer.

Doug Weldon started this thread but has uttered not a peep when asked if he believes Altgens #6 shows a bullet hole in the windshield. What do you think, Doug? Has Martin worked us to the answer concerning the true nature of the socalled "spiral nebula?"

Josiah Thompson

Josiah:

With all due repect I thought I had responded in a previous post that I am not a photographic expert and I am not going to pretend to be one now. When I have questions I consult experts. My analysis of the photograph would be meaningless. I do know that Martin has posted that he believed the damage in Altgen's 6 and 7 are the same and further that the two windshields in your article are not the same. Other, than that I continue to follow the thread. I have not heard any response from you about the information I have presented about the witnesses and the impossibilities in the record, i.e. Ferguson driving through a time warp.

Doug Weldon

Josiah:

Since it appears that you have not responded to any of my my questions but you have left Barb to graciously do so so (I await her further responses) I would like to refer you to my you-tube presentation where I show that there were other versions of Altgen's that appeared to be designed to obscure the spiral nebulae. iSuch evidence of tampering naturally raises my suspicions. I don't have to be a photographic expert to see that.

Doug Weldon

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Concerning the Spiral Nebula...Here is a quick image (I am not on my regular computer

because my wife is having a bridge party in the house and I am in exile out back) that

shows the nebula hole superimposed, in my opinion, on top of the head of a small black

boy by the curb.

Oh, darn...this older computer out back uses Explorer 6, and does not seem to support

attaching images. (or I can't remember how) .I will post the image later...after the party

in the house is over. Ladies are playing bridge in the room where my computer is. Later.

Jack

I am back from exile. Here is how I see the hole in the windshield in Altgens.

Jack

Take a look at the Croft photo posted above in this thread. It shows the various spectators along the curb and Lady #8 and Lady #9. This photo was taken only a few seconds before Altgens #6. There's no child there in the Croft photo. Did he just drop in? Or was the Croft photo altered to conceal his presence there?

Josiah Thompson

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'

Barb:

I realized I did not answer your last two questions. Yes, i was taken aback at the end of the interview of Nick about Greer's wife. I know the name of the researcher (or former researcher as I have not seen his name in years) who knew Greer and his wife when he died and was given a manuscript written by Greer and paintings done by Greer and I think part of his reasoning for not releasing the manuscript was because of Greer's wife. I also have two telephone interviews of Greer done in 1970 and 1971 by someone. I can only surmise that Greer remarried after his wife died.

Doug

Hi Doug,

Yes, I am aware of the name of that researcher as well. You can only surmise? Well, no, you could have checked it out.<g> But in this case, the info has been available for some time ... from Vince Palamara and Greer's 1985 obituary, at least. Wife Ethel passed away in 1969; second wife is Mary, who gave the papers to the researcher.

How was it Prencipe said he was still in touch with Greer until after, at least, 1969? Greer retired in '66.

Was basically off my computer yesterday, that's true for the most part today as well ... I see several posts I need to respond to, especially your 2 large ones ... tomorrow.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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