DO WE ALL AGREE THAT THE BACKYARD PHOTOS ARE FAKE?

[Len Colby]

The summary is a bit confusing. If you just read the bottom of page 9 and 1st three lines of page 10 it sounds like LHO was asked about the photo during his 1st interview but if you read the next paragraph on page 10 you’ll see Fritz stated:

“At 6:00 p. m. I instructed the officers to bring Oswald back into the office, and in the presence of Jim Bookhout, Homicide officers, and Inspector Kelly, of the Secret Service, I showed Oswald an enlarged picture of him holding a rifle and wearing a pistol. This picture had been enlarged by our Crime Lab from a picture found in the garage at Mrs. Pain's home. He said the picture was not his, that the face was his face, but that this picture had been made by someone superimposing his face, the other part of the picture was not him at all and that he had never seen the picture before.”

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=10

This is confirmed by Secret Service Inspector Thomas J. Kelley’s summary of the “Interviews with Lee Harvey Oswald on November 23, 1963” which stated:

The interview was concluded about 1:10 p.m. and immediately thereafter members of the Homicide Division secured a search warrant and recovered Oswald's effects from the home of Mrs. Paine. Found among the effects were two different poses in snapshot type photographs taken of Oswald holding a rifle in one hand and holding up a copy of a paper called the Millitant and "The Worker" in the other hand. Oswald was wearing a revolver in a holster on his right side. This photograph was enlarged by the Dallas Police Laboratories and was used as a basis of additional questioning of Oswald at approximately 6:00 p.m. that same evening.

On November 23, 1963, at 6:00 p.m., in the office of Captain Fritz, Homicide Division, Dallas Police Department, I was present at an interview with Oswald. Also present were Captain Fritz, FBI Agent Jim Bookhout, and four officers from the Homicide Division. This interview was conducted with Oswald for the purpose of displaying to him the blow-ups of photographs showing him holding a rifle and a pistol which were seized as a result of the search warrant for the garage of Mrs. Paine at 2515 West 5th Street, Irving, Texas. When the photographs were presented to Oswald, he sneered at them saying that they were fake photographs; that he had been photographed a number of times the day before by the police and apparently after they photographed him they superimposed on the photographs a rifle and put a gun in his pocket. he got into a long argument with Captain Fritz about his knowledge of photography and asked Fritz a number of times whether the smaller photograph was made from the larger or whether the larger photograph was made from the smaller. He said at the proper time he would show that the photographs were fakes. Fritz told him that the smaller photograph was taken from his effects at the garage. Oswald became arrogant and refused to answer any further questions concerning the photographs and would not identify the photographs as being a photograph of himself. Captain Fritz displayed great patience and tenacity in attempting to secure from Oswald the location of what apparently is the backyard of tan address at which Oswald formerly lived, but it was apparent that Oswald, though slightly shaken by the evidence, had no intention of furnishing any information.

The interview was terminated at about 7:15 p.m.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=29106

Both of the above in copy and pastable HTML here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/app11.htm

Perhaps Martin can propose o coherent scenario where LHO was asked about a planted photo before it was found.

Also Margaruite Oswald testified that she saw a similar photo that Saturday and told Marina to destroy it. IIRC she said that Marina told her she had taken it.

"Michael Paine testified that he was shown them on Friday 22nd November. How was this possible?"

Citation, if true which is more likely a) Several months later Paine got confused OR they showed a forged photo to someone then only claimed to find it in his house the next day?

"The backyard photos are not listed on the Property Received by the FBI. Why not?"

I've seen this claim made few times but never with a link to a copy of the invoice,do you have one?

"It is claimed by Gus Rose that two negatives were found but only one was passed to the Warren Commission. Why?"

Rose could have been mistaken or someone could have kept the other as a souvenir,jusst as Roscoe White kept a photo and FBI agents kept personal items found at Ground Zero

"When the FBI did their reenactments of the photographs at the Neely Street apartment on November 29th 1963 they completed a reenactment of 133-C, the pose that Oswald assumed for the photograph that was in the DeMohrenshildts possession until 1976. "

Actually 133-c as its been labeled was found among the possessions of Roscoe White of the DPD.

Well, gazillion words have been written about the infamous backyard photos in the WCR, HSCA, FBI uncounted books from both the LN'er and the CT'er side but nothing change the fact what i have singled out here supported by official FBI and WC documents:

The DPD was in the possession of minimum one backyard photo hours before it was discovered by Dectives ROSE and STOVALL in the

Paine garage.

You have FBI documents that back that up? No all you have is Fritz's report but you choose to ignore the part where he clearly stated he showed LHO the photo after 6PM

Perhaps Martin can propose o coherent scenario where LHO was asked about a planted photo before it was found.

Where? Most likely in the office of Captain Will Fritz. Between 12:35PM and 1:10PM.

Since you're not a native speaker I'll rephrase:

"Perhaps Martin can propose o coherent scenario IN WHICH LHO was asked about a planted photo before it was found."

The summary is a bit confusing.

The only confusion i recognized here is caused by you.

You quoted my text and mixed parts of Lee Farley's quoting in one pot without discriminate /distinguish our sentences-----> you've missed to allocate our names to

our quotings.

Imagine the following scenario:

I'am going to quote you and mix Jack White's, John Simkin's and Pat Speer's (just an example gentlemen) sentences in one pot without any distinguish......

How confusing would this be?

I quoted you in quote boxes and parts of Lee's post that you had quoted in quotation marks and bold. I don't think distinguishing between the two was rocket science but you are correct I should have indicate the latter part of the message was quoting him.

You analogy would only hold if the situation was analogous.

PS I'm still waiting for you to humiliate me on the other thread.

[Len Colby]

The Paine Garage evidence list is at:

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H24_CE_2003.pdf

There is no listing for "2 photographs of Lee Oswald holding Trotsykite and Marxist newspapers and yielding rifle found on 6th floor of School Book Depository"

Crap you could have given me a page number at least that's a 210 page document! Look on pg 154 closer to the bottom than the top is a listing for "Miscellaneous photographs and negs”

Paine got confused about lots of things Len. The most severe of which was his failure to know that the metal object that was in the blanket (and which he obviously felt in great detail) whilst unpacking when Marina moved in, was in fact a rifle. At least his father George Lyman Paine had some brains in the family when he told him over the phone that Oswald was being stitched up. Shame he didn't suspect his son as being part of it.

Please provide citations for the sections of testimony that assert these claims

As far as the evidence going missing. You seem to want citations for claims on my side (Paine's claims that he was shown the photo on the night of the assassination) but enter the world of speculation on your own side of the argument.

If you want citations for any of my claims all you have to do is ask

You think the backyard photo's would be listed as "miscellaneous photos"? Oswald holding a mannlicher carcano?

It's odd but not as odd as no photos being listed.it makes more sense then them carrying out an elaborate plot including planting the photos and have a cop purjure himself about it but be unwilling fake an evidence invoice.

Do you have anyone on record that has categorically stated that assassination evidence was stolen as mementos? If so, what and whom?

The photo used for the FBI recreations was found in the possessions of a DPD cop

[Martin Hinrichs]

You have FBI documents that back that up? No.....

Stop, stop Len Colby. Wait a minute.

What are you gonna try to suggest here? Why did you say "no"?

We have to verify this important claim before any disscussion can continue.

Why did you say "no"

Martin

[Len Colby]

The photo used for the FBI recreations was found in the possessions of a DPD cop

You sure about this claim Len?

I thought they were found in the Dallas Municipal Archives? You do mean the ones with the cut-out of Oswald in them? The mattes? The one's the DPD and FBI didn't have a good answer as to why they did what they did?

You already acknowledged that "133 c" was found among Roscoe White's possessions (or his widow's if you want to split hairs), are you back tracking now?

[Len Colby]

You have FBI documents that back that up? No.....

Stop, stop Len Colby. Wait a minute.

What are you gonna try to suggest here? Why did you say "no"?

We have to verify this important claim before any disscussion can continue.

Why did you say "no"

Martin

Why did you truncate my sentence to change its context?

I wrote [emphasis added]:

"You have FBI documents that back that up? No all you have is Fritz's report but you choose to ignore the part where he clearly stated he showed LHO the photo after 6PM"

I said that's all you had because it was all you cited. If you actually have any FBI documents which indicate LHO was shown the photos before 3:20 post it here rather than whine.

[Len Colby]

Paine got confused about lots of things Len. The most severe of which was his failure to know that the metal object that was in the blanket (and which he obviously felt in great detail) whilst unpacking when Marina moved in, was in fact a rifle. At least his father George Lyman Paine had some brains in the family when he told him over the phone that Oswald was being stitched up. Shame he didn't suspect his son as being part of it.

Please provide citations for the sections of testimony that assert these claims

Sorry mate. You want citations for Michael feeling the blanket and George Paine claiming an inside job? I thought you meant about M. Paine saying he saw the photograph on the 22nd.

George Paine claiming Oswald was a "scapegoat." Warren Commission Hearings Volume II p. 392

The Rifle being moved around the garage. by Michael Paine Warren Commission Volume II p. 414-415

Thoughts?

Actually I still want evidence for the latter. As for Paine why if he were part of some plot to frame LHO he didn't know was in the blanket,it would have been a lot more damning if he'd said the opposite or even claimed to have opened the blanket and seen it.

[David G. Healy]

Jack White's work on the backyard photos was crucial, and is beyond dispute, imho.

Well Don. considering White based his works on a number of very faulty ideas, all the work created by these faulty ideas fail. How do you deal with that simple fact? Did you even try and confirm his work yourself or is it yet another case of belief on your part?

Here is one major principle where White fails. Anything based on resizing and then comparison gets tossed into the dustbin of ignorance. So whats left that has any value as a "proof'?

Why resizing fails

And you've been doing image composite work for HOW long? ROTFLMFAO! WOW, the longer you post on the subject the better this hassle gets....

[Bill Miller]

And you've been doing image composite work for HOW long? ROTFLMFAO! WOW, the longer you post on the subject the better this hassle gets....

Another very informative response, David ... I see your ability to speak and never say anything relevant has never left you.

Bill Miller

[Craig Lamson]

Jack White's work on the backyard photos was crucial, and is beyond dispute, imho.

Well Don. considering White based his works on a number of very faulty ideas, all the work created by these faulty ideas fail. How do you deal with that simple fact? Did you even try and confirm his work yourself or is it yet another case of belief on your part?

Here is one major principle where White fails. Anything based on resizing and then comparison gets tossed into the dustbin of ignorance. So whats left that has any value as a "proof'?

Why resizing fails

And you've been doing image composite work for HOW long? ROTFLMFAO! WOW, the longer you post on the subject the better this hassle gets....

30 years davie, how about you?

Now instead of your normal nonsense answer, perhaps you can refute the study?

Edited March 4, 2010 by Craig Lamson

[David G. Healy]

And you've been doing image composite work for HOW long? ROTFLMFAO! WOW, the longer you post on the subject the better this hassle gets....

Another very informative response, David ... I see your ability to speak and never say anything relevant has never left you.

Bill Miller

and you Wild Bill: "And you've been doing image composite work for HOW long? ROTFLMFAO! WOW, the longer you post on the subject the better this hassle gets...." Wouldn't want old lonesome Lamson getting lonely these days now would we?

[Len Colby]

As for Paine why if he were part of some plot to frame LHO he didn't know was in the blanket,it would have been a lot more damning if he'd said the opposite or even claimed to have opened the blanket and seen it.

Sure would Len. However, not entirely in line with a "pacifist" ideology though is it? Seeing a rifle that apparently belongs to some strange bloke your Missus has just met, and putting it in the garage where your kids are going to be running around?

In his Warren Commission testimony he said he didn't know Lee owned a rifle. In a 1993 interview he said he did.

I don't know about you but I don't know many "pacifists" who work for military warfare organizations and who let their kids live in a house with a rifle belonging to a former defector who stayed most weekends. This is a story you couldn't make up. It begs belief...

Do you know of why a person would suggest in their Warren Commission testimony that they didn't look to see what was in the blanket because the guy who it belonged to had a right to privacy but then starts reading the same guys private letters, that Ruth is scurrying away and "copying"? You put the full picture together Len and your version of events scatter to the winds...

Lee you're thinking like a Brit in 2010, in Texas in 1963 owning a rifle was totally normal, still is. They were normally used for hunting animals not people. A hand gun probably would have created more of a stir.

"I don't know many "pacifists" who work for military warfare organizations"

Did he ever describe himself as a "pacifist"?

Bell Helicopter was not exactly a "military warfare organizations" they were a company that sold some of its production to the DoD. Should all people who consider themselves pacifists and work for GM quit their jobs because the company makes Humvees?

In any case people are contradictory look at all the evangelical ministers who are guilty of the sin they rail against

"Do you know of why a person would suggest in their Warren Commission testimony that they didn't look to see what was in the blanket because the guy who it belonged to had a right to privacy but then starts reading the same guys private letters, that Ruth is scurrying away and "copying"?"

Did the Paines do this before or after the assassination?

Check out his 1993 Frontline Anniversary Special interview to see whether he lied about knowing Lee Harvey Oswald owned a rifle or not. Just further conflicting testimony to further muddy the waters and get people arguing over this point and that point.

I'm not sure what your theory is do you think LHO really had a rifle and Paine knew it or that there never was a mysterious blanket wrapped object in the garage? Please provide the excerpt from Frontline where he said he knew LHO had one. You're rationales make little sense. IF Paine was part of some plot to frame Oswald the most logical thing for him to say to the WC and press in 1963 - 4 was that he saw rifle w/ scope that matched the one found in the TSDB amongst the "lone nut's" thing shortly before the assassination.

EDIT - Formatting error fixed

Edited March 6, 2010 by Len Colby

[David G. Healy]

As for Paine why if he were part of some plot to frame LHO he didn't know was in the blanket,it would have been a lot more damning if he'd said the opposite or even claimed to have opened the blanket and seen it.

Sure would Len. However, not entirely in line with a "pacifist" ideology though is it? Seeing a rifle that apparently belongs to some strange bloke your Missus has just met, and putting it in the garage where your kids are going to be running around?

In his Warren Commission testimony he said he didn't know Lee owned a rifle. In a 1993 interview he said he did.

I don't know about you but I don't know many "pacifists" who work for military warfare organizations and who let their kids live in a house with a rifle belonging to a former defector who stayed most weekends. This is a story you couldn't make up. It begs belief...

Do you know of why a person would suggest in their Warren Commission testimony that they didn't look to see what was in the blanket because the guy who it belonged to had a right to privacy but then starts reading the same guys private letters, that Ruth is scurrying away and "copying"? You put the full picture together Len and your version of events scatter to the winds...

Lee you're thinking like a Brit in 2010, in Texas in 1963 owning a rifle was totally normal, still is. They were normally used for hunting animals not people. A hand gun probably would have created more of a stir.

"I don't know many "pacifists" who work for military warfare organizations"

Did he ever describe himself as a "pacifist"?

Bell Helicopter was not exactly a "military warfare organizations" they were a company that sold some of its production to the DoD. Should all people who consider themselves pacifists and work for GM quit their jobs because the company makes Humvees?

In any case people are contradictory look at all the evangelical ministers who are guilty of the sin they rail against

"Do you know of why a person would suggest in their Warren Commission testimony that they didn't look to see what was in the blanket because the guy who it belonged to had a right to privacy but then starts reading the same guys private letters, that Ruth is scurrying away and "copying"?"

Did the Paines do this before or after the assassination?

Check out his 1993 Frontline Anniversary Special interview to see whether he lied about knowing Lee Harvey Oswald owned a rifle or not. Just further conflicting testimony to further muddy the waters and get people arguing over this point and that point.

I'm not sure what your theory is do you think LHO really had a rifle and Paine knew it or that there never was a mysterious blanket wrapped object in the garage? Please provide the excerpt from Frontline where he said he knew LHO had one. You're rationales make little sense. IF Paine was part of some plot to frame Oswald the most logical thing for him to say to the WC and press in 1963 - 4 was that he saw rifle w/ scope that matched the one found in the TSDB amongst the "lone nut's" thing shortly before the assassination.

EDIT - Formatting error fixed

Len

This thread is supposed to be about whether the backyard photographs are genuine, right?

Thinking like a Brit in 2010 has nothing to do with it. As an aside, my wife is a Texan so I'm well clued into the culture. I spend most summers there.

The fact remains, Michael Paine stated in his WC testimony that he was "opposed to violence" - I believe that pretty much defines a pacifist. WC HII p. 411.

He also claimed to not want to look at what was in the blanket because he didn't want to infringe on Oswald's rights to privacy. WC HII p. 415

But earlier in his testimony he states he was infringing on LHO's rights to privacy by reading the letter, supposedly sent to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, that Ruth had shanghaied and copied. WC HII p. 406-407

The letter was taken, copied and read a week or two prior to the assassination (November 8th, 9th, 10th according to Michael Paine).

The Paine's are the two people, still alive, who have definitive answers that could change the present state of play concerning our knowledge of the assassination. I don't know what Michael Paine's role in all of this was Len. I'm sure he wanted as little exposure as possible after the event due to his heritage and ancestry. Ruth too. It certainly made sense from this point of view to not invite them to the HSCA or the ARRB. These two individuals were instrumental in setting Lee Harvey Oswald up and Michael Paine’s telephone conversation with Ruth on the afternoon of the assassination “…we both know who’s responsible” is a small window into the lives of these two incredible sinister people.

FACT: Paine claims to have seen the backyard photos in April 1963. http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Paine.pdf

FACT: Paine claimed to have been shown them on the night of the assassination by the FBI - WC HIX p. 444

FACT: Fritz's typed report stated Oswald was shown one of the backyard photographs prior to them being "found"

FACT: There is no chain of evidence for the backyard photos per the Dallas Inventory Sheet

I doubt any pacifists’ work for GM Len. I'm sure pacifists represent a very small minority of the U.S. population. In answer to your question, I don’t believe for a second that a true pacifist would work for any company whose products resulted in the purposeful and calculated deaths, disfigurement and injury of other people. It is incongruous. You say that “…people are contradictory.” I think you mean that people are hypocrites. Ruth and Michael Paine are contradictory, hypocrites, and have information vital to cracking this case.

If there ever was a rifle in the Paine garage it certainly wasn't the MC found on the 6th Floor. But deep down I don't believe there ever was a rifle Len. I do know what was in the Paine's house - a shed-full of filing cabinets with names and information of anti and pro Castro groups and individuals.

I know my rationale doesn’t make sense; nothing in this case makes sense the way it should if Lee Oswald just got up one day and decided to go and shoot the president. Hoodwinking is a game that gets the best results when played by professionals. Where did that Minox camera go again?

very nice, Lee Farley -- VERY NICE

[Bill Miller]

and you Wild Bill: "And you've been doing image composite work for HOW long? ROTFLMFAO! WOW, the longer you post on the subject the better this hassle gets...." Wouldn't want old lonesome Lamson getting lonely these days now would we?

Is that your best attempt at saying anything relevant or intelligent pertaining to the topic?

Bill Miller

[Len Colby]

Len

This thread is supposed to be about whether the backyard photographs are genuine, right?

Yes but you’re the one who keeps going of on tangents.

Thinking like a Brit in 2010 has nothing to do with it.

Of course it does in Liverpool in 2010 having a rifle in ones house seems really odd, in Irving Texas 1963 it was totally normal.

As an aside, my wife is a Texan so I'm well clued into the culture. I spend most summers there.

Then ask her - or better yet her parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles etc - if they would think it strange for someone to own a rifle in 1963

The fact remains, Michael Paine stated in his WC testimony that he was "opposed to violence" - I believe that pretty much defines a pacifist. WC HII p. 411.

I doubt any pacifists’ work for GM Len. I'm sure pacifists represent a very small minority of the U.S. population. In answer to your question, I don’t believe for a second that a true pacifist would work for any company whose products resulted in the purposeful and calculated deaths, disfigurement and injury of other people. It is incongruous. You say that “…people are contradictory.” I think you mean that people are hypocrites. Ruth and Michael Paine are contradictory, hypocrites, and have information vital to cracking this case

From context he obviously he meant as Sen. Cooper put it a question to him “That violence was unacceptable as a means of change” but even so you’re applying your standards to him, sort of like vegetarians who look down on meat eaters. I think most people consider themselves "opposed to violence" but working for companies that sell part of their production to the DoD doesn’t make the hypocrites. Most people who consider themselves "opposed to violence" would recognize the right to self defense and rightly of wrongly most Americans though in 1963 that the US had to be able to defend itself.

He also claimed to not want to look at what was in the blanket because he didn't want to infringe on Oswald's rights to privacy. WC HII p. 415

But earlier in his testimony he states he was infringing on LHO's rights to privacy by reading the letter, supposedly sent to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, that Ruth had shanghaied and copied. WC HII p. 406-407

The letter was taken, copied and read a week or two prior to the assassination (November 8th, 9th, 10th according to Michael Paine).

The letter was left unfolded on Ruth’s desk for “a day and a half or so” next to her typrwritter which he had written it on. It was neither “shanghaied [nor] copied”.

FACT: Paine claims to have seen the backyard photos in April 1963. http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Paine.pdf

Well some guy claims he said that on Frontline, can you link to the actual transcript? But assuming it’s true, so what?

FACT: Paine claimed to have been shown them on the night of the assassination by the FBI - WC HIX p. 444

I believe you’re right about but you gave the wrong page number. Two possibilities suggest themselves a) he was mistaken and misremembered when he was shown the photo b.) he was very badly coached by the plotters

FACT: Fritz's typed report stated Oswald was shown one of the backyard photographs prior to them being "found"

Rubbish in one paragraph he seemed to say it was shown to him during the 1st interrogation that day in the next he clearly stated it was shown to him after 6 PM

FACT: There is no chain of evidence for the backyard photos per the Dallas Inventory Sheet

You mean other than the sworn testimony of the detective who found it? I’m not a lawyer but assume that would have been sufficient to submit it in court.

If there ever was a rifle in the Paine garage it certainly wasn't the MC found on the 6th Floor. But deep down I don't believe there ever was a rifle Len.

The evidence that there was one there is strong, nothing I’ve seen precludes it being the TSBD MC.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Len Colby

[Todd W. Vaughan]

As for Paine why if he were part of some plot to frame LHO he didn't know was in the blanket,it would have been a lot more damning if he'd said the opposite or even claimed to have opened the blanket and seen it.

Sure would Len. However, not entirely in line with a "pacifist" ideology though is it? Seeing a rifle that apparently belongs to some strange bloke your Missus has just met, and putting it in the garage where your kids are going to be running around?

In his Warren Commission testimony he said he didn't know Lee owned a rifle. In a 1993 interview he said he did.

I don't know about you but I don't know many "pacifists" who work for military warfare organizations and who let their kids live in a house with a rifle belonging to a former defector who stayed most weekends. This is a story you couldn't make up. It begs belief...

Do you know of why a person would suggest in their Warren Commission testimony that they didn't look to see what was in the blanket because the guy who it belonged to had a right to privacy but then starts reading the same guys private letters, that Ruth is scurrying away and "copying"? You put the full picture together Len and your version of events scatter to the winds...

Lee you're thinking like a Brit in 2010, in Texas in 1963 owning a rifle was totally normal, still is. They were normally used for hunting animals not people. A hand gun probably would have created more of a stir.

"I don't know many "pacifists" who work for military warfare organizations"

Did he ever describe himself as a "pacifist"?

Bell Helicopter was not exactly a "military warfare organizations" they were a company that sold some of its production to the DoD. Should all people who consider themselves pacifists and work for GM quit their jobs because the company makes Humvees?

In any case people are contradictory look at all the evangelical ministers who are guilty of the sin they rail against

"Do you know of why a person would suggest in their Warren Commission testimony that they didn't look to see what was in the blanket because the guy who it belonged to had a right to privacy but then starts reading the same guys private letters, that Ruth is scurrying away and "copying"?"

Did the Paines do this before or after the assassination?

Check out his 1993 Frontline Anniversary Special interview to see whether he lied about knowing Lee Harvey Oswald owned a rifle or not. Just further conflicting testimony to further muddy the waters and get people arguing over this point and that point.

I'm not sure what your theory is do you think LHO really had a rifle and Paine knew it or that there never was a mysterious blanket wrapped object in the garage? Please provide the excerpt from Frontline where he said he knew LHO had one. You're rationales make little sense. IF Paine was part of some plot to frame Oswald the most logical thing for him to say to the WC and press in 1963 - 4 was that he saw rifle w/ scope that matched the one found in the TSDB amongst the "lone nut's" thing shortly before the assassination.

EDIT - Formatting error fixed

Len

This thread is supposed to be about whether the backyard photographs are genuine, right?

Thinking like a Brit in 2010 has nothing to do with it. As an aside, my wife is a Texan so I'm well clued into the culture. I spend most summers there.

The fact remains, Michael Paine stated in his WC testimony that he was "opposed to violence" - I believe that pretty much defines a pacifist. WC HII p. 411.

He also claimed to not want to look at what was in the blanket because he didn't want to infringe on Oswald's rights to privacy. WC HII p. 415

But earlier in his testimony he states he was infringing on LHO's rights to privacy by reading the letter, supposedly sent to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, that Ruth had shanghaied and copied. WC HII p. 406-407

The letter was taken, copied and read a week or two prior to the assassination (November 8th, 9th, 10th according to Michael Paine).

The Paine's are the two people, still alive, who have definitive answers that could change the present state of play concerning our knowledge of the assassination. I don't know what Michael Paine's role in all of this was Len. I'm sure he wanted as little exposure as possible after the event due to his heritage and ancestry. Ruth too. It certainly made sense from this point of view to not invite them to the HSCA or the ARRB. These two individuals were instrumental in setting Lee Harvey Oswald up and Michael Paine’s telephone conversation with Ruth on the afternoon of the assassination “…we both know who’s responsible” is a small window into the lives of these two incredible sinister people.

FACT: Paine claims to have seen the backyard photos in April 1963. http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Paine.pdf

FACT: Paine claimed to have been shown them on the night of the assassination by the FBI - WC HIX p. 444

FACT: Fritz's typed report stated Oswald was shown one of the backyard photographs prior to them being "found"

FACT: There is no chain of evidence for the backyard photos per the Dallas Inventory Sheet

I doubt any pacifists’ work for GM Len. I'm sure pacifists represent a very small minority of the U.S. population. In answer to your question, I don’t believe for a second that a true pacifist would work for any company whose products resulted in the purposeful and calculated deaths, disfigurement and injury of other people. It is incongruous. You say that “…people are contradictory.” I think you mean that people are hypocrites. Ruth and Michael Paine are contradictory, hypocrites, and have information vital to cracking this case.

If there ever was a rifle in the Paine garage it certainly wasn't the MC found on the 6th Floor. But deep down I don't believe there ever was a rifle Len. I do know what was in the Paine's house - a shed-full of filing cabinets with names and information of anti and pro Castro groups and individuals.

I know my rationale doesn’t make sense; nothing in this case makes sense the way it should if Lee Oswald just got up one day and decided to go and shoot the president. Hoodwinking is a game that gets the best results when played by professionals. Where did that Minox camera go again?

Lee,

"Michael Paine’s telephone conversation with Ruth on the afternoon of the assassination “…we both know who’s responsible” is a small window into the lives of these two incredible sinister people."

Just an FYI, the very documents you posted state that this conversation took [place on Saturday 23 November 1963, not on the afternoon of the assassination

Armstrong makes this same mistake in his book, citing the very same documents.

Todd