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Air Force One Radio Transmissions


William Kelly
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Drat. Ok, I'll have to try to narrow the list down a bit. (groan)

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Doug Horne wrote:

“Liberty” appears to be the party controlling radio frequency assignments among 26000,86972, and the various parties in Washington DC who are talking with Government officials on Air Force One while it is enroute Andrews AFB.

We now know that the "Liberty" was the Collins Radio "Fishbowl" radio relay station at the Collins HQ at Cedar Rapids, Iowa, which also controlled the radio communications relays between SAC bombers as well as the Cabinet Plane.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry177573

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Bill,

Thanks, once again, for continuing to post these very important excerpts from Doug Horne's book.

I thought that McGeorge Bundy had supposedly been recorded as telling the cabinet members there was no conspiracy, from the White House Situation Room. However, it appears that I may have been mistaken, in that Bundy was in charge of the Situation Room, but may have not actually been recorded himself in such a way.

I don't think there is an innocent explanation for high ranking officials in the administration to be assuring other members that there wasn't a conspiracy, and that the lone nut was already in custody, when virtually no investigation had even taken place. When you throw in the "edited and condensed" nonsense, and the unavailability of the unedited conversations when the AARB requested them, the story is all too familiar (and again, not innocent, imho).

Thanks for posting the "wink" photo, Bernice. Just look at that smile and wink on the part of LBJ's good ole buddy; one doesn't have to imagine much to see the outline of a return grin on the side of LBJ's turned head. And again, preserved for posterity, is Lady Bird's totally inappropriate smile, which she just can't contain.

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Bill,

Thanks, once again, for continuing to post these very important excerpts from Doug Horne's book.

I thought that McGeorge Bundy had supposedly been recorded as telling the cabinet members there was no conspiracy, from the White House Situation Room. However, it appears that I may have been mistaken, in that Bundy was in charge of the Situation Room, but may have not actually been recorded himself in such a way.

I don't think there is an innocent explanation for high ranking officials in the administration to be assuring other members that there wasn't a conspiracy, and that the lone nut was already in custody, when virtually no investigation had even taken place. When you throw in the "edited and condensed" nonsense, and the unavailability of the unedited conversations when the AARB requested them, the story is all too familiar (and again, not innocent, imho).

Thanks for posting the "wink" photo, Bernice. Just look at that smile and wink on the part of LBJ's good ole buddy; one doesn't have to imagine much to see the outline of a return grin on the side of LBJ's turned head. And again, preserved for posterity, is Lady Bird's totally inappropriate smile, which she just can't contain.

And I think that it is significant that the negative of the wink photo is missing, apparently stollen from a vault at the LBJ Library, and as Manchester points out, LBJ didn't know that JFK had ordered all the radio transmissions from AF1 recorded, and he was the one who permitted White and Manchester to read, but not keep the longer, but edited transcripts and tapes we have today, which were also released by the LBJ Library.

Lady Bird ran the LBJ Library and one of the daughters does so today, so its possible the family had more control over those records than they should have, as technically, the tapes and the photo negatives are government property, not private, and belong to the people, not the Johnson family.

Since Teddy White was writing another in his series of The Making of a President (1964) and Manchester had the assignment to write the official history of the assassination commissioned by the widow, LBJ cooperated with both of them to some extent, at least letting them read a longer version of the transcript than we have today.

How do we know they were given a longer transcript?

Because they both describe incidents that aren't on the extant tape or transcript.

White describes a conversation in which McGeorge Bundy in the White House Situation Room tells AF1 that Oswald was the lone gunman and there was no conspiracy, while Manchester says that Gen. Clifton on AF1 asks Bundy if there was a broader international conspiracy, and the response is that the Pentagon was "taking its own steps," something that is not on the tapes or transcripts that we have today.

I am confident that we will eventually locate the complete tapes and transcripts, as Manchester notes, they were not secure radio channels so they could be "bugged," but actually anyone with a HAM radio receiver could hear them if they knew the proper frequencies, and they were most certainly monitored by private amatetur radio buffs as well as the military.

It's also pretty certain that foreign government communication intelligence agencies also monitored and recorded the AF1 radio transmissions, and we could get them from a friendly foreign government (Canada, Israel, Australia, UK) or even Cuba, who had a powerful radio listening post on the north shore that they shared with the Ruskies until a few years ago.

I'm also pretty certain that the "Liberty" station at Collins Radio also recorded these transmissions, but being a private government contractor, they apparently are not legally responsive to the JFK Act or FOIA.

Maybe they'll find the AF1 radio tapes, the compelte transcript, the missing wink negative, JFK's missing Catholic missile that LBJ perjured himself on while swearing the oath of office, and the missing Hendrix tapes all together in one stash in Lady Bird's closit.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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WILLIAM -

...

I am confident that we will eventually locate the complete tapes and transcripts, as Manchester notes, they were not secure radio channels so they could be "bugged," but actually anyone with a HAM radio receiver could hear them if they knew the proper frequencies, and they were most certainly monitored by private amatetur radio buffs as well as the military.

It's also pretty certain that foreign government communication intelligence agencies also monitored and recorded the AF1 radio transmissions, and we could get them from a friendly foreign government (Canada, Israel, Australia, UK) or even Cuba, who had a powerful radio listening post on the north shore that they shared with the Ruskies until a few years ago.

...

me too

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Mr. Kelly,

Just a note to say thank you for this information. This has proved to be some of the most interesting reading I have found here in quite sometime.

Again, thank you Sir.

Mike

Hey Mike,

I'm glad someone is finding all this as interesting as I do.

And thanks for being a vet.

I have a few questions for you, with your background.

Having reviewed the case now, can you tell me in your opinion:

1) Did the Sixth floor sniper use the Manlicher Carcano or another rifle?

2) If the MC was used, did the shooter use the scope or not?

3) If the MC was used, did the shooter use the strap for support and accuracy?

4) As seen in the Zapruder film, does the head shot originate from the front or the rear?

Thank you,

BK

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Mr. Kelly,

Just a note to say thank you for this information. This has proved to be some of the most interesting reading I have found here in quite sometime.

Again, thank you Sir.

Mike

Hey Mike,

I'm glad someone is finding all this as interesting as I do.

And thanks for being a vet.

I have a few questions for you, with your background.

Having reviewed the case now, can you tell me in your opinion:

1) Did the Sixth floor sniper use the Manlicher Carcano or another rifle?

2) If the MC was used, did the shooter use the scope or not?

3) If the MC was used, did the shooter use the strap for support and accuracy?

4) As seen in the Zapruder film, does the head shot originate from the front or the rear?

Thank you,

BK

Mr. Kelly,

No thanks needed Sir.

To answer a your questions:

1) I believe the 6th floor shooter used the MC rifle. The wounds would seem to be consistent with the this type of rifle, but more importantly the impact angles seem to indicate strongly that the shots were fired from that window.

2) To be quite frank here, I do not know. I have an MC with a cantilever mount, and in my opinion it could be used either way. However with the longest shot being a mere 100 yards, a scope would not be needed at all.

3) Again there really is no way to know. I would think as the shots were not at any great range that "saddling" or "snapping in" would not be needed.

4) The head shot without fail comes from the rear. For one, projectiles that perforate do not transfer the kind of energy it requires to "slam" a human body back like we see in the famous "back and to the left". A more honest representation is the sight forward head movement we initially see. It is relatively simple to calculate, but generally the impact of a transiting projectile is no more than .1%-.3% of the energy the projectile has at time of impact.

Another indication of a rear shot is that upon entry the wound will emit back spatter. This is generally large drops of blood traveling at moderate speed, Upon exit things change. We then see forward spatter, which is a very dense cloud of almost mist like droplets in very high speed.

To offer an example take a straw and fill 2 inches of it with ketchup. Then simply blow out the ketchup. That is back spatter.

Next fill a spray bottle with water and red food color, set it to mist rather than stream, and spray it a few times. The dense cloud of mist hangs in the air and is compromised of small droplets. This is forward spatter.

I think this is exactly what we see in the Z film.

I hope that I have at least given my opinion satisfactorily to your questions. If not, I am at your service.

Best to you Sir,

Mike

Edited by Mike Williams
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Mike, is it possible given the confines of the sixth floor nest have a scope mounted, use the strap, and correctly use the sight given the downward up away weaving route to, (at Lee Oswalds shooting rating), reasonably expect the headshot to be successful? Does the sun play a factor?

edit:typos

Edited by John Dolva
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Mike, is it possible given the confines of the sixth floor nest have a scope mounted, use the strap, and correctly use the sight given the downward up away weaving route to, (at Lee Oswalds shooting rating), reasonably expect the headshot to be successful? Does the sun play a factor?

edit:typos

Mr. Dolva,

In my opinion, It would be possible to use the scope and strap, however as I said earlier this would be completely unneeded. These were not difficult shots by any means, but then again LHO was only a marginal marksman by Marine standards. This would still make him a better marksman than an average civilian with no training at all.

If we consider that the target is for the most part moving away and only slightly left to right, then I believe there was plenty of room to track the target. It would require very little swing of the weapon.

I do believe we could reasonably expect a head shot to be successful, Lee would have qualified at 200 300 and 500 meters with open sights. A hundred yard shot, especially if the scope were used, would be very likely to have a hit. I am rather surprised that it took 3 shots to manage it.

I do not believe the sun would play a huge part. Although if memory serves the sun was shining right on the face of the building, he was aiming down, not up towards the sun. I believe the sun would have had little part in hampering him.

Best to you Sir,

Mike

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Mike Williams,

Thanks for your well founded answers. Very interesting, especially coming from an expert in this field.

May I ask just another one - is it also your conclusion that it actually was LHO firing those shots from the TSBD?

Regards,

GV

Edited by Glenn Viklund
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Thank you Mike. I particularly appreciate your consistent politeness. I'm australian. We express it differently but mean and appreciate it the same. Thank you for the answers. (it's a bit like chatting to Tom and Al again, even G.P.H. (RIP)

Ok, What about as well as the tracking, (which was not really that easy in the space available, necessitating a movement of the body due to the confines of the window opening ahile cycling and reaquiring), how much of the considerations of a downwards to level to upwards factors that need to be considered in targeting could one expect Lee Oswald to be good at, is it part of the basic training, or is it all stationary? If so, does it matter??

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Mike Williams,

Thanks for your well founded answers. Very interesting, especially coming from an expert in this field.

May I ask just another one - is it also your conclusion that it actually was LHO firing those shots from the TSBD?

Regards,

GV

Glenn,

Greetings Sir.

I wish that were something I could calculate.

I think there is more than a fair bit of evidence that he was the shooter, however, I am not certain we will ever be able to place him behind that rifle beyond the shadow of any doubt. There is a wealth of circumstantial evidence, if one is to take the evidence at face value. However, I personally have issues with some of this evidence, and its integrity. I do believe I can prove, at least to my own satisfaction that all shots came from the 6th floor window, that in no way whatsoever concludes who fired them. Frankly that is not my forte.

I believe he had the ability, and the means. I am less sure of his motive.

Best to you Sir,

Mike

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Thank you Mike. I particularly appreciate your consistent politeness. I'm australian. We express it differently but mean and appreciate it the same. Thank you for the answers. (it's a bit like chatting to Tom and Al again, even G.P.H. (RIP)

Ok, What about as well as the tracking, (which was not really that easy in the space available, necessitating a movement of the body due to the confines of the window opening ahile cycling and reaquiring), how much of the considerations of a downwards to level to upwards factors that need to be considered in targeting could one expect Lee Oswald to be good at, is it part of the basic training, or is it all stationary? If so, does it matter??

Mr. Dolva,

Training would have been stationary. However, at a speed of 11.2mph the target would move 1.31 feet away and drop about .05" considering a downgrade of 3* during the duration of the travel of the projectile @ 2165fps.

This would in fact be very easy to track. If we consider the scope being used the furthest shot would have had the appearance of being only 25 yards away.

In regard to repositioning and requiring the target. Please forgive the size of the attached graphic, I wanted it to be clear enough to see.

My opinion is that there was very little rotation, also the MC has a very manageable recoil. Reacquiring the target would be pretty easy.

riflerotation.png

Thank you for the kind words.

Mike

Edit spelling

Edited by Mike Williams
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