Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Jack White]

BTW, can anybody who has a good relationship with Marina Oswald discreetly inquire about this?

Unnecessary. Marina was married to the man killed by Ruby. The corpse was circumcised.

A better question would be to ROBERT Oswald about whether his brother was circumcised.

If not, it it proof of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee. If Harvey is circumcised (per autopsy) and

Lee was not, this is strong physical evidence of two Oswalds. It might also account for the FBI

taking a color slide of the LHO penis.

Jack

Edited May 7, 2010 by Jack White

[Todd W. Vaughan]

BTW, can anybody who has a good relationship with Marina Oswald discreetly inquire about this?

Unnecessary. Marina was married to the man killed by Ruby. The corpse was circumcised.

A better question would be to ROBERT Oswald about whether his brother was circumcised.

If not, it it proof of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee. If Harvey is circumcised (per autopsy) and

Lee was not, this is strong physical evidence of two Oswalds. It might also account for the FBI

taking a color slide of the LHO penis.

Jack

Are you saying outright that the FBI took a lone color slide of just the penis?

Because otherwise we're talking about a slide from a set of color slides of the entrie naked body - of course 1 (or more) of those slides would show the penis.

Impling as you did that the FBI took a lone picture make it sound much more suspicious.

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Pseudonym was perhaps the wrong name for signing the review the way she did. BUT it was intended to hide her identity.

Otherwise she would have signed it Judyth Baker, Judyth Vary Baker, Judy Baker, etc.

Avary Baker sounds like a man's name. Avary was her parents' name and her name as a child. For reasons not divulged,

she changed her name from Avary to Vary. It is unknown whether this was a legal change or a teen whim. So Avary was her

name...just not her customary name.

In any event, signing the review Avary Baker instead of Judy Baker was meant to hide her identiity...like a pseudonym.

Jack

Ahhh, okay, I see what you mean, and yes, I agree. But her family name was Vary ... what she did here was add an A to it to make it look like a first name. She had Fetzer post some nonsense back when she posted that Stelly Mound thing that she hated the name Vary and/or was afraid to use the name Vary (I don't remember which it was in this thread) so had started using the name Avary Baker. Makes no sense to me either. At the time she posted the review in Jan 2000, not many knew the name Judyth Vary Baker. But if she had already planned to deny having/reading books on the assassination, as she emphatically did in that e-mail to Dave in October 2000,, she was foolish to post it at all.

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

JACK ; YOU ARE SO SHARP IT IS UNBELIEVEABLE THAT YOU ARE 83.....YOU RUN CIRCLES AROUND SO MANY, AND ARE FAR AHEAD OF THE REST MOST TIMES, THANKS...

Bernice,

Jack's performance in this thread is admirable. The way Jack is conducting himself should be a lesson especially to certain friends of his.

GV

I agree!

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

This circumcision thing could be a real game changer. I don't know how I missed it, unless it was while I was in the hospital. Barb, could you post a link to the "very long ramble" where she explains it?

I don't understand how a woman, who claims a great ability to recall details, who had an intimate relationship with a man could be wrong about such a detail. And the autopsy report/picture alteration thing sounds farfetched, too. Why would anybody (in 1963-4? Or even later) go to the lengths of altering a report and picture of that one detail?

This reminds me a bit of another item I brought up with Baker: She said Oswald told her about Uncle Dutz, but she pronounced the name wrong. I always thought it was pronounced to rhyme with "butts," but I later learned it was correctly pronounced to rhyme with "boots." But until I brought it up, Baker pronounced it "butts." She explained that she went with Martin Shackelford's insistence that it rhymed with "butts." But if you were Baker, who would you trust to pronounce it correctly: Martin, or Oswald himself? How could she have gotten that wrong?

Here ya go, Steve. This was an epistle written to Rich DellaRosa who posted it on his forum. Dave Reitzes posted it on the mod group a month later. It was just a year ago. The circumcision issue is in paragraphs 15 and 16. :-)

It is full of so many tangled things ... including some claims about having provisional asylum in Sweden. And on the circumcision, she's putting a spin on it blaming Debra, making it sound like she had never told Debra LHO was not circumcised and trying to make it sound like Debra was saying she had a photo that showed he was *not* ... which makes no sense because if that was the case, there would have been no reason for Chapman to have called Judyth and essentially challenged her on her having told Debra that O was not circumcised. She says she told Debra Oswald was "well endowed."

There is a little something for everyone in here ... she mentions Armstrong and Haslam in here too. In my opinion, this is just a longer than usual ramble where she gives her usual spin on when she and 2 others barged into Mary Ferrell's home with a tape recorder and other things ... a long spin of turning things around, everything is someone else's fault, she's a victim ... and then at the end she mentions the "donate" button on her website because she and her service dog both need medical care. Pretty sad and telling overall, imo.

It is here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...sassination.jfk

I recall your having mentioned the mispronunciation of Dutz before ... and, of course, if she knew Oswald, she would have known ...and used ... the correct pronunciation. And she never would have said conflicting things about him being circumcised.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Pat Speer]

Thanks for the link to that email, Barb.

Three things stand out for me. 1) (assuming she in fact wrote the email) Baker holds that Haslam's book was reviewed in Budapest newspapers--plural. I don't believe this for a second. Was Haslam's book reviewed multiple times in ANY American city? I doubt it. 2) She holds that Deb Conway was hoping to make her bones as a researcher by co-writing Lifton's book, or some such thing. I've spoken to Deb a number of times over the years and have never heard her express admiration for Lifton and his theories, or to have a strong interest in Oswald for that matter. She is very much interested in Kennedy and the Kennedy family, and in various witnesses to the events of 11-22-63. (This is reflected in the books she has published). In any event, the section on Deb Conway just doesn't pass my smell test. 3) She talks abut Lifton illegally taping her, and how he must have altered the tape, blah blah blah. This indicates she knows there are things on the tape which cannot be readily explained. This means that she, AS A RESEARCHER, KNOWS there are things on the tape which undermine her credibility, and prove her to be a serial fabricator. This leads us back to the question: DOES DAVID LIFTON ALTER TAPES, to change what people tell him? As a student of the medical evidence, whose studies have led him to conclusions far removed from Lifton's, I have no dog in this hunt. (It would probably be to my benefit, in fact, if Lifton could be exposed as a xxxx.) But, there's simply nothing to it. Lifton supplied the ARRB with many of the tapes he'd made. As I recall, some of the witnesses relented when confronted with tapes he'd made of them decades earlier, and admitted they'd since changed their mind, etc. I don't believe any of them claimed he'd altered the tapes. As a result, we have Lifton, whose credibility on this issue has been established, arguing against Baker, whose credibility is questionable. It's a steamroller squashing a pumpkin, in my opinion.

This, however, is not my final thought on the matter. Judyth (?) claims in the email to suffer from short-term memory loss. Perhaps she really did know Oswald, and have a relationship with him of some sort, only to have her credibility undermined by a condition that has led her to add fantastic details into the story. Perhaps there is some other explanation.

I'll read her book and decide.

[Jack White]

I posted this on another forum, in relation to witnesses who come forward

many years later:

.......

Beware of witnesses who suddenly COME FORWARD with tales.

When they SEEK YOU OUT, they have something to sell you. Let the

buyer beware. (Chauncey Holt, James Files, Judyth Baker)

It is more reliable to trust witnesses you find who DID NOT SEEK YOU

OUT. (Gordon Arnold, Beverly Oliver, Madeleine Brown, Jean Hill, Mary

Moorman, Bill Newman, Dennis David, Aubrey Rike, Paul Groody, etc.)

Jack

Edited May 7, 2010 by Jack White

[Jack White]

BTW, can anybody who has a good relationship with Marina Oswald discreetly inquire about this?

Unnecessary. Marina was married to the man killed by Ruby. The corpse was circumcised.

A better question would be to ROBERT Oswald about whether his brother was circumcised.

If not, it it proof of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee. If Harvey is circumcised (per autopsy) and

Lee was not, this is strong physical evidence of two Oswalds. It might also account for the FBI

taking a color slide of the LHO penis.

Jack

Are you saying outright that the FBI took a lone color slide of just the penis?

Because otherwise we're talking about a slide from a set of color slides of the entrie naked body - of course 1 (or more) of those slides would show the penis.

Impling as you did that the FBI took a lone picture make it sound much more suspicious.

Yes...the FBI slide set includes a closup of the genitial area. It is one of about a dozen FBI sldes

of the corpse. All copies are bootlegs I think. I copied mine from a set borrowed from Gary Shaw.

Jack

[Glenn Viklund]

It is here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...sassination.jfk

I recall your having mentioned the mispronunciation of Dutz before ... and, of course, if she knew Oswald, she would have known ...and used ... the correct pronunciation. And she never would have said conflicting things about him being circumcised.

Bests,

Barb :-)

"I know that my name has been turned to mud in your

organization, but I ask you to review who my enemies are, and the

fact that they still ceaselessly campaign against me. They hired

somebody to hunt me down in Sweden--a translator--and they posted

even the numer of my case file on their newsgroup, plus plenty of

lies about me while in under the protection of the EU political

asylum program. They then reported that I was last known as

planning to move to Ireland (true -- but I ended up in Turkey).

they recently erased 45,000 files and only about 5,000

remain--mostly the worst of them, fll of the usual invective and

name-calling--while effrective responses from my defenders have

been mostly wiped out. "

Hahahaha........my god - this woman is absolutely outlandish. In this posting from Dave the above is just one of several pieces about her Sweden experience that are simply, eh....untruthful.

This section below is nothing but fiction - it never happened:

The swedish goverment's investigators are seasoned professionals. They have connections

with agencies everywhere. They have experience in determining if a person is telling the truth or not. They knew i wasn;t lying,

but they also correctly assessed the fact that the threat I had faced was for a particlar time and place and might not occur

again if i took adwquate precautions and did not return to the US. I have taken their advice and remained on the other side of

the planet. but that doesn;t mean i have to like it."

This is a perfect example of going all in. If you're not gone tell the truth, then do it with such fantasies that it boggles the mind - then perhaps people will believe what you say.

I'll be happy to have this piece reviewed by a Swedish official at the Court.

This woman is beyond imagination.

But one heck of good laugh, that's for sure.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Glenn Viklund

[Jack White]

Pseudonym was perhaps the wrong name for signing the review the way she did. BUT it was intended to hide her identity.

Otherwise she would have signed it Judyth Baker, Judyth Vary Baker, Judy Baker, etc.

Avary Baker sounds like a man's name. Avary was her parents' name and her name as a child. For reasons not divulged,

she changed her name from Avary to Vary. It is unknown whether this was a legal change or a teen whim. So Avary was her

name...just not her customary name.

In any event, signing the review Avary Baker instead of Judy Baker was meant to hide her identiity...like a pseudonym.

Jack

Ahhh, okay, I see what you mean, and yes, I agree. But her family name was Vary ... what she did here was add an A to it to make it look like a first name. She had Fetzer post some nonsense back when she posted that Stelly Mound thing that she hated the name Vary and/or was afraid to use the name Vary (I don't remember which it was in this thread) so had started using the name Avary Baker. Makes no sense to me either. At the time she posted the review in Jan 2000, not many knew the name Judyth Vary Baker. But if she had already planned to deny having/reading books on the assassination, as she emphatically did in that e-mail to Dave in October 2000,, she was foolish to post it at all.

Barb :-)

Maybe I am mistaken. I remember reading that she "hated the name AVARY, and shortened it to VARY". Maybe I misremembered.

Jack

[Doug Weldon]

This circumcision thing could be a real game changer. I don't know how I missed it, unless it was while I was in the hospital. Barb, could you post a link to the "very long ramble" where she explains it?

I don't understand how a woman, who claims a great ability to recall details, who had an intimate relationship with a man could be wrong about such a detail. And the autopsy report/picture alteration thing sounds farfetched, too. Why would anybody (in 1963-4? Or even later) go to the lengths of altering a report and picture of that one detail?

This reminds me a bit of another item I brought up with Baker: She said Oswald told her about Uncle Dutz, but she pronounced the name wrong. I always thought it was pronounced to rhyme with "butts," but I later learned it was correctly pronounced to rhyme with "boots." But until I brought it up, Baker pronounced it "butts." She explained that she went with Martin Shackelford's insistence that it rhymed with "butts." But if you were Baker, who would you trust to pronounce it correctly: Martin, or Oswald himself? How could she have gotten that wrong?

Here ya go, Steve. This was an epistle written to Rich DellaRosa who posted it on his forum. Dave Reitzes posted it on the mod group a month later. It was just a year ago. The circumcision issue is in paragraphs 15 and 16. :-)

It is full of so many tangled things ... including some claims about having provisional asylum in Sweden. And on the circumcision, she's putting a spin on it blaming Debra, making it sound like she had never told Debra LHO was not circumcised and trying to make it sound like Debra was saying she had a photo that showed he was *not* ... which makes no sense because if that was the case, there would have been no reason for Chapman to have called Judyth and essentially challenged her on her having told Debra that O was not circumcised. She says she told Debra Oswald was "well endowed."

There is a little something for everyone in here ... she mentions Armstrong and Haslam in here too. In my opinion, this is just a longer than usual ramble where she gives her usual spin on when she and 2 others barged into Mary Ferrell's home with a tape recorder and other things ... a long spin of turning things around, everything is someone else's fault, she's a victim ... and then at the end she mentions the "donate" button on her website because she and her service dog both need medical care. Pretty sad and telling overall, imo.

It is here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...sassination.jfk

I recall your having mentioned the mispronunciation of Dutz before ... and, of course, if she knew Oswald, she would have known ...and used ... the correct pronunciation. And she never would have said conflicting things about him being circumcised.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Barb:

Even if she trys to dance around what she told Coinway her e-mail to Reitzes is very clear and irrefutable.

Doug Weldon

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Thanks for the link to that email, Barb.

Three things stand out for me. 1) (assuming she in fact wrote the email) Baker holds that Haslam's book was reviewed in Budapest newspapers--plural. I don't believe this for a second.

Hi Pat,

I agree with you overall, as well as on your point above. I doubt the Hungarian newspaper reviews story as well ... and here is one reason why:

On her new book's amazon page, Judyth wrote a long ditty called, "TEN YEARS OF BATTLE" - it's a biography. One thing she says in it is:

While teaching in Hungary, in 2007, I was suddenly told I had to quit: Hungarian agents warned me to leave the country, but not to return to America. The date: sept. 8 - the same day Edward T. Haslam's book, dr. Mary's Monkey, was reviewed by a popular blogger in Hungary. I ended up fleeing to Scandinavia, where I sought political asylum.

As I recall from another telling, she left Hungary in a real hurry. So here it's a blogger, no mention of newspaper(s), and she fled to Sweden.

Further down in this biography, she says this:

I finally obtained safe haven in the Middle east and in Europe, through the actions of friends and my children, just before I would have been forced to go back to America. Instead, I am free to go anywhere I choose, and do so, but I am a woman without a country, without a home, unable to see my grandchildren and children, for I do not want bad things to happen to them because of my presence. I am grateful for those who handled my case in Sweden, who despite political difficulties grated me time to find safe haven (actually, two safe havens!). I'm safe now, I feel, thanks to everyone's help. I do hope someday to be able to safely live and travel in my own country.

Judyth left Sweden in early July 2008.

Now see this info from Dave Reitzes ... and a letter to the editor:

Web Letters: November 22, 1963: You Are There By Our Readers & Max

Holland

This article appeared in the March 20, 2006 edition of The Nation.

[http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060320]

----------

Max Holland has done a great deal of useful research. Joan Mellen's

comments, however, are excellent and well expressed, showing

brilliance.

Judyth Vary Baker

Montgomery, AL

08/03/2008 @ 12:11pm

The wonder of the cyber age ... it could have been written from anywhere, I reckon.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited May 7, 2010 by Barb Junkkarinen

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Pseudonym was perhaps the wrong name for signing the review the way she did. BUT it was intended to hide her identity.

Otherwise she would have signed it Judyth Baker, Judyth Vary Baker, Judy Baker, etc.

Avary Baker sounds like a man's name. Avary was her parents' name and her name as a child. For reasons not divulged,

she changed her name from Avary to Vary. It is unknown whether this was a legal change or a teen whim. So Avary was her

name...just not her customary name.

In any event, signing the review Avary Baker instead of Judy Baker was meant to hide her identiity...like a pseudonym.

Jack

Ahhh, okay, I see what you mean, and yes, I agree. But her family name was Vary ... what she did here was add an A to it to make it look like a first name. She had Fetzer post some nonsense back when she posted that Stelly Mound thing that she hated the name Vary and/or was afraid to use the name Vary (I don't remember which it was in this thread) so had started using the name Avary Baker. Makes no sense to me either. At the time she posted the review in Jan 2000, not many knew the name Judyth Vary Baker. But if she had already planned to deny having/reading books on the assassination, as she emphatically did in that e-mail to Dave in October 2000,, she was foolish to post it at all.

Barb :-)

Maybe I am mistaken. I remember reading that she "hated the name AVARY, and shortened it to VARY". Maybe I misremembered.

Jack

Easy to get mixed up with all the twists and turns .... for sure! Her maiden name was Vary ... and she uses it as her middle name. Her given middle name at birth was Anne. Used to be fairly common for women to use their maiden name as their middle name once they got married.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Barb:

Even if she trys to dance around what she told Coinway her e-mail to Reitzes is very clear and irrefutable.

Doug Weldon

Indeed, agreed.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Kathleen Collins]

Early Judyth, excerpt from an e-mail ... from October 2000.

Subj: Re: test

Date: 10/6/00 3:49:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Americanwebworks

To: Dreitzes

CC: Howpl

b] For exakple, Debra Conway

asked me intimate questions about Lee, since she knew information from

things i never knew existed. Example: was lee circumcized? (no). [/b]

God bless you,Dave,

Judyth V. Baker

Per Oswald autopsy report:

The penis is circumcised.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...H26_CE_3002.pdf

It's difficult to read LHO's autopsy. It's not too clear. But I noticed one thing: Did it actually say "the pubic hair has been shaved"? The only reason I think a man would shave his pubic hair is if he had crabs. And he was circumsized. How could Judyth say he wasn't? It's something a girl notices...

Kathy C

Edited May 8, 2010 by Kathleen Collins