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Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile


Guest James H. Fetzer

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Exactly.

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Mike,

Just for the record, I agree that Jim has also crossed the line, IMO. In fact, Jim admitted that himself when he recommended that the irrelevant posts be removed, including his own.

I have been friends with both Jim and Jack for over a decade. So watching them bicker is kinda yucky. But, Jim drew first personal blood with Jack, too, IMO. And it was not appropriate. However, Jim reacted to what he perceived as a personal attack on Judyth -- with his own personal attack on Jack. Unfortunately, that really is what happened and how the nastiness began. Perhaps all "personal" attacks, even of folks not currently posting themselves (JVB) should have been stopped before the temperature rose to its current level.

As it is, we seem to have a "pile on" effect, where those, like you, who even admit to only having a very narrow field of expertise (ballistics, that does NOT include sufficient knowledge about JVB) are weighing in to the discussion and doing so with considerable force. So, while I agree that both sides have crossed the line, one should not expect that a person will remain non-defensive when a mob is attempting to back them into a corner.

Moreover, I think the only reason you injected yourself into this thread is because you have a bone to pick with Jim on another topic relating to ballistics, which is why this thread has been steered away from JVB and re-directed to ballistics. IOW: Hijacked.

I think it is unreasonable for anyone to think that thread topics won't drift sometimes, but there is a difference between drifting and steering.

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Question for Judyth:

You say this was Dr. Rivera. Was he also a naval officer?

The time of day is 8:21 CST.

Jack

Good catch, Jack. That is a picture of a Naval officer. Dr. Jose Rivera was, indeed, Army.

And go figure all her talk (long explanatory post on pg 192) about *Cubans* being

light/dark/white/black and all the pics

accompanying what I believe you correctly termed a "tap dance"...

Dr. Jose Rivera was born in Peru.

4080292430_cd1e760dc3_b.jpg

There are several articles about Rivera from different ranks of his career starting in message #92 on the Ed Forum at:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...%26tbs%3Disch:1

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited by Barb Junkkarinen
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Jose might be a cover name, Anne, Linda and Natalie are not exactly spanish

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Good catch, Jack. That is a picture of a Naval officer. Dr. Jose Rivera was, indeed, Army.

If she shows us a naval officer and claims it is Rivera, how does that affect the credibility of her

other claims? And her comparisons of Cubans was total non sequitur, since Rivera was Peruvian.

She forgets that Adele was with Rivera on numerous occasions, while Judyth admits she only

saw from a distance a person she was told was Rivera. So Adele would know him much better

than JVB. I have sent the photo to Adele for comment.

Jack

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Jose might be a cover name, Anne, Linda and Natalie are not exactly spanish

Looks like he was just about 18 when he came to the U.S. to go to college. and like he married

an American girl, not unusual for the kids to have American names, me thinks.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Good catch, Jack. That is a picture of a Naval officer. Dr. Jose Rivera was, indeed, Army.

If she shows us a naval officer and claims it is Rivera, how does that affect the credibility of her

other claims? And her comparisons of Cubans was total non sequitur, since Rivera was Peruvian.

She forgets that Adele was with Rivera on numerous occasions, while Judyth admits she only

saw from a distance a person she was told was Rivera. So Adele would know him much better

than JVB. I have sent the photo to Adele for comment.

Jack

Good, Jack. Could you also ask her again what she recollects Judyth told her, if anything, about

meeting Rivera ... having been introduced to him by Ochsner? Judyth's explanation below doesn't make much sense, imo.

In the long tap expanation post on page 192, Judyth says:

"Edisen also has the impression that I said Ochsner introduced him to me. HOWEVER, DR. RIVERA WAS

MENTIONED IN A PRIVATE INTERVIEW WITH DR. OCHSNER at Charity Hospital. While he introduced me,

insofar as making me aware of him, because I had to go to the east Louisiana Mental Hospital, the intro

was NOT not face-to-face. She may have got that impression, but she misunderstood me."

He "introduced" her to him .... by making her aware of him when she and Ochsner were alone? Please.

And what does having "introduced" Judyth to him have to do with her having to go to the mental hospital

in Jackson?

Judyth also said:

"....I was pretty certain I had seen Rivera at the Tulane University Medical Library.

I described him as wearing glasses and being a nervous person. Note that in the common photos available

he is not wearing glasses, but he is wearing glasses in his military photo."

But, as we now know, that's not Rivera in the military photo.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited by Barb Junkkarinen
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Guest James H. Fetzer

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK ABOUT THE MYSTERIOUS PERUVIAN ARMY OFFICER

Good catch, Jack. That is a picture of a Naval officer. Dr. Jose Rivera was, indeed, Army.

If she shows us a naval officer and claims it is Rivera, how does that affect the credibility of her

other claims? And her comparisons of Cubans was total non sequitur, since Rivera was Peruvian.

== I showed other photos besides that one. I thought it was him, too. So what? it was many years ago. I went to the Internet to seek photos of Rivera...as I recollected a man who was NOT a Negro...thought he was a Cuban. Half the people in New Orleans who spoke Spanish were either Cuban or from Mexico. If anything, this should serve to prove I did not frantically 'do research" on Rivera before speaking to Edisen. I couild have, if I had been dishonest, and got it all 'correct,' such as that he was from Peru, BUT NOBODY EVER TOLD ME THAT IN 1963. I simply related to Edisen what I remembered, sparse as it was. I did the best I could to rely on memory alone. However, I was not trying to look things up and then invent something. Besides the 'wrong' photo, I did show two others that were on the Internet. .

Be that as it may, I thought he was Cuban...has nothing to do with credibility...I never talked to the man and simply had the impression he was Cuban.. I was giving Adele as much information as I could remember in an effort to support her, for I, too, knew that LHO was to move into his apartment ahead of time: he installed me at 1032 Marengo a week before moving into his apartment on Magazine St. He knew he was going to live at 4905 Magazine when he moved me to my apartment. My sole desire in talking to Adele was to support her as much as I could with what I knew.

She could have talked to me about her objections. Perhaps then she would see that I thought he was Cuban -- nobody ever told me his nationality -- and indeed, I did not look up his life story when I accessed his photos. I do not "do research" on such things as this because my contact and knowledge was so very slight, and 'doing research' would have contaminated the memory I had.

So I did not even look at his biography..

Besides the apartment, that Edisen knew about, I also knew that Rivera had been in New Orleans that summer and had been to the Tulane Medical Library. My sole desire was to support her by assuring her that he had been in New Orleans that summer. She could have spoken to me about her concerns. It would have been the polite thing to do. ==JVB

She forgets that Adele was with Rivera on numerous occasions, while Judyth admits she only

saw from a distance a person she was told was Rivera. So Adele would know him much better

than JVB. I have sent the photo to Adele for comment.

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

JUDYTH REPLIES TO BARB JUNKKARINEN ABOUT A MYSTERIOUS PERSON

I sent some photos found on the Internet --two of them were correct, one was not--and how did that happen?--It was because I did NOT 'do research'-- I knew very little about Rivera and did not think it was honest to 'read about' him. I thought the photo was of him in younger days....My goal was simply to keep my memory uncontaminated.

Therefore, I did not read his biography. That would have given me information I had never had about him. From my memories in 1963, almost everybody who was Hispanic in New Orleans was from Cuba or Mexico. I am being criticized for trying to stick with my memory instead of reading all about the man.

However, my response to Edisen was also based on the supposition that he was Cuban. And Cubans were divided into "whites" and "negroes." He was obviously NOT a "negro" and that is what I conveyed to her, based on the belief that he was a Cuban.

That should have told her that I did not 'do research' on the man, but simply relied on my memory.

Of course I have done additional research on those I knew well, having sometimes to back up what I knew with what was available. For example, I stated that Dave Ferrie and Lee were the same height but when challenged, I asked for access to Ferrie's autopsy to prove it.

On the other hand, I knew nothing about Rivera except the slight amount of information I was able to convey to Edisen. She received my uncontaminated memory. That was my goal. I replied to her question about skin color based on my knowledge of CUBANS not Peruvians. All she had to do was to honestly tell me her concerns about my answer, I would have gone into more detail--that Cubans were thus divided by race--and she would have realized I thought he was a Cuban. Then she would have understood why I said so clearly that he was "white" (not a Cuban Negro). Instead, she decided I did not see him, though I am pretty sure I did.==

JVB

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I have made a number of posts invisible pending a decision as to what thread they are more appropriate in, if any (they currently appear to be off-topic). I'll also be moving posts regarding ballistics, etc, to the ballistics thread.

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Adele doesn't need any support from JVB or anyone.

She can stand on her own, as she always has.

The best thing JVB can do or say about Adele is nothing, and to leave her alone.

Trying to mix up their stories will only confuse things, as would be the intention.

Bill Kelly

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JVB is quite an accomplished tap-dancer.

The time of day is 7:54 a.m.

Jack

JUDYTH RESPONDS:

Edisen also has the impression that I said Ochsner introduced him to me. HOWEVER, DR. RIVERA WAS

MENTIONED IN A PRIVATE INTERVIEW WITH DR. OCHSNER at Charity Hospital. While he introduced me,

insofar as making me aware of him, because I had to go to the east Louisiana Mental Hospital, the intro

was NOT not face-to-face.

How can you be "introduced" to someone without meeting them? It would be like my telling people I had been introduced to Barack Obama because someone made me aware of him. This is absolute nonsense.

Doug Weldon

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QUOTE (Garu BuellJudyth initially suggests that the 2001 email was perhaps invented. She maintains that she never used the americanwebworks address and later she questios the header. However @ eventually she acknowledges writing the email while mantaining that the circumcision paragraph was added or altered. But if there was an original email then why alter the web address or header? As Stephen Roy said earlier, Howard Platzman could perhaps settle this as he was copied on the email.

Judyth says that "60 Minutes" had asked her the same question in 1999,which makes sense, and if she has any evidence as to her answer to them I would be most interested in seeing it. [:lol:

Professor Fetzer has said that the matter is moot as LHO was "partially circumcised."[/b] I do not find this argument persuasive. It seems to me that Judyth, if her claims are true, would answer "yes" or "no" on the question and not both at different times. -- Gary Buell

Partial Circumcision. What a crock. I think Jim Fetzer would come up with anything to prove himself right. He's been far-fetched in the past when, imo, he said there was a beam placed on top of one of our satellites on Sept. 11 to bring the buildings down faster than free-fall.

Does anyone else think this is a possibility? Maybe some do. To me it's "out there." If you don't see things his way, he attacks you, throughout this thread.

Kathy C

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