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Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile


Guest James H. Fetzer

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I spoke with Dr. Kathleen Santi today.

In many posts throughout this thread, Fetzer has mentioned Dr. Kathi Santi as one who has verified a couple elements of Judyth's story ... he has mentioned both that Judyth wanted to go to medical school at Tulane in New Orleans, and that Judyth was in pre-med courses at the U Florida Gainesville.

Dr. Santi is a nice lady, and I appreciate her taking the time to speak with me for a few minutes.

I introduced myself and told her I was doing some claim verification research and that she had been referenced as a person who

has verified a couple of assertions made by someone who has written about things they were involved in back in the 60s.

She asked ... much to my surprise ... if that would be Judy Vary Baker. I said yes it would be, and we laughed. I asked her how that name popped into her mind and she said she couldn't think of anyone else someone would be asking her about. I had a momentary sinking feeling that perhaps she had been plagued with phone calls recently, but she said no, not at all.

Judyth contacted her about a year ago, and has sent "occasional" emails since then. Dr. Santi commented

on what an interesting story Judyth has, and said that she has pre-ordered the book.

She asked me if I was writing a book about Judyth and I said no ... that I am involved in discussions on her

story and I was just doing some claim verification.

Dr. Santi said that, yes, Judyth had talked about her dream of going to medical school at Tulane.

Dr. Santi said, yes, she knew Judyth was in pre-med classes.

I asked her if she knew Judyth from being in some of the those classes together... if there might be some standard core pre-med classes that they were both in. She said, no, that she knew Judyth because they were in the same dorm. She said there were a few of them in that dorm that were pre-med.

I asked if the school tried to get like majors/interests together in dorms as I know from personal experience some schools do.

She laughed and said, no, it just happened to be the cheapest dorm on campus.

She said that she and Judyth never had a class together, she just knew her from the dorm. I asked if she knew if Judyth was auditing these pre-med courses or if she was enrolled in them. She said she knew Judyth was enrolled in the pre-med classes.

And she knew it because Judyth told her she was.

Dr. Santi also said that Judyth wouldn't have been in the same classes she was because Judyth had that "tremendous science background" and that she

(Dr. Santi) had nothing coming in, so she thought Judyth would have been in more advanced classes.

Dr. Santi said she didn't know anything about Judyth's classes, her other activities (I mentioned sports and J having written for a school paper), and she did not know, or know about, her boyfriend/fiance Robert Baker. Dr. Santi commented that she was working her way through school and between classes and working, she didn't have time for anything else.

We spoke for just about 10 minutes in all.

Some of my thoughts...

Dr. Santi being referenced for verifying Judyth wanted to go to medical school at Tulane did not surprise me. But I found Dr. Santi being referenced as verifying Judyth being in pre-med classes particularly interesting. And that is because, in her first published book, Judyth never claimed to be enrolled in pre-med classes ... she claimed that she was enrolled in standard freshman classes *as a cover* so she could be doing her secret research. Judyth said that she didn't even have to attend these classes and that grades were just randomly assigned by computer. She commented in her book how "profoundly embarrassing" it was that the computer gave her a "D" in chemistry. Judyth did mention pre-med classes in her book ... not having to attend her "cover" classes, she says she ***audited*** pre-med classes and tended to her secret research.

So that is odd.

Also odd, imo, is Dr. Santi's comment that Judyth would be in more advanced pre-med classes than she was because of Judyth's "tremendous science background." Pre-med has required courses for someone working toward getting into medical school... most places, pre-med is not a major, students go after degrees in assorted sciences, and knowing what all the requirements are going to be for the med school they hope to get into. Nothing in Judyth's unique and outstanding science pursuits in high school would have taken the place of standard level pre-med courses or courses required for one of the science degrees. Her time at the Roswell Park summer program would not have done that either, and she only attended St. Francis College in Indiana for about 8 weeks before withdrawing in the Fall of 1961 ... earning no credits there. She entered the U Florida Gainesville with 0 college credits.

"The person on the rolls was a cipher, of interest to no one.The person auditing pre-med classes, conducting research and working for professors and investigators on several campus labs was also me." ~ Judyth Vary Baker, in Lee Harvey Oswald The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy By His Lover, p33.

Barb :-)

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Am I the only person who finds it extremely strange that this otherwise highly intelligent woman has

devoted more than 10 years of her life to a brief period of about 4 months nearly 50 years ago,

promoting entirely unverifiable information for some unknown personal satisfaction? This seems

so abnormal to most of us as to appear irrational. Even if her various claims were true, which

seems unlikely since she appears in not a single document regarding Oswald, her tales are so

peripheral to the assassination as to be meaningless. So what is her motive? To be noticed?

To sell her story? To become famous? To sell her tales to a movie maker? To most of us, what

she has been doing for a good portion of her life makes no sense to a normal person. That she

is unable to lead a normal life seems a path of her own choice.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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I HAVE A LAW DEGREE BUT AM NOT LICENSED TO PRACTICE LAW. MAYBE THAT WAS THE POINT OF CONFUSION.

So you went to all the trouble to become a Doctor of Jurisprudence, and then did not take the bar exam? Or did you take it and not pass?

Jack

Jack:

Many people go to law school and never practice law. I don't know Dean's situation but many people who would have been great attorneys never pass the bar exam and there are idiots (some people might point to me) who do. There really is no rhyme or reason. In Michigan people who literally give up three or four years of their life and thousands of dollars never pass the exam. In Michigan about 70% pass it the first time and in retaking it your odds go way down. Remember how many times JFK Jr, failed the exam and the headlines "The Hunk Flunks." When I took the exam over two days there were people who had gone through law school, done well, taken a bar review course, got to the test, looked at it and literally stood up and walked out crying.

I had a friend who gave up everything, took the bar exam once, and in almost thirty years could never bring himeself to take it again. Again, I have no knowledge of Dean's personal situation, but it does not impress me if one passes or fails the bar exam. I do have a respect and feel a fraternity for those who endured the law school experience. About one half of the people I started with did not finish law school. I am six hours short of the course work for completing a PHD in education and have a masters in educational leadership. However, that experience was "fun" compared to law school.

Doug Weldon

Geraldo Rivera has a law degree and never went that way; instead he decided to tell the news all the while making the news. He's a turncoat. He said LHO killed Pres. Kennedy and there was no conspiracy. And then he got the job as foreign coorespondant for FOX a week later. Can anything seem so obvious? He would not be welcomed in my home.

Kathy C

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Guest James H. Fetzer

This seems to be a perfect example of trying desperately to find something that could be used to discredit Judyth without success.

"Pre-med" is a plan of preparation, not usually designated as a major per-se. Enter "pre-med" and Wikipedia will explain it to you:

Major

At most colleges and universities, students do not have the option of a pre-medical major. A student on a pre-med track

is permitted to choose any undergraduate major in any field of study, so long as certain required courses are completed.

Such courses are generally focused in scientific fields of biology and chemistry, and are necessary for an individual to be

prepared for the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) and satisfy medical school pre-requisite requirements. It is for

this reason students on a pre-med track generally undertake a major associated with one of those fields; however, a large

percentage of medical school matriculants do not major in a science field at all as an undergraduate.[1] An increasing

number of students with a background in humanities have been applying in recent years, a situation applauded by medical

schools.[2]

Similarly for "pre-law". It is not a major per-se but combinations of courses. Judyth did have a "tremendous science background",

which has been copiously documented by newspaper articles about her success and many other indicators. I find it incredible that

this person, Barb Junkkarienen, continues to pose as though she were an objective seeker after truth, when nothing could be more

removed from the truth. She has an appointed task, it appears to me, which is to harass and belittle Judyth to the end of the earth.

I spoke with Dr. Kathleen Santi today.

In many posts throughout this thread, Fetzer has mentioned Dr. Kathi Santi as one who has verified a couple elements of Judyth's story ... he has mentioned both that Judyth wanted to go to medical school at Tulane in New Orleans, and that Judyth was in pre-med courses at the U Florida Gainesville.

Dr. Santi is a nice lady, and I appreciate her taking the time to speak with me for a few minutes.

I introduced myself and told her I was doing some claim verification research and that she had been referenced as a person who

has verified a couple of assertions made by someone who has written about things they were involved in back in the 60s.

She asked ... much to my surprise ... if that would be Judy Vary Baker. I said yes it would be, and we laughed. I asked her how that name popped into her mind and she said she couldn't think of anyone else someone would be asking her about. I had a momentary sinking feeling that perhaps she had been plagued with phone calls recently, but she said no, not at all.

Judyth contacted her about a year ago, and has sent "occasional" emails since then. Dr. Santi commented

on what an interesting story Judyth has, and said that she has pre-ordered the book.

She asked me if I was writing a book about Judyth and I said no ... that I am involved in discussions on her

story and I was just doing some claim verification.

Dr. Santi said that, yes, Judyth had talked about her dream of going to medical school at Tulane.

Dr. Santi said, yes, she knew Judyth was in pre-med classes.

I asked her if she knew Judyth from being in some of the those classes together... if there might be some standard core pre-med classes that they were both in. She said, no, that she knew Judyth because they were in the same dorm. She said there were a few of them in that dorm that were pre-med.

I asked if the school tried to get like majors/interests together in dorms as I know from personal experience some schools do.

She laughed and said, no, it just happened to be the cheapest dorm on campus.

She said that she and Judyth never had a class together, she just knew her from the dorm. I asked if she knew if Judyth was auditing these pre-med courses or if she was enrolled in them. She said she knew Judyth was enrolled in the pre-med classes.

And she knew it because Judyth told her she was.

Dr. Santi also said that Judyth wouldn't have been in the same classes she was because Judyth had that "tremendous science background" and that she

(Dr. Santi) had nothing coming in, so she thought Judyth would have been in more advanced classes.

Dr. Santi said she didn't know anything about Judyth's classes, her other activities (I mentioned sports and J having written for a school paper), and she did not know, or know about, her boyfriend/fiance Robert Baker. Dr. Santi commented that she was working her way through school and between classes and working, she didn't have time for anything else.

We spoke for just about 10 minutes in all.

Some of my thoughts...

Dr. Santi being referenced for verifying Judyth wanted to go to medical school at Tulane did not surprise me. But I found Dr. Santi being referenced as verifying Judyth being in pre-med classes particularly interesting. And that is because, in her first published book, Judyth never claimed to be enrolled in pre-med classes ... she claimed that she was enrolled in standard freshman classes *as a cover* so she could be doing her secret research. Judyth said that she didn't even have to attend these classes and that grades were just randomly assigned by computer. She commented in her book how "profoundly embarrassing" it was that the computer gave her a "D" in chemistry. Judyth did mention pre-med classes in her book ... not having to attend her "cover" classes, she says she ***audited*** pre-med classes and tended to her secret research.

So that is odd.

Also odd, imo, is Dr. Santi's comment that Judyth would be in more advanced pre-med classes than she was because of Judyth's "tremendous science background." Pre-med has required courses for someone working toward getting into medical school... most places, pre-med is not a major, students go after degrees in assorted sciences, and knowing what all the requirements are going to be for the med school they hope to get into. Nothing in Judyth's unique and outstanding science pursuits in high school would have taken the place of standard level pre-med courses or courses required for one of the science degrees. Her time at the Roswell Park summer program would not have done that either, and she only attended St. Francis College in Indiana for about 8 weeks before withdrawing in the Fall of 1961 ... earning no credits there. She entered the U Florida Gainesville with 0 college credits.

"The person on the rolls was a cipher, of interest to no one.The person auditing pre-med classes, conducting research and working for professors and investigators on several campus labs was also me." ~ Judyth Vary Baker, in Lee Harvey Oswald The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy By His Lover, p33.

Barb :-)

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Guest James H. Fetzer

Why would it be strange for an intelligent woman who was involved in very controversial events

in New Orleans, who had fallen in love with the man who would be falsely accused to murdering

the 35th President of the United States, to make every effort she possibly could to bring the truth

to the attention of the people of the United States, even at enormous personal expense, including

constant harassment, attempts on her life, having to live in exile, and coping with a huge volume

of baseless attacks from the likes of Barb Junkklarinen, Doug Weldon, Jack White, and others on

this thread? She had lived without confronting this until her children were grown and on their own

and she watched Oliver Stone's film, "JFK", which affected her quite profoundly. She could no longer

have a clear conscience and remain silent. She began to speak out but with no understanding of the

consequences. Her apartment was burglarized in Bulgaria, she was robbed in The Netherlands, and

again in Texas. She would have more documents and records to substantiate her case but for events

of these kinds. No one would voluntarily choose such a life unless they were profoundly committed

to the truth about an innocent man, whom she had loved. What I cannot abide is all of these cheap

attacks by closed minds who have never acknowledged anything good about Judyth, even though

those who know her the best are her strongest supporters. And meaningless drivel like this from

my dear friend does nothing to convince me that he would give her a fair shake, no matter what.

Am I the only person who finds it extremely strange that this other highly intelligent woman has

devoted more than 10 years of her life to a brief period of about 4 months nearly 50 years ago,

promoting entirely unverifiable information for some unknown personal satisfaction? This seems

so abnormal to most of us as to appear irrational. Even if her various claims were true, which

seems unlikely since she appears in not a single document regarding Oswald, her tales are so

peripheral to the assassination as to be meaningless. So what is her motive? To be noticed?

To sell her story? To become famous? To sell her tales to a movie maker? To most of us, what

she has been doing for a good portion of her life makes no sense to a normal person. That she

is unable to lead a normal life seems a path of her own choice.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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This seems to be a perfect example of trying desperately to find something that could be used to discredit Judyth without success.

"Pre-med" is a plan of preparation, not usually designated as a major per-se. Enter "pre-med" and Wikipedia will explain it to you:

Major

At most colleges and universities, students do not have the option of a pre-medical major. A student on a pre-med track

is permitted to choose any undergraduate major in any field of study, so long as certain required courses are completed.

Such courses are generally focused in scientific fields of biology and chemistry, and are necessary for an individual to be

prepared for the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) and satisfy medical school pre-requisite requirements. It is for

this reason students on a pre-med track generally undertake a major associated with one of those fields; however, a large

percentage of medical school matriculants do not major in a science field at all as an undergraduate.[1] An increasing

number of students with a background in humanities have been applying in recent years, a situation applauded by medical

schools.[2]

Similarly for "pre-law". It is not a major per-se but combinations of courses. Judyth did have a "tremendous science background",

which has been copiously documented by newspaper articles about her success and many other indicators. I find it incredible that

this person, Barb Junkkarienen, continues to pose as though she were an objective seeker after truth, when nothing could be more

removed from the truth. She has an appointed task, it appears to me, which is to harass and belittle Judyth to the end of the earth.

Uh ... that's what I said. "most places, pre-med is not a major, students go after degrees in assorted sciences, and knowing what all the requirements are going to be for the med school they hope to get into. "

That's no attack on Judyth. Nor is noting that her exceptional science achievements in high school were not anything that would allow her to skip ahead courses in college... like chemistry, physics, anatomy and physiology, math and other science courses. If there was a "Growing cancer cells in mice 101" ... she probably wouldn't have had to take the course.

Bizarre. I know you have this need to attack me at every turn, but given that I spoke to and reported on a witness you've been dangling (whom you never bothered to speak to) who confirmed what you have been saying, makes this attack look pretty gloopy.

Edited by Barb Junkkarinen
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Jim...how can you possibly FIND FAULT with the interview of Dr. Santi?

The interview reveals nothing either pro or con about JVB. She confirmed

she was an acquaintance of JVB. She confirmed parts of her story. She

had NO OPINION on nearly everything regarding JVB...but is interested

enough that she has ordered the book. She apparently did not know JVB

very well.

She comes off as a quite neutral witness. But I suppose for Judyth that

is bad, huh?

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Good for you, Barb! I take it all back and assert the opposite. You have done well. Great work. Thanks!

This seems to be a perfect example of trying desperately to find something that could be used to discredit Judyth without success. "Pre-med" is a plan of preparation, not usually designated as a major per-se. Enter "pre-med" and Wikipedia will explain it to you:

Major

At most colleges and universities, students do not have the option of a pre-medical major. A student on a pre-med track is permitted to choose any undergraduate major in any field of study, so long as certain required courses are completed. Such courses are generally focused in scientific fields of biology and chemistry, and are necessary for an individual to be prepared for the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) and satisfy medical school pre-requisite requirements. It is for this reason students on a pre-med track generally undertake a major associated with one of those fields; however, a large percentage of medical school matriculants do not major in a science field at all as an undergraduate.[1] An increasing number of students with a background in humanities have been applying in recent years, a situation applauded by medical

schools.[2]

Similarly for "pre-law". It is not a major per-se but combinations of courses. Judyth did have a "tremendous science background", which has been copiously documented by newspaper articles about her success and many other indicators. I find it incredible that this person, Barb Junkkarienen, continues to pose as though she were an objective seeker after truth, when nothing could be more removed from the truth. She has an appointed task, it appears to me, which is to harass and belittle Judyth to the end of the earth.

Uh ... that's what I said. "most places, pre-med is not a major, students go after degrees in assorted sciences, and knowing what all the requirements are going to be for the med school they hope to get into. "

That's no attack on Judyth. Nor is noting that her exceptional science achievements in high school were not anything that would allow her to skip ahead courses in college... like chemistry, physics, anatomy and physiology, math and other science courses. If there was a "Growing cancer cells in mice 101" ... she probably wouldn't have had to take the course.

Bizarre. I know you have this need to attack me at every turn, but given that I spoke to and reported on a witness you've been dangling (whom you never bothered to speak to) who confirmed what you have been saying, makes this attack look pretty gloopy.

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Guest James H. Fetzer

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN (WITH MORE TO COME)

NOTE: This seems to be a nice example of how Junkkarinen likes to make slight

alterations to the evidence in order to create a false target to attack. Judyth has

more to say about her latest posts, which I think will explain to Jack why I take

nothing from Junkkarinen at face value. She is very devious and misleading in

her posts, as I read them, which means that she is an untrustworthy source. I

believe that Doug Weldon has been misled from time to time by relying upon

posts from Barb. They are not reliable and should never be taken for granted.

JUDYTH REPLIES:

BJ has again made a misrepresentation. This is getting tiresome:

BJ WROTE:

"She reports one suggestion she made to this witness in her introductory remarks

to those she was sending these "highlights" to. That is very troubling as well. It

was when she was relating that McGehee told her he had the impression that

Oswald was in a big black car with Ferrie and Shaw, and she writes,

"I suggested that perhaps others had tried to influence him about that incident

prompting a false memory, but he said no, he had not been influenced by anyone."

==WHERE DO YOU GET THIS QUOTE FROM, BJ? WHAT OCCURRED IS THAT A

RESEARCHER SAID HE HAD A FALSE IMPRESSION ABOUT OSWALD IN THE OLD

CAR, AND THAT ACTUALLY HE HAD SEEN OSWALD IN A BLACK CADILLAC, AND

MCGEHEE SAID HE WAS PRESSURED TO SAY THAT, WHEN THAT WAS NOT HIS

IMPRESSION AT ALL, THAT I SHOULD LOOK AT HIS FIRST STATEMENTS, NOT

HIS LATER ONES, BECAUSE HE FELT HE HAD BEEN PRESSURED TO CHANGE

HIS STORY.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE COMPLAINED OF.

IN FACT, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO 'REMOVED ' THE 'WOMAN' FROM THE CAR

ARE THE ONES WHO ALSO REPORTED THE CHANGED DETAILS IN MCGEHEE'S

STORY.

I REPEAT, MCGEHEE SAID OTHERS TRIED TO INFLUENCE HIM. I DID NOT SAY

THAT TO HIM, HE SAID IT TO ME.

GET IT STRAIGHT.

SHOW US THE ENTIRE SOURCE AND QUOTATION YOU GOT THIS FROM, BJ.

JVB==

This is absolutely worthless! Judyth is taking her own testimony and is repeatedly tainting the witness, It sounds like she had prepped him also, otherwise why would he say:

Baker: I don't know what you were able to see in the car.

McGehee: Just saw the back of your head. That was all I saw.

"your head?" She's even telling him it was a two toned car!

If this is an example of how she prepped and approached Lewis and other witnesses it is far worse than I thought. Her paper on cancer could have been taken from an encyclopedia at the time. I look for evidence and there is nothing. Again, I would be happy to interview Lewis and tape it.

Doug Weldon

Exactly. And I agree ... if this is her approach to interviewing a witness ... none of their statements can be used for much of anything. And we do know that Judyth found and spoke with Lewis before the New Orleans meeting with other researches when Debra Conway made the videotape of Lewis.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN (WITH MORE TO COME)

NOTE: This seems to be a nice example of how Junkkarinen likes to make slight

alterations to the evidence in order to create a false target to attack. Judyth has

more to say about her latest posts, which I think will explain to Jack why I take

nothing from Junkkarinen at face value. She is very devious and misleading in

her posts, as I read them, which means that she is an untrustworthy source. I

believe that Doug Weldon has been misled from time to time by relying upon

posts from Barb. They are not reliable and should never be taken for granted.

Actually, what this is a nice example of is you popping off a shot at me prematurely and managing only to shoot yourself in the bee-hind. For the second time today, no less. The first time you leaped to the keyboard before you read everything I had said in my post. This time you go in for the kill without knowing whether or not Judyth's sayso was accurate, but go full throttle ahead and pile accusations of playing fast and loose with evidence upon my character anyway.

If you are going to *ever* accuse me of altering evidence or being an unreliable source, I suggest you engage a little of that critical thinking you preach to everyone about and make sure you've got the goods and can pony up the proof for your allegations. Don't hold your breath though, because it will never happen, that is not the way I roll .. *ever*. It is not me who has a reputation for being an unreliable source. :-) One would think you would have learned by now about running on nothing but Judyth's sayso ... LOL!

JUDYTH REPLIES:

]BJ has again made a misrepresentation. This is getting tiresome:

BJ WROTE:

"She reports one suggestion she made to this witness in her introductory remarks

to those she was sending these "highlights" to. That is very troubling as well. It

was when she was relating that McGehee told her he had the impression that

Oswald was in a big black car with Ferrie and Shaw, and she writes,

"I suggested that perhaps others had tried to influence him about that incident

prompting a false memory, but he said no, he had not been influenced by anyone."

==WHERE DO YOU GET THIS QUOTE FROM, BJ? WHAT OCCURRED IS THAT A

RESEARCHER SAID HE HAD A FALSE IMPRESSION ABOUT OSWALD IN THE OLD

CAR, AND THAT ACTUALLY HE HAD SEEN OSWALD IN A BLACK CADILLAC, AND

MCGEHEE SAID HE WAS PRESSURED TO SAY THAT, WHEN THAT WAS NOT HIS

IMPRESSION AT ALL, THAT I SHOULD LOOK AT HIS FIRST STATEMENTS, NOT

HIS LATER ONES, BECAUSE HE FELT HE HAD BEEN PRESSURED TO CHANGE

HIS STORY.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE COMPLAINED OF.

IN FACT, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO 'REMOVED ' THE 'WOMAN' FROM THE CAR

ARE THE ONES WHO ALSO REPORTED THE CHANGED DETAILS IN MCGEHEE'S

STORY.

I REPEAT, MCGEHEE SAID OTHERS TRIED TO INFLUENCE HIM. I DID NOT SAY

THAT TO HIM, HE SAID IT TO ME.

GET IT STRAIGHT.

SHOW US THE ENTIRE SOURCE AND QUOTATION YOU GOT THIS FROM, BJ.

My pleasure. It's an 8 page email. Here is the first page.

And you are correct ... it is tiresome. But according to the document *you* wrote, it is not me who is misrepresenting anything. :-)

Now that I have responded to your request by posting this document, it's your turn. Turn about is fair play and all that, right?

Please have Jim post a couple of the documents from the "sheaf" you claim to have, and that you quoted from in a BlackOp radio interview, that you said showed the apportionment of assorted grants and funds for your research while at the U Fl Gainesville.

And since you are already questioning things posted about your "highlights" email about your McGehee interview ... get that tape out here so we can all hear exactly what was said and how it was said.

I know you want to get all your proofs out, you have stated many times in the past that you know how important proof and documentation is. So, what better time than here and now to tend to some things, like the two I mentioned above ... as well as the other questions that have been asked in this thread.

Barb

This is absolutely worthless! Judyth is taking her own testimony and is repeatedly tainting the witness, It sounds like she had prepped him also, otherwise why would he say:

Baker: I don't know what you were able to see in the car.

McGehee: Just saw the back of your head. That was all I saw.

"your head?" She's even telling him it was a two toned car!

If this is an example of how she prepped and approached Lewis and other witnesses it is far worse than I thought. Her paper on cancer could have been taken from an encyclopedia at the time. I look for evidence and there is nothing. Again, I would be happy to interview Lewis and tape it.

Doug Weldon

Exactly. And I agree ... if this is her approach to interviewing a witness ... none of their statements can be used for much of anything. And we do know that Judyth found and spoke with Lewis before the New Orleans meeting with other researches when Debra Conway made the videotape of Lewis.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Edited by Barb Junkkarinen
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JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN (WITH MORE TO COME)

NOTE: This seems to be a nice example of how Junkkarinen likes to make slight

alterations to the evidence in order to create a false target to attack.

Professor,

Do you mean to say Barb has altered quotes from members and/or external sources? If so, could you highlight an example please? Thank you.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Evan,

This has become unbelievably convoluted, but my impression is that Barb

implied that JUDYTH had put pressure on McGeehee to alter his testimony

when he was talking about OTHERS who had pressured him. I will ask for

more clarification from Judyth about this and, if I am mistaken, then I will

acknowledge that and apologize to Barb. But that is the basis of my claim,

which I thought was clear from the post to which the remark was prefaced.

Jim

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN (WITH MORE TO COME)

NOTE: This seems to be a nice example of how Junkkarinen likes to make slight

alterations to the evidence in order to create a false target to attack.

Professor,

Do you mean to say Barb has altered quotes from members and/or external sources? If so, could you highlight an example please? Thank you.

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JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN (WITH MORE TO COME)

NOTE: This seems to be a nice example of how Junkkarinen likes to make slight

alterations to the evidence in order to create a false target to attack. Judyth has

more to say about her latest posts, which I think will explain to Jack why I take

nothing from Junkkarinen at face value. She is very devious and misleading in

her posts, as I read them, which means that she is an untrustworthy source. I

believe that Doug Weldon has been misled from time to time by relying upon

posts from Barb. They are not reliable and should never be taken for granted.

Actually, what this is a nice example of is you popping off a shot at me prematurely and managing only to shoot yourself in the bee-hind. For the second time today, no less. The first time you leaped to the keyboard before you read everything I had said in my post. This time you go in for the kill without knowing whether or not Judyth's sayso was accurate, but go full throttle ahead and pile accusations of playing fast and loose with evidence upon my character anyway.

If you are going to *ever* accuse me of altering evidence or being an unreliable source, I suggest you engage a little of that critical thinking you preach to everyone about and make sure you've got the goods and can pony up the proof for your allegations. Don't hold your breath though, because it will never happen, that is not the way I roll .. *ever*. It is not me who has a reputation for being an unreliable source. :-) One would think you would have learned by now about running on nothing but Judyth's sayso ... LOL!

JUDYTH REPLIES:

]BJ has again made a misrepresentation. This is getting tiresome:

BJ WROTE:

"She reports one suggestion she made to this witness in her introductory remarks

to those she was sending these "highlights" to. That is very troubling as well. It

was when she was relating that McGehee told her he had the impression that

Oswald was in a big black car with Ferrie and Shaw, and she writes,

"I suggested that perhaps others had tried to influence him about that incident

prompting a false memory, but he said no, he had not been influenced by anyone."

==WHERE DO YOU GET THIS QUOTE FROM, BJ? WHAT OCCURRED IS THAT A

RESEARCHER SAID HE HAD A FALSE IMPRESSION ABOUT OSWALD IN THE OLD

CAR, AND THAT ACTUALLY HE HAD SEEN OSWALD IN A BLACK CADILLAC, AND

MCGEHEE SAID HE WAS PRESSURED TO SAY THAT, WHEN THAT WAS NOT HIS

IMPRESSION AT ALL, THAT I SHOULD LOOK AT HIS FIRST STATEMENTS, NOT

HIS LATER ONES, BECAUSE HE FELT HE HAD BEEN PRESSURED TO CHANGE

HIS STORY.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE COMPLAINED OF.

IN FACT, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO 'REMOVED ' THE 'WOMAN' FROM THE CAR

ARE THE ONES WHO ALSO REPORTED THE CHANGED DETAILS IN MCGEHEE'S

STORY.

I REPEAT, MCGEHEE SAID OTHERS TRIED TO INFLUENCE HIM. I DID NOT SAY

THAT TO HIM, HE SAID IT TO ME.

GET IT STRAIGHT.

SHOW US THE ENTIRE SOURCE AND QUOTATION YOU GOT THIS FROM, BJ.

My pleasure. It's an 8 page email. Here is the first page.

And you are correct ... it is tiresome. But according to the document *you* wrote, it is not me who is misrepresenting anything. :-)

Now that I have responded to your request by posting this document, it's your turn. Turn about is fair play and all that, right?

Please have Jim post a couple of the documents from the "sheaf" you claim to have, and that you quoted from in a BlackOp radio interview, that you said showed the apportionment of assorted grants and funds for your research while at the U Fl Gainesville.

And since you are already questioning things posted about your "highlights" email about your McGehee interview ... get that tape out here so we can all hear exactly what was said and how it was said.

I know you want to get all your proofs out, you have stated many times in the past that you know how important proof and documentation is. So, what better time than here and now to tend to some things, like the two I mentioned above ... as well as the other questions that have been asked in this thread.

Barb

This is absolutely worthless! Judyth is taking her own testimony and is repeatedly tainting the witness, It sounds like she had prepped him also, otherwise why would he say:

Baker: I don't know what you were able to see in the car.

McGehee: Just saw the back of your head. That was all I saw.

"your head?" She's even telling him it was a two toned car!

If this is an example of how she prepped and approached Lewis and other witnesses it is far worse than I thought. Her paper on cancer could have been taken from an encyclopedia at the time. I look for evidence and there is nothing. Again, I would be happy to interview Lewis and tape it.

Doug Weldon

Exactly. And I agree ... if this is her approach to interviewing a witness ... none of their statements can be used for much of anything. And we do know that Judyth found and spoke with Lewis before the New Orleans meeting with other researches when Debra Conway made the videotape of Lewis.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Barb is correct. I think Judyth needs to respond to ALL of this in addition to other questions she has refused to answer and proofs, i.e. the Mary ferrell tape and LHO writing analysis, that have not been presented.

Doug Weldon

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Guest James H. Fetzer

JUDYTH REPLIES ABOUT JACK'S MULTIPLE MISUNDERSTANDINGS

NOTE: Come on, Jack! This (about the Nobel prize winners) is old hat. It is among the

earliest documented aspects of Judyth's stellar performance as a student of science. I

am appalled that you are so ignorant of the basics of her life story, yet persist in making

one post after another based upon it. In the post to which Judyth responds, you commit

mistake after mistake. I am sorry, my friend, but you really are unqualified to be taking

a prominent role as one of Judyth's leading critics. You know almost nothing about her.

JACK WHITE WROTE (and I respond in bold face ==like this==):

Am I the only person who finds it extremely strange that this otherwise highly intelligent

woman has devoted more than 10 years of her life to a brief period of about 4 months

==SEVEN MONTHS, NOT FOUR-==

nearly 50 years ago,

==36 YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST SPOKE OUT==

promoting entirely unverifiable information

==ENTIRELY UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION? ==

for some unknown personal satisfaction?

==TO EXONERATE AN INNOCENT MAN WHO LOVED ME AND WHOM I LOVED,

AS HAS BEEN STATED ON THIS FORUM MANY TIMES==

This seems so abnormal to most of us as to appear irrational.

=="THERE YOU GO AGAIN." (R. REAGAN)==

Even if her various claims were true, which

seems unlikely since she appears in not a single document regarding Oswald,

==SINCE SHE POSED AS MARINA OSWALD==

her tales are so

peripheral to the assassination as to be meaningless.

==MR. WHITE HAS NOT READ THE BOOK.

HE SAYS 'HER TALES (DERISIVELY) ARE SO PERIPHERAL TO THE ASSASSINATION

AS TO BE MEANINGLESS...." REALLY?

1) LEE CALLS ME AND SAYS HE IS GOING TO BE BLAMED AS THE PATSY, 37 1/2

HOURS BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION...THAT'S MEANINGLESS?

2) HE TELLS ME THAT LYNDON JOHNSON'S SCANDALS ARE ONE REASON FOR THE

VICE PRESIDENT WANTING THE ASSASSINATION TO YAKE PLACE--IS THIS ALSO

MEANINGLESS?

3) HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF TO ME AS AN AGENT BORROWED BY THE CIA AND ALSO

USED BY THE FBI--IS THIS MEANINGLESS, TOO?

4) I REPORTED THAT HE TOLD ME HOW HE TRIED TO SAVE KENNEDY--AND HE

REPORTED THAT HE WAS SUCCESSFUL ONCE (WE NOW HAVE ABRAHAM BOLDEN

TO VERIFY THAT) -- HIS REPORTED ATTEMPTS TO SAVE KENNEDY ARE MEANINGLESS?

5) LEE TOLD ME HE PENETRATED THE ASSASSINATION RING AT RISK OF HIS LIFE--

THAT IS MEANINGLESS, TOO?

6) MEANINGLESS, THAT HE WAS INVOLVED IN A GET-CASTRO PROJECT WITH ME, AND

THAT THE PROJECT MAY HAVE BEEN USED TO LURE HIM INTO POSITION IN MEXICO CITY

SO HE COULD THEN BE LINKED TO A FAKE SOVIET ASSASSINATON PLAN AGAINST KENNEDY?

7) MEANINGLESS, THAT I HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT REILY WAS A COVER JOB FOR

LEE OSWALD, SHOWING HE WAS DELIBERATELY PLACED THERE? THAT I INSIST THE

TSBD JOB WAS ALSO A COVER JOB, AS LEE TOLD ME? WHO PLACED HIM AT THE TSBD?

ON PURPOSE. LEE TOLD ME THE TSBD JOB WAS ANOTHER COVER JOB. THAT IS NOT

MEANINGLESS WHEN WE REALIZE HE WAS PLACED IN POSITION TO BE ABLE TO BE

BLAMED AS THE ASSASSIN.

NOTE: I HAVE OFFERED LEE'S WORK RECORD FOR NOV. 22 SHOWING A FULL EIGHT HOURS

OF WORK ON THE WORKSHEET, EVEN THOUGH LEE WAS ARRESTED BEFORE 1:30 PM. THIS

INDICATES THAT LEE COULD COME AND GO AND WAS STILL BEING GIVEN 8 HOURS OF WORK

CREDIT, SO ALL THE ARGUMENTS THAT LEE WAS 'ON THE JOB' WHEN CERTAIN SGHTINGS

WERE MADE MUST BE RE-EXAMINED.

BUT GO AHEAD, KEEP ON SAYING I HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER TO ENLIGHTEN US ABOUT

LEE'S ROLE IN THE ASSASSINATION, AS A WITNESS TO WHOM HE CONFIDED, UP TO 37

1/2 HOURS BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION.==

So what is her motive? To be noticed?

==IS THAT ALL YOU CAN THINK OF? I HAVE TURNED DOWN MORE INTERVIEWS THAN

YOU CAN IMAGINE. I WOULD NOT BE LIVING OVERSEAS IN THE MOST COLD AND REMOTE

PLACE YOU CAN IMAGINE, EITHER, IN ORDER TO BE NOTICED. SWEDISH AUTHORITIES

KNOW I HAD TO FLEE FOR MY LIFE. THEY ASSISTED ME UNTIL MY FAMILY WAS ABLE TO

PROVIDE SAFE HAVENS FOR ME. I DID NOT POST AT THE EDUCATION FORUM FOR FIVE

YEARS. ONLY AT THE BEHEST OF DR. FETZER DID I COMMUNICATE HERE AGAIN. I HAVE

TURNED DOWN TV AND RADIO INTERVIEWS FOR YEARS, TIRED OF ATTACKS LIKE YOURS.==

To sell her story?

==I TURNED DOWN A BIG OFFER FROM NATIONAL ENQUIRER AND CUT THE LEGS OFF THE

PHOTO THAT THEY WANTED TO PUBLISH. I WENT TO "60 MINUTES", KNOWING THEY PAID

NOTHING. MY MOTIVES ARE PURE.==

To become famous?

==TO EXONERATE AN INNOCENT MAN. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS "VOICE4VINDICATION." BUT

AS DR. FETZER OBSERVED. YOU HAD MADE UP YOUR MIND, AND ARGUING WITH YOU MAKES

YOU TWICE THE ENEMY YOU WERE BEFORE, BECAUSE YOUR HEART IS COLD STONE ABOUT ME

AND CANNOT CHANGE, EVER. FOREVER.==

To sell her tales to a movie maker?

==I 'SOLD MY TAKE' FREE TO NIGEL TURNER. AND THE PERSON WHO HAS THE FILM RIGHTS

KNOWS MY TERMS--I WANT NOTHING FOR ME!==

To most of us, what

she has been doing for a good portion of her life makes no sense to a normal person.

==USE 'NORMAL' AND AGAIN IMPLY THAT I AM NOT. HOWEVER, THE GREATEST PORTION OF MY

LIFE WAS SPENT

1) TEACHING (15 YEARS);

2) RAISING FIVE GOOD CITIZENS (21 YEARS);

3) BEING A NEWSPAPER REPORTER (6 YEARS), WHOSE CIVIC EFFORTS PLACED MY NAME ON A

MONUMENT IN THE CITY OF STAFFORD, TEXAS IN 1976 (BICENTENNIAL);

4) WORKING AS A MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR, AS A SOCIAL WORKER AND AS A CHILD ABUSE

INVESTIGATOR FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS;

5) ON THE SIDE, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AN ARTIST AND POET, WITH ART WORKS SOLD WORLDWIDE,

SINCE MY FORMER HUSBAND TRAVELED VERY WIDELY AS A GEOLOGIST;

6) I OBTAINED THREE UNIVERSIY DEGREES, ONE IN ANTHROPOLOGY, AND HAVE LED SEVERAL

ARCHEOLOGICAL DIGS;

7) RAISED OVER 150 SERVICE DOG AND/OR TRAINED THEM FOR THE BLIND AND HANDICAPPED;

8) WAS A VOLUNTEER AT THE RICHMOND STATE SCHOOL FOR THE BLIND, IN RICHMOND, TEXAS,

FOR NINE YEARS; AND,

9) I SPENT 17 YEARS IN THE MORMON CHURCH TEACHING WOMEN, TEACHING CHILDREN, HELPING

THE POOR, WORKING HARD IN ECOLOGY MATTERS.

THIS PAST DECADE OF MY LIFE HAS BEEN A SAD ONE. I DARED SPEAK OUT ABOUT MY PAST AND

THE ROLE OF LEE IN MY LIFE. MY REPUTATION WAS THEN SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROYED BY PEOPLE

SUCH AS YOU.

ALL THE GOOD WORKS I DID HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN AS PEOPLE SUCH AS YOU, WHO NEVER MET ME,

CONTINUE TO CLAIM THAT I AM SOME KIND OF ATTENTION-SEEKING NUT CASE. IT IS HUMAN NATURE

FOR PEOPLE TO ASSUME THAT WHERE THERE ARE ACCUSATIONS, THERE MUST BE GOOD REASONS

FOR THE ACCUSATIONS, BUT YOU HAVE HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.

YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE, AS WE WELL KNOW. YOUR MIND WAS MADE UP FROM THE MOMENT YOU

TOLD EVERYBODY HERE THAT I WAS A MENTAL CASE, ACCORDING TO THE 'ANALYSIS' OF A FRIEND

OF YOURS. YOUR HEART IS STONE AND WILL NEVER, EVER CHANGE.==

That she is unable to lead a normal life seems a path of her own choice.

==TELL ME WHERE I CAN LIVE SAFELY IN AMERICA, JACK WHITE?

DID YOU HAVE THE HISTORY CHANNEL DECLARE (THIS YEAR) CLAIM THAT YOU HAD INVENTED AIDS?

DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF WHAT KIND OF HATE EMAIL I RECEIVED FROM THAT?

DID DAVID LIFTON EVER PUT YOUR NAME OUT THERE AS A FRIEND OF OSAMA? NOT SO LONG AFTER

NINE ELEVEN?

DID YOU EVER HAVE HUNGARIAN AGENTS APPROACH YOU AND TELL YOU TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY?

HAVE YOU EVER RECEIVED DEATH THREATS ON THE PHONE? HAD YOUR DOG SHOT?

HAD YOUR CAR'S BRAKE LINE CUT?

YOUR HEART IS STONE AND WILL NEVER CHANGE. YOU ONLY SEE WHAT YOU DECIDE TO SEE.==

Jack

Judyth is being advised by Nobel Prize Winners? Please tell us more. Which ones?

At the same time, please clarify her statement that Judyth's IQ test showed that she

had the highest IQ of anyone in the state of Florida.

These unsupported claims weaken her credibility.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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THIS PAST DECADE OF MY LIFE HAS BEEN A SAD ONE. I DARED SPEAK OUT ABOUT MY PAST AND

THE ROLE OF LEE IN MY LIFE. MY REPUTATION WAS THEN SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROYED BY PEOPLE

SUCH AS YOU.

ALL THE GOOD WORKS I DID HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN AS PEOPLE SUCH AS YOU, WHO NEVER MET ME,

CONTINUE TO CLAIM THAT I AM SOME KIND OF ATTENTION-SEEKING NUT CASE. IT IS HUMAN NATURE

FOR PEOPLE TO ASSUME THAT WHERE THERE ARE ACCUSATIONS, THERE MUST BE GOOD REASONS

FOR THE ACCUSATIONS, BUT YOU HAVE HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.

Here she goes again - Judyth, the victim. All those who have asked highly relevant questions - to which no relevant answers have ever been produced - are the ones to blame. Not only is it utterly wrong. It is downright offensive of JVB to make statements like this about researchers like Jack.

Give people answers instead of these ridiculous victim stories - and you would not have to worry about your reputation. When I asked you about your asylum stories, all you can come up with is an assorted line of accusations towards me.

And you think others are damaging your reputation?

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