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Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile


Guest James H. Fetzer

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JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK ABOUT IQs AND NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS

NOTE: As I have previously observed, this is old hat, Jack. This has been discussed

before and the same article I am reposting below appeared earlier on this thread. I

think it would be great if you were to pay more attention to these posts. Thank you.

JUDYTH RESPONDS:

RE THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS WORKING WITH ME: THESE MATERIALS WERE VETTED

EARLY ON. I NO LONGER EVEN OWN THEM, HERE OVERSEAS. BUT THE ONE ARTICLE I

CAN PROVIDE FROM HERE, I HAVE THE QUOTE--WHICH IS BELOW--FROM THE ARTICLE.

AS FOR THE STATEMENT OF 'HIGHEST IQ IN FLORIDA' --I HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE THAT

IS WRONG AND YOU KEEP REPEATING IT. WAS RANKED NUMBER ONE IN IQ AMONG HIGH

SCHOOL STUDENTS IN FLORIDA IN 1960 IN FLORIDA WHO TOOK THE WEEK-LONG NATIONAL

TEST SERIES IN PROJECT TALENT .

MACKLE CORPORATION SPONSORED LOTS OF EVENTS AND GAVE OUT LOTS OF SCHOLARSHIPS

THROUGHOUT THE 1960S . IT OCCURRED IN MELBOURNE. I WAS SIXTEEN AND EVEN SYDNEY

WILKINSON SAW THE PHOTO AND SPECIFICS AS RECENTLY AS 2007.

A LOT OF EVENTS HAVE OCCURRED IN THE WORLD THAT ARE NOT ON THE INTERNET. The 35th

science writer seminar is on the internet, but try to find

Abstracts: Novel therapies dominate American Cancer Society's 35th ...

Innovations in therapy were discussed at the 35th Annual American Cancer Society's Science Writers Seminar. A drug currently being tested may inhibit cancer ...

www.faqs.org/.../Novel-therapies-dominate-American-Cancer-Societys-35th-Annual-Science-Writers-Seminar.html - Cached - Similar

THE 4TH SCIENCE WRITER'S SEMINAR, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH I ATTENDED, IS MENTIONED

ON THE INTERNET. BUT TRY TO FIND SOME OF THE OTHERS. THEY WERE HELD EVERY YEAR,

BUT MANY ARE MISSING FROM THE INTERNET RECORD.

THE QUOTATION OF THE ARTICLE I HAPPEN TO HAVE AT HAND (THERE WERE OTHERS), SAYS,

"WITH TWO NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS, AND LEADERS IN CANCER RESEARCH, JUDY VARY...

RECENTLY ATTENDED..."

5dovh3.jpg

IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE).

THE ROBINSONS --HUSBAND AND WIFE-- ARE IN ANOTHER ARTICLE AS PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION

MONEY FOR ME TO GO TO ROSWELL PARK IN BUFFALO, WHERE, BY THE WAY, HIS SECOND WIFE AND

HE OWNED A HOME: .

"In 1912 Sir Robert married Gertrude Maud Walsh, a fellow student at Manchester University. They

collaborated in several fields of chemical research, notably in a survey of anthocyanins. She died in

1954; they had one son and one daughter. In 1957, he married Stearn Sylvia Hillstrom (née Hershey)

of New York REF: nobelprize.org/.../1947/robinson-bio.html

THIS WAS BUFFALO, NEW YORK. I LIVE OVERSEAS AND DO NOT HAVE THESE ARTICLES WITH ME, BUT

THE EDITORS OF MY BOOK TRACKED DOWN EVERY DETAIL AND ARTICLE.

robinson_postcard.jpg

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1947 was awarded to Sir Robert Robinson "for his investigations on plant

products of biological importance, especially the alkaloids".

NEWSPAPER ARTICLES MENTION THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS AND ONE TELLS US THE ROBINSONS

PAID FOR MY TRIP TO BUFFALO, NEW YORK.

JVB

Jim...I have not seen this before. So I googled MACKLE CORPORATION IQ TESTS FLORIDA 1960s,

and could find NOTHING indicating that a "Mackle Corporation" had conducted such testing.

So could Judyth provide documentation for this, instead of just saying it?

This reply also fails to name the NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS who support her story.

Therefore this reply is non-responsive to the questions, which are NOT trick questions nor attacks.

Jack

Jack,

I thought I had already addressed the Nobel question. It appears to me

you have been very casual about reading posts on this thread. That's too

bad. Here's what Judyth has sent in response to your question about IQ.

I discuss IQ scores and intelligence in THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE.

Jim

REPLY TO JACK:

At the same time, please clarify her statement that Judyth's IQ test showed

'that she had the highest IQ of anyone in the state of Florida.

==I already answered this. Didn't Jack read the answer when he brought it

up the first time? I stated that Mackle Corporation feted we kids who scored

highest in Project Talent in the State of Florida, a nationwide IQ and cognitive

testing program where students were assessed in their high schools for a full

week....I was ranked #1 on that series of tests: we were lined up and photo-

graphed. But high IQ means little if not given the opportunity to excel. There

are many other people out there who are smarter than I am who also never

got their chance to help humanity, my big dream.==

Doug,

At this juncture, I don't think that the proper venue would be Jim Fetzer's show. (No offense, Jim). In order for a public interview to be conducted properly I would think that a much more "neutral venue" is preferred.

I just spoke with Len Osanic. He agreed to have both Doug and Judyth on Black Op Radio. The purpose of the show will be to have a non-confrontational "question and answer" session.

Neither he nor I want a "knock down drag out" show! So, it needs to be cordial, but NOT restrained. Respectful adversity is acceptable.

Also, due to the "time difference" it might be preferable to pre-record the show so that Judyth is not forced to participate at 4:00am (her time) for a "live" show that will be on the air at 6:00 pst.

Well, any takers?

Excellent, Greg. And you are as spot on about a "neutral venue" as Doug is in his response that this needs to be Judyth, on her own, speaking spontaneously, for herself.

Many of us have questions we have asked ... and would like to ask ... Judyth. Doug could certainly handle that. Pre-recording because of time differences is a fine idea ... as long as the recording is not edited in any way.

Kudos to you for thinking of this.

Barb :-)

I can assure you that there will be no editing at all.

Pipedream. The last thing JVB wants is impartial intelligent questions by an unbiased emcee.

She does not want to be asked about the "Nobel scientists" who back her. Who are they?

She does not want to reveal why she claims to have the highest IQ in Florida. How was this determined?

Jack

There is a huge difference between saying that Nobel Prize winners "worked with you" and "IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE."

Is Judyth suggesting that these Nobel Prize winners were so fascinated with her work that they took a special trip to her high school for the sole purpose of checking out her work in a newspaper and her year book article?

I have a picture (honestly) of me hitting Muhammed Ali in the jaw. Is it fair for me to tell people that he went down to the ground as if he were shot, he begged me not to hurt him, and that I am the greatest boxer who ever lived? I also ran a race where I ran step for step with Frank Shorter for over a mile.(again true) Does that mean I can tell people I could have won the Olympic marathon? Judyth would.

Doug Weldon

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RE: The proposed Black Op program:

I would like Baker to expand on this a bit, from her unauthorized book, pages 615-617:

"In early November, Lee's concern for Kennedy's safety increased. 'I was invited to help test security problems at Love Field,' he told me. 'I was to see where hiding places might be, things like that. What was I doing - helping or hindering - when I gave my report?' Lee spent a week checking out Love Field in every aspect. He'd be picked up and taken there, then returned discreetly to the TSBD building a few hours later...After their work at Love Field, other locations were also investigated. Lee was working with a Secret Service agent. 'I'm the trusted local native,' Lee explained. 'In a way, it's an honor to help scout out Kennedy's route, as well as emergency routes. The agent and me, we've become friends,' he added, a bit proudly. 'I think I can trust him'...Ironically, Lee, himself, soon to be thrust into the role of accused lone assassin, made many recommendations for the sake of the safety of the President."

Lee Harvey Oswald was a consultant to the Secret Service on Kennedy's motorcade route and safety procedures?

I understand what Karl, Greg and David are saying, but I don't buy it.

Why would the Secret Service need to consult with a "trusted local native" at all? They had an office in the D/FW area staffed with professionals, and they also used advance agents on this trip. (Vince Palamara, does this make sense??)

Why would the Secret Service pick a guy who, despite living in the area at various times in the past, had only been in the area for about a month, and thus was not up to date on any current threats? Why would they pick a guy with no known expertise in security or presidential protection?

What are the odds that the Secret Service would choose to consult with the very guy who would be accused of killing the president whose security was at stake? Could that have been covered up for more than 45 years without a hint?

Stephen,

Just for clarity, I don't buy that at all either. Not for a second. The Secret Service was NOT actually employing his assistance. The part that I don't find far fetched is the possibility that "he was under the impression" that he was being somehow helpful. Again, as the patsey, he was likely told many things that were untrue by those who were setting him up to take the fall. This might be a detail that could be true. It makes no difference to my personal research work whether true or false. But, if he was told this falsehood and he told it to Judyth, she appears to erroneously believe it was true, and is now reporting from memory. I see that as possible, but not necessarily probable.

Monk:

For many reasons I don't want to detail here (as I do not want Judyth to modify her story) there is virtually little or no chance that this happened or could have happened. If you had stated that it has some remote plausibility I could accept that. However, again, the only suggestion for this remote possibility is Judyth alone, whose account now and claim that she even knew Oswald is far from even remotely plausible. Judyth wants only to go on Coast to Coast and have everyone yuk it up with her as she tells her heartwrenching account with Jim and Ed on another line screaming "amen" in chorus, only to have you come in for levity before the commercial breaks to provide some humor with your JFK impressions. She then hopes her book will sell, she'll get some national attention and then, as she suggested earlier, she will be able to sell the movie rights. I would suggest Daniel Craig (the new James Bond actor) for the role of Oswald but he lacks the charm, sex appeal. and sophistication to play the part in a realistic manner.

Doug Weldon

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Monk:

For many reasons I don't want to detail here (as I do not want Judyth to modify her story) there is virtually little or no chance that this happened or could have happened.

Oh boy, here we go again! First off, Doug--to what are you referring? Like I said, I think it is "possible" that the designated "patsy" was misled by his "handlers" --don't you? And, if so, it is possible that this was his impression. I have NO PROBLEM WITH THAT--and neither should you. However, I'm not saying that--if true--it corroberates Judyth's claims! It does nothing of the sort! It is POSSIBLE--and, in a sense, it is consistent with a patsy's role and (mis)understanding of their own misguided role. This story could have been easily invented by Judyth--no doubt--because it is entirely consistent with events that would be expected to have occured, IMO. I did not say "I am sold" or that it confirms anything about her story though!

If you had stated that it has some remote plausibility I could accept that.

I said, "It is possible, but not necessarily probable." I think that is close enough, since I don't claim to have "super human" powers of prescience, I suppose. :o)

However, again, the only suggestion for this remote possibility is Judyth alone, whose account now and claim that she even knew Oswald is far from even remotely plausible.

I agree, she is again making claims that cannot be (or at least have not yet been) substantiated. I am not claiming these are true, Doug. I am claiming that I DO NOT KNOW--one way or the other. I am similar to you, in my thinking, though. Normally, given just the hard evidence (or lack thereof), and without any direct interaction with the individual, I almost certainly would respond as you have to her. I no longer have that option...but I do respect your position--more than you may know.

Judyth wants only to go on Coast to Coast and have everyone yuk it up with her as she tells her heartwrenching account with Jim and Ed on another line saying "amen" in chorus...

Objection. Does counsel wish to testify as to the intentions of the witness? You don't need to speculate, Doug.

...only to have you come in for levity before the commercial breaks to provide some humor with your JFK impressions.

Look, Doug--it isn't my personal business to care when you denigrate Judyth's character--have at it, although that is beneath you. But, do not attempt to paint me as one who would be easily duped and used as "Captain Dunsel" as that role is beneath me --and I don't like the implication.

She then hopes her book will sell, she'll get some national attention and then, as she suggested earlier, she will be able to sell the movie rights.

This would be a fallacious argument if it had a point or conclusion, but it has no point. If you were to complete your book, appear on Coast to Coast, and subsequently enjoyed increased book sales as a result, which led to a movie deal--would those things have any bearing on the veracity of the content of your book/story? Obviously not. I get your frustration, Doug, but resorting to .... isn't worth it.

I would suggest Daniel Craig (the new James Bond actor) for the role of Oswald but he lacks the charm, sex appeal. and sophistication to play the part in a realistic manner.

Doug Weldon

Whatever.

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Monk:

For many reasons I don't want to detail here (as I do not want Judyth to modify her story) there is virtually little or no chance that this happened or could have happened.

Oh boy, here we go again! First off, Doug--to what are you referring? Like I said, I think it is "possible" that the designated "patsy" was misled by his "handlers" --don't you? And, if so, it is possible that this was his impression. I have NO PROBLEM WITH THAT--and neither should you. However, I'm not saying that--if true--it corroberates Judyth's claims! It does nothing of the sort! It is POSSIBLE--and, in a sense, it is consistent with a patsy's role and (mis)understanding of their own misguided role. This story could have been easily invented by Judyth--no doubt--because it is entirely consistent with events that would be expected to have occured, IMO. I did not say "I am sold" or that it confirms anything about her story though!

If you had stated that it has some remote plausibility I could accept that.

I said, "It is possible, but not necessarily probable." I think that is close enough, since I don't claim to have "super human" powers of prescience, I suppose. :o)

However, again, the only suggestion for this remote possibility is Judyth alone, whose account now and claim that she even knew Oswald is far from even remotely plausible.

I agree, she is again making claims that cannot be (or at least have not yet been) substantiated. I am not claiming these are true, Doug. I am claiming that I DO NOT KNOW--one way or the other. I am similar to you, in my thinking, though. Normally, given just the hard evidence (or lack thereof), and without any direct interaction with the individual, I almost certainly would respond as you have to her. I no longer have that option...but I do respect your position--more than you may know.

Judyth wants only to go on Coast to Coast and have everyone yuk it up with her as she tells her heartwrenching account with Jim and Ed on another line saying "amen" in chorus...

Objection. Does counsel wish to testify as to the intentions of the witness? You don't need to speculate, Doug.

...only to have you come in for levity before the commercial breaks to provide some humor with your JFK impressions.

Look, Doug--it isn't my personal business to care when you denigrate Judyth's character--have at it, although that is beneath you. But, do not attempt to paint me as one who would be easily duped and used as "Captain Dunsel" as that role is beneath me --and I don't like the implication.

She then hopes her book will sell, she'll get some national attention and then, as she suggested earlier, she will be able to sell the movie rights.

This would be a fallacious argument if it had a point or conclusion, but it has no point. If you were to complete your book, appear on Coast to Coast, and subsequently enjoyed increased book sales as a result, which led to a movie deal--would those things have any bearing on the veracity of the content of your book/story? Obviously not. I get your frustration, Doug, but resorting to .... isn't worth it.

I would suggest Daniel Craig (the new James Bond actor) for the role of Oswald but he lacks the charm, sex appeal. and sophistication to play the part in a realistic manner.

Doug Weldon

Whatever.

Monk:

I am tryng to inject some humor into this mess. I am not suggesting you would be duped by anyone. I do not believe that anyone could dupe you. I am not trying to denigrate Judyth's character but I am simply pointing out after all this time that it is difficult to believe anything. If "denigrating" is saying that she has not offered any substantial proofs for her story I will admit to such. The burden is on her. Any speculation is based on her statements. She does not want to face legitimate questions. Coast to Coast is not a confrontational program.

As to:

I said, "It is possible, but not necessarily probable." I think that is close enough, since I don't claim to have "super human" powers of prescience, I suppose. :o)

However, again, the only suggestion for this remote possibility is Judyth alone, whose account now and claim that she even knew Oswald is far from even remotely plausible.

I agree, she is again making claims that cannot be (or at least have not yet been) substantiated. I am not claiming these are true, Doug. I am claiming that I DO NOT KNOW--one way or the other. I am similar to you, in my thinking, though. Normally, given just the hard evidence (or lack thereof), and without any direct interaction with the individual, I almost certainly would respond as you have to her. I no longer have that option...but I do respect your position--more than you may know.

You and I are on the same page.

Doug Weldon

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Thanks, Doug...for putting the right interpretation on the news clipping. I might

add that I had lunch with the TCU football coaches last fall. I sat right in the midst

of them and was able to ask them questions. I was only about 10 feet away from

Coach Patterson. I now consider myself equipped to coach the Horned Frogs in

their opening game in September.

Uhhhhh... I should mention that I was one of 500 Frog Club supporters at a

campus luncheon. Uhhhhh...does that make any difference?

Jack

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK ABOUT IQs AND NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS

NOTE: As I have previously observed, this is old hat, Jack. This has been discussed

before and the same article I am reposting below appeared earlier on this thread. I

think it would be great if you were to pay more attention to these posts. Thank you.

JUDYTH RESPONDS:

RE THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS WORKING WITH ME: THESE MATERIALS WERE VETTED

EARLY ON. I NO LONGER EVEN OWN THEM, HERE OVERSEAS. BUT THE ONE ARTICLE I

CAN PROVIDE FROM HERE, I HAVE THE QUOTE--WHICH IS BELOW--FROM THE ARTICLE.

AS FOR THE STATEMENT OF 'HIGHEST IQ IN FLORIDA' --I HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE THAT

IS WRONG AND YOU KEEP REPEATING IT. WAS RANKED NUMBER ONE IN IQ AMONG HIGH

SCHOOL STUDENTS IN FLORIDA IN 1960 IN FLORIDA WHO TOOK THE WEEK-LONG NATIONAL

TEST SERIES IN PROJECT TALENT .

MACKLE CORPORATION SPONSORED LOTS OF EVENTS AND GAVE OUT LOTS OF SCHOLARSHIPS

THROUGHOUT THE 1960S . IT OCCURRED IN MELBOURNE. I WAS SIXTEEN AND EVEN SYDNEY

WILKINSON SAW THE PHOTO AND SPECIFICS AS RECENTLY AS 2007.

A LOT OF EVENTS HAVE OCCURRED IN THE WORLD THAT ARE NOT ON THE INTERNET. The 35th

science writer seminar is on the internet, but try to find

Abstracts: Novel therapies dominate American Cancer Society's 35th ...

Innovations in therapy were discussed at the 35th Annual American Cancer Society's Science Writers Seminar. A drug currently being tested may inhibit cancer ...

www.faqs.org/.../Novel-therapies-dominate-American-Cancer-Societys-35th-Annual-Science-Writers-Seminar.html - Cached - Similar

THE 4TH SCIENCE WRITER'S SEMINAR, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH I ATTENDED, IS MENTIONED

ON THE INTERNET. BUT TRY TO FIND SOME OF THE OTHERS. THEY WERE HELD EVERY YEAR,

BUT MANY ARE MISSING FROM THE INTERNET RECORD.

THE QUOTATION OF THE ARTICLE I HAPPEN TO HAVE AT HAND (THERE WERE OTHERS), SAYS,

"WITH TWO NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS, AND LEADERS IN CANCER RESEARCH, JUDY VARY...

RECENTLY ATTENDED..."

5dovh3.jpg

IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE).

THE ROBINSONS --HUSBAND AND WIFE-- ARE IN ANOTHER ARTICLE AS PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION

MONEY FOR ME TO GO TO ROSWELL PARK IN BUFFALO, WHERE, BY THE WAY, HIS SECOND WIFE AND

HE OWNED A HOME: .

"In 1912 Sir Robert married Gertrude Maud Walsh, a fellow student at Manchester University. They

collaborated in several fields of chemical research, notably in a survey of anthocyanins. She died in

1954; they had one son and one daughter. In 1957, he married Stearn Sylvia Hillstrom (née Hershey)

of New York REF: nobelprize.org/.../1947/robinson-bio.html

THIS WAS BUFFALO, NEW YORK. I LIVE OVERSEAS AND DO NOT HAVE THESE ARTICLES WITH ME, BUT

THE EDITORS OF MY BOOK TRACKED DOWN EVERY DETAIL AND ARTICLE.

robinson_postcard.jpg

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1947 was awarded to Sir Robert Robinson "for his investigations on plant

products of biological importance, especially the alkaloids".

NEWSPAPER ARTICLES MENTION THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS AND ONE TELLS US THE ROBINSONS

PAID FOR MY TRIP TO BUFFALO, NEW YORK.

JVB

Jim...I have not seen this before. So I googled MACKLE CORPORATION IQ TESTS FLORIDA 1960s,

and could find NOTHING indicating that a "Mackle Corporation" had conducted such testing.

So could Judyth provide documentation for this, instead of just saying it?

This reply also fails to name the NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS who support her story.

Therefore this reply is non-responsive to the questions, which are NOT trick questions nor attacks.

Jack

Jack,

I thought I had already addressed the Nobel question. It appears to me

you have been very casual about reading posts on this thread. That's too

bad. Here's what Judyth has sent in response to your question about IQ.

I discuss IQ scores and intelligence in THE EVOLUTION OF INTELLIGENCE.

Jim

REPLY TO JACK:

At the same time, please clarify her statement that Judyth's IQ test showed

'that she had the highest IQ of anyone in the state of Florida.

==I already answered this. Didn't Jack read the answer when he brought it

up the first time? I stated that Mackle Corporation feted we kids who scored

highest in Project Talent in the State of Florida, a nationwide IQ and cognitive

testing program where students were assessed in their high schools for a full

week....I was ranked #1 on that series of tests: we were lined up and photo-

graphed. But high IQ means little if not given the opportunity to excel. There

are many other people out there who are smarter than I am who also never

got their chance to help humanity, my big dream.==

Doug,

At this juncture, I don't think that the proper venue would be Jim Fetzer's show. (No offense, Jim). In order for a public interview to be conducted properly I would think that a much more "neutral venue" is preferred.

I just spoke with Len Osanic. He agreed to have both Doug and Judyth on Black Op Radio. The purpose of the show will be to have a non-confrontational "question and answer" session.

Neither he nor I want a "knock down drag out" show! So, it needs to be cordial, but NOT restrained. Respectful adversity is acceptable.

Also, due to the "time difference" it might be preferable to pre-record the show so that Judyth is not forced to participate at 4:00am (her time) for a "live" show that will be on the air at 6:00 pst.

Well, any takers?

Excellent, Greg. And you are as spot on about a "neutral venue" as Doug is in his response that this needs to be Judyth, on her own, speaking spontaneously, for herself.

Many of us have questions we have asked ... and would like to ask ... Judyth. Doug could certainly handle that. Pre-recording because of time differences is a fine idea ... as long as the recording is not edited in any way.

Kudos to you for thinking of this.

Barb :-)

I can assure you that there will be no editing at all.

Pipedream. The last thing JVB wants is impartial intelligent questions by an unbiased emcee.

She does not want to be asked about the "Nobel scientists" who back her. Who are they?

She does not want to reveal why she claims to have the highest IQ in Florida. How was this determined?

Jack

There is a huge difference between saying that Nobel Prize winners "worked with you" and "IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE."

Is Judyth suggesting that these Nobel Prize winners were so fascinated with her work that they took a special trip to her high school for the sole purpose of checking out her work in a newspaper and her year book article?

I have a picture (honestly) of me hitting Muhammed Ali in the jaw. Is it fair for me to tell people that he went down to the ground as if he were shot, he begged me not to hurt him, and that I am the greatest boxer who ever lived? I also ran a race where I ran step for step with Frank Shorter for over a mile.(again true) Does that mean I can tell people I could have won the Olympic marathon? Judyth would.

Doug Weldon

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Barb:

... "Have you ever had a dream where you dreamed the whole world was having a party and you were not invited?" ...

Doug Weldon

On the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, George Gobel once asked: "Did you ever feel life was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?"

Indeed...

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ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE OBSERVATIONS OF MY PSY OPS EXPERT:

[snip]...

So basically it is important for anyone investigating their story not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater", just because the water gets a little dirty.

Indeed...Moreover, don't throw the "bathwater [evidence] out with the baby" simply becuse the "baby" may have made human errors! Evidence is evidence irresective of the "baby" responsible for supplying it.

Judyth has been subjected to threats and libel, even though she is a documented witness to LHO in NOLA in the summer of 1963. Yes, her situation is complex; the 'research community' that did everything to discredit and destroy her while then blaming her for the fact that she had no choice but to leave the US to survive, and was hounded even while in asylum definitely plays a part in this. It seems that you too may be comfortable blaming the victim of the attacks rather than acknowledging the reason for them in the first place, which was most likely protection at all costs of Marina's testimony to the WCR and, thus, the WCR itself, not to mention keeping the doors shut to the underbelly of the assassination in NOLA that summer.

You could, if you wished, take Judyth's statements and compare them with those of Adele Edison who was allowed to come forward and give her testimony. If you are objective, you may see eery coincidences and other eye-opening leads that may help underline the significance of what each of them has to say.

Except that if Judyth really was a victim of crimes and being pursued to the ends of the earth and the source of libel cases being filed there would be additional official records and suspects, but there isn't.

While some independent researchers I trust are getting new information, documents and new witnesses from information they say JVB has provided, and it is panning out, I still haven't seen it, other than the previously published but uncited book that refers to the Koon Kreek Klub, one nugget that I had never heard of before.

And there is no comparison betwen the two, despite their apparently similar medical research background. Dr. Edisen just spent a week in Washington D.C. at her own expense, not to call attention to her story, promote a book, sell her movie rights or increase the references to her on the internet, but rather she lobbied Congressmen to fullfill their responsibilities and oversee the JFK Act, release the JFK assassination records and determine what became of the records that were destroyed and are missing.

Over the years she has quietly given us everything she knows and has led us to dozens of records, witnesses and suspects, including SAIC NO SS John W. Rice, FBI liason to SS Orrin Bartlett, Dr./Col. Jose Rivera, Dr. Lamana and others we are still researching and will be for many more years. And she now has nothing to fear in that she has told us, and testified before the ARRB, and we now have the additional records obtained by the ARRB, so we've taken her information beyond even what she knew, so she's no longer vulnerable.

And I insist that this thread not intermingle JVB's story with any other unconnected witness, as I think that if JVB is tangled up with psych-warriors then one purpose would be to pollute what we know to be the truth.

BK

Speaking of Koon Kreek Klub, I have compiled some links and tidbits here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...f127490f566103f

Newspaper article From April 1957 mentions Oechsner as member of Klub:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1891...;pg=890,1922470

I believe the Klub has changed its name by replacing the K's with C's .....

Regards,

Peter Fokes

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Barb:

... "Have you ever had a dream where you dreamed the whole world was having a party and you were not invited?" ...

Doug Weldon

On the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, George Gobel once asked: "Did you ever feel life was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?"

Indeed...

Indeed, indeed. I think we've all had a moment like that. Loved Lonesome George ... low key with always just the right line at the right moment.

Barb :-)

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The movement to reinvent JVB seems to have run out of steam since she ducked

the proposal to face 1-on-1 questioning by Doug Weldon or Greg Burnham. If this

ever materializes, please wake me up. :blink:

This is the first day in months this subject has not been on page 1 of the forum.

Think how much time this frees up for contemplation of subjects which actually matter.

Jack :blink:

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I had a feeling (and, I think, mentioned it several hundred posts ago) that when Fetzer stopped serial responding (and being insulting), the activity in the thread would go down.

In terms of numbers, a shame...Nearly 3000 posts, surely a record, and nearly as many views as the pinned "Who Killed JFK?"

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JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK ABOUT IQs AND NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS

JUDYTH RESPONDS:

RE THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS WORKING WITH ME: THESE MATERIALS WERE VETTED

EARLY ON. I NO LONGER EVEN OWN THEM, HERE OVERSEAS. BUT THE ONE ARTICLE I

CAN PROVIDE FROM HERE, I HAVE THE QUOTE--WHICH IS BELOW--FROM THE ARTICLE.

THE 4TH SCIENCE WRITER'S SEMINAR, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH I ATTENDED, IS MENTIONED

ON THE INTERNET. BUT TRY TO FIND SOME OF THE OTHERS. THEY WERE HELD EVERY YEAR,

BUT MANY ARE MISSING FROM THE INTERNET RECORD.

THE QUOTATION OF THE ARTICLE I HAPPEN TO HAVE AT HAND (THERE WERE OTHERS), SAYS,

"WITH TWO NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS, AND LEADERS IN CANCER RESEARCH, JUDY VARY...

RECENTLY ATTENDED..."

5dovh3.jpg

IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE).

THE ROBINSONS --HUSBAND AND WIFE-- ARE IN ANOTHER ARTICLE AS PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION

MONEY FOR ME TO GO TO ROSWELL PARK IN BUFFALO, WHERE, BY THE WAY, HIS SECOND WIFE AND

HE OWNED A HOME: .

"In 1912 Sir Robert married Gertrude Maud Walsh, a fellow student at Manchester University. They

collaborated in several fields of chemical research, notably in a survey of anthocyanins. She died in

1954; they had one son and one daughter. In 1957, he married Stearn Sylvia Hillstrom (née Hershey)

of New York REF: nobelprize.org/.../1947/robinson-bio.html

THIS WAS BUFFALO, NEW YORK. I LIVE OVERSEAS AND DO NOT HAVE THESE ARTICLES WITH ME, BUT

THE EDITORS OF MY BOOK TRACKED DOWN EVERY DETAIL AND ARTICLE.

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1947 was awarded to Sir Robert Robinson "for his investigations on plant

products of biological importance, especially the alkaloids".

NEWSPAPER ARTICLES MENTION THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS AND ONE TELLS US THE ROBINSONS

PAID FOR MY TRIP TO BUFFALO, NEW YORK.

JVB

There is a huge difference between saying that Nobel Prize winners "worked with you" and "IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE."

Is Judyth suggesting that these Nobel Prize winners were so fascinated with her work that they took a special trip to her high school for the sole purpose of checking out her work in a newspaper and her year book article?

I have a picture (honestly) of me hitting Muhammed Ali in the jaw. Is it fair for me to tell people that he went down to the ground as if he were shot, he begged me not to hurt him, and that I am the greatest boxer who ever lived? I also ran a race where I ran step for step with Frank Shorter for over a mile.(again true) Does that mean I can tell people I could have won the Olympic marathon? Judyth would.

Doug Weldon

Doug,

It was at this cancer writer's seminar that Judyth met Dr. George Moore from Roswell Park. Dr. Moore along with Dr. Mirand (then the dean at RP) had created the RP summer program for students a few years prior. Dr.Moore was impressed enough to invite Judyth to be the student he would mentor at the summer program later that year. (Each student who attended the summer program was chosen by one of the dept heads to be their mentored student). Dr. Moore was a major cancer researcher at RP and he did invite Judyth. She claims that Moore and others went to her high school to look at her experiment/set up/logs etc. Moore at least would seem feasible, as well as Diehl, who was local, with ACS. She also claims she was not allowed to be present when they checked out her stuff ... that does not sound likely to me. Whether anyone went and looked or not ... she did attend the writer's seminar and Moore did invite her to be his mentored student in the summer program later that year. There is a news clipping that notes that Robinson offered to pay her transportation costs.

But Judyth leaves out something important here ... perhaps this is yet another change in her story. In her book, Judyth claims that she "crashed" the seminar ... and was nearly escorted from the seminar by security ... until she wowed and zowed them of course, then she was invited to attend the remaining days.

In her book, page 11, under a section she titles "I CRASH THE SCIENCE WRITER'S SEMINAR," she writes:

"I was informed the nation's foremost cancer research scientists and top medical reporters were about to convene for the 4th Annual Science Writer's Seminar. Col. Doyle (one of her teachers) said I could attend if he could get me in. He tried, stressing my contacts with Walter Reed and Oak Ridge, but was told only famous doctors and scientists in cancer research and reporters from the major worldwide newspapers were allowed to attend. I thanked Col Doyle for trying to help me, asked my sister and a few friends to take care of my mice, dumped my books into my school locker, and set out to crash the Seminar."

She goes onto to relate that it was 22 miles away and says that,

"Since I was playing hooky, I had to walk it, armed with my research files and my worthless high school newspaper press pass."

A long way to go with causeways and a big bridge to cross, she saw a Trailways bus come "roaring up" and goes on to say,

"I displayed a length of leg, the driver stopped, and I got on, no harm done."

She relates that in the chaos in the lobby, she flashed her high school press pass and was waved inside.

Once inside, she found a seat and though the lights were down,

"...I was quickly noticed. Whispering and pointing began ..... I refused to look at them, keeping my head down ....Just then, a distinguished doctor at the front of the conference hall opened the Seminar.These science writers who should have been paying attention to the slides that began flashing across the screen up front, continued whispering among themselves and turning around to peer at me.

Suddenly there was a pause in the doctor's talk. The slide show came to a halt. I looked up cautiously and saw why: several grumpy-looking men in nice suits were coming toward me , with a policeman. They had decided to evict me. I was being literally lifted from my seat by a security guard when I was spotted by Dr. Harold Diehl, the Vice President of Research for the entire American Cancer Society."

Kind of leaves you breathless with excitement and suspense, doesn't it!?

Long story short, Dr. Diehl and one of the Nobel winners ... Robinson, were so astonished at her pluck for crashing the thing, she was allowed to stay and became the apple of everyone's eye. For the next 3 days of the seminar, she claims,

"...reporters arrived every morning at my high school to take me to the Seminar, and doctors or reporters drove me home."

The newspaper article, saying she was one of two Floridians invited to attend, is much more plausible in my opinion...and she had this amazing crashing the seminar adventure, one would think the newspaper would have seized the moment ... for it would have made for a much more interesting story.

So, several lillies seem to have been gilded here, in my opinion ... including her claims of having been "tutored" by Nobel prize winners. Being at the same conference, meeting and greeting and having lunch, even having her work looked at, etc., is not the same as being under their tutelage. What she was doing as high school student was impressive ... no doubt about that. And some, like Dr. Moore, Robinson and Dr. Diehl, took notice. It opened the door for Judyth to go to the Roswell Park summer program. But her crashing story is a bit much to take, in my opinion. There had already been newspaper articles and photos about Judyth's cancer experiments ... I find it much more plausible that Col. Doyle was able to get her invited to attend ... but that doesn't make for nearly as exciting of a story where she becomes the center of attention from the get-go ... and that is a theme we see over and over again in her story.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK ABOUT IQs AND NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS

JUDYTH RESPONDS:

RE THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS WORKING WITH ME: THESE MATERIALS WERE VETTED

EARLY ON. I NO LONGER EVEN OWN THEM, HERE OVERSEAS. BUT THE ONE ARTICLE I

CAN PROVIDE FROM HERE, I HAVE THE QUOTE--WHICH IS BELOW--FROM THE ARTICLE.

THE 4TH SCIENCE WRITER'S SEMINAR, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH I ATTENDED, IS MENTIONED

ON THE INTERNET. BUT TRY TO FIND SOME OF THE OTHERS. THEY WERE HELD EVERY YEAR,

BUT MANY ARE MISSING FROM THE INTERNET RECORD.

THE QUOTATION OF THE ARTICLE I HAPPEN TO HAVE AT HAND (THERE WERE OTHERS), SAYS,

"WITH TWO NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS, AND LEADERS IN CANCER RESEARCH, JUDY VARY...

RECENTLY ATTENDED..."

5dovh3.jpg

IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE).

THE ROBINSONS --HUSBAND AND WIFE-- ARE IN ANOTHER ARTICLE AS PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION

MONEY FOR ME TO GO TO ROSWELL PARK IN BUFFALO, WHERE, BY THE WAY, HIS SECOND WIFE AND

HE OWNED A HOME: .

"In 1912 Sir Robert married Gertrude Maud Walsh, a fellow student at Manchester University. They

collaborated in several fields of chemical research, notably in a survey of anthocyanins. She died in

1954; they had one son and one daughter. In 1957, he married Stearn Sylvia Hillstrom (née Hershey)

of New York REF: nobelprize.org/.../1947/robinson-bio.html

THIS WAS BUFFALO, NEW YORK. I LIVE OVERSEAS AND DO NOT HAVE THESE ARTICLES WITH ME, BUT

THE EDITORS OF MY BOOK TRACKED DOWN EVERY DETAIL AND ARTICLE.

The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 1947 was awarded to Sir Robert Robinson "for his investigations on plant

products of biological importance, especially the alkaloids".

NEWSPAPER ARTICLES MENTION THE NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS AND ONE TELLS US THE ROBINSONS

PAID FOR MY TRIP TO BUFFALO, NEW YORK.

JVB

There is a huge difference between saying that Nobel Prize winners "worked with you" and "IT DOES NOT SAY I MET THEM. IT SAYS I WAS WITH THEM, ATTENDED THE EVENT WITH THEM,

NOT IN THE AUDIENCE. I SAT IN THEIR MIDST, RIGHT NEXT TO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CANCER

RESEARCH FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, DR. DIEHL. I ATE LUNCHES WITH THEM, WAS

TUTORED BY THEM, THEY WERE FASCINATED WITH MY WORK AND ACTUALLY WENT TO MY HIGH

SCHOOL TO CHECK MY WORK 9ALSO IN A NEWSPAPER OR YEARBOOK ARTICLE."

Is Judyth suggesting that these Nobel Prize winners were so fascinated with her work that they took a special trip to her high school for the sole purpose of checking out her work in a newspaper and her year book article?

I have a picture (honestly) of me hitting Muhammed Ali in the jaw. Is it fair for me to tell people that he went down to the ground as if he were shot, he begged me not to hurt him, and that I am the greatest boxer who ever lived? I also ran a race where I ran step for step with Frank Shorter for over a mile.(again true) Does that mean I can tell people I could have won the Olympic marathon? Judyth would.

Doug Weldon

Doug,

It was at this cancer writer's seminar that Judyth met Dr. George Moore from Roswell Park. Dr. Moore along with Dr. Mirand (then the dean at RP) had created the RP summer program for students a few years prior. Dr.Moore was impressed enough to invite Judyth to be the student he would mentor at the summer program later that year. (Each student who attended the summer program was chosen by one of the dept heads to be their mentored student). Dr. Moore was a major cancer researcher at RP and he did invite Judyth. She claims that Moore and others went to her high school to look at her experiment/set up/logs etc. Moore at least would seem feasible, as well as Diehl, who was local, with ACS. She also claims she was not allowed to be present when they checked out her stuff ... that does not sound likely to me. Whether anyone went and looked or not ... she did attend the writer's seminar and Moore did invite her to be his mentored student in the summer program later that year. There is a news clipping that notes that Robinson offered to pay her transportation costs.

But Judyth leaves out something important here ... perhaps this is yet another change in her story. In her book, Judyth claims that she "crashed" the seminar ... and was nearly escorted from the seminar by security ... until she wowed and zowed them of course, then she was invited to attend the remaining days.

In her book, page 11, under a section she titles "I CRASH THE SCIENCE WRITER'S SEMINAR," she writes:

"I was informed the nation's foremost cancer research scientists and top medical reporters were about to convene for the 4th Annual Science Writer's Seminar. Col. Doyle (one of her teachers) said I could attend if he could get me in. He tried, stressing my contacts with Walter Reed and Oak Ridge, but was told only famous doctors and scientists in cancer research and reporters from the major worldwide newspapers were allowed to attend. I thanked Col Doyle for trying to help me, asked my sister and a few friends to take care of my mice, dumped my books into my school locker, and set out to crash the Seminar."

She goes onto to relate that it was 22 miles away and says that,

"Since I was playing hooky, I had to walk it, armed with my research files and my worthless high school newspaper press pass."

A long way to go with causeways and a big bridge to cross, she saw a Trailways bus come "roaring up" and goes on to say,

"I displayed a length of leg, the driver stopped, and I got on, no harm done."

She relates that in the chaos in the lobby, she flashed her high school press pass and was waved inside.

Once inside, she found a seat and though the lights were down,

"...I was quickly noticed. Whispering and pointing began ..... I refused to look at them, keeping my head down ....Just then, a distinguished doctor at the front of the conference hall opened the Seminar.These science writers who should have been paying attention to the slides that began flashing across the screen up front, continued whispering among themselves and turning around to peer at me.

Suddenly there was a pause in the doctor's talk. The slide show came to a halt. I looked up cautiously and saw why: several grumpy-looking men in nice suits were coming toward me , with a policeman. They had decided to evict me. I was being literally lifted from my seat by a security guard when I was spotted by Dr. Harold Diehl, the Vice President of Research for the entire American Cancer Society."

Kind of leaves you breathless with excitement and suspense, doesn't it!?

Long story short, Dr. Diehl and one of the Nobel winners ... Robinson, were so astonished at her pluck for crashing the thing, she was allowed to stay and became the apple of everyone's eye. For the next 3 days of the seminar, she claims,

"...reporters arrived every morning at my high school to take me to the Seminar, and doctors or reporters drove me home."

The newspaper article, saying she was one of two Floridians invited to attend, is much more plausible in my opinion...and she had this amazing crashing the seminar adventure, one would think the newspaper would have seized the moment ... for it would have made for a much more interesting story.

So, several lillies seem to have been gilded here, in my opinion ... including her claims of having been "tutored" by Nobel prize winners. Being at the same conference, meeting and greeting and having lunch, even having her work looked at, etc., is not the same as being under their tutelage. What she was doing as high school student was impressive ... no doubt about that. And some, like Dr. Moore, Robinson and Dr. Diehl, took notice. It opened the door for Judyth to go to the Roswell Park summer program. But her crashing story is a bit much to take, in my opinion. There had already been newspaper articles and photos about Judyth's cancer experiments ... I find it much more plausible that Col. Doyle was able to get her invited to attend ... but that doesn't make for nearly as exciting of a story where she becomes the center of attention from the get-go ... and that is a theme we see over and over again in her story.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Barb:

Thank you. This is very interesting!

Best.

Doug Weldon

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A long way to go with causeways and a big bridge to cross, she saw a Trailways bus come "roaring up" and goes on to say,

"I displayed a length of leg, the driver stopped, and I got on, no harm done."

Interesting, entertaining, and one of the funniest things I've read here in awhile.

post-5680-1275709262_thumb.gif

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