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Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile


Guest James H. Fetzer
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Interesting idea:

I have never seen anyone interview Marina for a reaction to JVB.

It would be dynamite to book Marina and Judyth for a confrontation on OPRAH.

(no hair pulling please). Sort of like the presidential debates. B)

Get each of them to respond to questions prepared by researchers.

That might settle something.

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

My expert expands on his previous reflections after reading the complete thread. He mentions a book, A TERRIBLE MISTAKE, whose author, H.P. Albarelli Jr., will be my featured guest on "The Real Deal" from 5-7 PM/CT, 15 March 2010, revereradio.net.

_________________________

Jim, I just read the last posts on the educational forum you directed me too. I have now read all of them related to Judyth Vary. I have come to a couple of conclusions:

Most posters do not understand how intel operations are conducted at a higher level. Low level operatives are kept isolated from most decision making which is compartmentalized and narrowly directed as orders and directives. Actual background knowledge of why various min-cointelpro type ops are instituted is usually not communicated to those who are directed to conduct the footwork on these ops.

If there are any posters on the site who DO understand how intel ops are conducted at a higher level, they are not helping to explain the possibilities surrounding Judyth Baker to the other posters, and may even be serving up misinformation to detract from her credibility on purpose.

A lot of harassment of those by intel (mini-cointelpro style, the modus operandi used now against individuals) involves the targeting of an individual for non-obvious reasons (some small detail or loose end that when pulled opens up a whole line of problems that the intel agency does not want uncovered).

Even the most discredited witnesses, even those discredited by their own attempts to create a story that isn't there may have knowledge that is judged to be a danger because of a loose end. So as you know, every bit of a witnesses story needs to be scrutinized in and of itself, even if most parts have been shown to be twisted, tainted or even confabulated. The more folks argue and pick, the more Judyth gets defensive and struggles to provide information to corroborate her claims, all which probably just confound and lead away from what she knows that is really a problem for the intel agency that is stalking her. And we know that at this time there are 37 US intel agencies so we don't know for sure which one has been detailed with her harassment. Since most of the JFK assassination intercept ops were done by the FBI that must be considered. We also know that the JCS ordered the termination of JFK with extreme prejudice and a "signed finding" (by the will of Hoover, LBJ, Nixon, Bush1, Dulles, etc.) and this was likely detailed to the CIA, who like the FBI harassed a lot of the important witnesses, although it is known that mob and cuban operatives were also detailed for some of the dirtiest jobs. Best guess is that her harassment was been detailed to the CIA who just happen to have operatives in France, some working as NOCS and some working as assets which are also completely deniable.

Jim, I agree with you that here has been some very high level influence used against Judyth Vary to harass her, make threats to you and to sidetrack he thread she carries. Where there is smoke there is fire. Why would so much effort be expended to sidetrack and confuse a witness when 90% + of her story doesn't add anything to the JFK murder? It's because of the small thread which probably has nothing to do with the JFK assassination or Oswald.

The more I think about it the more it seems to me that Judyth knows something that is a big problem for intel, and it probably is related to her work before she met Oswald.

In order to figure this out it can be helpful to evaluate what she was working on before she met Oswald and how that could be a loose end relating to current intel operations, which would establish that as a threat to the current operation (which intel works hard to protect at all costs>>>their number 1 goal is to always protect any important current operation and this is done by information control, use of misinformation or disinformation, setting up straw men issues to distract, use of mini-cointelpro type actions, sophisticated harassment which can include use of police, utility workers, psycho-electronic means, drugs, etc.). It is well understood that if a witness is so seriously harassed over time and and driven away from family and friends to be emotionally isolated, it becomes quite easy to elicit psychological and emotional dysfunction, which in and of itself reduces the target's credibility to near zero in most cases. This is called high tech, coordinated PSYOPS. Create isolation, deliver trauma or "blood shock" to create PTSD and then the target is much more suggestible to influence, such as manipulating them down a road making them even more dysfunctional.

So let us take this a bit further. What is the greatest secret that intel in now trying to protect which has a common connection or thread back to Judyth Vary? Where are billions of dollars going into research right now. What is the Pentagon and intel gearing up for in the future?

Jim, I have shared with you the last few months a great deal of information which answers these questions. It relates to high tech biotech, biowarfare and eugenics, the "triple helix"(self-healing super soldier), development of bio-bot war machines, etc. Mary Hartman knows much of the details and has been seriously harassed for walking into the middle of this big ongoing op.

As many know, almost all vaccines are grown in animal media. Polio vaccines have been shown to contain Simian SV-40 virus fragments which have been suspected of causing many different kinds of cancer in recipients later on. Was this a mistake or part of a large scale eugenics secret experiment? And as some medical researchers have suggested, the use of vaccines with servicemen in the Middle East theaters of war may be the largest bioweapon experiment ever devised and implemented. Certainly these vaccines which contained the highly toxic adjuvant squalene may have contributed to so many US soldiers coming back sick. And many suspect the use of depleted uranium in the projectiles was implemented as another experimental biotech/eugenics test. Most know about the Tuskeege experiments, but less know about the current chemtrail ops alleged by some to being run out of the University of Michigan via a DOD bioweapons contract. Samples have been recovered from the planes spraying and these show barium salts, and a mixture of blood cells, haemophilus, and other bugs. The cover story was three fold, allegedly to reflect sunlight to slow the supposed global warming, the bugs to immunize the public against a possible bio weapon attack by foreign terrorists, and the barium to serve as a test for blocking the radar and sensors of foreign governments satellites in orbit to disrupt their spying (to be used in a time of war).

The government was caught releasing bio agents in the NYC subways in the 60's and 70's and placing their own medical folks in nearby hospitals to monitor the effects. We know that the government has engaged in bio and chemical warfare test on the public almost continually since WW2. It was recently documented in newly declassified documents that the CIA drugged a whole town in France with LSD as a test. This was reported in Albarelli's new book, A Terrible Mistake, which is a must read for anyone that wants to know how things really work. The French government just got wind of this and has written a letter to the US Government demanding an explanation. It is rumored that since 5 French folks died because of this, lawsuits and settlements are now likely.

Some top experts have predicted that the wars of the future will be fought by cyber/information warfare, biowarfare, psycho-electronic warfare, satellite telemetried robotic warfare, and independent acting bio-cyber robotic warfare (the buzz word for this is TOTAL SPECTRUM DOMINANCE). There are now over 200 US Patents for stimulation of cortical phenomena from outside the skull at a distance using pulsed beam microwaves and quite a few that have been classified and can't be viewed. The predictions of these insiders are based upon where the government contracts are now being awarded and how the taxpayer funds awarded by Congress and black ops income is being spent.

In cases like Judyth Vary, the reasons for the harassment by intel are usually not what most observers or the target understand. Typically the reasons are to distract from the thread, or provide a complete cover-up of some small thread (even a very small thread) when pulled would or could threaten a current very important operation that the public would not stand for if they became aware. I believe that this thread is biowarfare related and pertains to current top secret DOD biowarfare research, some of which you have been informed of, Jim.

Interesting idea:

I have never seen anyone interview Marina for a reaction to JVB.

It would be dynamite to book Marina and Judyth for a confrontation on OPRAH.

(no hair pulling please). Sort of like the presidential debates. :)

Get each of them to respond to questions prepared by researchers.

That might settle something.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Ed...

I appreciated your post very much. It seems to be the most honest apprasial of the Judyth claims, from a supporter, that I have read. You apparently did not just go with blind faith or just on her say-so, as I had previously believed. I had not intended to say anymore in this thread and had been considering even deleting my posts, since they have only created personal stress to me. I had not been aware that only her supporters were allowed to make their opinions. I have not changed my opinion, but haven't yet decided whether to delete or not. But you have indicated the problems with her claims...which are very real problems. And..whether any of it is actually true or not, some of us ( as for myself anyway) just can't accept much of it as being logical or realistic. ...and for various reasons. It is not at all that I am just a contrarian or trouble maker...and I do hope the truth will eventually be reconciled, no matter which way it goes.

I have ordered her new book...Me and Lee, but it keeps being postponed (just as your Dr Mary's Monkey was postponed for some time, which I also read). You have made a suggestion about having an open mind when reading her new book, because it will be more put together. So, I am going to follow your suggestion and am not going to try and pre-judge it. I did start with that in mind with her other book, but only became more convinced it was all imagination. However, I will give it this last fair attempt. If I should possibly change my current opinions, after reading it, I will be happy to admit I was wrong.

There is something that Jim Fetzer posted above...one of the emails he received....the bottom one, that has struck me. It hits on some areas that I have been studying off and on for a long time.....although unrelated to Judyth. I have only recently began to tie some things to possibly fitting in with Judyth's claims. I also feel there was possibly more then meets the eye, in the event that she is relating some truths..as she knows it to be. I came upon these thoughts, when looking into some claims made by a couple of people from long ago....also from the 60's era.

I have been unable to actually verify my thoughts on this couple yet ...just my own thoughts and findings so far. I am unable to say anymore about it at this time though. Yet, it is actually an attempt to try and reconcile my thought in regard to Judyth as well. If I am possibly right, then she has indeed been through hell. As that email person menrtioined there might possibly be things she is not actually aware of, that is creating all these problems for her. I could also, just be full of crap, but I am looking at it anyway.

Jim....I just finished reading A TERRIBLE MISTAKE, by H.P. Albarelli and really did enjoy reading it. So much information and also quite well written. I will be listening to his interview on your Real Deal, program too.

Dixie

HI Greg (Monk)....great to have you join this forum too. We are in disagreement on this thread....but as you know we are not in disagrement about many other things.

Edited by Dixie Dea
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Jim's anonymous psyop friend makes more sense than anything I have read.

We know such ops exist. Sometimes there are patsies who do not even know

that they are patsies.

It reminds me of LHO in the police station. He knew he was part of some operation,

and thought that his handlers would come to his rescue. Instead, his handlers

considered him expendable. He said...I REQUEST THAT SOMEONE COME FORWARD...

obviously a plea to his handlers. In answer to his request, Jack Ruby came forward.

A clear option is that JVB was also considered an expendable patsy by her handlers,

and it is in their interest to sow confusion.

Jack

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Guest James H. Fetzer

I believe that Jack is mistaken and that the major reason Judyth poses a problem

is that her story of her involvement with Lee completely undermines the official

account of "a lone, demented gunman". Not only was he not a loner, but he was

engaged in a (relatively normal) social life and, as an undercover agent, was

working to PRESERVE the president's life, NOT TAKE IT. So there is more going

on than a casual dismissal would warrant.

In relation to my psy op expert's observations about harassment, no sooner do I

start to show an interest in Judyth than I begin to experience problems with my

blog and posting on the internet. Yesterday this blog was vandalized. Here is

what my webmaster, Lola Heavey, found in the morning:

xfs4fn.jpg

And this is the photograph she had uploaded the day before:

nqa04j.jpg

Neither Lola nor I has been able to comment on YouTube since shortly after we put

up the first blog on Judyth, where our comments are either deleted immediately or

don't show up at all. These are a few examples:

Nuff.png

s3hkep.jpg

That is an excellent contribution, Ed. Many thanks for posting. I have a second blog on Judyth

at http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html, which includes a second

YouTube interview, which is also found at

and JamesFetzerNews, which is located at http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Jack,

Thanks for your questions. I have great admiration for the work that you have done over the years. I will say that I am confident that if you read ME AND LEE with the same "close scrutiny" that you have used to study all those photos, then you will come to reasonable answers... whatever they may be. And I will be interested to hear your thought about them when you do.

From my own experience, I will say that, despite the considerable contact that I had with Judyth since Nov. 2000 and all of the other previous attempts by others to recount her tale, I did not understand "the flow" of her story. While I did think that certain "landmarks" grounded her story (such as the W2 form from Reily Coffee and her time at Roswell Park Cancer Institute), there was still a forest of unanswered questions for me. I found much of her tale "disconnected" and her retelling of it "confusing," particularly on important issues like how she became involved with people like Dr. Alton Ochsner and the erratic path of her college career. I queried Judyth relentlessly about these issues, the gaps in the story, and many other issues. There were many tense moments during this process, and she became frustrated with me at times. But I finally realized this was because there were things that she was reluctant to discuss, some for personal reasons. This process took more time than I anticipated, but eventually what I found was that the key to understanding her New Orleans activities lies in the years before she ever arrived in New Orleans and before she ever met Lee Oswald. I finally realized that understanding what made young "Judy Vary" tick was as important as anything we have heard to date about her romance with Lee Oswald. She was the resource that they needed to create the bio-weapon secretly, and there is nothing glorious or glamorous about killing baby mice, amputating their tumors and grinding them up in a blender. In fact, she became disgusted with what she was doing and realized that she had been lead down the path of evil by those she trusted. In the final analysis, I consider Judyth "a witness," not "a researcher," and I think that her story must be understood in that light. But the questions remain: What insights can we gain from the recollections of this witness? And do they help us understand what happened in Dallas?

Overall, I will say that my view of her Judyth shifted as I read ME AND LEE. The portrait is paints of her is not particularly flattering, but it rings true. And it is a better grounded story than I expected to find. One that makes far more sense than anything I had heard from earlier versions. One whose pieces fit together better than I had expected. One that I hope that you (and the others seriously concerned about this subject) will read with an open mind.

My Best,

Ed Haslam

Thanks, Ed. As I do with all things, I will read ME AND LEE with an open mind.

But as I do with all things, I will be comparing it with previous information which

with which it may conflict. I will also be comparing it with "official records" I know

about. I hope it will answer many unanswered questions without raising others.

When you speak of "earlier versions" I assume you refer to the efforts of

Shackelford and Platzman...which may be the source of much misinformation.

You are unlikely to hear my thoughts, however, as I have concluded that any

discussion of JVB leads to bitter disputes among researchers and is counter-

productive. While perhaps INTERESTING, the JVB story adds nothing, in my

opinion, to solving the crime. But MY opinion matters little in the overall scheme

of things.

Thanks for sharing!

Jack

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That's cool, I didn't take it that way. I'm ignorant of JVB, but thought those in the know may see a connection. If there is none, I was just saying That's fine. I personally can't think of another reason to persue it, that's all. Maybe there is one, I don't know.

here you go john his name was jose rivera....b

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Thank you Bernice. Jack already stated as nuch but the documentation is no doubt of interest. It looks like an A to me for the middle name?

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JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

Her stories about Carlos Marcello getting involved in the "two month relationship" is patently absurd and

seems to be an attempt to paint the old reliable MAFIA DID IT canard.

Jim...get her FULL manuscript and check it out against known facts before committing additional involvement.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

Her story on The Men Who Killed Kennedy was that Clay Shaw arranged the rooms for her trysts with Lee, not Carlos Marcello...

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JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

Her stories about Carlos Marcello getting involved in the "two month relationship" is patently absurd and

seems to be an attempt to paint the old reliable MAFIA DID IT canard.

Jim...get her FULL manuscript and check it out against known facts before committing additional involvement.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

Her story on The Men Who Killed Kennedy was that Clay Shaw arranged the rooms for her trysts with Lee, not Carlos Marcello...

I have watched this unfold for years. I believe that she has had some information that some want covered. Although I can not vouch for all that she has said, I do know how some of these matters work and how they are put into motion. My main thought is why so much flak over someone and why the "Theys" out there go to so much trouble to silence her, slander her and misquote various things she has said? (or take them out of context or miss read the meanings thereof)

I know what character assassination is all about. And sometimes it is used to cover the most tinny bit of truth which could expose a very big cover-up. In the early days the anonymous THEY would just kill you on the spot or arrange some little accident. However, as time marched on and the information and accusations became so much in the public eye, the M.O. shifted to character assassination and financial ruin via IRS and credit ratings, and open slander. I believe she is a victim of all of those tactics and perhaps more. Perhaps in some cases she may embellish and to some extent sensationalize, but I do not think it was for ego or self gratification. I think it was perhaps for survival. I do know that sometimes its hard to go back in time and get it all right the first time; and get it past the gatekeepers and those who already have preconceived ideas as to how they want thing to be in someone else's life.

With all that said, I toss my hat into the fray in behalf of her associations and the mix of INTEL activities she became thrust into in her early years. In her behalf I see the conspiracy continuing and she has every right to be paranoid and in a state of fear. I wish her the best. This does not mean I buy the story as it is written 100 percent. But I believe where there is smoke there could be a smoldering fire. There is to much secrecy behind this "story". In the past to much leading a young girl in matters of which she had no control. I wish her the best. Tosh

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Tosh, Thanks for this excellent post. I agree with you across the board. There are many reasons why Judyth might have occasional inconsistencies or gaps in her story, but she has been so dedicated and so persistent in her defense of Lee and has encountered such massive obstacles that, combined with her very detailed knowledge of her life and times in New Orleans, I find her quite convincing. I also believe that the convergence between your assessment and that of my psy ops expert provides powerful substantiation for understanding her experiences within the context of intel actions. When I assert my belief that her story humanizes the "lone assassin" and makes the demonization to which he has been subjected appear very implausible, I am not thereby denying that you and Jim are right and that the attempts to silence her are probably rooted in knowledge she possesses about biowarfare research, where even she has not put the pieces together for the threat that they represent to the agencies, as much about their methods, I suspect, as with the specific details of her research at the time. The more we learn, the better we will know, but I am glad that you and he and others on this forum agree with me that she indeed appears to be "the real deal".

JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

Her stories about Carlos Marcello getting involved in the "two month relationship" is patently absurd and

seems to be an attempt to paint the old reliable MAFIA DID IT canard.

Jim...get her FULL manuscript and check it out against known facts before committing additional involvement.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

Her story on The Men Who Killed Kennedy was that Clay Shaw arranged the rooms for her trysts with Lee, not Carlos Marcello...

I have watched this unfold for years. I believe that she has had some information that some want covered. Although I can not vouch for all that she has said, I do know how some of these matters work and how they are put into motion. My main thought is why so much flak over someone and why the "Theys" out there go to so much trouble to silence her, slander her and misquote various things she has said? (or take them out of context or miss read the meanings thereof)

I know what character assassination is all about. And sometimes it is used to cover the most tinny bit of truth which could expose a very big cover-up. In the early days the anonymous THEY would just kill you on the spot or arrange some little accident. However, as time marched on and the information and accusations became so much in the public eye, the M.O. shifted to character assassination and financial ruin via IRS and credit ratings, and open slander. I believe she is a victim of all of those tactics and perhaps more. Perhaps in some cases she may embellish and to some extent sensationalize, but I do not think it was for ego or self gratification. I think it was perhaps for survival. I do know that sometimes its hard to go back in time and get it all right the first time; and get it past the gatekeepers and those who already have preconceived ideas as to how they want thing to be in someone else's life.

With all that said, I toss my hat into the fray in behalf of her associations and the mix of INTEL activities she became thrust into in her early years. In her behalf I see the conspiracy continuing and she has every right to be paranoid and in a state of fear. I wish her the best. This does not mean I buy the story as it is written 100 percent. But I believe where there is smoke there could be a smoldering fire. There is to much secrecy behind this "story". In the past to much leading a young girl in matters of which she had no control. I wish her the best. Tosh

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Guest James H. Fetzer

Judyth sent me this response on 28 February, so it was written when she first read this nasty from Barb. Since she made more than one post attacking Judyth that day, however, she (Judyth) may be addressing some issues raised in later posts. When Junkkanrien talks about "fact checking", you know what is coming will be fanciful. She almost never knows what she is talking about, where this is a nice example of her distortions in attacking Judyth. When Barb posts, I know to expect substantial departures from the truth.

Response from Judyth:

I never dreamed I would have to write an essay to assemble the truth, which has been twisted by others. But here it is.

RUSSIAN CLASS AT NIGHT: CREATED SO I COULD LEARN RUSSIAN

Cost to me: free! (I have a note from my mother stating that I did not pay for the course -- that it was free for me ---it was 'funded", a note signed and dated, which I will produce upon request.)

1. Barb posted that night classes in Russian existed at least a year before I began attending Russian class at night, and therefore, I am lying when I said the class was organized by Doyle and other retired military so I could learn Russian.

Let's look at her reasoning and the facts. In fact, the year before, 1959, was the first year that a catalog is shown because there was no MJC before 1959. It was brand-new.

2. She posted that the former instructor in Russian was a woman called Reiglar, who taught night classes the year before. Next came Dr. Concevitch, teaching at night.

3. Therefore, she advises Dr. Fetzer to be aware that I have lied.

4. She failed to mention that Santa Reiglar was teaching not only Russian but also Italian.That Reiglar had only a bachelor's degree and was not a professor. That Reiglar, in fact, was a poor teacher, with nobody to replace her when she went back to college herself (which is what I heard as a rumor)...

5. Barb wants you to believe that Dr. Concevitch was eager to fill in the gap and teach Russian the following year. But she neglected to tell you that he never taught but that single year. And he's never seen again on the faculty roster.

6. Barb also neglected to mention that the following year, no more Russian classes were held at night, because they had no instructor, even though Russian was listed. They couldn't get Dr. Concevich to return. Oh, I didn't return, either.

7. She wants you to forget that it was Cold War at its best, and yes, Col. Doyle and his military friends wanted me to learn some Russian because Russian journals in the hospital medical libraries were not being ordered or read--nobody could read them. I was willing to attend, and do my best to tackle such journals, if they could get a night class going. No, I did not know that there had been any such night classes before this one. I had heard about the poor former teacher, and that no replacement was to be found, when efforts were made to try to get the night class going.

Originally Barb once posted that only day classes in Russian had been held, according to her 'investigations." That turned out to be false. But people tend to remember what they hear first. Judyth Baker had said there were night classes, but there were only day classes. I saved those erased posts from McAdams' newsgroup, by the way.

Barb does not believe any effort was made to create this night class, though no such night classes existed after that one....listed, but no instructor...and only one night class before it had existed...and that instructor did not return.

The military fellows got together and paid extra money to Concevitch to pull the course together, and they paid for my fee, so I paid nothing. Ask yourself if that sounds as outlandish as Barb would have you believe.

Why is this so difficult to digest when Barb should know, if she looked at my yearbooks, that Doyle and I are constantly being photographed together, he is being quoted about me, and oh--by the way-- I was at that time the top science student in the state of Florida, and had won a military cruise on an aircraft carrier with the US Navy as one of my prizes that year? I'd also won the US Army's Physics and Chemistry Award, and in Indianapolis I signed a loyalty oath with military officers present so i could qualify (I learned much later) for Indiana state scholarships, for Indiana was my home state, the International Science Fair was held in Indianapolis, Indiana. and I was a native of Indiana. of course i got some attention because of that, but also because so few girls made it that high at that time.

All of this sits badly with Barb, who tried a long time to say that I was just a good science student and that I had never done any cancer research at all. Interestingly, it was she who discovered an abstract showing the kind of cancer research I was capable of doing--she did attempt to minimize that because I had nuns for sponsors and therefore 'didn't do the work herself --but since the melanoma had come from Roswell Park in New York, she had to admit that I had done some real cancer research that the nuns had not been involved with, in order to get my hands on it now from the same place that she says i was 'dismissed ' from, when i was embedded in Dr. Moore's lab, not Dr. Mirand's. Dr. Moore happened to be the Director of Roswell Park, and he made the ultimate decision.

A newspaper article dated Sept. 10th says I recently returned from New York. Obviously, I had spent the entire summer at Roswell Park. Doing what? According to Barb, I had been dismissed and was doing nothing. She even found two (unnamed) former students who recalled me, one who agreed (sort of) that I had probably been dismissed. Wrong. Newspaper articles show the American Cancer Society, the NIH, and NSF had all given me awards. I came in late and the photographers, etc. were already there for photos. I certasinly did not give them the info. The ACS did, for publicity, because they'd gotten the report of my awards there, which have been long forgotten, while a housing violation is all that Dr.Mirand recalls from so many years ago.

I was Dr. Moore's responsibility, not his. I participated in the program Mirand ran, but I was Moore's girl.

Barb was unable, at least at first, to understand what the very title of my cancer research project was all about (I saved her post about that), and she has had lab training.

Dr. Theodore Concevitch from Sarasota was a real professor with an advanced degree. He agreed to teach a class if it 'made', and Doyle and others not only gave him some extra money but helped publicize the course so it 'made.' About fifteen students enrolled. Because I had to be gone a lot in science fairs, I changed my status to audit just before final exams and they let me do it because it had not been my fault. The night class was formed because these people wanted me to study Russian. It gave them a goal and they dd it. The next year, I was gone, and so was the professor, neither of us to return again.

REMEMBER:.

. Barb did not bother to mention that the first teacher was also teaching Italian and only had a bachelor's degree.

. Barb did not mention that Dr. Concevitch only taught Russian in 1960 and never again.

. Barb did not mention that there were no teachers for night classes in Russian after Dr. Concevitch left. After that, they just taught Spanish and French. Though offered the next year in the catalog, they could get no teacher to teach the course the fllowing year and as far as I know, they stopped listing Russian after awhile.

. Why did Barb not bother?

. Why is she not presenting all the facts?

I never in a million years thought 'd have to explain every teensy weensy detail when I simply stated that Col. Doyle and the military friends of his, very hyped about the Cold War, insisted that I learn Russian and felt it was important that I do so. Why in the world would I have been there, for what heavenly reason, except I was encouraged to do so? I never signed up for another Russian course except as an audit (my first year at UF).

It is true that Platzman and Shackleford thought all of the military interest was significant. During their Cold War, kids were being recruited into the CIA--we have fund records of it--from science fairs. I never claimed that, but my researcher friends thought they had their eye on me, and I could not say aye or nay....I was actually shocked when they suggested it.

I am not responsible for what is written in Deadly Alliance. I did not see what Livingstone did with the unauthorized book they also quote from. I only corresponded with Livingstone about the book through Martin Shackleford there were a lot of errors in what he showed me. He says they got fixed, but a whole paragraph, I learned, was repeated on one page.

Without the efforts of obtaining Dr. Concevitch, there would not have been a night class that year at MJS. And there weren't any more after that.

Jim...You are a newcomer to the Judyth experience. Get a complete copy of

her written story, as told to Martin Shackleford and some other LNs, and check

it against documentation. Rich DellaRosa did this. John Armstrong did it. Mary

Ferrell did it. After 9 months or so of study, all found she did not pass the

smell test.

One of the smelliest to me was her claim that Carlos Marcello took an interest

in the two lovers and put Lee and Judyth up at fancy hotels for love trysts. Huh?

Her claim that people who saw them together mistook her for Marina when

she looks nothing like Marina.

Her claim of being passionate lovers when perhaps they worked at the same

company for only two months. The claim about a honeymoon in Cancun

after Lee divorced Marina, when the resort of Cancun did not exist then.

Get her written story and check it out. Have you read her claims, or have

you just formed an opinion based on what she has told you. (You are the latest

in a LONG LIST of researchers she has chaarmed.)

I go with John Armstrong. If he says her stories do not fit the documentation,

then they do not.

Jack

Rarely do we agree on anything, Jack .... and this is probably the biggest thing. You have given your friend good advice, I hope he heeds it. Judyth is good, very good ... she is very intelligent, and heck, she was majoring in creative writing at UL Lafayette in the late 90s when this all started. It's also interesting that her supprters are nearly all male, the most vociferous ones being those who have met her or spoken to her. She always has an explanation, an excuse for everything. But do some simple fact checking on the basics of her story, and it falls apart.

Judyth has taken some basics from her life ... being an outstanding science student and working at Reily Coffee and strung them together with events that do not check out to tell a story of a young girl conscipted into the CIA while a high school junior at a science fair in Indiana, to being molded into a secret cancer researcher funded and looked over all the way to Dave Ferrie's kitchen in Louisiana.

She claimed that as a high school student, some group of former military intel types had a class in Russian created just for her at the local community college so she could learn Russian and be able to read Russian cancer research journals. Aside from being laughable on its face, I did some research and have documented that the school already HAD a Russian class two years before Judyth claims one was created there for her. She claims funding, grants, scholarships from the American Cancer Society, the National Science Foundation, NIH, etc ... researched all, spoke to people, have the annual reports for some of them, have letters from the American Cancer Society .... in not one of these place's records is any record of her ever having received a dime in either cash or equipment as she claims. (She did win a $250 prize toward college tuition in a high school science fair in Florida from the local chapter of the ACS there.) Beyond that, none of them ever heard of her.

She claimed to be the star of a summer program at Roswell Park Cancer Institute, with accolades and grants and scholarships heaped upon her and Dr. Moore of RP then becoming a secret mentor of sorts and overseeing her cancer research as she went off to college, he and Ochsner being somehow involved in her handling. Funny thing is, when I contacted Roswell Park with a question about the summer progrsam (it is still ongoing) I received a letter back from the dean, vice president and member of the board saying that Judyth "never completed the program as she was dismissed." I nearly fell off my chair. Lots of denials (first) then revisions, then excuses followed. But that is the word from RP and it was verified later by a reporter in her hometown in Florida who had been directed to me for some info for a story he was writing for the local paper. I also sought to confirm what RP had told me by tracking down a couple of students who attended the same session she did. One did not remember her, one did ... and recalled she had caused a big problem and then was gone from the program.

She claims to have a green iced tea glass that Oswald gave her thast was a promotional item being given away with Luzianne tea that summer at Reily Coffee ... in fact, she claims Oswald essentially stealing this glass to give it to her is what really got him fired. I contacted Reily Coffee about the promotion and learned they did have a green glass with tea giveaway once ... a "one time only" promotion that happened in like 1961 (don't have the info in front of me). No such promotion according to their records in 1963.

Lots more, I have checked many things. Anyway, you are correct Jack, Fetzer, and anyone else, needs to do some serious checking before they find themselves mesmerized with her memories and information about her days in the arms of Oswald.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Here is another response that Judyth sent me some time ago, but I am only getting around to posting at this time. Obviously, some are more important than others and this one is not very. But I have many others to post that are.

Response from Judyth:

---NOT A WORD OF THIS IS TRUE EXCEPT FOR THE WORDS 'HUMAN GENOME."

MY FRIEND JOHN LEBEAU AND I DECIDED TO SET UP A WEBSITE TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THE HUMANE GENOME PROJECT AND WHAT WE BELIEVED WERE DANGERS OF IT. WE LOST THE PASSWORD AND COULDN'T CHANGE IT OR DELETE IT, AND IT'S STILL UP, LAST I HEARD. IT ASKED FOR DONATIONS, BUT OF CURSE, WE NEVER GOT ANY SINCE WE DID NOT HAVE THE ADDRESS EVEN PUT IN YET!

I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN GENETIC MANIPULATION AND ON SCRIBD, I HAVE PUBLISHED AN ESSAY ABOUT CYBORGS.

THAT'S ABOUT IT. WHERE IN THE WORLD DID JACK GET THIS FROM?

MAYBE HE WAS SENT DISINFO. YOU WILL FIND NOTHING I EVER POSTED SAYING THAT. IF ANYBODY COMES UP WITH IT, CONSIDER THE POST ALTERED, AS I DID KEEP COPIES OF MANY POSTS, THANK GOD.

At one time JVB claimed to be working on the HUMAN GENOME PROJECT for the government.

Then she got silent on this when a congresswoman named Judy Baker became involved in

the project. As I recall, she was into breeding a certain breed of dogs as part of the government

project.

I seem to recall that she had an interest in UFOs...but that is no reason to discredit her. I too

am interested in the UFO phenomenon.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Here is another response that Judyth sent me some time ago, but I am only getting around to posting at this time. Obviously, some are more important than others and this one is not very. But I have many others to post that are.

Response from Judyth:

---NOT A WORD OF THIS IS TRUE EXCEPT FOR THE WORDS 'HUMAN GENOME."

MY FRIEND JOHN LEBEAU AND I DECIDED TO SET UP A WEBSITE TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THE HUMANE GENOME PROJECT AND WHAT WE BELIEVED WERE DANGERS OF IT. WE LOST THE PASSWORD AND COULDN'T CHANGE IT OR DELETE IT, AND IT'S STILL UP, LAST I HEARD. IT ASKED FOR DONATIONS, BUT OF CURSE, WE NEVER GOT ANY SINCE WE DID NOT HAVE THE ADDRESS EVEN PUT IN YET!

I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN GENETIC MANIPULATION AND ON SCRIBD, I HAVE PUBLISHED AN ESSAY ABOUT CYBORGS.

THAT'S ABOUT IT. WHERE IN THE WORLD DID JACK GET THIS FROM?

MAYBE HE WAS SENT DISINFO. YOU WILL FIND NOTHING I EVER POSTED SAYING THAT. IF ANYBODY COMES UP WITH IT, CONSIDER THE POST ALTERED, AS I DID KEEP COPIES OF MANY POSTS, THANK GOD.

At one time JVB claimed to be working on the HUMAN GENOME PROJECT for the government.

Then she got silent on this when a congresswoman named Judy Baker became involved in

the project. As I recall, she was into breeding a certain breed of dogs as part of the government

project.

I seem to recall that she had an interest in UFOs...but that is no reason to discredit her. I too

am interested in the UFO phenomenon.

Jack

Judith's story kind of remains me of 'Lisa Howard and Dorothy Killgalen... Howard is reported to have had an affair with Fidel Castro in the early sixties . She was murdered sometime after that. The details of the real reasons why she was even sent to Cuba were kept very secret by the CIA and DoJ for years. I flew her to Cuba on a few occasions as well as Roselli. Anyway the M.O. in the Judith case are remarkable similar in my view point. Howard knew Kilgalen and both of them came up dead under strange circumstances. Was it because of the alleged affair with Castro, or was there some other reasons for her death? That is another interesting story on both of these deaths, that history has not recorded properly, but has been heavily speculated upon and those false speculations have become facts and history to this generation. I see a similar repeated M.O. in all these stories... mine included.

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QUOTE

I have watched this unfold for years. I believe that she has had some information that some want covered. Although I can not vouch for all that she has said, I do know how some of these matters work and how they are put into motion. My main thought is why so much flak over someone and why the "Theys" out there go to so much trouble to silence her, slander her and misquote various things she has said? (or take them out of context or miss read the meanings thereof)

I know what character assassination is all about. And sometimes it is used to cover the most tiny bit of truth which could expose a very big cover-up. In the early days the anonymous THEY would just kill you on the spot or arrange some little accident. However, as time marched on and the information and accusations became so much in the public eye, the M.O. shifted to character assassination and financial ruin via IRS and credit ratings, and open slander. I believe she is a victim of all of those tactics and perhaps more. Perhaps in some cases she may embellish and to some extent sensationalize, but I do not think it was for ego or self gratification. I think it was perhaps for survival. I do know that sometimes its hard to go back in time and get it all right the first time; and get it past the gatekeepers and those who already have preconceived ideas as to how they want things to be in someone else's life.

With all that said, I toss my hat into the fray in behalf of her associations and the mix of INTEL activities she became thrust into in her early years. In her behalf I see the conspiracy continuing and she has every right to be paranoid and in a state of fear. I wish her the best. This does not mean I buy the story as it is written 100 percent. But I believe where there is smoke there could be a smoldering fire. There is to much secrecy behind this "story". In the past to much leading a young girl in matters of which she had no control. I wish her the best.

Tosh

Thanks, Tosh, for your eloquence.

I think the question we all have to ask is, "Who is still alive who would want Judyth silenced?" The research I have done for the last few years is based on following the trail of money, which I think is a good rule to follow in this case. The political power has changed more than once, and the intelligence operations have mostly been revealed. However, what remains hidden is the financial networking system or infrastructure that supported (and still supports) the control of intelligence operations by private commercial and banking networks that profit from organized crime. I think that Judyth's story reveals those longstanding connections and allows us to understand for once and for all how the network was started, by whom, and who runs it today--which is why THEY want to shut her up.

Monaghan is one extremely important clue because that tells us the governmental agency involved was the FBI.

William B. Reily is also important because of his family's Southern connections going back to the Confederacy, as well as to the coffee importation element of the business, relating to interests in South America, which the FBI controlled before being superseded by the CIA. Several generations ago, a Reily ancester, Samuel Warburton Reily, was married to the maternal aunt of Col. House's wife during a time that black ops were being handled through Woodrow Wilson's state department. That was while the father of the CIA's long-time counsel Lawrence Houston (David Franklin Houston) was secretary of agriculture in the Wilson administration, having been hand-picked by Col. House, who had known him for years since he was a fellow faculty member in Texas alongside the Colonel's wife's brother-in-law, Sidney Mezes.

Another important clue about Monaghan is that he left the FBI to work for Standard Fruit, a rival of the United Fruit Company, which Dulles had used (as had his uncle Robert Lansing, Secretary of State during the Woodrow Wilson years) as a cover for other black ops in South America.

The employment records were presented to the Warren Commission but ignored:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=143938

Monaghan also testified to the Orleans Parish grand jury in 1967 after he had written a letter, attempting to suppress Jim Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=155010

Ed Haslam's story about the first meetings with "Judyth Vary Baker" in 1972, an excerpt from Dr. Mary's Monkey, can be read here:

http://doctormarysmonkey.com/PDFs/The%20Witness.pdf

This link contains newspaper photos of and articles about the teen Judyth doing scientific cancer research, as well as a copy of her W2 at Reily Coffee.

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YouTube: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

http://www.youtube.com/user/JamesFetzerNews

Judyth Vary Baker, with whom I and others within the JFK community are in contact, lives in exile due to persecution in the US because of what she knows as a witness concerning Lee Harvey Oswald. The covert operation against Judyth is very serious and takes its toll upon her. She is now 66 years of age and has been forced to live in exile in Europe, where she resides in virtual poverty, even though she is a talented artist who has sold her paintings around the world for more than thirty years. The objective of this campaign appears to be to minimize awareness of her existence as a link to the alleged assassin.

My Blog: Judyth Vary Baken: Living in Exile

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010...-in-exile.html

Judyth's Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/Judyth.vary.baker?ref=ts

Looking at her page, I see we have a Facebook friend in common: Marina Oswald!

Edited by Gary Buell
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