Dyslexia V Asperger's

[Greg Parker]

As for Oswald - how many 20 something year olds write political and economic tracts? I'd call that an abonormally intense focus for an uneducated youth.

Of course you do but you have a vested interest in staking out such a position, I doubt a mental health professional would agree with you.

Another lie. I have no personal or financial stake in Oswald's health. This is the type of xxxxe that you like to hurl when you have nothing of substance. Your opinion is noted that you believe a mental health professional would not agree with me, so please feel free to invite one to study Oswald's social/medical history as a well as his writings in order to obtain your vaunted professional opinion. Until you do that, I don't think your opinion on what a mental health professional might find carries much weight since you yourself seem to think the term "misfit loner" constitutes a syndrome in and of itself.

Obviously I meant primary evidence in its general rather than its strictly legal sense. And despite your claims to the contrary you have used the word ''evidence" that way repeatedly including on this thread (see examples below) but you preferred to focus on the definition of “primary evidence” and the sites I drew my direct quotes from rather deal with what Marina said in them because it contradicted your silly theory.

Get a clue: "paraphrase" does not mean "made up". It is merely the essence of what was said. If you want to argue they lied about her saying Oswald's Russian was good, please provide evidence for it.

Apr 3 2010, 12:03 AM

With Asperger's, I cited the memorizing of the Marine Manual as evidence of "specialised fields of interest".

Apr 3 2010, 12:03 AM

You are correct here, and I will make an amendment so that it reads "unknown as to how much he relied on memory; some evidence indicates above average memory.

Another lie. You can cite Marina's interview with Posner as a primary SOURCE. To refer to it as "primary evidence" is indicating a use in the legal sense. Your very first link you used to support your claim was actually about primary SOURCES.

Yes, I used the word "evidence" a number of times in this thread. In each case, I am talking about evidence which could be introduced in court. But that is beside the point, since this is about primary sources which you have conflated with primary evidence.

I think it has come to the stage where it is pointless continuing. For now, you've used up your quota of "techniques", as well as your quota of my patience.

What you really mean is that you realize that your case is lost but are too proud to admit it.You hung your case on two “witnesses” Marina and DeM. But you had to spin selected comments they made. The former’s later clarifications of what she said in 1963-4 contradicted you then you bizarrely claimed she was not credible. You focused on what the latter wrote 1976-7 when he was a delusional paranoid but ignored what he said under oath in 1964 when he was still sane and the events were fresher in his memory. You also chose to arbitrarily ignore the observations of 3 – 5 of LHO’s Russian friends and neighbors.

You mentioned Peter Gregory in an earlier post but while his assessment was certainly more positive that of the people Oswald knew in the USSR he said nothing about LHO speaking Russian like a native or without an accent he wrote:

“To whom it may concern,

“Lee Harvey Oswald has a good knowledge of the Russian Language. He acquired this knowledge during his three-year residence in the Soviet Union. "

You are nothing if not predictable.

Evidence has to be weighted. Oswald pretended not to speak ANY Russian in hospital when doing so was against his own interests I assume the US looks more favourably on potential new citizens if the speak English. Why would he act against his own interest when he was so desperate to stay he slashed his wrists? One reason would be that it is advantageous for someone seeking information to pretend not to understand the local language.

As for Peter Gregory, what his letter was about was recommending Oswald as someone who could work as an interpreter.

"When a person with Asperger's syndrome learns a foreign language, there can be a remarkable ability to pronounce the words as spoken by a native speaker. This can lead to a successful career in languages, such as a translator or interpreter..." The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, Tony Attwood, p 225

Adieu Len. Knock yourself out.

[Len Colby]

As for Oswald - how many 20 something year olds write political and economic tracts? I'd call that an abonormally intense focus for an uneducated youth.

Of course you do but you have a vested interest in staking out such a position, I doubt a mental health professional would agree with you.

Another lie. I have no personal or financial stake in Oswald's health.

Obviously I meant that in figurative sense, you’d staked out your position that he has Asperger’s and I pointed out the evidence for the 2nd criterion was weak. Though you obviously have no financial interest defending a theory you posted here and on your website counts as a “personal stake”

"This is the type of xxxxe that you like to hurl when you have nothing of substance. Your opinion is noted that you believe a mental health professional would not agree with me, so please feel free to invite one to study Oswald's social/medical history as a well as his writings in order to obtain your vaunted professional opinion."

Sorry this is YOUR pet theory, you should be the one to dig up someone with credentials to support it.

"Until you do that, I don't think your opinion on what a mental health professional might find carries much weight since you yourself seem to think the term "misfit loner" constitutes a syndrome in and of itself."

I never said anything of the sort. Asperger’s is a lot rarer than “Qualitative impairments in social interaction”

“In February 2007, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced that the prevalence of autism reached 1 in 150 children, roughly 6.7 cases per 1,000 children aged 8 years old or younger. Other studies estimate the prevalence of Asperger’s Syndrome at 1 in 500 children.”

http://ohioline.osu.edu/flm03/FS11.pdf

Obviously I meant primary evidence in its general rather than its strictly legal sense. And despite your claims to the contrary you have used the word ''evidence" that way repeatedly including on this thread (see examples below) but you preferred to focus on the definition of “primary evidence” and the sites I drew my direct quotes from rather deal with what Marina said in them because it contradicted your silly theory.

Get a clue: "paraphrase" does not mean "made up". It is merely the essence of what was said. If you want to argue they lied about her saying Oswald's Russian was good, please provide evidence for it.

Apr 3 2010, 12:03 AM

With Asperger's, I cited the memorizing of the Marine Manual as evidence of "specialised fields of interest".

Apr 3 2010, 12:03 AM

You are correct here, and I will make an amendment so that it reads "unknown as to how much he relied on memory; some evidence indicates above average memory.

Another lie. You can cite Marina's interview with Posner as a primary SOURCE. To refer to it as "primary evidence" is indicating a use in the legal sense. Your very first link you used to support your claim was actually about primary SOURCES.

Actually it twice referred to “primary sources of evidence” the 2nd and 3rd used “primary evidence” in the same sense but I guess Professor Parker knows more about this than the auhors of pages on prominent university websites. And I’m not at all surprised that you prefer to quibble over sematics rather than address the substance of Marina’s comments.

"Yes, I used the word "evidence" a number of times in this thread. In each case, I am talking about evidence which could be introduced in court."

Obvious BS if one looks at the examples

"But that is beside the point, since this is about primary sources which you have conflated with primary evidence."

Except in the legal sense they are synonyms.

I think it has come to the stage where it is pointless continuing. For now, you've used up your quota of "techniques", as well as your quota of my patience.

What you really mean is that you realize that your case is lost but are too proud to admit it.You hung your case on two “witnesses” Marina and DeM. But you had to spin selected comments they made. The former’s later clarifications of what she said in 1963-4 contradicted you then you bizarrely claimed she was not credible. You focused on what the latter wrote 1976-7 when he was a delusional paranoid but ignored what he said under oath in 1964 when he was still sane and the events were fresher in his memory. You also chose to arbitrarily ignore the observations of 3 – 5 of LHO’s Russian friends and neighbors.

You mentioned Peter Gregory in an earlier post but while his assessment was certainly more positive that of the people Oswald knew in the USSR he said nothing about LHO speaking Russian like a native or without an accent he wrote:

“To whom it may concern,

“Lee Harvey Oswald has a good knowledge of the Russian Language. He acquired this knowledge during his three-year residence in the Soviet Union. "

You are nothing if not predictable.

Evidence has to be weighted. Oswald pretended not to speak ANY Russian in hospital when doing so was against his own interests I assume the US looks more favourably on potential new citizens if the speak English. Why would he act against his own interest when he was so desperate to stay he slashed his wrists? One reason would be that it is advantageous for someone seeking information to pretend not to understand the local language.

He’d only been in Russia for a few days all (or most) sources indicate he spoke very little Russian at that point according to some it was limited to terms like "I need a fork" obviously he was under duress at the time and this negatively effects many peoples’ ability to speak a foreign language. What sort of information do you think he was gathering, Soviet TV technology? Do you think that he was so dedicated to his spycraft he hid his Russian speaking ability from his first love?

As for Peter Gregory, what his letter was about was recommending Oswald as someone who could work as an interpreter.

"When a person with Asperger's syndrome learns a foreign language, there can be a remarkable ability to pronounce the words as spoken by a native speaker. This can lead to a successful career in languages, such as a translator or interpreter..." The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, Tony Attwood, p 225

What is the name of the logical fallacy that goes "all dogs are mammals therefore all mammals are dogs"? Yes I assume Attwood is correct and many people with Asperger’s can have “successful career in languages, such as a translator or interpreter..." it does NOT follow that all or even most or even a significant minority of people who might have the potential for such careers suffer from the syndrome. I work as translator and interpreter and speak Portuguese fluently but most Brazilians can figure out quickly that I’m not a native speaker, with one exception all the as translators and interpreters I know have an identifiable accent in their 2nd language.

No Russian speakers who spoke to or read the writings of LHO said he spoke the language like a native. Gregory’s note was very brief did not address the issue; Marina and DeM, the only other people who said he spoke well, said he did so with a foreign accent. The other Russians he met including his best friend, a language teacher who became a high level KGB agent and the 1st woman he wanted to marry said he spoke poorly.

"Adieu Len. Knock yourself out."

Oh, no! Not yet another 'last good bye'! LOL

[Len Colby]

From another thread

As it happens, I did come across something that I would have added had I realised you had made another reply.

From Peter Gregory's testimony: "I noticed that he spoke with what I thought to be a Polish accent, so I asked him if he were of Polish origin."

That is in reply to your statement that "No Russian speakers who spoke to or read the writings of LHO said he spoke the language like a native."

Start quibble over what constitutes "speaking like a Native" here, Len:

Thanks for coming up with yet another source who said he did NOT speak like a native. Polish is a West Slavic language Russian is an East Slavic one. A native speaker is obviously someone who grew up speaking a language not someone who grew up speaking a similar language. See the following link for more it even differentiates speakers of “British, American or Singapore English”

http://neptune.spaceports.com/~words/native.html

I had Google translate “Hello my name is Joe. Do you want some beer?”

In Polish it curned out “Witam mam na imię Joe. Czy chcesz się piwa?”

But in Russian, “Здравствуйте, меня зовут Джо. Хочешь пива?”

The differences in the alphabet aside Google has a pronunciation feature they don’t sound similar. See the discussions on this forum threads

http://www.polishforums.com/general-language-17/the-languages-russian-polish-similar-all-3935/

http://claritaslux.com/blog/knowing-polish-understanding-russian/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100806171224AAJVA2S

AFAICT Portuguese and Spanish are more closely related than Polish and Russian. If after nearly three years living here someone guessed I was from Argentina I would not consider it a sign I had some special ability

[Len Colby]

I forgot to comment on another obvious point. Peter Paul Gregory testified that he "asked him if he were of Polish origin" in other words he suspected that LHO was of Polish decent rather than that he was born in Poland. A friend of mine was raised by his Sicilian grandmother so he speaks the dialect but I doubt he does so like people born and raised on the island. My daughters speak English but with accents. I can cite other examples

We also have to remember there were very few people in the US who weren't from Eastern/Central Europe or of Slavic origin who spoke Slavic languages especially shlubs like LHO (as opposed to academic and intel types}. So as with Marina's guess he was from the Baltics so we have to consider Mr. Gregory's expectations, he met someone who spoke decent Russian so he thought he might have been of Slavic origin. Note that he didn't ask him if he was Russsian, of Russian decent or even born in a Slavic country.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Len Colby