Jump to content
The Education Forum

Putting Some Pieces Together


Recommended Posts

I'll start this with an excerpt from the S.M. Holland interview.

http://98.155.2.255:8400/F3DEA/HOLLAND.mov

Please note his description of the sound difference between shots.

chris

[paraphrased] He says the sound from the shots (reports) were of different volume and there were four shots. The first, second, and fourth "reports" were noticebly louder than the third--and the third and fourth reports occured almost simultneously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe the ordinary response time for an individual in reaction to external stimulus (gun shot) was proven to be about a 5 to 6 Z frame span.

Not including the camera movement at frame 318 in response to the 313 shot, at what frame/s is there another incident of obvious camera movement in this Z clip?

http://98.155.2.255:8400/256B5/Z_.mov

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Muchmore and the guys on the steps are worth a look too imo.

_____

Other considerations

wiki

''Sources of firearm noise

in order of timing:

* Action noise required to ignite the round.

* Muzzle blast resulting from the discharge of propellant from the end of the barrel.

* Sonic signature of the projectile in flight (super sonic velocity rounds).

* Action noise in some firearm variants as the spent round is discharged and a fresh round reloaded.

* Impact noise created as the projectile finds terminal impact.''

I'd add echo to the mix as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Muchmore and the guys on the steps are worth a look too imo.

_____

Other considerations

wiki

''Sources of firearm noise

in order of timing:

* Action noise required to ignite the round.

* Muzzle blast resulting from the discharge of propellant from the end of the barrel.

* Sonic signature of the projectile in flight (super sonic velocity rounds).

* Action noise in some firearm variants as the spent round is discharged and a fresh round reloaded.

* Impact noise created as the projectile finds terminal impact.''

I'd add echo to the mix as well.

I'd add visual observation of the impact on the target into the mix.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 frames equals approx 10 ft. farther down the street with limo traveling at 9.2 mph.

Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.

I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

Because, you see, even up to that time I didn't know that the President had been shot previously. I still thought up until that time that all I heard was fireworks and that they were giving some sort of celebration to the President by popping these fireworks. It stunned me so at what I saw that I failed to do my duty and make the picture that I was hoping to make.

There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,

Mr. LIEBELER - And that it was 15 feet away at the time the third shot was fired.

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - I don't know how many feet it moved, but it moved quite a ways from the time the first shot was fired until the time the third shot was fired. I'm having trouble on this Exhibit No. 203 understanding how you could have been within 30 feet of the President's car when you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and within 15 feet of the car when he was hit with the last shot in the head without having moved yourself. Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head.

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it.

Mr. LIEBELER - But it was almost directly in front of you as it went down the street; isn't that right?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - So, it is clear from your testimony that the third shot--the last shot, rather--hit the President?

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, off and on we have been referring to the third shot and the fourth shot; but actually, it was the last shot, the shot did strike the President and there was no other sound like a shot that was made after that. I was just going to make a conclusion here, but that's not my place to do that, so I'll just forget it--what I was going to say

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When do Toni Foster and Bill Newman react in Nix, in relation to the frame #?

There is a frame count in red for the time period I'm concerned with.

http://98.155.2.255:8400/FCBD7/NIX_FILMING1.gif

chris

Sorry, but I'm unable to tell as the gif is very shaky.

Greg,

Try this and also pay attention to Z filming on the pedestal. When do we see him react to a shot while filming?

http://98.155.2.255:8400/179CC/NIX_FILMING1.mov

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To my eye, it looks like Toni & Bill react at approximtely frame #322 as numbered on your film. I can't see Zapruder's reaction (if any) clearly enough to venture a guess as to frame number.

==========================================================================

EDIT: I just re-checked the remainder of what I posted earlier [below]. I will need to study it further. I am less certain about this now than I was earlier.

What I find very interesting--as I've said before--is the relative SIZE of Zapruder as compared to people seen in the foreground. Closer objects should appear larger than objects of relatively the same size that are farther away. He seems awfully tall using that standard.

But, I digress, that's a topic for a different thread.

Edited by Greg Burnham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll start this with an excerpt from the S.M. Holland interview.

http://98.155.2.255:8400/F3DEA/HOLLAND.mov

Please note his description of the sound difference between shots.

chris

Holland says the 4th shot was much louder than the 3rd shot.

Bill Newman's reaction is to the loudest shot.

Newman sees and describes the 313 shot, but his reaction in Nix indicates a response to the later shot.

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...