Doug Horne and the Education Forum

[John Simkin]

You know, Doug is a member of this forum, just like Tony Summers, Dick Russell, Bill Turner, Peter Dale Scott, AJW, - and even the JMWAVE asset crew are all here, but they don't like getting beat up - by people like Costella... - et al....I could name a dozen but don't want to inflame them - and all the authors ask for is a little respect.

And I too take exception to Doug Horne's reference to the Education Forum being misnamed, as it has certainly enhanced our understanding of the JFK assassination more than any other forum that I've known since the beginning of the internet, and continues to do so, and has yet to extend the limits of what it can acomplish. Thanks John, for providing the forum for John Costella's review and the platform for correctional feedback.

They may have misnamed the JFK Assassination Debate, since very few of the Lone Nutters or conspiracy deniers can stand it very long, having their basic assumptions challenged, but the debate among the Conspiracy Theorists themselves has shown that there really is no such thing as the "Research Community," and most everybody has their own agenda.

It is true that Doug is a member of the Education Forum. However, he told me a few months ago that he was not willing to debate his critics on the forum and would rather use his blog to communicate his views on the subject. As Bill points out, he is not the first member to stop posting when they come under attack. Judyth Baker falls into that category. She, like Gary Mack, prefer others to do their posting for them. The advantage of this approach is that they are not seen to avoid answering questions of their story/work. This is also true of a blog. However, I should point out that of the list Bill provides, Dick Russell, Bill Turner, Peter Dale Scott, have never avoided answering their critics on the forum. However, he is right to say that some researchers have been unwilling to deal with their critics on the forum. What tends to happen is that they use the Forum to publicize their work, and then leave when they face hostile questioning. That of course, is their right. At the same time, it does influence my opinion on their research. It is one of the reasons that I rate Larry Hancock’s book, Someone Would Have Talked, so highly. He spent several months on this forum answering questions on his book. Not once did he resort to abuse of his critics. Larry came across as someone who was completely confident about what he had written. If he had made a mistake, he was willing to admit it.

I therefore think Doug has made a mistake in not using the Forum to answer his critics. He is also wrong about the importance of forums such as this one. He states on his blog:

"I don’t usually bother to even read, much less respond to, the many “nattering nabobs of negativism” who attempt to inflate their egos by posting negative attacks on internet chat rooms---sites that are usually only read by a few hundred people on the entire planet."

The Education Forum gets a million visitors a month. Individual threads are read by thousands of people. Don’t take my word for it, just look at the “page views” column. The Education Forum is also highly ranked by Google. If you do a search for a JFK assassination reference you will invariable find the forum listed in Google searches. That is why writers use this forum to publicize their work. That is why Doug used the Forum to promote his book. However, he is not so keen on the Forum when it offers a platform for his critics. It seems that eventually everybody falls out with me over my insistence that everybody has the right to free speech.

By the way I have no strong opinions on the subject of the validity of the Zapruder Film. I do not have the time to assess all the available evidence. However, I have been influenced to a certain extent by the way people discuss the subject. I suspect that is true of others who read the threads on the “photographic evidence”. When one member begins abusing another member, I always assume they must have a very poor case to argue.

[David G. Healy]

You know, Doug is a member of this forum, just like Tony Summers, Dick Russell, Bill Turner, Peter Dale Scott, AJW, - and even the JMWAVE asset crew are all here, but they don't like getting beat up - by people like Costella... - et al....I could name a dozen but don't want to inflame them - and all the authors ask for is a little respect.

And I too take exception to Doug Horne's reference to the Education Forum being misnamed, as it has certainly enhanced our understanding of the JFK assassination more than any other forum that I've known since the beginning of the internet, and continues to do so, and has yet to extend the limits of what it can acomplish. Thanks John, for providing the forum for John Costella's review and the platform for correctional feedback.

They may have misnamed the JFK Assassination Debate, since very few of the Lone Nutters or conspiracy deniers can stand it very long, having their basic assumptions challenged, but the debate among the Conspiracy Theorists themselves has shown that there really is no such thing as the "Research Community," and most everybody has their own agenda.

It is true that Doug is a member of the Education Forum. However, he told me a few months ago that he was not willing to debate his critics on the forum and would rather use his blog to communicate his views on the subject. As Bill points out, he is not the first member to stop posting when they come under attack. Judyth Baker falls into that category. She, like Gary Mack, prefer others to do their posting for them. The advantage of this approach is that they are not seen to avoid answering questions of their story/work. This is also true of a blog. However, I should point out that of the list Bill provides, Dick Russell, Bill Turner, Peter Dale Scott, have never avoided answering their critics on the forum. However, he is right to say that some researchers have been unwilling to deal with their critics on the forum. What tends to happen is that they use the Forum to publicize their work, and then leave when they face hostile questioning. That of course, is their right. At the same time, it does influence my opinion on their research. It is one of the reasons that I rate Larry Hancock’s book, Someone Would Have Talked, so highly. He spent several months on this forum answering questions on his book. Not once did he resort to abuse of his critics. Larry came across as someone who was completely confident about what he had written. If he had made a mistake, he was willing to admit it.

I therefore think Doug has made a mistake in not using the Forum to answer his critics. He is also wrong about the importance of forums such as this one. He states on his blog:

"I don’t usually bother to even read, much less respond to, the many “nattering nabobs of negativism” who attempt to inflate their egos by posting negative attacks on internet chat rooms---sites that are usually only read by a few hundred people on the entire planet."

The Education Forum gets a million visitors a month. Individual threads are read by thousands of people. Don’t take my word for it, just look at the “page views” column. The Education Forum is also highly ranked by Google. If you do a search for a JFK assassination reference you will invariable find the forum listed in Google searches. That is why writers use this forum to publicize their work. That is why Doug used the Forum to promote his book. However, he is not so keen on the Forum when it offers a platform for his critics. It seems that eventually everybody falls out with me over my insistence that everybody has the right to free speech.

By the way I have no strong opinions on the subject of the validity of the Zapruder Film. I do not have the time to assess all the available evidence. However, I have been influenced to a certain extent by the way people discuss the subject. I suspect that is true of others who read the threads on the “photographic evidence”. When one member begins abusing another member, I always assume they must have a very poor case to argue.

John,

Thanks for your continued effort here and at the Spartacus website....

However, concerning your above, in the truest of Irish fashion: Hey, screw the critics! Especially if you're a subject matter specialist. If any self-professed "critic" (and frankly, I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but near 1/2 of the participants in/on JFK assassination related internet forums/chatrooms are provocateurs) takes umbrage with what an author writes (and said material was NOT presented for peer review) and that same author decides he/she chooses not to debate their copyright material, then self-imposed CRTICS have a REAL problem! I suggest they get of their lazy rearends, do their own subject matter research, write their own 5 volume series, find a publisher (or self publish) print, sell, then commence convincing the public that the initial author is wrong.

In the free-flowing internet forum community, with THIS particular subject matter, it's a sure receipt to drives reputable authors away... case in point, where's Mark Lane? Now there's a guy who dismantled one and all discussing-debating JFK assassination subject matter. Is a Mark Lane type going to spend endless hours answering the same damn questions over and over and over, when the material was covered in the book(s)? Nonesense

Answer Ed Forum critics? Hey, I suspect 50% of the folks on this forum are posting under aliases, so why answer ghosts, eh?

Take care, John Simkin.

David Healy

[Guest Tom Scully]

John,

Maybe there is just not enough understanding of the impact and the potential of what you have created and implemented through your website and this forum. I know of nothing comparable to the power you share with each member of this forum.

Type the name, Samuel Pryor into the search box on the homepage of the world's leading internet search engine.:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=s...q=&gs_rfai=

Samuel F. Pryor & Son, by Sam Pryor III - The Education Forum

Jan 24, 2009 ... A new book has been published by 80 year old Sam Pryor III, a tribute to his late father, Sam Pryor Jr., with family history chapters described as: ...

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Since I know of no other way to achieve a first search result with a search term I am interested in, than by posting it on a thread in this forum, or even a top ten search result, I have to suspect a lack of understanding, rather than a lack of appreciation of the value of what John has developed and shared with all of us here, is behind the motivation to withdraw from active participation here, in favor of some other internet venue.

How else can a decision to post your thoughts in an internet venue with a much smaller potential to reach the widest possible, interested audience, be explained?