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Are Americans afraid of their government?


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I was watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" last night. There is a scene where he has a discussion with a group of Americans living in Paris. They all prefered to live in France that America, mainly because of the issue of health care. However, one American women made an interesting point about the different countries. She said in America people are afraid of their government, whereas in France, the government is frightened of the people. What she meant by this is that the French take to the streets if they don't like what the government is doing. Would you agree about this assessment? Do you think this is a factor in the lack of a true investigation into the assassination of JFK?

On the street level, its better that the police maintain order. I lived in Korea and Taiwan for extended periods of time and observed disrespect for police. This, I have heard, is indicative of a newly democratized society that previously experienced martial law and it's hard core treatment by police as these two societies did. I am talking about a drunken person not allowing himself to be taken to jail and the police not even handcuffing him and allowing the situation to get out of control.

On the other hand, the respective governments of these countries investigated and acknowledged an obvious wrong, like the JFK assassination in the USA.

Examples of the government acknowledgement in Taiwan are the ER ER BA, (228 incident) and one other that will come to me later. In Korea, there is the infamous Kaungu Massacre and also another one or two. (one which was recently in the international news) I am not talking about the recent tensions on the border over the sea incident.

This would NEVER happen in the USA. These are acknowledgement of terrible government massacres.

But the people of these two societies rose up and said in effect, "it is obvious, I even have a family member who verifies this; quit your lying"

Is that the difference? Do the Kennedys, or the numerous citizens affected by the Coup D Etat, need to get more vocal?

Petr, It's maybe semantics or something but I'm trying to understand your meaning, the bit about never happen in the USA etc kinda threw me off track. Were you being fascetious or sarcastic or something like that or do you claim that that is actually a true statement?

Edited by John Dolva
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I was watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" last night. There is a scene where he has a discussion with a group of Americans living in Paris. They all prefered to live in France that America, mainly because of the issue of health care. However, one American women made an interesting point about the different countries. She said in America people are afraid of their government, whereas in France, the government is frightened of the people. What she meant by this is that the French take to the streets if they don't like what the government is doing. Would you agree about this assessment? Do you think this is a factor in the lack of a true investigation into the assassination of JFK?

On the street level, its better that the police maintain order. I lived in Korea and Taiwan for extended periods of time and observed disrespect for police. This, I have heard, is indicative of a newly democratized society that previously experienced martial law and it's hard core treatment by police as these two societies did. I am talking about a drunken person not allowing himself to be taken to jail and the police not even handcuffing him and allowing the situation to get out of control.

On the other hand, the respective governments of these countries investigated and acknowledged an obvious wrong, like the JFK assassination in the USA.

Examples of the government acknowledgement in Taiwan are the ER ER BA, (228 incident) and one other that will come to me later. In Korea, there is the infamous Kaungu Massacre and also another one or two. (one which was recently in the international news) I am not talking about the recent tensions on the border over the sea incident.

This would NEVER happen in the USA. These are acknowledgement of terrible government massacres.

But the people of these two societies rose up and said in effect, "it is obvious, I even have a family member who verifies this; quit your lying"

Is that the difference? Do the Kennedys, or the numerous citizens affected by the Coup D Etat, need to get more vocal?

Petr, It's maybe semantics or something but I'm trying to understand your meaning, the bit about never happen in the USA etc kinda threw me off track. Were you being fascetious or sarcastic or something like that or do you claim that that is actually a true statement?

[ Examples of the government acknowledgement in Taiwan are the ER ER BA, (228 incident) In Korea, there is the infamous Kwaungu Massacre and the No Gun Ri, incident.

These acknowledgements would NEVER happen in the USA. (The acknowledgements of terrible government wrongs.) ]

I see. I have edited my comments in an attempt to clarify what I mean. Korea and Taiwan have gone to great lengths to apologize for several shameful incidents in their recent past.

I do not see that happening here in the USA, mainly because the government denies this string of incidents in the 60's.

Was there an apology for Kent State, for example?

The Kennedies and King?

Yet Spector was voted out and his name on the Single Bullet Theory was a factor. People know what happened but they rarely speak out about it. So I guess why should the government accept responsibility here in the United States like these other countries do?

Edited by Peter McGuire
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Thank you Peter. It's clear now. I think on first raed I agree.

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Robert Arend thinks Obama is afraid of something. He calls it the Kennedy Effect:

"The fact that President Obama still remains personally popular with the majority of

American tells me I'm not alone in instinctively knowing him to be a brave, good and

gentle soul, sensing the danger that restrains him. Something (or someones) have

given him reason to be afraid....."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/The-Ken...100529-515.html

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Interesting. Medgar Evers was described as being extra pensive and with a kindof down mood the night Kennedy delivered his Civil Rights speech, and a couple of hours later he was assassinated. Similarly, MLK has been described as putting on a brave face while obviously shaken the night before he was assassinated.

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Thank you Peter. It's clear now. I think on first read I agree.

An example of a government taking responsibility......

http://www.taiwandc.org/228-intr.htm

Taiwan's Holocaust Remembered -- 60th Commemoration

The date "February 28" is etched into the hearts and minds of the Taiwanese people like the word "Holocaust" in the history of the Jewish people. On that day, 50 years ago in 1947, an incident took place in Taipei, which led to the massive slaughter of thousands of Taiwanese at the hands of Chiang Kai-shek's Chinese troops.

The event was the beginning of 40 years of repressive martial law on the island, during which Chiang's Kuomintang mainlanders ruled the Taiwanese with iron fist. This ended only in 1987, when martial law was lifted, and Taiwan started to move towards democratization.

or, perhaps not....

The military cover-up continues.

However, on the side of the military, the cover-up still continues. The democratic opposition has urged the government to identify those responsible for the massacre and to prosecute those who are still alive. According to historical records the then-Governor Chen Yi was a key figure. He was subsequently promoted to be governor of Fukien, but was later ordered to be executed by Chiang Kai-shek. Many military men involved in the massacre later rose to high positions in the Kuomintang hierarchy. Most of these are now in retirement, some in the United States. According to a report in the Far Eastern Economic Review ("Past Time", 23 March 1995), a former body guard of Governor Chen Yi, Mr. Shu Tao, also implicated Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek himself: Mr. Shu recently told a press conference in Taipei that he was present when the then Governor received a telegram from Chiang ordering him to suppress any opposition. According to Shu, the message was chillingly concise: "Kill them all, keep it secret."

Mr. Shu was then ordered to pass the telegram on to general Ke Yuan-fen, then chief of the Command of State Security, the forerunner of the infamous Taiwan Garrison Command. Mr. Ke is considered one of the people primarily responsible for the atrocities during and after the 1947 Incident. Historians in Taiwan believe the document could be among the personal papers of general Ke, who lived in retirement in Monterey Park in Southern California, and passed away recently.

Another person responsible for the tragedy, General Peng Meng-chi, is living in retirement in Taiwan. He conducted a reign of terror in the southern city of Kaohsiung, and was often referred to as the "Butcher of Kaohsiung." Up until now the Kuomintang authorities have failed to charge him for the crimes he committed.

Scholars who want to conduct research about the February 28 incident complain that they cannot get access to a number of government archives. Although the Executive Yuan's Ad Hoc Committee on 2-28 Incident has so far issued two volumes of findings from the archives, the Department of Defense continues to refuse to make public records in its archives covering the period from 1945 to 1950.

Edited by Peter McGuire
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Robert Arend thinks Obama is afraid of something. He calls it the Kennedy Effect:

"The fact that President Obama still remains personally popular with the majority of

American tells me I'm not alone in instinctively knowing him to be a brave, good and

gentle soul, sensing the danger that restrains him. Something (or someones) have

given him reason to be afraid....."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/The-Ken...100529-515.html

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...read.php?t=3977

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