How Many People Working In The TSBD Building That Day Didn't Watch The Motorcade Pass By?

[Thomas Graves]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

[Mike Williams]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Jack Dougherty. Said he wanted to see the president but the crowd was too big.

Jack obviously didn't think to look out of one of the large windows on the fifth floor he says he was on when the motorcade went by, unlike Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman who did watch it from the fifth floor windows. Funnily enough these are three people that Jack didn't see (or hear) on the same floor as himself...

...and they didn't see (or hear) him.

If he was even on the first floor. Jack seems to be geographically challenged. He did not even know Indiana was in the US!

Com on now.....

[Mike Williams]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Jack Dougherty. Said he wanted to see the president but the crowd was too big.

Jack obviously didn't think to look out of one of the large windows on the fifth floor he says he was on when the motorcade went by, unlike Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman who did watch it from the fifth floor windows. Funnily enough these are three people that Jack didn't see (or hear) on the same floor as himself...

...and they didn't see (or hear) him.

If he was even on the first floor. Jack seems to be geographically challenged. He did not even know Indiana was in the US!

Com on now.....

Indiana is where now?

Mike, Roy Truly trusted Jack D to open the TSBD every morning. He had the keys to the building. He was the first in there each and every day. Don't believe everything you hear, or read, about big & slow Jack Dougherty.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.

Mr. BALL - Where did you go?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.

Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.

Further he does not even seem to know if the shots were before lunch or after.

The guys is clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Mike Williams

[Mike Williams]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Jack Dougherty. Said he wanted to see the president but the crowd was too big.

Jack obviously didn't think to look out of one of the large windows on the fifth floor he says he was on when the motorcade went by, unlike Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman who did watch it from the fifth floor windows. Funnily enough these are three people that Jack didn't see (or hear) on the same floor as himself...

...and they didn't see (or hear) him.

If he was even on the first floor. Jack seems to be geographically challenged. He did not even know Indiana was in the US!

Com on now.....

Indiana is where now?

Mike, Roy Truly trusted Jack D to open the TSBD every morning. He had the keys to the building. He was the first in there each and every day. Don't believe everything you hear, or read, about big & slow Jack Dougherty.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.

Mr. BALL - Where did you go?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.

Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.

Further he does not even seem to know if the shots were before lunch or after.

The guys is clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Well they let this guy into your armed forces in the first place. Doesn't say much for the recruitment standards does it?

And in all honesty, I've met quite a few Texans Mike. I'm also married to one. They do seem to think that the United States is Texas.

And your second point would depend upon when he had lunch would it not?

During WW2 I could not speculate on the recruiting standards, but you may well be right.

In facr most Texans dont believe they are the United States, and frankly they hate to admit they are part of the US!

However most do recognize that Indiana is not out of the country.

When he had luch would not be as big a thought as whether he could tell time, give the mish mosh of his testimony.

[Mike Williams]

During WW2 I could not speculate on the recruiting standards, but you may well be right.

In facr most Texans dont believe they are the United States, and frankly they hate to admit they are part of the US!

However most do recognize that Indiana is not out of the country.

When he had luch would not be as big a thought as whether he could tell time, give the mish mosh of his testimony.

Best leave it there Mike. We're hijacking the thread a little because Thomas wanted to know who else didn't watch the motorcade. I think we've established that Jack D was one of them.

As a final thought from me...

...I think Jack could follow orders very well even if he was portrayed as a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

Roger that my friend! I agree!

[Thomas Graves]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Jack Dougherty. Said he wanted to see the president but the crowd was too big.

Jack obviously didn't think to look out of one of the large windows on the fifth floor he says he was on when the motorcade went by, unlike Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman who did watch it from the fifth floor windows. Funnily enough these are three people that Jack didn't see (or hear) on the same floor as himself...

...and they didn't see (or hear) him.

__________________________________________________________

Seems I've started a jack Dougherty thread. LOL

Was there anyone else?

Thanks,

--Thomas

Edited May 23, 2010 by Thomas Graves

[John Dolva]

There was a lady on one of the middle floors working in an office somewhere north east

[Mark Knight]

IIRC, didn't Mr. Buell Wesley Frazier claim he was eating his lunch "in the basement" of the TSBD?

[Thomas Graves]

IIRC, didn't Mr. Buell Wesley Frazier claim he was eating his lunch "in the basement" of the TSBD?

Mark

BWF claims he watched the motorcade pass by standing on the steps with Billy Lovelady and William Shelley. After the shots he says he stood around for a few minutes and once he was told the president had been shot he went into the basement to eat his lunch.

I'm sure most of us who have just heard that the President of the United States has been shot some 100 yards away would feel a little bit peckish?

It just beggar's belief.

Were the electrical boxes for the elevators in the basement?

(emphasis added by Thomas Graves)

______________________________________________________________

Good question, Lee. Unfortunately I don't know. Hopefully, one of our better-informed members will address your question.

It's interesting to me that LHO was one of only three people in the TSBD that, according to this thread, didn't watch the motorcade (the others being Jack Dougherty and "a lady working in a north-east office of on a mid-level floor"). IMO, it raises these questions: Was he the assassin, an assassin, an accomplice, a patsy, an agent attempting to prevent the assassination, someone who thought he was an agent whose mission was preventing the assassination (i.e. a patsy), or was he just too hungry and/or disinterested in JFK's visit to Dallas to watch it? Were the remains of his lunch ever found? Could his not watching a presidential motorcade passing by his place of work be explained by his psychological profile? Just wondering...

--Thomas

Edited May 26, 2010 by Thomas Graves

[Tony Austin]

Thomas,

Don't forget Troy Eugene West who worked as a mail wrapper on the first floor. He never left his work area throughout his normal working day. He would even eat his lunch close to his wrapping machine. Just because the President of the United States was going past the book depository in his motorcade that day he did not see any reason why he should change his routine. He was at usual place of work on the first floor at the time of the assassination and he did not see anybody until the police arrived.

Troy is an interesting character because he never saw Lee Harvey Oswald in the days leading up to the assassination getting the paper that he supposedly used to make a bag for his rifle.

His testimony to the Warren Commission: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rus/m_i_russ/west.htm

Tony

Edited May 26, 2010 by Tony Austin

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas,

Don't forget Troy Eugene West who worked as a mail wrapper on the first floor. He never left his work area throughout his normal working day. He would even eat his lunch close to his wrapping machine. Just because the President of the United States was going past the book depository in his motorcade that day he did not see any reason why he should change his routine. He was at usual place of work on the first floor at the time of the assassination and he did not see anybody until the police arrived.

Troy is an interesting character because he never saw Lee Harvey Oswald in the days leading up to the assassination getting the paper that he supposedly used to make a bag for his rifle.

His testimony to the Warren Commission: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rus/m_i_russ/west.htm

Tony

___________________________________________________________________________

Thanks, Tony.

I wonder if he saw anyone getting or taking that kind of paper, of at least the required length, from his work area in the days leading up to the assassination.

Also, regarding Lee's question, does anyone on the Forum know if the electrical boxes for the elevators were in the basement?

Thanks,

--Thomas

Edited May 26, 2010 by Thomas Graves

[Frankie Vegas]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I was just reading http://www.ctka.net/2008/bugliosi_2_review.html this morning and remembered your list. Hope it helps.

Victoria Adams and her acquaintance Sandra Styles were in the building on the fourth floor looking out the window at the motorcade. After hearing the shots fired, they ran down the stairs.

I think there was also a woman who was on the phone. A secretary. I can't recall her name right now but she testified about the power going out and the phone lines going dead...

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I was just reading http://www.ctka.net/2008/bugliosi_2_review.html this morning and remembered your list. Hope it helps.

Victoria Adams and her acquaintance Sandra Styles were in the building on the fourth floor looking out the window at the motorcade. After hearing the shots fired, they ran down the stairs.

I think there was also a woman who was on the phone. A secretary. I can't recall her name right now but she testified about the power going out and the phone lines going dead...

Geneva Hine, the buildings telephone operator. And she did not say the power went out. Rather, she indicated that the lights on the phone switchboard went out as the motorcade approached, apparently because no one was making or receiving any calls.

[Frankie Vegas]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I was just reading http://www.ctka.net/2008/bugliosi_2_review.html this morning and remembered your list. Hope it helps.

Victoria Adams and her acquaintance Sandra Styles were in the building on the fourth floor looking out the window at the motorcade. After hearing the shots fired, they ran down the stairs.

I think there was also a woman who was on the phone. A secretary. I can't recall her name right now but she testified about the power going out and the phone lines going dead...

Geneva Hine, the buildings telephone operator. And she did not say the power went out. Rather, she indicated that the lights on the phone switchboard went out as the motorcade approached, apparently because no one was making or receiving any calls.

Thanks.

[Neville Gully]

Just curious.

Oswald?

Who else?

--Thomas

Jack Dougherty. Said he wanted to see the president but the crowd was too big.

Jack obviously didn't think to look out of one of the large windows on the fifth floor he says he was on when the motorcade went by, unlike Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman who did watch it from the fifth floor windows. Funnily enough these are three people that Jack didn't see (or hear) on the same floor as himself...

...and they didn't see (or hear) him.

If he was even on the first floor. Jack seems to be geographically challenged. He did not even know Indiana was in the US!

Com on now.....

Indiana is where now?

Mike, Roy Truly trusted Jack D to open the TSBD every morning. He had the keys to the building. He was the first in there each and every day. Don't believe everything you hear, or read, about big & slow Jack Dougherty.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.

Mr. BALL - Where did you go?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.

Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.

Further he does not even seem to know if the shots were before lunch or after.

The guys is clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Maybe ol'JD was hard of hearing and thought Ball said "Did you ever leave the state during the War?"

Perfectly acceptible answer then.

Another employee who claimed to watch the morocade but would have seen almost nothing due to his position was Eiddie Piper.

Frazier's position at the top of the steps gave him a limited view. He did not see the car after it passed the entrance. He claimed it had gone out of sight down the slope of Elm before the first shot rang out.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Neville Gully