The doorway photo

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Hey guys,

You got me!

The pics posted by David J. and Bernice M. [[thanks yall ]] are the clearest i have ever seen of Lovelady's shirt. If that's his shirt then that's his mug.

I am on dial up so there are many things i can't do to make a pic more clear for example.

So now for the last and final time i will put the subject to bed in my mind. Having heard from the likes of John D. and Gary M. and Dean H.

gently nudging me to look again at the evidence, and then seeing the evidence more clearly than ever before i stand corrected.

Thanks guys and girl!

jim

Jim I used to believe it was Oswald in the doorway

Until I read the page in Robert Grodens TKOAP (The page that Bernice posted showing Lovelady wearing the shirt)

That changed my mind

For various reasons, I remain unconvinced that Lovelady is the man in the doorway.

A few reasons:

1. Lovelady testified he was SITTING on the steps.

2. The man in the colored red shirt does not look like Lovelady.

3. The plaid in that photo does not match the plaid produced by Lovelady years later.

4. The baldness and heavy beard of the man in the color photo.

5. The shirt worn by Lovelady in his FBI photo, when asked to wear the same shirt.

Reasons I may be wrong:

1. The man sitting in Fritz's office identified as Lovelady.

2. Lovelady dying a very early death after being "harassed out of Dallas."

Jack

Jack

Not so on points 1-4.

1. Lovelady said he sat on the steps to eat his lunch…

Mr. LOVELADY - That's on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.

Mr. BALL - You ate your lunch on the steps?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Who was with you?

Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me

Mr. BALL - What was that last name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.

Mr. BALL - What is the first name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley.

Mr. BALL - And Stanton's first name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Miss Sarah Stanton.

Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the steps

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Were you there when the President's motorcade went by

Mr. LOVELADY - Right.

But he later indicated that he was standing when the motorcade came by…

Mr. BALL - Where was the direction of the sound?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right there around that concrete little deal on that knoll.

Mr. BALL - That's where it sounded to you?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; to my right. I was standing as you are going down the steps, I was standing on the right, sounded like it was in that area.

Mr. BALL - From the underpass area?

Mr. LOVELADY - Between the underpass and the building right on that knoll.

And…

Mr. BALL - Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the the step, would be here (indicating).

Mr. BALL - You were standing on which step?

Mr. LOVELADY - It would be your top level.

Mr. BALL - The top step you were standing there?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right.

2,3 and 4. The “color photo” is actually a frame from the Martin film after the shooting. Poor copies of the film make the shirt appear redder and of a different plaid, and make Lovelady appear to be balder on top and have a heavier growth of facial hair than he really had. Clear copies of the film show the shirt is the same plaid and that the man is not as bald and has only a 5 o’clock shadow. Groden talks about this in 6 HSCA and presented a comparison of the poor film versus the clear film on page 187 of TKOAP (see above) that shows this.

Todd

Edited June 2, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Don Jeffries]

The figure in the doorway is yet another issue that I feel too many CTers have given ground on, for no good reason. Of course, a conspiracy doesn't hinge on whether or not it was Oswald in the doorway, but I still don't understand the compulsion to definitively state that it was Lovelady.

In my view, serious doubts remain about who that figure was. I still think it very well could have been Oswald.

[Peter McGuire]

The figure in the doorway is yet another issue that I feel too many CTers have given ground on, for no good reason. Of course, a conspiracy doesn't hinge on whether or not it was Oswald in the doorway, but I still don't understand the compulsion to definitively state that it was Lovelady.

In my view, serious doubts remain about who that figure was. I still think it very well could have been Oswald.

Thats right and the same goes for the Umbrella Man. In that I case I certainly to not believe the man the government manufactured to be the person holding the umbrella ( Witt) , nor the silly story for doing so. That doesn't even address Radio Man.

Jamming stuff down our throats again.

[Thomas Graves]

The figure in the doorway is yet another issue that I feel too many CTers have given ground on, for no good reason. Of course, a conspiracy doesn't hinge on whether or not it was Oswald in the doorway, but I still don't understand the compulsion to definitively state that it was Lovelady.

In my view, serious doubts remain about who that figure was. I still think it very well could have been Oswald.

Thats right and the same goes for the Umbrella Man. In that I case I certainly to not believe the man the government manufactured to be the person holding the umbrella ( Witt) , nor the silly story for doing so. That doesn't even address Radio Man.

Jamming stuff down our throats again.

I just figured it out. LHO was standing on the steps and Truly and Officer Baker encountered Lovelady inside the building. (LOL)

--Thomas

Edited June 3, 2010 by Thomas Graves

[Jack White]

The figure in the doorway is yet another issue that I feel too many CTers have given ground on, for no good reason. Of course, a conspiracy doesn't hinge on whether or not it was Oswald in the doorway, but I still don't understand the compulsion to definitively state that it was Lovelady.

In my view, serious doubts remain about who that figure was. I still think it very well could have been Oswald.

My answer is always that the question of the doorwayman in Altgens is UNRESOLVED and IRRELEVANT (unless it is LHO).

Jack

[Jack White]

The figure in the doorway is yet another issue that I feel too many CTers have given ground on, for no good reason. Of course, a conspiracy doesn't hinge on whether or not it was Oswald in the doorway, but I still don't understand the compulsion to definitively state that it was Lovelady.

In my view, serious doubts remain about who that figure was. I still think it very well could have been Oswald.

Lovelady said it was Lovelady

Wesley Buell Frazier said it was Lovelady

William Shelley said it was Lovelady

Sarah Stanton said it was Lovelady

Danny Arce said it was Lovelady

All of the photographic and film evidence confirms that it was Lovelady.

What's the problem?

No problem. If it WAS Lovelady, it is irrelevant.

Jack

[David Josephs]

Interesting statement Jack... "Irrelevent - unless it is LHO....." so, uh, not really irrelevent.

As long as it is not positively identified as Lovelady... and you post "IF it was Lovelady" (my emphasis) it is very relevent that it is positively not Oswald.

If NOT Lovelady it is even more relevent. WHO it is OTHER than Oswald is irrelevent - maybe.

So far I've seen very little that has been "irrelevent" in this case.

Respectfully

DJ

[Jack White]

Interesting statement Jack... "Irrelevent - unless it is LHO....." so, uh, not really irrelevent.

As long as it is not positively identified as Lovelady... and you post "IF it was Lovelady" (my emphasis) it is very relevent that it is positively not Oswald.

If NOT Lovelady it is even more relevent. WHO it is OTHER than Oswald is irrelevent - maybe.

So far I've seen very little that has been "irrelevent" in this case.

Respectfully

DJ

But it is not likely to be LHO, so it is likely irrelevant. If it is someone else, it is irrelevant who it may be.

I am open to proof of who it is, but do not think the Lovelady ID is conclusive. If it IS Lovelady, it makes no

difference.

Jack

[Matthew Lewis]

Personally, I don't think it is Oswald in the pic but I have met others who are convinced it is. I think it would have been more relevant if Oswald had been allowed to go to trial. Depending on the jury, the picture may be enough to give some a reasonable doubt on Oswald's guilt.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Matthew Lewis

[David Andrews]

Delete.

Edited June 4, 2010 by David Andrews