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Rendezvous With Death


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On a Prayer and a Poem - A Storm Coming & Rendezvous With Death

http://jfkcountercoup.wordpress.com/

By William Kelly (Billkelly3@gmail.com)

James Douglas, in a speech at the Dallas Coalition On Political Assassinations (COPA) annual conference in Dallas in November 2009, discussed the concept of plausible deniability, and echoed many of the thoughts from his important and increasingly significant book JFK & the Unspeakable - Why He Died And Why It Matters (2009). (1)

In his talk Douglas mentioned two small but telling incidents about President Kennedy that reflect on his personality and convictions, one a prayer, The Storm Coming, and the other a poem, Rendezvous With Death. [For complete text of speech or to see and hear on Youtube see Note (2).]

In his talk James Douglas said: ...Late at night on the June 5, 1961, plane flight back to Washington from his Vienna meeting with Nikita Khrushchev, a weary President Kennedy wrote down on a slip of paper, as he was about to fall asleep, a favorite saying of his from Abraham Lincoln – really a prayer. Presidential secretary Evelyn Lincoln discovered the slip of paper on the floor. On it she read the words: "I know there is a God – and I see a storm coming. If he has a place for me, I believe that I am ready."

Kennedy loved that prayer. He cited it repeatedly. More important, he made the prayer his own. In his conflicts with Khrushchev, then more profoundly with the CIA and the military, he had seen a storm coming. If God had a place for him, he believed that he was ready.

For at least a decade, JFK's favorite poem had been Rendezvous, a celebration of death. Rendezvous was by Alan Seeger, an American poet killed in World War One. The poem was Seeger's affirmation of his own anticipated death. [For Seeger bio see: (3)]

The refrain of Rendezvous, "I have a rendezvous with Death," articulated John Kennedy's deep sense of his own mortality. Kennedy had experienced a continuous rendezvous with death in anticipation of his actual death: from the deaths of his PT boat crew members, from drifting alone in the dark waters of the Pacific Ocean, from the early deaths of his brother Joe and sister Kathleen, and from the recurring near-death experiences of his almost constant illnesses.

He recited Rendezvous to his wife, Jacqueline, in 1953 on their first night home in Hyannis after their honeymoon. She memorized the poem, and recited it back to him over the years. In the fall of 1963, Jackie taught the words of the poem to their five-year-old daughter, Caroline.

I have thought many times about what then took place in the White House Rose Garden one beautiful fall day.

On the morning of October 5, 1963, President Kennedy met with his National Security Council in the Rose Garden. Caroline suddenly appeared at her father's side. She said she wanted to tell him something. He tried to divert her attention while the meeting continued. Caroline persisted. The president smiled and turned his full attention to his daughter. He told her to go ahead. While the members of the National Security Council sat and watched, Caroline looked into her father's eyes and said:

I have a rendezvous with Death

At some disputed barricade,

When Spring comes back with rustling shade

And apple-blossoms fill the air –

I have a rendezvous with Death

When Spring brings back blue days and fair.

It may be he shall take my hand

And lead me into his dark land

And close my eyes and quench my breath –

It may be I shall pass him still.

I have a rendezvous with Death

On some scarred slope of battered hill,

When Spring comes round again this year

And the first meadow-flowers appear.

God knows 'twere better to be deep

Pillowed in silk and scented down,

Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,

Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,

Where hushed awakenings are dear.

But I've a rendezvous with Death

At midnight in some flaming town,

When Spring trips north again this year,

And I to my pledged word am true,

I shall not fail that rendezvous.

After Caroline said the poem's final word, "rendezvous," Kennedy's national security advisers sat in stunned silence. One of them said later the bond between father and daughter was so deep "it was as if there was 'an inner music' he was trying to teach her."

JFK had heard his own acceptance of death from the lips of his daughter. While surrounded by a National Security Council that opposed his breakthrough to peace, the president once again deepened his pledge not to fail that rendezvous. If God had a place for him, he believed that he was ready.

So how can the why of his murder give us hope?....

The official public record, the White House Diary for October 5, 1962 does not even reflect that that meeting took place, but it most certainly did, and the primary topic of conversation was most certainly Cuba, in particular Clare Booth Luce's critical commentary that appeared in the issue of Life Magazine that was released that day. (4).

The gathering storm that was surely coming was clearly centered around Cuba, but the Cuban Missile Crisis, as it would become known, and take the world to the brink of nuclear destruction, had yet to acquire a name. In the days and weeks that followed however, the President's faith and powers would be tested to the max.(5).

That same day, October 5, 1962, a chart was prepared of reconnaissance targets in Cuba for the CIA's U2s to photograph (6.) after the resumption of flights, as discussed that same day by CIA director John McCone and National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy. (7.)

After the Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis was the second major crisis of the Kennedy administration, and a critical buildup to the June 10, 1963 "Peace Speech" at American University, when Kennedy laid out his plans for a peaceful future for all man, but one that was not to be allowed to happen.

Kennedy met his fate on Friday, November 22, 1963 at 12:30 pm, just after high noon on a Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas street, gunned down by lone sniper, later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald.

There is still marked today a spot on the street where the lives of President John F. Kennedy and Lee Harvey Oswald came together, intersecting at a very specific time and place, and it is only from an examination of their pasts can we come to really understand how and why Dealey Plaza happened.

Of course, if Lee Harvey Oswald was a psychotic madman, a homicidal maniac spree killer who acted without meaning or motive, none of it would make sense, and there would be no connection whatsoever between the two now historic lines that were left in the wake of their lives, other than they coincidently intersected at that time and place.

Was the rendezvous at Dealey Plaza a chance, spontaneous, tragic, coincendental accident of history, or was it planned to happen in advance? Was the President killed by a Texas lunatic, giving his death no meaning or cause, or was he the victim of a conspiracy that makes him a martyr?

End Part 1

NOTES

1) JFK & the Unspeakable – Why He Died And Why It Matters (2009)

2) Complete text of James Douglas' Dallas COPA speech http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

Video of James Douglas' Dallas COPA speech

3) Alen Seeger Bio

Seeger was born in New York to parents from old New England families. Seeger's family lived on Staten Island for ten years of his life before moving to Mexico in 1900. He lived in Mexico at an impressionable age and this had a decisive impact on his poetry At age fourteen he returned to New York for education at the Hackley School in Tarrytown. He then went to Harvard College in 1906. He became one of the editors of Harvard Monthly and contributed verse regularly.

From 1910 to 1912 he lived aimlessly in New York before moving to Paris. He became very fond of Paris and, just after the outbreak of the World War One, he enlisted in the French Foreign Legion. He served in the trenches on the western front and enjoyed the time on sentry duty for quiet contemplation. During the Battle of the Somme he was severely wounded when advancing on the German lines. He died shortly afterwards and was posthumously awarded the Croix de Guerre and the Medaille Militaire.

Allen Seeger reading his poem Rendezvous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_MYJeme95s

4) Clare Booth Luce on the Cuban Problem Cuba and the Unfaced Truth – Our Global Double Blind. October 5, 1962, p. 53. - v=onepage&q&f=false

5) Cuban Missile Crisis

6) October 5, 1962 Chart of NPIC U2 Reconnaissance Objectives in Cuba

7) Cuban Missle Crisis Memorandum of Discussion With the President's Special Assistant for National Security Affairs (Bundy) on October 5, 1962

Washington, October 5, 1962, 5:15 p.m.

1. McCone reviewed details of the Donovan negotiations, discussions with the President, Attorney General, Eisenhower, the decisions not to approach Congressional leadership, the discussion with Senator Javits, and the final report from Donovan. Bundy expressed general agreement.

2. At the October 4th meeting of the Special Group Mongoose(1) was discussed in some detail as was the meeting with Carter, Lansdale, et al. in DCI's office on that day. McCone stated there was a feeling in CIA and Defense that the "activist policy" which founded the Mongoose operation was gone and that while no specific operational activities had been (refused) the amount of "noise"from minor incidents such as the sugar, the students firing on the Havana Hotel and other matters and the extreme caution expressed by State had led to this conclusion. More importantly, however, the decisions to restrict U-2 flights had placed the United States Intelligence Community in a position where it could not report with assurance the development of offensive capabilities in Cuba. McCone stated he felt it most probable that Soviet-Castro operations would end up with an established offensive capability in Cuba including MRBMs. McCone stated he thought this a probability rather than a mere possibility. Bundy took issue stating that he felt the Soviets would not go that far, that he was satisfied that no offensive capability would be installed in Cuba because of its world-wide effects and therefore seemed relaxed over the fact that the Intelligence Community cannot produce hard information on this important subject. McCone said that Bundy's viewpoint was reflected by many in the Intelligence Community, perhaps a majority, but he just did not agree and furthermore did not think the United States could afford to take such a risk.

3. Bundy then philosophized on Cuba stating that he felt that our policy was not clear, our objectives not determined and therefore our efforts were not productive. He discussed both the Mongoose operations and the Rostow "Track Two".(2) Bundy was not critical of either or of the Lansdale operations. It was obvious that he was not in sympathy with a more active role such as those discussed at 5412 on Thursday

3) as he felt none of them would bring Castro down nor would they particularly enhance U.S. position of world leadership. Bundy seemed inclined to support the Track Two idea and also inclined (though he was not specific) to play down the more active Lansdale operation. Bundy had not talked to Lansdale but obviously had received some of the "static" that is being passed around in Washington. (Before) McCone in reporting on the discussions at Thursday's 5412 meeting repeated the views of the President and expressed by the Attorney General it was agreed that the whole Government policy with reference to Cuba must be resolved promptly as basic to further actions on our part. In general, Bundy's views were that we should either make a judgment that we would have to go in militarily (which seemed to him intolerable) or alternatively we would have to learn to live with Castro, and his Cuba and adjust our policies accordingly…..

Edited by William Kelly
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Hi B. and Barry,

It's still a work in progress, so please ignore the typos and bad links.

I'll try to fix them when I get a chance.

The idea, as Jim Douglas inspired it, is that if Oswald killed JFK for his own

perverted psycho motives, there would be no connection between what he was

doing and what JFK was doing.

But there is.

In addition, since the assassin didn't stalk JFK but JFK came to him,

if there was a conspiracy at the top, it had to direct the motorcade to the

point where JFK was killed.

BK

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AGREED AND ''In addition, since the assassin didn't stalk JFK but JFK came to him,

if there was a conspiracy at the top, it had to direct the motorcade to the

point where JFK was killed.'' IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE BINGO...IMO B THANKS...:ph34r:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8440302925206489846#

Edited by Bernice Moore
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 7 months later...

Reading that poem gave me chills

Thanks for the post Bill

Well, I looked for a good place to post the following, and decided since she was, in addition to being a novelist, a poet......

I am not suggesting Sylvia Plath's death is necessarily sinister, there may have even been a hereditary/genetic issue,

but the Barnhorse thing seems pretty weird.

PS Hope All is Well...Haven't seen you on the Forum lately

Sylvia Plath

Birth: Oct. 27, 1932

Death: Feb. 11, 1963

Author, Poetess. The daughter of Aurelia and Otto Plath, Sylvia's father died when she was eight, a trauma that affected her deeply for the rest of her life and became the subject of one of her best known poems, "Daddy." Sylvia was writing from the time she was very small and had her first poem published when she was eight years old; she had stories and poems being published almost constantly for the rest of her life. An excellent student, Sylvia went to Smith College on a scholarship funded by the author Olive Higgins Prouty. In the summer of 1953, Sylvia worked as a guest editor for "Mademoiselle" magazine. After returning home, she suffered a nervous breakdown and tried to kill herself, ending up in the psychiatric ward of Boston's MacLean Hospital. These events in her life later turned up on Sylvia's only novel, "The Bell Jar." She returned to Smith to finish her degree and then went to Cambridge with a Fulbright scholarship, where she met Ted Hughes. Sylvia and Ted were married in 1956 and had two children, Frieda and Nicholas. In 1962 the marriage fell apart when Sylvia discovered Ted was having an affair, and she moved with the children from their country home in Devon to a flat in London where Yeats had once resided. During the winter of 1962-1963, Sylvia wrote what are considered some of her best and most famous poems, which were published posthumously by Hughes in a collection titled "Ariel." Early in the morning of February 11, 1963, Sylvia sealed her children in their bedroom, turned on the gas in the kitchen, and killed herself. Among her posthumous works are two editions of her journals, some of her letters home to her mother, a collection of short stories ("Johnny Panic and the Bible of Dreams"), and her collected poems. Sylvia gained more fame dead than she ever had when alive, and Ted Hughes was forced to replace her headstone several times over, as vandals (who blamed Hughes for her death) chipped off the surname 'Hughes,' leaving just 'Sylvia Plath.'

biography prepared by Jennifer M.

Parents:

Otto Emile Plath (1885 - 1940)

Aurelia Frances Schober Plath (1906 - 1994)

Children:

Nicholas Farrar Hughes (1962 - 2009)*

Spouse:

Ted Hughes (1930 - 1998)*

*Point here for explanation

Cause of death: Suicide

Inscription:

Sylvia Plath Hughes

1934-1963

Even amidst fierce flames - the golden lotus can be planted

Burial:

St Thomas a Beckett and St Thomas the Apostle Church

Heptonstall

West Yorkshire, England

Sylvia Plath (1932-1963) began publishing poems and stories by the time she entered Smith College in 1950. In 1955 she won a Fulbright Scholar in Cambridge University, where she met writer Ted Hughes, whom she married in 1956. Plath was posthumously awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1982 for her Collected Poems. Her novel, "The Bell Jar," is a classic of American literature. This work chronicles the crackup of Esther Greenwood: brilliant, beautiful, successful -- but slowly going under. Plath takes us with Esther through a month in New York as a contest-winning junior editor on a magazine. Her strained relationships eventually leading her to madness.

Such deep exploration of the psyche is rare in any novel. It points to the fact that "The Bell Jar" is a largely autobiographical work about Plath's own summer of 1953, when she was a guest editor at Mademoiselle and experienced a breakdown.

http://www.salon.com...0/05/plath_bell

Dallas Morning News, The (TX) - May 6, 1999

Deceased Name: Priest, SMU professor Ruth Barnhouse, dies

Psychiatrist was character in Sylvia Plath novel

Dr. Ruth Tiffany Barnhouse, one of the first women to become a priest in the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas, has died.

She was an author, feminist, psychiatrist and professor of pastoral care at Southern Methodist University.

Before her career in Dallas, Dr. Barnhouse was immortalized as a sympathetic doctor in Sylvia Plath's autobiographical novel, The Bell Jar .

Ms. Plath was one of the young doctor's first patients while she was a staff psychiatrist at McLean Hospital near Boston in the early 1950s.

Dr. Barnhouse, 75, died Wednesday at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. Her family asked that the cause of death not be revealed.

Services will be at 1 p.m. Saturday at St. Paul Episcopal Church in Nantucket, Mass., where she had lived after retiring and moving from Dallas

in 1997.

"She touched so many things, so many people," said Maura McNeil, founder of the Women's Center in Dallas.

Dr. Barnhouse moved to Dallas in 1980, becoming professor of psychiatry and pastoral care at Perkins School of Theology at SMU.

In 1985, she and the Rev. Tamara L. Newell were licensed by Dallas church officials to preach, minister the sacraments and conduct the liturgy

of the Episcopal Church. Dr. Barnhouse had been ordained a deacon in 1978 and a priest in 1980 by the Diocese of Massachusetts, but

Dallas bishops had not allowed female priests to practice.

Dr. Barnhouse received her medical degree from Columbia University Medical School and did a psychiatric residency at McLean Hospital.

She went on to earn a master's degree in theology from Weston College School of Theology.

During the 25 years she lived in Boston, Dr. Barnhouse was staff psychiatrist at McLean Hospital and a clinical assistant in psychiatry at Harvard University.

Ms. Plath was Dr. Barnhouse's patient in 1953 and 1954. In The Bell Jar , Dr. Barnhouse was the sympathetic Dr. Nolan.

Ms. Plath also wrote of Dr. Barnhouse as "Dr. B" in her published letters. The poet laureate of the American feminist movement killed herself in 1963.

Before moving to Dallas, Dr. Barnhouse was adjunct professor of pastoral theology at Virginia Theological Seminary in Alexandria, Va. from

1978 to 1980.

During her time in Dallas, Dr. Barnhouse practiced psychiatry for up to 10 hours a week, taught at Perkins and was a liaison with St. Michael

and All Angels Episcopal Church.

Dr. Barnhouse was born near Grenoble, France, where her parents did religious work. Her father, Donald Grey Barnhouse, had a national weekly radio

show on the NBC Blue Network, which originated from his sermons at Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia beginning in 1927.

Dr. Barnhouse is survived by six sons, Chris Beuscher of Boston, Robert Beuscher of Nantucket, William Beuscher of Cambridge, Mass.,

Thomas Beuscher of Houston, John Beuscher of East Hampton, N.Y., and Francis Edmonds III of Weisbaden, Germany; a daughter, Ruth Tiffany

Naylor of Lexington Mass.; two brothers, Donald Barnhouse of Philadelphia and David Barnhouse of Pittsburgh, Pa.; a sister, Dorothy Barnhouse of Bremen, Germany; 11 grandchildren; and two great-grandchildren.

What's in a Name?

February 16, 1956 Dallas Morning News, page 19

Rites Set Thursday for Pair Who Died Only Hours Apart

Double funeral services for Mr and Mrs Frank Barnhouse

of 1422 S. Ewing who died within twelve hours of each

other Tuesday will be held at 2:00 p.m. Thursday at

Trinity Heights Church of Christ, 2200 South Marsalis.

August 10, 1957

3 Texans in Gotham Set Outboard Mark

NEW YORK (Sp.)

Three weary, grimy, Texans in an

outboard motor boat flying Texas and

Confederate flags, arrived at the battery

Friday after a record-breaking 2,630 mile

night-and-day trip from Houston.

Henry Barnhouse, 39, Charles H. Neill,

45, and William Cloud, 50, made the

gruelling trip in 10 days and 21 hours.

The three— mechanical department

employees [linotypers] of an Austin

Newspaper, the "American and Statesman," left

Houston, July 29th. The length of

their run set an unofficial record

for sustained trips in an outboard

boat. The previous record was

set July 21, by two Miami business-

men, who traveled 2,500 miles

from Miami to Chicago

in nine and a half days for their

adventure.

The Texans used a new type

17-foot glastron fiberglass boat

powered by two-35-horsepower

Johnson motors. The craft was

equppied with a radio telephone and

depth-finder.

The boat with a banner saying "Houston

to New York," on its side, came scooting

across the harbor, circled the Statue of

Liberty and nestled up to a float

at Municipal Pier One at 10:08 a.m.

On hand to greet her husband was Mrs.

Frances Barnhouse, wife of the boat's

"captain," and daughter Rose 13, Robert

10, and John 9. Another son, David, 3 1/2,

stayed home with a grandmother in Austin.

November 6, 1960

PHILADELPHIA, PA. (AP)

Dr. Barnhouse Dies

The Rev. Dr. Donald Grey Barnhorse

well known radio Bible teacher, died

Saturday in a hospital here. He was 65.

Dr. Barnhouse traveled all over the

world, teaching the Bible by radio.

He was a minister of a Presbyterian

church here.

PS I would like to know more

about Dr. Donald Grey Barnhorse, especially

his genealogy.

March 24, 2009

Son of Sylvia Plath Commits Suicide

By ANAHAD O'CONNOR

Nicholas Hughes, the son of the poet and novelist Sylvia Plath and the British Poet Laureate Ted Hughes, killed himself at his home in Alaska, nearly a half-century after his mother and stepmother took their own lives, according to a statement from his sister.

Mr. Hughes, 47, was a fisheries biologist who studied stream fish and spent much of his time trekking across Alaska on field studies. Shielded from stories about his mother's suicide until he was a teenager, Mr. Hughes had lived an academic life largely outside the public eye. But friends and family said he had long struggled with depression.

Last Monday, he hanged himself at his home in Alaska, his sister, Frieda Hughes, said over the weekend.

"It is with profound sorrow that I must announce the death of my brother, Nicholas Hughes, who died by his own hand on Monday 16th March 2009 at his home in Alaska," she said in a statement to the Times of London. "He had been battling depression for some time."

Mr. Hughes's early life was darkened by shadows of depression and suicide. Ms. Plath explored the themes in her 1963 novel "The Bell Jar," which follows an ambitious college student who tries to kill herself after suffering a nervous breakdown while interning at a New York City magazine. The novel reflected Ms. Plath's own experiences, including her early struggles with depression and her attempt at suicide while working at Mademoiselle in New York as a college student.

After a stay at a mental institution, Ms. Plath went on to study poetry at Cambridge University, where she met Ted Hughes, who was on his way to world fame as a poet. The two were married in 1956, and had two children — Nicholas and Frieda — but separated in 1962 after Mr. Hughes began an affair with another woman, Assia Wevill. Ms. Plath killed herself at the age of 30 by sticking her head in an oven in her London home on Feb. 11, 1963, as Nicholas and Frieda slept nearby.

Six years later, Ms. Wevill, who had helped raise Nicholas and Frieda after Ms. Plath's death, killed herself and her 4-year-old daughter, Shura. Ms. Wevill styled the murder-suicide in the same manner, using a gas stove.

Mr. Hughes, who became Poet Laureate in 1984 and was widely regarded as one of the greatest poets of his generation, resisted speaking openly about the deaths for many years. But in his last poetic work, "Birthday Letters," published in 1998, he finally broke his silence and explored the theme. He died the same year, as the book — in some ways considered a quest for redemption — was climbing best-seller lists.

Mr. Hughes was said to have protected his children from details about their mother's suicide for many years. But in at least one poem he seemed to indicate that Nicholas, who was only 1 at the time of her death, was pained even as a small child, recalling in one stanza how Nicholas's eyes "Became wet jewels/ The hardest substance of the purest pain/ As I fed him in his high white chair."

Nicholas had a passion for wildlife, particularly fish. As a young adult he studied at the University of Oxford, where he obtained a bachelor of science degree in 1984 and a master of arts degree in 1990. Afterward, he traveled to the United States, earning a doctoral degree from the University of Alaska Fairbanks, where he became an assistant professor at the School of Fisheries and Ocean Science. According to the University, Mr. Hughes was an expert in "stream salmonid ecology" and carried out his research in Alaska and New Zealand. He resigned from the faculty in 2006 but continued his research, the school said.

One graduate student there, Lauren Tuori, recalled a peculiar habit of Mr. Hughes's, saying he would often "seek out a larch tree in a forest of spruce."

She added, "Alaska could use more biologists like Nick who still display wonder at the small things around them."

Correction: An earlier version of this article referred incorrectly to Mr. Hughes as an evolutionary biologist. He was a fisheries biologist.

Edited by Robert Howard
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Allen Seeger reading his poem Rendezvous

Bill: Let me join the chorus of those who thank you for this poignant post. If there is one thing that unites us, it is our admiration for the man himself, and our understanding of the great loss to humanity when JFK was prematurely silenced.

The opinions of David Von Pein are not the most popular here, but the two David's (Lifton & Von Pein) still have one thing in common: They agree that the presidency of JFK was a special time in our history.

David Von Pein has posted on youtube part of Senator Kennedy's person-to person interview with Edward R. Murrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY65kFkJrdw

& so I ask David to post the remainder of that interview, if he has access to it.

It shows JFK, with Jackie by his side, reciting Alan Seeger's great poem.

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The opinions of David Von Pein are not the most popular here....

J Raymond Carroll to David Von Pein:

"Hello David. You may feel like an outlaw here, but IMO you are closer to the truth than most of the members. You are correct in thinking that Lee Oswald acted alone."

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The opinions of David Von Pein are not the most popular here....

J Raymond Carroll to David Von Pein:

"Hello David. You may feel like an outlaw here, but IMO you are closer to the truth than most of the members. You are correct in thinking that Lee Oswald acted alone."

Michael Hogan would not know what truth is if it jumped up and bit him in the posterior!

But fortunately most members of this forum --even David Von Pein -- are SMART ENOUGH to understand that I am saying saying Lee oswald was completely innocent.

I hope I am not violating forum rules when I point out the obvious: Hogan is as dumb as a STICK!

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
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The opinions of David Von Pein are not the most popular here....

J Raymond Carroll to David Von Pein:

"Hello David. You may feel like an outlaw here, but IMO you are closer to the truth than most of the members. You are correct in thinking that Lee Oswald acted alone."

Michael Hogan would not know what truth is if it jumped up and bit him in the posterior!

But fortunately most members of this forum --even David Von Pein -- are SMART ENOUGH to understand that I am saying saying Lee oswald was completely innocent.

I hope I am not violating forum rules when I point out the obvious: Hogan is as dumb as a STICK!

Funny how Carroll feels the need to explain and reinvent what he wrote. He wrote that David Von Pein is closer to the truth than most members.

It's not rocket science.

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Ray, here's a chance for you to explain your unique "Oswald was innocent but I will develop an incomprehensible argument that those who think he didn't shoot JFK are accusing him of something."

Michael quoted your rather curious statement regarding DVP. We'd all love an explanation.

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