In Lee Harvey Oswald's Room

[David Von Pein]

Poe told the WC that he wasn't sure whether he marked the shells or not. That's his OFFICIAL story. If you like Poe's later story about marking them, so be it.

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Guest Tom Scully]

Poe told the WC that he wasn't sure whether he marked the shells or not. That's his OFFICIAL story. If you like Poe's later story about marking them, so be it.

David, I am here doing this because of the inconsistencies in the official version of what happened, and because of the inconsistencies that speak to deficiencies in the integrity of key officials on the WC, in the FBI, the Secret Service, the Dallas PD, and in the Dallas DA's office. I am a skeptic because of the miniscule odds that it really was two LNs converging in the basement of the Dallas PD on 24 November,

flavored with the inconsistencies, and the disqualifying condition of Oswald having no legal representative to conduct discovery, do an independent investigation, evaluate and challenge government evidence, present other evidence and witnesses, and cross-examine the government's witnesses.

Where does your faith in the official version come from? Do you trust the officials? What do you

like best about them? For me, the confidence destroying details are Hoover's annual free vacations at (Crown's son's father-in-law) Myer Schine's Miami Beach hotel. his hands off policy on phone surveillance of Del Webb's casino. his denial of the size an scope of organized crime activity, his vulnerability to not only being blackmailed because of his relationship with Tolson, but the fact that Tolson is the second in command at the FBI; is his rank, merit or performance based? The trips to the West Coast to enjoy the hospitality at Clint Murchison's place and race track don't impress me much either, and Tolson is compromised in all these examples of free taking, (amounts to bribery), as well.

Another aggravation is that Hoover had to know that Del Webb was extremely close to Henry Crown; a problem since James Ragen's accusations that Crown, Hilton, and Annenberg ran the Chicago mob, checked out when the FBI investigated, just before Ragen's murder. In March, 1977, the IRE reporters involved in the Don Bolles murder project laid out many more details of the real estate transaction between the Crown, Webb, and sometimes Hilton partnerships and Zerilli and Goldwater's brother, Robert. The transactions looked like quickly inflated vehicles to transfer money, disguised as legitimate real estate activity.

Ovid Demaris and later the IRE reporters told us how close Crown was to Sam Nanini.

Nanini sent a letter in 1947 to the Federal bureau of prisons to lobby for the release of Louis Campagna.

Drew Pearson told us in 1963 that Tom Clark told him who the prominent men who were household names in Chicago, who actually ran the mob. Pearson' stepson gave us those names, five years after Pearson died.

David, the disturbing details above come to us from at least three independent sources. Author Donald Gibson tells us that Earl Warren proposed the name of Albert Jenner in a WC executive session about December 15, 1963. We know that Jenner's most prominent/important client was Henry Crown. We know Gerald Ford secretly took Jenner's name to Hoover's number 3, Carttha Deloach, and that Ford was a regular, Deloach informant. Author Donald Gibson tells us Warren told the other six Warren commissioners that Tom Clark and Dean Acheson were the two specific named who preapproved Jenner for a WC senior Asst. Counsel appointment.

It is a bit troubling that Pearson in life, and in his posthumous diary tells us that Tom Clark is his source for the Ragen accusation that Crown, Hilton and Annenberg "ran the mob" in Chicago, and that Hoover knew it, too. Ford's leaking WC confidential details to Deloach indicates that Hoover could have investigated Albert Jenner's suitability to investigate whether or not Both Oswald and Ruby were LNs or involved in joined or separate conspiracies.

Now we know, too, that Tom Clark hired two law clerks per Supreme Court term, and in 1956, one of them was Henry Crown's son, John, and in 1959, John was hired to work at Jenner's law firm, became a partner, and worked there until 1969. So we know that Tom Clark, Hoover, and possibly even Earl Warren had plenty of justification to avoid appointing Henry Crown's lawyer to the WC, but did it anyway.

Conrad Hilton was another of only three names Ragen told the FBI were running the mob. Earl Warren's daughter had been so close to Hilton that there was speculation the two would marry.

Virginia Warren, "inexplicably" was at a private reception of Empire State Building directors, their wives, and Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip in 1957, and Earl Warren was known to be an "old friend" of Hilton's.

Albert Jenner was well known for later representing Allen Dorfman and Irwin Weiner. Jenner was not so well known for representing Frank Darling in 1953 in a senate committee investigation of Darling's role as business manager of the huge Chicago electrical workers union local. The inquiry revolved around Darling's decision to be the first health insurance contract customer of inexperienced and unknown "brokers" Paul and Allen Dorfman. The Dorfman's counsel at those hearings was the Pritzker and Teamster Central States pension fund lawyer, Stanford Clinton. When the Pritzkers later went before a licensing hearing of the state of N.J. gaming commission, it was documented that Jenner's firm represented the Teamster pension fund, circa 1960, when the Pritzkers applied for a loan, because Stanford Clinton could not represent both parties in the loan transaction.

It also looks like Allen Dulles withheld Mary Bancroft's name from the FBI and the WC, shielding her as a "confidential friend" without official justification, and the WC and FBI accepted this obstruction. Did I mention the problem of the FBI questioning IB Hale's wife at the Texas State Employment Commission office in Ft. Worth, and only reporting that she met Oswald at her office and later contacted him to send him to Leslie Welding for employment? I find it troubling that Hoover knew she was the wife of ex-FBI agent IB Hale. The Hale's son had been cleared in 1959 of criminality in the shooting deaht of the daughter of one of the two shooting victims in the crime these compromised officials of the FBI and WC were investigating, Gov. John Connally. Additionally, we know now, what Hoover knew since summer, 1962. The Hale's two sons were the subject of an FBI agent's in Los Angeles, surveillance report of the apartment of Johnny Roselli's girlfriend, Judith Exner. Hoover and his top officials, documents now show, obstucted the WC investigation by failing to disclose anything but Virginia Hale's two brief encounters with Oswald.

We also know that Hugh Scott, one of three republican senators pushing the investigation of the awarding of TFX, the largest defense contract in history to Henry Crown's General Dynamics, was "owned" by the third name James Ragen had disclosed to the FBI, Walter Annenberg. Newspapers tell us that, as late as on November, 22, 1963, three weeks after Navy Secretary Fred Korth had been fired for his bank's undisclosed involvement in the TFX award via its exposure to outstanding loans it held on General Dynamics, that Henry Crown was concerned enough to personally lobby on Capital Hill to limit the potential of losing the TFX contract as a result of the inquiry of Sen. Hugh Scott and his fellows.

A 1962 edition of Time Magazine includes an article reporting that General Dynamics had just suffered the largest one year loss amount of any corporation in US history. Newspapers on December 15, 1963, report that the TFX award investigation had been suspended. They did not resume again until 1969.

Oh...and little things like these, keep me at this work, too.:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/fea/life/stories/031206dnlivNSL_oswald.6452346.html

Patricia Puckett Hall remembers Lee Harvey Oswald before the world descended on her grandmother's rooming house

Thursday, March 9, 2006

..Investigators later concluded that Oswald went to his room to fetch his pistol, which he used minutes later to gun down Officer Tippit.

"He did not keep a gun there," Ms. Hall says flatly. "He may have had it at the book depository and taken it with him, but he did not have a gun at our house."

And how does she know this? A sly grin crosses her face.

"My grandmother and that maid were in the room every day. When they did the laundry, they put it away. And they never saw it. I know my grandmother well enough. She knew what everyone had. Not to say that she was a nosy-posy ... but she didn't allow drinking or any of that, and if she found a bottle anywhere, they were out of there. Can you imagine how she would have reacted to finding a gun?"...

..One afternoon, her brothers got into a fight with each other. A big one. Oswald rushed outside to break it up.

"He went down and pulled them apart," says Ms. Hall. "He sat them on the front porch and sat down between them. And he said, 'I want to tell you something: You need to love each other and always take care of each other, and you don't fight each other.' "

And then he said something that Ms. Hall and her family will never forget. With the boys at rapt attention, he said, "And don't ever do anything ... that would harm another human being."

Ms. Hall gets a chill just remembering those words....

Yeah, it's hearsay, not admissible in a criminal court. However, David, with the low bar you've set and for all the reasons I've posted above, the recollections of Gladys Johnson's grand daughter are as weighty as say... the provenance of the evidence chain of CE 399, or the entire body of the Tippit ballistics evidence and statements of police and witnesses at the scene of his shooting.

Crown, Warren, Hoover, Tom Clark, Dulles, Ford, Jenner, and the top men in the FBI "stink" when it comes to their ignored and undisclosed conflicts. obstructions, and ethics lapses. What level of self promotion did it take for Harry Holmes self contained tale of mailing a "bundle" of 1953 holiday cards with no stamps affixed to them, did it take to make his silly story into an article distributed via a national newswire service? Is this espisode a sign he was an absent minded idiot, or a guy with a deep need for attention?

In the face of all I've described, and it is but a brief outline that does not delve into the

proximity of Henry Crown's crony, Patrick Hoy, to lifelong friends of Jack Ruby, or the curious

relationship between Hoy and the family who leased the weekend white house in Middleburg, VA to JFK, here you are, David. Have you read the July, 1961, article quoting outdoing Secret Service Chief, Baughman, four years after the arrests at Joe Barbara's farm in Apalachin, NY? Baughman stated that their was no interstate organized crime syndicate.

The truth, David, is that you work at telling us that, in spite of all the anamolies I've just posted about, and plenty more that could be added....that everything is just the way the WC report and Mr. Hoover said it was.

Gary Mack gets paid to do that....why would anybody work at doing that, for nothing? The men behind the WC report were too flawed to take seriously, especially when it comes to their determination that Jack Ruby, too, was an LN. What are the odds that such flawed men would conduct a near flawless investigation and produce a reliable report about the two murders?

Edited August 19, 2010 by Tom Scully

[David Von Pein]

Where does your faith in the official version come from?

The evidence. Where else?

Gary Mack gets paid to do that.

No, he doesn't. He gets paid to be curator of the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. And he's not an "LNer" either. You just want to believe in the silly myth about him.

Why would anybody work at doing that, for nothing?

How do you know I do my "LN" work for nothing? Maybe I rake in millions from Langley for doing it.

The men behind the WC report were too flawed to take seriously, especially when it comes to their determination that Jack Ruby, too, was an LN. What are the odds that such flawed men would conduct a near flawless investigation and produce a reliable report about the two murders?

Simple. They followed the evidence where it led them....and (just as important!) they didn't treat unfounded rumors and speculation as FACT.

All conspiracy theorists could learn some good habits from the Warren Commission.

Plus, I noticed you didn't mention the fact that the HSCA came to the same exact conclusions about OSWALD'S GUILT. (Yes, they said there was a conspiracy, but I think we all know that that 11th-hour conclusion was rushed and ultimately totally flawed.)

Now, since we know that the HSCA's last-hour "conspiracy" conclusion was pure bunk (being based, as it was, on the flawed Dictabelt analysis), what are the odds that BOTH the Warren boys AND the HSCA would (or could) arrive at the exact same basic conclusion re: JFK's death? With that conclusion being: Lee Harvey Oswald did it and no other gunmen hit any victims with any bullets.

I'm continually amazed by the enormous amount of willful and stubborn ignorance of the Anybody But Oswald crowd -- they not only sweep the Warren Commission's perfectly accurate conclusion about Oswald's guilt under the rug....but they ALSO sweep the same conclusion of the HSCA under the carpet too.

It's just not logical to do that, Mr. Scully. It's just not.

Regards,

David R. Von Pein

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

I don't care if Poe marked the shells or not. Oswald's guilt is proven with THE OTHER TWO SHELLS that you, Jim D., will totally ignore forever and a day.

Keep pretending that all of the evidence is fake, Jim. It's the only silly hope you've got in your desire to exonerate your best friend named Lee. (Or is it "Harvey"? Better go ask another top pal of yours--a nut named Armstrong.)

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Michael Hogan]

....Simple. They followed the evidence where it led them....and (just as important!) they didn't treat unfounded rumors and speculation as FACT.

All conspiracy theorists could learn some good habits from the Warren Commission.

David would do well to substitute the word Americans for the words conspiracy theorists.

"There's just no convincing some people. Nearly one in five people —18% — wrongly believe President Barack Obama is a Muslim, according to a poll released on Thursday."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/08/19/2010-08-19_one_in_five_americans_believe_president_barack_obama_is_a_muslim_poll.html#ixzz0x3YRtCMl

That's about the same percentage of voters that believed (in 2003) the Warren Commission's determination that a lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, committed the crime.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=21798

[William Kelly]

....Simple. They followed the evidence where it led them....and (just as important!) they didn't treat unfounded rumors and speculation as FACT.

All conspiracy theorists could learn some good habits from the Warren Commission.

David would do well to substitute the word Americans for the words conspiracy theorists.

"There's just no convincing some people. Nearly one in five people —18% — wrongly believe President Barack Obama is a Muslim, according to a poll released on Thursday."

http://www.nydailyne...l#ixzz0x3YRtCMl

That's about the same percentage of voters that believed (in 2003) the Warren Commission's determination that a lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, committed the crime.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=21798

So DVP wants to follow the evidence where ever it leads - but he doesn't want to follow the shell Poe signed that was found at the Tippit site, or the shells found at the Sniper's Nest,

that were traced to a batch sold to the USMC?

If they don't lead to Oswald, no sense in following the evidence that leads to other suspects.

And I wonder if it is the same 18% of the people who believe the Warren Report are the same ones who believe Obama is a Muslim?

BK

[Dean Hagerman]

I don't care if Poe marked the shells or not

Spoken like a true LNer

Evidence vanishes off the face of the earth and DVD simply dismisses it with an "I don't care"

[David Von Pein]

You place great faith in the observations of Earlene Roberts. So do you agree that Earlene Roberts saw DPD Patrol Car 207 stop outside 1026 Beckley and honk its horn? If so, what do you think the car was doing there, Dave?

I think the key point re: Roberts' horn-honking incident (which is the key to knowing any such Nov. 22 incident is NOT conspiratorial in nature, if in fact such a horn-honking incident took place on 11/22) is the fact that Earlene Roberts testified that such horn-honking incidents had occurred multiple times PRIOR to Assassination Day.

Shouldn't that little PRE-Nov. 22 fact mean anything to any CTers?

Or do the CTers think that the plot to frame Oswald was so detailed and intricate and perfect that the plotters made sure they tooted their horns outside the roominghouse at 1026 North Beckley Avenue on days BEFORE November 22nd....just so that it would seem like a NORMAL occurrence when the conspirators showed up at that same location on Assassination Day to play some role in Oswald's getaway (or whatever)?

And btw, I don't place very much faith in Earlene Roberts' timeline of how long Oswald stayed inside his shoebox of a room on 11/22. No way he was in that room for 3 to 4 minutes [see thread-starting post in this thread or go HERE.]

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

So, you like to take bits of her testimony because it meets your requirements but you don't believe her on others. I've heard some LN's point blank call her a xxxx, Dave. You don't subscribe to the view that she's a xxxx?

She might very well have been lying about the horn-honking episode on Nov. 22. Because the odds are that such an incident probably didn't occur at the precise time she said it did that day (when Oswald WAS INSIDE HIS ROOM -- which narrows the timeline considerably, esp. when we consider the fact that it's highly unlikely that LHO was inside that room for more than 30 to 60 seconds that day; so the cop car would have had to pick that EXACT MINUTE to honk the horn; highly unlikely occurrence).

And Roberts is almost certainly wrong about the "3 to 4 minutes" timing. Even she herself contradicted her "3-4 minute" timeline when she said to the WC that Oswald was in his room "just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on" [6 H 440].

Now, how many people think it takes "3 to 4 minutes" to go into a crackerbox-sized room and put on a coat and come out again? 3 minutes? Pffft. Ridic.

Do you believe that Helen Markham saw Oswald shoot J.D. Tippit?

Yes. Of course she saw Oswald kill Tippit. (Obligatory "Duh!" required here.)

And, of course, the same "Was She Lying?" standard should be applied by CTers to Helen Markham -- i.e., the CTers love her for her "1:06" timeline for the Tippit shooting; but they think she's dead wrong (or lying) when she positively IDed the CTers' favorite patsy as the murderer of Officer Tippit.

Not all witnesses are 100% right about EVERYTHING. Everybody knows this. People are human. And humans make lots of mistakes. And one thing people are usually very bad at doing is reconstructing perfect timelines....which is why the witness statements are all over the map for several "timing" aspects of the JFK/Tippit case. Like Markham, for example, who told the FBI that the shooting had occurred "around 1:30", but she then tells the WC it was likely at 1:06 or 1:07. So, grain of salt required.

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

But like Earlene Roberts, if she stated something to support your "conclusions" then she was spot-on, but on other things that don't support your conclusions then she dead-wrong because of the fallibility of the human mind.

What a load of horse dung. This is pot & kettle talk at its finest.

You ABO CTers have made it a lifetime goal to exonerate a double-murderer named Oswald, and you don't care how many people you have to call liars to do it.

Take the 12 or so Tippit witnesses, for example. You think they ALL identified the wrong man. All of 'em. I guess the whole state of Texas was out to frame your hapless patsy, huh?

Edited August 19, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Guest Tom Scully]

...So DVP wants to follow the evidence where ever it leads - but he doesn't want to follow the shell Poe signed that was found at the Tippit site, or the shells found at the Sniper's Nest,

that were traced to a batch sold to the USMC?

If they don't lead to Oswald, no sense in following the evidence that leads to other suspects.

And I wonder if it is the same 18% of the people who believe the Warren Report are the same ones who believe Obama is a Muslim?

BK

Bill, where do you think Keith Wheeler. author of this 1965 article came up with this version of the ammunition origins? The best I can figure is that the Scandanavia country was Finland. If it is true, it makes the large USMC ammo order less suspicious. I have never seen this version anywhere else, have you?

Cursed gun, the track of C2766 - Aug 27, 1965 - Google Books Result

LIFE - Vol. 59, No. 9 - 96 pages - Magazine

The bullets had been made to supply US allies in Scandinavia at a time when they were contemplating equipping their forces with the Mannlicher-Car- canos. ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=WFMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=life+magazine+mannlicher+scandinavian&source=bl&ots=pgl4L_4cgz&sig=xrZTAv1yuFkcm3qI8i-vyhPhPgc&hl=en&ei=iLRtTJaNCoP-8AbAxuW4DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

DVP, almost none of the troublimg particulars I shared with you in my last post, related to the reputations and backgrounds of Hoover, Warren, et al, were publicly available until the work of Ovid Demaris was publshed in the late 60's, Drew Peason Diaries in 1974, the IRE reporters newspaper series in 1977, and the New Jersey Gaming licensing hearings in the 80's and Google Books content in the 00's. Were you aware, for example. that Jenner represented Frank Darling in 1953, or evaluated the Pritzker's Las Vegas Hotel loan application on behalf of his firm's client, the Teamster Central States Pension Fund, all before 1963? Who knew that Tom Clark advised Pearson that Henry Crown "ran the mob", and then Clark hired Crown's son, ten years later, or that this son worked in Jenner's lawfirm? Does it matter that Earl Warren hired Paul Ziffren's son as his law clerk in 1965, after Knowland had exposed Ziffren's ties to the wife of an executed Capone-Humphreys associate, but before Ovid Demaris exposed Ziffren and his Alien Property Custodian, friend, a former law partner of Ziffren and Arvey, David Bazelon. Bazelon's obit says he was a protege of Hoover. In 1962, Bazelon became the chief judge of the DC appeals court.

You say the evidence is what influences your resolve. Did the evidence get there all by itself, and who picked the WC staff, wrote the report, chose the witnesses, and made the conclusion written in the report? Since Oswald was the accused with no legal advocate and the WC and FBI principals were not trustworthy, per my descriptions in this post and in my last post, what is it that you can put such resolute faith in? Doesn't the record convince you that Hoover pronounced both Oswald and Ruby as LNs before the WC convened, and that Dulles brought copies of a book erroneously reinforcing that notion, to the very first WC executive session?

Since our criminal justice system requires the prosecution to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, and the accused is not compelled to even make any argument of his innocence to the court, how are you able to consider your conclusions to be reaonable, but my skepticism and the even better skeptical arguments of our fellow forum members, not to be reasonable? Why do you think the police work and the substitution for prosecutorial work in JFK murder case to be so

unlike the accepted practices at work in any criminal trial? Couldn't the WC have chosen to remove reasonable doubt by trying Oswald, in absentia. represented by appointed counsel? Did the work of the FBI and WC effect a fair substitution for a criminal trial where the prosecution sets out to prove its case, beyond a reasonable doubt?

Consider how much lower than that routine standard of procedure and proof you are such a strong advocate of, in this case, which also happens to be a case of murder of a sitting American president.

The ridiculousness of Albert Jenner assigned to investigate and to determine whether or not the murder of Oswald by Ruby was related to a conspiracy, or not, is not all that different than if Ruby was assigned that task himself, by the WC, assuming he could have made bail.

A variation on the question you did not answer; which of the Warren Commissioners, Counsel, assistant Counsels, or in the FBI hierarchy in December, 1963, are you most impressed with, as far as reputation and integrity? With the faith in their WC report that you project, there must be someone of those men who inspired your unwavering confidence?

Edited August 19, 2010 by Tom Scully

[Michael Hogan]

Not all witnesses are 100% right about EVERYTHING. Everybody knows this. People are human. And humans make lots of mistakes. And one thing people are usually very bad at doing is reconstructing perfect timelines....

A convenient, but ineffective way to explain things. Everybody knows that witnesses are not created equal.

Some are more perceptive than others. Some pay more attention than others. Some are smarter than others.

Some remember more than others. Some are more honest than others. Some make fewer mistakes than others.

[Guest Tom Scully]

This is so ridiculous.

Markham is OK about that time since it largely based upon her daily routine.

About the actual events of the shooting, its pretty clear that she went hysterical and the DPD then manipulated her.

I mean talking to Tippit? When he was dead almost instantly. Only John McAdams could buy something like that or make up something to create excuses for it. (Which he did in our debate--and which DVP tries to actually hold out as credible.)

Because of that, the WC staff lawyers did not wan to sue her. For example, Liebeler and Ball.

And DVP can try and obfuscate the time problem as much as he wants. It won't go away.

Or the fact that the last time Roberts saw him he was at a bus stop! Waiting for a bus going the wrong way from the murder scene.

Jim, circumstantial "evidence" seems to trump common sense, according to DVP and FC, except, I guess, when they decide that it doesn't.

Here is the WC senior assistant counsel assigned to investigate the angle of conspiracy in either the JFK or the Oswald murder. The assistant counsel is Albert E. Jenner, Jr., and he is boasting to the press about his long and close relationship with Lester Crown. Since 1950, Lester has been married to Renee Schine, sister of G. David Schine.:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60F15F93F55117A93C0A8178DD85F408585F9&scp=4&sq=J.%20Myer%20Schine%20henry&st=cse

COHN THREATENS TO 'GET' SENATOR FOR GIBE AT SCHINE; Assails ... 16 at a breakfast at the New York apartment of the young man s parents, Afar. and Nfrs. J. Meyer Schine. Secretary Stevens had said that Senatdr McCarthy ...

COHN THREATENS TO 'GET' SENATOR FOR GIBE AT SCHINE; Assails Jackson in Exchange With Kennedy, Whom He Challenges to Fight

By W. H. LAWRENCE

June 12, 1954, Saturday

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/12/07/magazine/the-ordeal-of-lester-crown.html

THE ORDEAL OF LESTER CROWN - Free Preview - The New York Times

New York Times - Dec 7, 1986

...The family turned to Albert E. Jenner Jr., a lawyer and longtime friend who is on the board of General Dynamics. ''Whenever the kids got into trouble,'' Jenner says, ''they never bothered the old man. They talked to me, and I got them out of trouble.'' In return for his cooperation with the grand jury, Lester Crown was granted immunity from prosecution....

Everything that did not fit was excluded. In routine and thorough homocide investigation, Jenner himself would have been a person of interest to the investigation, and certainly his client, Lester, and his father, Henry Crown would have been "of interest." In the extra special Hoover-WC world, the Crown's lawyer is appointed to spearhead the investigation.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Tom Scully

[David Von Pein]

The last time Roberts saw him he was at a bus stop! Waiting for a bus going the wrong way from the murder scene.

Earlene Roberts didn't say she stood there and watched Oswald "waiting" at the bus stop. He might have paused for a second or two (or maybe not even that). You're overstating what Mrs. Roberts said.

1964 Interviews With Earlene Roberts

[David Von Pein]

Jim D. doesn't think it's at all strange that Earlene Roberts testified that a police car would occasionally stop in front of 1026 Beckley and honk its horn on days PRIOR TO NOV. 22.

And Roberts said the "tip-tip" of the horn was the same kind of "tip-tip" horn-honking that Alexander & Burnley would do:

Mrs. ROBERTS -- "It stopped directly in front of my house and it just "tip-tip" and that's the way Officer Alexander and Charles Burnley would do when they stopped, and I went to the door and looked and saw it wasn't their number."

I didn't distort anything. I said that the same kind of HORN-HONKING INCIDENTS, per Roberts, occurred on days when no Presidential assassinations were taking place in Dallas.

DiEugenio, naturally, thinks the 11/22 horn-honking HAD to be conspiratorial in nature. No other explanation is to be accepted...or even considered. Right, Jimbo?

Edited August 20, 2010 by David Von Pein